Should lock this thread.The man is gone.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He could have had time if the board would have sacked Ole after the city game, instead of sending him on a fishing trip. Shambles. Imagine Ralf with two weeks there
Finishing 2nd (12 points behind City) is now called getting a silver in PL
Supporters of Ole really have no shame. Get over it boys. He is gone.
Bizarre statement. Poch and Rangnick probably saw a job that couldn't realistically be done worse than how Ole was doing it, at a huge club with huge potential, and a fat paycheck too. How on earth can you use that as evidence of Ole's foundation-laying prowess?
Yes I agree with you. He should have been sacked the moment we got thrashed by Liverpool. Or even before that.
How did he leave us better off than Jose when Jose won trophies, came 2nd, made finals and left us higher on the table when he got sacked. All after a summer without Marquee signings and a highly toxic dressing room. You can't call one a success and the other a failure. I thought the folie en masse would be over when he left but it's still going and we are now crediting him for getting sacked so we could sign a better manager. Like being incompetent was part of some failure by design masterplan. Jose left us toxic, Ole left us broken.
I think when people say he left us better off they mean with a better squad, which it definitely is. But I don't think solskjaer should be given much credit for spending half a billion and leaving a better squad behind
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but Ole's building of this team is way overrated. The players he bought with big money for the first team were household names like AWB, Maguire, Fernandes, Sancho, Varane, and Ronaldo. Any bloke could have picked them. The lesser known players he bought - we just don't hear of them anymore, do we?Ole didn’t meet everyone’s expectations last season. In the end he meet nobody’s expectations.
Now it’s time to move on and see if Ralf is able to fulfil the potential of the team Ole build. That’s something we shouldn’t forget talking about Ole’s legacy
Ralf is perfect for us right now and I think he’ll improve our play immediately. I’m very very exited and look forward to se him in action.
Credit to people who managed to bring him to United. Think it was a very smart move.
Not to mention the gaping hole in midfield he left us.
If we had got Rangnick right after Mourinho, he would have probably built a better team with the money Ole spent. So, again, sentimentality is clouding some people's judgement of Ole.
I'm also not keen on praising anyone for not wasting half a billion. That's not a standard worth considering. It's basically failing after being given a blank cheque but also Jose actually left behind a decent squad as well. A squad that finished 2nd, got further than Ole's CL campaign and made a cup final. Even unfavoured assets like Lukaku were sellable for a fortune. Probably more than we'll see for Maguire and AWB. Then Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Mctominay, Pogba, Fred and a number of players who were starters in Ole's best season came from previous managers. No one gives Jose credit for leaving most of them behind.
To be fair, while Fernandes was a known name, not many were trying to pick him out of the Portuguese League. We did and it turned out to be an inspired signing.
Unfortunately, Fernandes is also probably our only unequivocal success in the transfer market during Solskjaer's tenure.
Sentimentality was ingrained at such an extent during Ole's tenure that there will be two opposing camps going at each other's throat for years to come whenever his name is mentioned. In a cruel twist of fate for a man supposedly brought in to bring unity and stability, this could very well be his most lasting legacy as our manager.
His last legacy
A contributory factor to his downfall was this idea he considered himself a manager rather than a head coach. I think he's on record as saying as much. It's how the great managers of the past, Clough, Ferguson etc, eventually managed; hands off, delegation. But they weren't like that in the beginning. That's what you can do once you achieve a certain status and have a team of staff around you good enough and that you trust. In the beginning, like all the greats have done, you need to get stuck in and be a training ground manager to stamp your mark on the team.
To me it seems as if Ole really just wanted to play latter-years Alex Ferguson rather than actually put any of the work and toil early-years Fergie put into getting to the stage where he could be hands off. You can't have achieved nothing in the game as manager and walk into a club like United and manage it the same way Sir Alex did. You see the difference with the manager now who is much older, has achieved far more yet going by his words alone will probably put in more effort than coming in to spin on Sir Alex's chair for a few hours and give team talks where he says nothing more substantial than "get stuck in, lads"
To me it seems as if Ole really just wanted to play latter-years Alex Ferguson rather than actually put any of the work and toil early-years Fergie put into getting to the stage where he could be hands off. You can't have achieved nothing in the game as manager and walk into a club like United and manage it the same way Sir Alex did. You see the difference with the manager now who is much older, has achieved far more yet going by his words alone will probably put in more effort than coming in to spin on Sir Alex's chair for a few hours and give team talks where he says nothing more substantial than "get stuck in, lads"
It's impossible really to answer because whether on not you think we are now better or worse off for having had three years of Ole depends on what the club might have done instead.
I think one thing people do forget really quickly is just how poor our squad was when Ole took over. Plus, under Ole we finished 3rd and then 2nd. It might not have been pretty at times and there were bad times along the way, but I'm not sure even Pep or Klopp could have achieved higher league finishes with our squad.
Having said all that, I was surprised at quite how poorly coached we looked this year. It was Sunday League stuff. That worries me, because maybe we have wasted a year that we could have used to be coaching an actual style into our players. I suppose it depends how quickly Ralf can get his ideas into the players.
I think one thing people do forget really quickly is just how poor our squad was when Ole took over. Plus, under Ole we finished 3rd and then 2nd. It might not have been pretty at times and there were bad times along the way, but I'm not sure even Pep or Klopp could have achieved higher league finishes with our squad.
Having said all that, I was surprised at quite how poorly coached we looked this year. It was Sunday League stuff. That worries me, because maybe we have wasted a year that we could have used to be coaching an actual style into our players. I suppose it depends how quickly Ralf can get his ideas into the players.
50 mil worth defensive fb who can't play in attacking system and 80mil worth captain who is in reality 3rd best defender in club, are his biggest legacy to new coach.
"Team is in better place than 3 years ago"...... biggest myth which will never die.
Maguire played well, Greenwood did well, Dalot only played a couple of decent/good games but of course this doesn’t stop you writing the same stupid stuff.
But hey, last few results have been alright without Pogba, no?
His legacy as a manager is looking worse after today.
One training session under Ralf and already you can see something exciting potentially. Solskjaer’s legacy will involve people wondering what the hell they did in training.
How do you rank our centrebacks 1 to 5?
We can argue all we want on here but it is self-evident. For all the nice words in that exit interview, the club has done once again a screeching u-turn that would make Boris Johnson proud. From old school “United (i.e. Fergie era) DNA” to German theorist who is the high priest of Gegenpress.
1. Varane
2. Lindelof
3. Bailly
4. Maguire
For me, the ability to play in a high line is very important to a high press system and Maguire does not sooth that.
The lack of system was always the problem for Ole. After Bruno joined, he was carried solely by his moments of magic and consistent attacking output. Before Bruno we were playing like a mid-table side and after Bruno joined, we were playing like a mid-table side that had a player who could create something out of nothing.
Varane is level above all.
Lindelof is level above Maguire.
Maguire is 3rd best.
Bailly is close to Harry. Tbh in attacking system he is maybe even better solution than Harry.
To be clear; i am not saying thst Harry is shit defender. But he is not type of defender for attacking football
Fair enough I agree on Varane, I'd have Bailly 4th also too reckless when he is fit for my liking. Going off this seasons form Lindelof has been better but over all in their United careers I'd still have Maguire 2nd behind Varane.
I'd like to see Varane and Maguire get a run together to see if they can form a solid partnership.
I am also worried by how uncomfortable he looked in possession. He takes ages to make a decision and by that time, an opposing player is on him.
Passion and desire. And i am not even joking. Guy said that by himself.
Tactics are not important. It is who wants it more. Mind blowing
Ole's point about systems, tactics etc not being that important and it being about desire and winning 50/50s will look dumber by the week.
Olé probably could have brought in a coach here to do this but he froze. I don’t know if that would have been enough. His use of the squad and youth was poor too. We looked so out of ideas under him so often. So open on the counter
We got 2nd with no tactics apparently, yet the German genius winning 1-0 to Palace thanks to Fred worldie shows how bad Ole is. United fans never fail to surprise me.
Want the ball.
Harass every opposition player.
Sub on a youngster.
Win the game.
Lot's of Fergie DNA in this game I think.
United under Ole lacked all those things, so this is more back to Fergie than everything Ole ever coached into the team.
I do like how one hard fought 1-0 win over Crystal Palace proves the manager who got 3rd and 2nd in the previous 2 seasons was totally incompetent...
I can only assume if we don't go to Newcastle and thump them more than 4-1 that means the current manager is a joke and needs to go etc.
I can only assume if we don't go to Newcastle and thump them more than 4-1 that means the current manager is a joke and needs to go etc.
We got 2nd because of Liverpool's injuries and Chelsea only getting Tuchel in midseason, they were clearly better than us by the end of the season. And empty stadiums helped us.
Couldn't help thinking of that no one will out work us quote as the players looked absolutely shattered today at the sight of hard work
The disrespect towards Ole on this forum (and other manager since Fergie) is rather distasteful.
Tuchel got 4 more points than Solskjaer did last season in the same time period and that included the end of the season where they played City in a glorified friendly and we were basically off for the last 4 games of the season.
You are correct though, we are the only team in the league who played in an empty stadium which was a distinct advantage.
Someone is always struggling when someone else does well. Almost all top teams struggled in 2015/16 but that didn’t stop us from only getting 5th in the league.
And I can guarantee you if we finish top 2 in the league in the coming years, then again at least 1 or 2 of Chelsea/City/Liverpool will be struggling or Tuchel will be gone or something like that.
Absolutely, this was the most United performance for years. I put the “DNA” in inverted commas as I was referring to the phoney, ersatz version that has been pedalled by the club and the Ole apologists on here for the last few years.If we followed that version of the “United Way” in 1986, we would not have appointed Ferguson but given the job to a random ex-player like Gordon Hill or Willie Morgan.