Solskjaer's legacy and his future

[passtheball]

If the board appoints someone manager then it's normal to support them. There was obviously romanticism and the sense of hope that came after the dark end days of Jose's reign. Everyone knew he wasn't an elite manager by any stretch, but after a great start, hoped he could become one. The other posters were arguing that people had Ole down as a great manager, which I don't think was the case. They just wanted him to succeed as fans of Ole and the club- I don't think that's too hard to understand, even if any any dispassionate analysis would tell you he shouldn't have been appointed full-time and then not retained as long as he was.

What about:
1. Supporting him to the bitter end and tying themselves in knots by scapegoating players (the latest of which was Ronaldo)?
2. The ironic use of the phrase "patterns of play" to prop up Ole against other (genuinely great) managers?
3. Creating threads that hunted and listed posters criticising Ole (like Wumminator after the West Ham game)?

"As fans of Ole and the club" often became "fans of Ole before fans of United." Perhaps we are just focusing on different posters, but it is undeniable that there was a vocal group who wanted to shut down all criticism.

 

[Jippy]

What about:
1. Supporting him to the bitter end and tying themselves in knots by scapegoating players (the latest of which was Ronaldo)?
2. The ironic use of the phrase "patterns of play" to prop up Ole against other (genuinely great) managers?
3. Creating threads that hunted and listed posters criticising Ole (like Wumminator after the West Ham game)?

"As fans of Ole and the club" often became "fans of Ole before fans of United." Perhaps we are just focusing on different posters, but it is undeniable that there was a vocal group who wanted to shut down all criticism.

You can argue both ways- the fans supporting Ole when it was clear we needed a change and those actually celebrating us losing to Liverpool. Each to their own I guess.

I clearly haven't read enough of the endless Ole threads to know what you mean about the 'patterns of play' stuff.

Wumminater was just highlighted kneejerk posts.

Maybe some did want to shut down criticism, which was never allowed on the forum. What many simply took exception to was the vitriol at times and some people starting to slag Ole's playing legacy off, even his bloody goal in '99.

One of the main things that's been irking over recent weeks is people not tolerating other fans' approach to supporting the club- it was very divisive on both sides. But anyway, new manager and we move onward and upward hopefully.

 

[Max_United]

You can argue both ways- the fans supporting Ole when it was clear we needed a change and those actually celebrating us losing to Liverpool. Each to their own I guess.

I clearly haven't read enough of the endless Ole threads to know what you mean about the 'patterns of play' stuff.

Wumminater was just highlighted kneejerk posts.

Maybe some did want to shut down criticism, which was never allowed on the forum. What many simply took exception to was the vitriol at times and some people starting to slag Ole's playing legacy off, even his bloody goal in '99.

One of the main things that's been irking over recent weeks is people not tolerating other fans' approach to supporting the club- it was very divisive on both sides. But anyway, new manager and we move onward and upward hopefully.

No doubt there is some intolerance and harsh words from both sides, but concretely in this thread over the last few pages those who have a more positive view in Ole reign called those who are more critical of him "irritable bugs" and "pricks". There were no comparable insults from the other side, but overwhelmingly posts with concrete argumentation.

 

[Bebestation]

Seriously daft post by him, just embarassing. I can understand those that deeply love Ole and are troubles by the past few months, but posts like that or @devips suggesting those that criticise him hate him, it is just really daft.

I mean sure it's daft. But your ultimately talking in a thread that talks about Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's Legacy not his time as a manager.

You don't rate him that highly. Good for you, you also support Ajax so you may a higher quantity of Legends to pick and choose from playing at all their clubs. I've heard plenty of people talking about how they hated Ole during his last months of managers -

Just some of us have the ability to realise that even if he was a shit manager, the fact that he was chosen to be one for so long wasn't really his fault. He tried his best with the clubs interest at hand and instead of causing toxicity for winning shit that means shit all to even clubs like Arsenal and Sevilla.

To many of us he left us in a better state than we were - some don't want to see it; acting like bloody Lindelof and Bailly are better defenders than varane and Maguire, Mkhitarayan is bossing it like Bruno, Lukaku is better than Ronaldo and Cavani, Dalot is better than Wan Bissaka, making players like Fred better, Shaw better instead of destroying his confidence.

Ole's legacy didn't change for me, if it did for you, then good for you. Bloody Juventus should shoot down Pirlo and let's see if Xavi tends to be useful so all their legacies get destroyed aswell.

Our fans have always been cold at every opportunity, even after Ole has gone. It's just how they show their mindset of craving success - to be cold. It's something thats always to me, been one of the worst shit of the club.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Hopefully, but it seems it won't rid the forum of hyperbole.

Nah, it’s true.

With the context of where the club was when Fergie retired, to where it is now - it’s on its knees.

City and Liverpool contend for every major honour while Utd is now literally a joke within the football world.

And it’s been brought on by decisions that the club has made itself, and through a culture of cronyism.

You might not like it, but it’s true.

If Solskjaer’s sorry run as manager ends that, then it’s a fine legacy - albeit an ironic one.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Nah, it’s true.

With the context of where the club was when Fergie retired, to where it is now - it’s on its knees.

City and Liverpool contend for every major honour while Utd is now literally a joke within the football world.

And it’s been brought on by decisions that the club has made itself, and through a culture of cronyism.

You might not like it, but it’s true.

If Solskjaer’s sorry run as manager ends that, then it’s a fine legacy - albeit an ironic one.

100% spot on. Sadly Ole became part of the problem rather than the solution. He lacked the capacity to see his own short comings or to know when to leave on his own terms.

 

[SportingCP96]

Ole and Mourinhos tenure seem almost identical yet are viewed differently.

Highlights : fluky second place finishes, in which results papered over shit performances (17/18 and 20/21)

Lowlight : leave us midtable, with the teams confidence shattered (8th Mourinho and 10th for Ole)

World record signings who are a bit problematic in terms of style (Pogba for Mourinho, Maguire for Ole)

Expensive players who they have no real intention to use (Fred for Mourinho, DVB for Ole)

Ya well Mou won you some trophies.

Ole was awful it has to be said. Had he not been someone with so much respect at United he would have been sacked forever ago.

 

[Manny]

Now that Ole is finally 'out', twisting facts to suggest no tangible progress was achieved during his tenure here has become quite the trendy thing to do - the pricks!

The new one I've seen in a few places now is that Ole was sacked with us in 10th.

It'll keep being parroted and people will eventually take it as fact.

 

[Max_United]

The new one I've seen in a few places now is that Ole was sacked with us in 10th.

It'll keep being parroted and people will eventually take it as fact.

Yes, not fair. Although the fact that he was sacked when we were 8th, worse than we were under Jose when he was in full meltdown and lost the dressing room (6th and more points) is really damning.

 

[shamans]

Absolutely. And it pretty much echoes what I feel as well and tried to state in my reply to nimble but I couldn't express it as succinctly. He did a lot of very good things and his first two seasons were an undoubted success for me. The issue was that he had to deal with the shit show above him who consistently failed him until this summer, ironically enough (though they still couldn't resist that Ronaldo signing which ultimately sabotaged him).

I sincerely hope that Rangnick can be that disrupter that our board desperately needs, but the fact he's here shows that Ole did a good job. Cast your mind back to 2018 and the club was a toxic mess. Managers were actively avoiding the job because it objectively was seen as a poisoned chalice. Ole upended all of that to the extent that Poch was willing to quit his current job to come here. The back office systems that were nonexistent are here now, because of him driving that process. He had the balls to do a clearout when none of his predecessors bothered.

All of this was done, before we even talk about the league finishes which allowed us to get the genuine world class players we got this summer, but if you read this thread, you'd think we were having consecutive 8th placed finishes and going nowhere as a club.

I'm glad that 90% of the posters here are unlikely to ever see Old Trafford let alone go to a game. The supporters, who you know, support the club, know and appreciate the job he did and as far as I'm concerned, that's fine by me. I'll be taking my usual seat later today and I'll be belting out the Ole songs loud and proud, just as I did when I was at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.

The naysayers who seem incapable of grasping that concept of support will never get what it means to be supporter rather than a consumer, but I suppose that's the way it's trending for most big clubs...

When I went to OT this season at the Stretford end pretty much everyone was ole out and couldn't believe we've wasted so much time on him.

Then there are other posters on here who regularly go to games and have him as our worst coach since SAF.

Also, I'm glad it's a minority of match going supporters who have this ridiculous belief that they are the only ones supporting the team. United is a global club and I assure you the worldwide fans matter way more in context then locals.

 

[shamans]

The new one I've seen in a few places now is that Ole was sacked with us in 10th.

It'll keep being parroted and people will eventually take it as fact.

What position were we when ole was sacked and what position were we when Jose was sacked ?

And what progress we literally won trophies with Jose. We have a bloated squad full of talent where not all can fit in. This was a 3 year disaster.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Nah, it’s true.

With the context of where the club was when Fergie retired, to where it is now - it’s on its knees.

City and Liverpool contend for every major honour while Utd is now literally a joke within the football world.

And it’s been brought on by decisions that the club has made itself, and through a culture of cronyism.

You might not like it, but it’s true.

If Solskjaer’s sorry run as manager ends that, then it’s a fine legacy - albeit an ironic one.

Where was the cronyism in the appointments of LVG and Mourinho, or the idea that Giggs would be groomed to take over from LVG then dumped? Sure we can look back and say Ole was a mistake but I think everyone got a bit caught up in how he turned things around at the time.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Absolutely. And it pretty much echoes what I feel as well and tried to state in my reply to nimble but I couldn't express it as succinctly. He did a lot of very good things and his first two seasons were an undoubted success for me. The issue was that he had to deal with the shit show above him who consistently failed him until this summer, ironically enough (though they still couldn't resist that Ronaldo signing which ultimately sabotaged him).

I sincerely hope that Rangnick can be that disrupter that our board desperately needs, but the fact he's here shows that Ole did a good job. Cast your mind back to 2018 and the club was a toxic mess. Managers were actively avoiding the job because it objectively was seen as a poisoned chalice. Ole upended all of that to the extent that Poch was willing to quit his current job to come here. The back office systems that were nonexistent are here now, because of him driving that process. He had the balls to do a clearout when none of his predecessors bothered.

All of this was done, before we even talk about the league finishes which allowed us to get the genuine world class players we got this summer, but if you read this thread, you'd think we were having consecutive 8th placed finishes and going nowhere as a club.

I'm glad that 90% of the posters here are unlikely to ever see Old Trafford let alone go to a game. The supporters, who you know, support the club, know and appreciate the job he did and as far as I'm concerned, that's fine by me. I'll be taking my usual seat later today and I'll be belting out the Ole songs loud and proud, just as I did when I was at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.

The naysayers who seem incapable of grasping that concept of support will never get what it means to be supporter rather than a consumer, but I suppose that's the way it's trending for most big clubs...

you’re persistent I’ll give you that…
I’m curious though, was the 140 million net spend in the 2019/2020 season not good enough? How much money do you expect us to spend man?

Out of curiosity, who were these managers actively avoiding the job? I don’t really get it. Mourinho got given a new contract the summer he left indicating there were no plans to replace him. We immediately installed Ole as interim. We then gave him the new long term deal after PSG because of his good start. So where along those lines where we trying to and interviewing a string of managers who were rejecting us? Doesn’t add up to me.

I go to games…. I’ll say that before I say the rest. But those who go to games don’t necessarily have a better grasp of football than those who don’t. And there’s numerous match goers on here who prove that.

This has been drummed on here a lot but a lot of fans are ‘United above all else’ what is best for United is their number one aim. Not things like ‘backing the manager no matter what’ or ‘I go to games you dont’ point scoring.
The division was largely caused because so many people knew Ole was never going to be a successful United manager and they based this on their knowledge of football.
How can you expect people to be fully behind something they don’t believe and have no faith in?

I think this is what you and a lot of others have completely failed to grasp over the last three years. It’s the same concept as fans never believing McFred will be a highly successful midfield partnership. It doesn’t mean you don’t support the team it just means you put your football knowledge first before tribalism.

I get Ole was a United legend (I own two Solskjaer jerseys) but that doesn’t mean he should have been backed blindly. He was never going to be good enough. I agree that there is now some exaggerating going on about how he did. He didn’t do terribly or bad but bottom line is he didn’t do enough. He got a big opportunity and he didn’t take it.

Measuring how well Ole did in terms of rebuilding is not something that can be done now, despite your attempts to. If we become a successful club again in two to three years then fine but at the moment it’s all conjecture.

 

[Desert Eagle]

The banner will be cringe but oh well it is what it is. At least he's gone now.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

I think Ole wanted the best for the club. I think he did his best and it wasn't good enough. I dont think you blame the person when they do their best therefore I dont think his overall legacy is hugely affected for him trying his best. If there is a banner saying "we still love you" or whatever then yeah a bit twee and not necessary but probably true so fair enough.

Its difficult to hate nice guys and he's undoubtedly a nice guy who came up short. We move on and his legacy will always be the CL final in 99.

 

[Foxbatt]

The banner will be cringe but oh well it is what it is. At least he's gone now.

A bit like the "Chosen One" eh?

 

[AjaxCunian]

I mean sure it's daft. But your ultimately talking in a thread that talks about Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's Legacy not his time as a manager.

You don't rate him that highly. Good for you, you also support Ajax so you may a higher quantity of Legends to pick and choose from playing at all their clubs. I've heard plenty of people talking about how they hated Ole during his last months of managers -

Just some of us have the ability to realise that even if he was a shit manager, the fact that he was chosen to be one for so long wasn't really his fault. He tried his best with the clubs interest at hand and instead of causing toxicity for winning shit that means shit all to even clubs like Arsenal and Sevilla.

To many of us he left us in a better state than we were - some don't want to see it; acting like bloody Lindelof and Bailly are better defenders than varane and Maguire, Mkhitarayan is bossing it like Bruno, Lukaku is better than Ronaldo and Cavani, Dalot is better than Wan Bissaka, making players like Fred better, Shaw better instead of destroying his confidence.

Ole's legacy didn't change for me, if it did for you, then good for you. Bloody Juventus should shoot down Pirlo and let's see if Xavi tends to be useful so all their legacies get destroyed aswell.

Our fans have always been cold at every opportunity, even after Ole has gone. It's just how they show their mindset of craving success - to be cold. It's something thats always to me, been one of the worst shit of the club.

I don't disagree with you, he's a legend by most metrics, and was a wonderful player for us. It would be great to have a player like him in this current squad.

Also as a manager he did a lot of good things during his tenure, but clearly he wasnt good enough.

When I think of this thread, I am mainly looking at what he left behind and not his legendary status. That status would only change for me if it became more than obvious that he was only in it for a final payday (which would be his right), and not had the club's best interest at heart. I think he and the board mutually agreed that the time was up, and he has left in some grace.

When it comes to what he left behind, he has left a team behind that is very poor tactically with no clear brand of football that fails at most of the basics and doesnt get the maximum out of the individuals.

Sure, AWB, Maguire, Sancho, Telles, Donny etc are improvements ability-wise, which is a good thing. But it isnt good enough, they aren't well enough-coached or used or some of them might never be good enough for a new manager. That isn't good at all.

He's left behind no trophies, other than PSG Away x2, Leipzig Home basically no European succes (are individual matches even succes one might argue).

He has barely developed any youth bar Greenwood who might be our biggest youth talent since Giggs, he gets credit for it but does he really get credit for it..

He's also left behind a better squad abilitywise, a better atmosphere at the club, 2 consecutive top 4 finishes on the positive side. It isnt terrible, nor great.

 

[Jippy]

Nah, it’s true.

With the context of where the club was when Fergie retired, to where it is now - it’s on its knees.

City and Liverpool contend for every major honour while Utd is now literally a joke within the football world.

And it’s been brought on by decisions that the club has made itself, and through a culture of cronyism.

You might not like it, but it’s true.

If Solskjaer’s sorry run as manager ends that, then it’s a fine legacy - albeit an ironic one.

'On its knees' suggests the club is struggling like Villa, not just floundering in Arsenal-esque also ran territory after successive (albeit very distant) top three finishes due to sustained mismanagement.

EDIT: I'd also argue general ineptitude is a bigger problem than cronyism, although the latter is an example the former.

 

[Skills]

'On its knees' suggests the club is struggling like Villa, not just floundering in Arsenal-esque also ran territory after successive (albeit very distant) top three finishes due to sustained mismanagement.

There are levels though. To take it down to Aston Villa's level would be an achievement for even someone as incompetent as Solskjaer.

And Arsenal have their own Solskjaer

 

[Jippy]

No doubt there is some intolerance and harsh words from both sides, but concretely in this thread over the last few pages those who have a more positive view in Ole reign called those who are more critical of him "irritable bugs" and "pricks". There were no comparable insults from the other side, but overwhelmingly posts with concrete argumentation.

Maybe not the last couple of pages but there's been plenty of insults flung by both sides- I see all the reported posts.

We've had threads attacking matchgoing threads for cheering and posters calling anyone wanting a win a 'negligent fan'.

'Irritable bugs' is quite mild.

 

[justsomebloke]

I think that the arguments were extremely weak but that is besides the point. My point is, how people were happy to continue with him (and calling the others idiots for wanting Ole out), if they really thought that Ole is not a good manager? Which was the point of the poster I quoted.

If I think that a manager is not good enough (in case of Ole, I thought so for more than 2 years), I want him out ASAP, not prolong it as soon as possible in the hope of some intangible progress happening.

Well, what exactly does it mean to "think that a manager is not good enough"? How do you know? The simple fact is, you don't. You're not in the dressing room, you're not on the training field, you're not privy to how he thinks or what he does, and even if you were, you would not be well qualified to judge. All you have is reputation and the results that are observable on the pitch and in the standings. Reputation as we all know is not necessarily a reliable yardstick, especially not for someone who has not previously been on this level - people who have had great success in the past sometimes fail, new arrivals sometimes turn out well. And as for observable results, you're kidding yourself if you think that it was a widespread view among fans, experts and commentators alike prior to this season that those showed OGS wasn't good enough. On the contrary, the general view was that while there were still question marks that hadn't been answered, there was on the whole good progress and good, if not great, results. No one outside fans on social media were arguing that OGS should be sacked at the beginning of August, and there was a general mood of expectation and optimism.

So to me it frankly seems rather daft to sit in your coach and decide that you think a manager is not good enough, unless there are visible results to show that he isn't (at least in the context of this particular team at this particular time). But of course it's easy - if you take the view that a manager isn't good enough, you are almost invariably proven right sooner or later. Not many managers leave a top club in any other way than by getting sacked.

 

[devips]

Seriously daft post by him, just embarassing. I can understand those that deeply love Ole and are troubles by the past few months, but posts like that or @devips suggesting those that criticise him hate him, it is just really daft.

Again twisting facts here. I have never said Ole can;t be criticized. There are ample legit reasons why his football is open to criticism. But the way for a few months now some people (pricks not fans) want to turn even his genuine achievements into nothing, is shameful.
Give credit where it is due- that;s all I am saying.

 

[NewUser777]

Sorry if this feels like I'm "picking" on you, I'm not. I've been reading the comments on here on the "good" Ole has done during his tenure and for what it's worth I was happy with his appointment to "steady the ship". As a newbie I wrote why I thought he was a good appointment at the time.

However with how things have gone, some or the reports that have been coming out do you really believe your sentence about determination to do his best?

I like Ole the person/player. However as time progressed and progresses I find myself doubting even some of what I said in support of him as manager.

Reports like telling Bailly he was the manager when playing an unfit Maguire, after asking players to speak and openly saying he wasn't involved in training but then saying he was boss doesn't seem like a determination to do your best for me. Of course these are all reports and could be hearsay but his own attitude of going on holiday and sending players on holiday just doesnt come across as doing your best to me. I've watched, read and listened to enough players and managers in my time who have got sacked/sold for not being good enough but their effort can't be faulted.

What I mean by that is that players and coaches when in a rut talk about extra training, back on the field next day, extra work outs. Managers coming out and putting out the cones and going through drills with players, all sorts of attempts to change something and often still not able to change things. That's effort. I simply don't see that in or from Ole based on what he himself has said or done.

Any links to those reports? Reliable ones, not click bait. All I’ve seen is praise. Putting out cones? What the feck do you guys believe professional football is?

 

[Max_United]

Any links to those reports? Reliable ones, not click bait. All I’ve seen is praise. Putting out cones? What the feck do you guys believe professional football is?

It was described in the Athletic article by Whitwell and Crafton.
https://theathletic.com/2969517/202...ster-united-legend?source=user-shared-article

It is under paywal, but here the relevant excrept:

"In the dressing room following that chaotic defeat, where United got it back to 2-2 on 82 minutes only to promptly concede again before their hosts added a late fourth, Solskjaer asked his players: “What’s the problem?”. Their silence in response told a story.

Eventually, Eric Bailly stood up and questioned why fellow centre-back Harry Maguire, with one training session under his belt after missing three weeks with a calf strain, had been picked to play rather than him.

Solskjaer is said to have become defensive, insisting that, as manager, he made the decisions. This caused confusion, given his initial request for feedback. When the manager left the room, Fernandes spoke at length, encouraging his team-mates. Eventually, a couple of them suggested any pretence should end and the real issue addressed. A very senior player is said to have quietly replied to that: “We all know what the problem is.”

 

[NewUser777]

It was described in the Athletic article by Whitwell and Crafton.
https://theathletic.com/2969517/202...ster-united-legend?source=user-shared-article

It is under paywal, but here the relevant excrept:

"In the dressing room following that chaotic defeat, where United got it back to 2-2 on 82 minutes only to promptly concede again before their hosts added a late fourth, Solskjaer asked his players: “What’s the problem?”. Their silence in response told a story.

Eventually, Eric Bailly stood up and questioned why fellow centre-back Harry Maguire, with one training session under his belt after missing three weeks with a calf strain, had been picked to play rather than him.

Solskjaer is said to have become defensive, insisting that, as manager, he made the decisions. This caused confusion, given his initial request for feedback. When the manager left the room, Fernandes spoke at length, encouraging his team-mates. Eventually, a couple of them suggested any pretence should end and the real issue addressed. A very senior player is said to have quietly replied to that: “We all know what the problem is.”

So that is what you base it on? Bailly not beeing happy? Why not balance your view with the support the players and staff have said? There are no doubt we didn’t preform, and why shouldn’t “as to why” being discussed? This thread is so embarrassing I don’t know if it hurts being a fellow fan or to laugh about it. You can’t be serious
This is the same paper saying Ole chose VDB over Grealish mate. We all know Ole didn’t chose VDB over anyone..

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Well, what exactly does it mean to "think that a manager is not good enough"? How do you know? The simple fact is, you don't. You're not in the dressing room, you're not on the training field, you're not privy to how he thinks or what he does, and even if you were, you would not be well qualified to judge. All you have is reputation and the results that are observable on the pitch and in the standings. Reputation as we all know is not necessarily a reliable yardstick, especially not for someone who has not previously been on this level - people who have had great success in the past sometimes fail, new arrivals sometimes turn out well. And as for observable results, you're kidding yourself if you think that it was a widespread view among fans, experts and commentators alike prior to this season that those showed OGS wasn't good enough. On the contrary, the general view was that while there were still question marks that hadn't been answered, there was on the whole good progress and good, if not great, results. No one outside fans on social media were arguing that OGS should be sacked at the beginning of August, and there was a general mood of expectation and optimism.

So to me it frankly seems rather daft to sit in your coach and decide that you think a manager is not good enough, unless there are visible results to show that he isn't (at least in the context of this particular team at this particular time). But of course it's easy - if you take the view that a manager isn't good enough, you are almost invariably proven right sooner or later. Not many managers leave a top club in any other way than by getting sacked.

When a manager comes in the natural thing to do is look at their resumé which is why I'm seeing plenty of people already knocking Rangnick or at least doubting his qualities even though in his case it's the bigger picture that should be looked at when his tenure of interim is finished. With Ole I don’t think many people had a problem when he was made interim even if it came out of nowhere. The problem came when he was given his first permanent contract which if the club had of waited until the end of the season as they should of done he wouldn't have gotten the job.

Giving him that job full time put a lot of doubt in peoples minds. Especially after the way the season capitulated and not forgetting that Ole hadn't won a trophy since 2014 which in it's own way tell it's own story if he was good enough or not. Of course a manager can come into a top level club from nowhere and succeed (Pep, Zidane) but I don’t think I've ever seen a manager come into a top club and start winning the serious trophies after being in the game as long as Ole has.

You keep talking about results without mentioning performances which is where I think the fanbase was divided most. People were comparing Klopp and Ole after their first 100 games but the fundamental difference was Klopp was showing improvement month on month whereas Ole didn't. We were a mishmash of a team that while getting results didn't look like we were getting close (or anywhere near) the standard required of winning the big trophies. It's not even hindsight. The proof was there all along if people chose to see it. Some did, some didn't and here we are.

 

[Foxbatt]

So that is what you base it on? Bailly not beeing happy? Why not balance your view with the support the players and staff have said? There are no doubt we didn’t preform, and why shouldn’t “as to why” being discussed? This thread is so embarrassing I don’t know if it hurts being a fellow fan or to laugh about it. You can’t be serious
This is the same paper saying Ole chose VDB over Grealish mate. We all know Ole didn’t chose VDB over anyone..

Then why did Ole buy him?

 

[Foxbatt]

Again twisting facts here. I have never said Ole can;t be criticized. There are ample legit reasons why his football is open to criticism. But the way for a few months now some people (pricks not fans) want to turn even his genuine achievements into nothing, is shameful.
Give credit where it is due- that;s all I am saying.

What has he done that the managers we sacked hasn't done? Getting 2nd place? Jose did that too. And won a couple of trophies with it. He did not have any genuine achievement for a club like Manchester United. Except make us a laughing stock and Liverpool fans singing Ole is at the wheel. Jose was sacked when we were 7th. What was our position when Ole was sacked?

 

[InspiRED]

Well, what exactly does it mean to "think that a manager is not good enough"?

Guessing on behalf of this poster but I think it means they don't think the manager is good enough to manage the club.

How do you know?

Think this is specifically why the poster used the verb 'think' and not 'know'. Also how do you know you're not gonna get run over when you next cross a road? The simple fact is, you don't know etc...

Unless your point is basically that other people shouldn't be allowed to think things that don't align with your own viewpoints. Which is a different but, I would wager, still fairly substantial problem!

 

[tombombadil]

The fickle mob has a short memory. Thank you for all the good times, #20Legend

 

[Roane]

Any links to those reports? Reliable ones, not click bait. All I’ve seen is praise. Putting out cones? What the feck do you guys believe professional football is?

Maybe take a look and find them? They're everywhere. Social media, press...

I might ask you the same question, what do you think professional sport is? I know it's not taking a break when you've been hammered by Liverpool and Watford.

I've played sport to a decent level and when you play bad or get humiliated or are struggling you hit the training field harder, you spend more hours doing drills, practising on your weaknesses, hell even try things you haven't before just to give yourself an edge. Younsont go onna jolly or excitedly point out you don't have anything to do with X Y or Z.

If that means you get up an hour early and put out cones you do it. It's professional sport bit a Sunday pub side where you have a piss up winnlose or draw and have a smile and "same again next week lads".

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Again twisting facts here. I have never said Ole can;t be criticized. There are ample legit reasons why his football is open to criticism. But the way for a few months now some people (pricks not fans) want to turn even his genuine achievements into nothing, is shameful.
Give credit where it is due- that;s all I am saying.

What "genuine achievements" would those be? Spending 400 million? Winning nothing? Imposing no discernible style of play in 3 years? Here are some more:

– Twenty-one percent of United’s 63 home defeats in Premier League history have come under Solskjaer, who has lost 13 out of 55.

– In 2019-20, United endured their worst start to a league season since 1986-87, picking up just 10 points from their opening nine games.

– The Norwegian is the only United manager to have lost a European home game by a margin of more than one goal.

– Tottenham recorded their biggest ever win over United at Old Trafford in October 2020, comfortably beating Solskjaer’s side 6-1.

– During their game against Liverpool in October 2021, United were four goals behind at half-time for the first time in Premier League history.

– Solskjaer oversaw United’s heaviest ever defeat at home to Liverpool and their biggest loss against the Reds since 1895.

– United’s 5-0 defeat to Liverpool saw them concede five goals at home without scoring a goal themselves for the first time since 1955.

– United have lost seven Premier League games by four or more goals and Solskjaer has been in charge for three of them.

– United managed just four touches in the opposition penalty area during their 2-0 defeat to Manchester City in November 2021, the lowest they have ever recorded since Opta began recording this data in the 2008-09 season.

– The Red Devils haven’t kept a clean sheet in their last 14 home games, their longest run without once since 1959.

– While 2021 isn’t over yet, United have already lost eight home games in all competitions in a single year for the first time since 1989.

– During Solskjaer’s reign, Crystal Palace beat United at Old Trafford in consecutive seasons for the first time in their history.

– In recent seasons, Burnley recorded their first win at Old Trafford since 1962 while Sheffield United claimed their first Old Trafford win since 1973.

 

[Robbie Boy]

you’re persistent I’ll give you that…
I’m curious though, was the 140 million net spend in the 2019/2020 season not good enough? How much money do you expect us to spend man?

Out of curiosity, who were these managers actively avoiding the job? I don’t really get it. Mourinho got given a new contract the summer he left indicating there were no plans to replace him. We immediately installed Ole as interim. We then gave him the new long term deal after PSG because of his good start. So where along those lines where we trying to and interviewing a string of managers who were rejecting us? Doesn’t add up to me.

I go to games…. I’ll say that before I say the rest. But those who go to games don’t necessarily have a better grasp of football than those who don’t. And there’s numerous match goers on here who prove that.

This has been drummed on here a lot but a lot of fans are ‘United above all else’ what is best for United is their number one aim. Not things like ‘backing the manager no matter what’ or ‘I go to games you dont’ point scoring.
The division was largely caused because so many people knew Ole was never going to be a successful United manager and they based this on their knowledge of football.
How can you expect people to be fully behind something they don’t believe and have no faith in?

I think this is what you and a lot of others have completely failed to grasp over the last three years. It’s the same concept as fans never believing McFred will be a highly successful midfield partnership. It doesn’t mean you don’t support the team it just means you put your football knowledge first before tribalism.

I get Ole was a United legend (I own two Solskjaer jerseys) but that doesn’t mean he should have been backed blindly. He was never going to be good enough. I agree that there is now some exaggerating going on about how he did. He didn’t do terribly or bad but bottom line is he didn’t do enough. He got a big opportunity and he didn’t take it.

Measuring how well Ole did in terms of rebuilding is not something that can be done now, despite your attempts to. If we become a successful club again in two to three years then fine but at the moment it’s all conjecture.

Good post.

 

[NewUser777]

Maybe take a look and find them? They're everywhere. Social media, press...

I might ask you the same question, what do you think professional sport is? I know it's not taking a break when you've been hammered by Liverpool and Watford.

I've played sport to a decent level and when you play bad or get humiliated or are struggling you hit the training field harder, you spend more hours doing drills, practising on your weaknesses, hell even try things you haven't before just to give yourself an edge. Younsont go onna jolly or excitedly point out you don't have anything to do with X Y or Z.

If that means you get up an hour early and put out cones you do it. It's professional sport bit a Sunday pub side where you have a piss up winnlose or draw and have a smile and "same again next week lads".

I know what it is. I’ve done it and taken an education in it. Not in it anymore, but my kids coaches have higher standard than you lot give Ole credit for. And it’s a progressive sport. I don’t know shit when I sit down with his coaches. The simplicity spout on here is beyond embarrassing. Good on you for carrying some experience! Then you know you don’t blame anyone else for the shit show some of our players have been serving. You take responsibility. How many times did you preform like shit looking at your coaches for blame!? I can’t remember a single time!
I can’t. I can’t find a reliable source anywhere. All click bait. There are so much academic criticism to lay out, but all I read is piss takes, drama and blame game. Get real mate
How did Klopp fare in his fourth year? How did Liverpool play? Did Tottenham immediately change their fortune once Conte came in? Simple takes on complex problems is the biggest of downfalls. The word from within the club is he did a very good job setting the club up for success. Fair enough odds catched up with him this season, but come on! Have some self respect, and to Ole for the job he did.

 

[NewUser777]

Good post.

Not really. Highly subjective, besides the last paragraph. No one knows. We will see, but no one knows from the outside. It was the same people calling him an idiot thinking Pereira was good enough. The minute he could replace him, he did. Who knows what he thought about McFred. Not much options for the man. And who knows how much they tried replacing them. This week Grealish comes out with something we didn’t know the extent of. Players didn’t preform this season. That’s down to his responsibility. End of. Finally showing your true face there Robbie, for all the intermediate role you trying to play..

 

[Robbie Boy]

Not really. Highly subjective, besides the last paragraph. No one knows. We will see, but no one knows from the outside. It was the same people calling him an idiot thinking Pereira was good enough. The minute he could replace him, he did. Who knows what he thought about McFred. Not much options for the man. And who knows how much they tried replacing them. This week Grealish comes out with something we didn’t know the extent of. Players didn’t preform this season. That’s down to his responsibility. End of. Finally showing your true face there Robbie, for all the intermediate role you trying to play..

Riiigggghhhhttttt. All this because I said "good post"

Fyi, I never once hid I was a massive Ole doubter. The post he replied to was far more subjective, and actually full of misty eyed bollox, in all honesty.

 

[devips]

What has he done that the managers we sacked hasn't done? Getting 2nd place? Jose did that too. And won a couple of trophies with it. He did not have any genuine achievement for a club like Manchester United. Except make us a laughing stock and Liverpool fans singing Ole is at the wheel. Jose was sacked when we were 7th. What was our position when Ole was sacked?

Don't be stupid. I never said he cannot be sacked. What I want as a United fan is minimum respect for a club legend who had tried to play good football while he coached United and brought them to second place in the league and a place in the europa finals. (may not seem much to you, but you are not the only guy in the world)

 

[devips]

What "genuine achievements" would those be? Spending 400 million? Winning nothing? Imposing no discernible style of play in 3 years? Here are some more:

– Twenty-one percent of United’s 63 home defeats in Premier League history have come under Solskjaer, who has lost 13 out of 55.

– In 2019-20, United endured their worst start to a league season since 1986-87, picking up just 10 points from their opening nine games.

– The Norwegian is the only United manager to have lost a European home game by a margin of more than one goal.

– Tottenham recorded their biggest ever win over United at Old Trafford in October 2020, comfortably beating Solskjaer’s side 6-1.

– During their game against Liverpool in October 2021, United were four goals behind at half-time for the first time in Premier League history.

– Solskjaer oversaw United’s heaviest ever defeat at home to Liverpool and their biggest loss against the Reds since 1895.

– United’s 5-0 defeat to Liverpool saw them concede five goals at home without scoring a goal themselves for the first time since 1955.

– United have lost seven Premier League games by four or more goals and Solskjaer has been in charge for three of them.

– United managed just four touches in the opposition penalty area during their 2-0 defeat to Manchester City in November 2021, the lowest they have ever recorded since Opta began recording this data in the 2008-09 season.

– The Red Devils haven’t kept a clean sheet in their last 14 home games, their longest run without once since 1959.

– While 2021 isn’t over yet, United have already lost eight home games in all competitions in a single year for the first time since 1989.

– During Solskjaer’s reign, Crystal Palace beat United at Old Trafford in consecutive seasons for the first time in their history.

– In recent seasons, Burnley recorded their first win at Old Trafford since 1962 while Sheffield United claimed their first Old Trafford win since 1973.

The above is the kind of post why I bellieve there are fans and then there are pricks.

 

[Amir]

The above is the kind of post why I bellieve there are fans and then there are pricks.

Not a very good way to deal with facts.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

The above is the kind of post why I bellieve there are fans and then there are pricks.

You can't even come up with one. Figures.

I'm sorry that facts hurt your feelings. Keep calling people you don't agree with pricks, by the way. It'll go well for you.