Solskjaers Legacy

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Oct 12, 2020
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He should be treated like a dog? Where have I treated him like a dog?
if you ask me dogs get treated very well… so maybe that was the problem with ole, we treated him like a dog and not a person who was given the job of manager of Man Utd with all the expectations and money involved
 

berbasloth4

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ireland
solskjaer will always be a hero. his managerial time at us isnt has bad as you thing. he got us playing football after jose! he gave kids a chance! majority of his signings were ok. he got the feel good factor back for a while. we improved oved every season. unfortunately he couldnt take us any further. I and along with many red will always love and thank him.
 

lex talionis

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It’s time to let it go, but Ole’s legacy will not improve as time goes on. We have an incredible squad, but it severely underperformed and got humiliated more than once.

It’s best to forget this legacy.
 

berbasloth4

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It’s time to let it go, but Ole’s legacy will not improve as time goes on. We have an incredible squad, but it severely underperformed and got humiliated more than once.

It’s best to forget this legacy.
never ever forget oles legacy!!!!!
 

Greck

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Messages
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solskjaer will always be a hero. his managerial time at us isnt has bad as you thing. he got us playing football after jose! he gave kids a chance! majority of his signings were ok. he got the feel good factor back for a while. we improved oved every season. unfortunately he couldnt take us any further. I and along with many red will always love and thank him.
Nope. We got twonked 5-0 by Liverpool and are on an embarrassing trophyless spell. The subjective feel good factor people speak of is just their inner loyalty to the man, I'm sure even Jose fans felt the same. The period wasn't objectively productive nor subjectively fun for those who didn't care or were indifferent to who the manager was. Give that tenure to anyone else and it would be almost universally considered a disastrous waste of time. 3 years of "rome wasn't built in a day" just to end up sacked with no rome. What was it all for? We even ended up worse on the table than Jose's final season so where's the progress?

Ole will remain one of my favourite United players ever but Ole the manager is one to not only forget but also regret.
 
Last edited:

Sky1981

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solskjaer will always be a hero. his managerial time at us isnt has bad as you thing. he got us playing football after jose! he gave kids a chance! majority of his signings were ok. he got the feel good factor back for a while. we improved oved every season. unfortunately he couldnt take us any further. I and along with many red will always love and thank him.
Here's the problem. Some of us thinks differently. Legend aside we're wasteful, embarassing on the field, and spent 3 years in limbo stunting players development, with the team more unbalanced than ever and filled with even more deadwoods in maguire, awb, mct, amad etc with shaw getting worse this year, rashford getting worse as years go by, martial being martial we're actually back to square one.

He doesnt take us as far as he can, he took us 400m and 3 years backward.

We will need another 200-300m to fix the holes in this squad.
 

criticalanalysis

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Here's the problem. Some of us thinks differently. Legend aside we're wasteful, embarassing on the field, and spent 3 years in limbo stunting players development, with the team more unbalanced than ever and filled with even more deadwoods in maguire, awb, mct, amad etc with shaw getting worse this year, rashford getting worse as years go by, martial being martial we're actually back to square one.

He doesnt take us as far as he can, he took us 400m and 3 years backward.

We will need another 200-300m to fix the holes in this squad.
I agree with most of your criticism on Ole and I applaud your stamina to continually balance out, the generous benefit of the doubt he is getting from people who believe he did an 'acceptable' job. However, I think you're probably a bit too eager to write off the players we have. There are more than a few on really poor form but let's see how they'll do under a manager that actually knows how to coach. I'll put it down as your passion for now!
 

Sky1981

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I agree with most of your criticism on Ole and I applaud your stamina to continually balance out, the generous benefit of the doubt he is getting from people who believe he did an 'acceptable' job. However, I think you're probably a bit too eager to write off the players we have. There are more than a few on really poor form but let's see how they'll do under a manager that actually knows how to coach. I'll put it down as your passion for now!
I think the jury is well decided on awb and Maguire

They might do the job adequately under the new management. But no way they're worth their price tag. And here's the bigger issue. If we want to compete we need better than just functioning player. We need players that are statistically better than 90% of the rest to the very least. That still make them the worst out of top 3-4 teams.

AWB and Maguire works if top 4 is our aim but to really push the league or god forbid win it we need better player.

So yes.. in the grand scheme of things they're just deadwoods that needs to be replaced.

Ditto rashford and shaw and the rest. At their best form they're just par to push for liverpool, city. They really need to be at their best for 38 games, which is a big ask.
 

Kopral Jono

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Here's the problem. Some of us thinks differently. Legend aside we're wasteful, embarassing on the field, and spent 3 years in limbo stunting players development, with the team more unbalanced than ever and filled with even more deadwoods in maguire, awb, mct, amad etc with shaw getting worse this year, rashford getting worse as years go by, martial being martial we're actually back to square one.

He doesnt take us as far as he can, he took us 400m and 3 years backward.

We will need another 200-300m to fix the holes in this squad.
You're being a bit harsh on the deadwood argument but the fact remains: Ole is a monumentally shit manager and I personally think he was worse than Moyes all things considered. Objectively speaking, he did close to feck all aside from signing Bruno and making Shaw one of the best fullbacks in the world for a year. Even the whole 'brought in stability' narrative is overrated, in my opinion -- the much-lauded run of wins when he first became interim was partly down to the sheer sense of respite the players felt from Mourinho leaving the club.

And I'm also not ashamed to say that despite everything he did as a player for us, because of his abject shortcomings as a manager his overall legacy is tainted a bit for me, though I understand the majority probably doesn't share this sentiment.
 

Bebestation

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I think the jury is well decided on awb and Maguire

They might do the job adequately under the new management. But no way they're worth their price tag. And here's the bigger issue. If we want to compete we need better than just functioning player. We need players that are statistically better than 90% of the rest to the very least. That still make them the worst out of top 3-4 teams.

AWB and Maguire works if top 4 is our aim but to really push the league or god forbid win it we need better player.

So yes.. in the grand scheme of things they're just deadwoods that needs to be replaced.

Ditto rashford and shaw and the rest. At their best form they're just par to push for liverpool, city. They really need to be at their best for 38 games, which is a big ask.
So? Is Lukaku worth his price tag? Saul even on Loan? Hell even if it isn't Tuchel's, Havertz has good games covered with average, werner is horrible for Chelsea.

What about Grealish?
Ake?
Benjamin Mendy?
Sane?

Naby keita? 50 something million
Chamberlain for 35 mil
Jota for me isn't worth 45mil.
Thiago hasn't been worth 28 mil.

People acting like Maguire and wan bissaka is some sort of signing that other clubs don't do- never mind that atleast some of those players have had more just good game where they can improve on when coming off or form.


Ole did well trying to help us move forward to players like Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Telles, AWB, VDB and sorting out shit like Fellaini, Herrera, Ashley Young, Sanchez, Lukaku etc.

How can people hate someone so much that they don't see the difference between the first group of players and the second.
 

devips

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So? Is Lukaku worth his price tag? Saul even on Loan? Hell even if it isn't Tuchel's, Havertz has good games covered with average, werner is horrible for Chelsea.

What about Grealish?
Ake?
Benjamin Mendy?
Sane?

Naby keita? 50 something million
Chamberlain for 35 mil
Jota for me isn't worth 45mil.
Thiago hasn't been worth 28 mil.

People acting like Maguire and wan bissaka is some sort of signing that other clubs don't do- never mind that atleast some of those players have had more just good game where they can improve on when coming off or form.


Ole did well trying to help us move forward to players like Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Telles, AWB, VDB and sorting out shit like Fellaini, Herrera, Ashley Young, Sanchez, Lukaku etc.

How can people hate someone so much that they don't see the difference between the first group of players and the second.
Spot on. some of our so-called fans are so cringeworthy in their bias.
 

Dante

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His footballing performances in the first 3 years was good but not great. Obviously, it all went to pot in the last few weeks. But up until then, things were looking up.

Put it this way: since Fergie retired, this was the first time that anybody ever seriously considered us contenders for the PL or CL. If you can't at least give Solksjaer credit for that, it says more about you than it does about him.

So his legacy is going to be mostly positive. The work he did in resetting the dressing room culture, the youth players he nurtured, the quality of signings he made, and the sense of togetherness he fostered were all really good. Ole's successors are going to massively benefit from the foundations he left behind, in a way that none of our other managers can say they left things at Old Trafford.
 

Karlos PFC

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sorting out shit like Fellaini, Herrera, Ashley Young, Sanchez, Lukaku etc.
Some might argue that this team is desperate for a player like Herrera, and before we got CR everyone and their cat could see that we needed a striker (Lukaku).
 

Son

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Apr 24, 2019
Messages
651
It’s time to let it go, but Ole’s legacy will not improve as time goes on. We have an incredible squad, but it severely underperformed and got humiliated more than once.

It’s best to forget this legacy.
I agree with this. Some say his legacy would live on as he left the club in a better place. I’m not sure he left much.

We spent like £400 million so anyone would have realistically got some form of a team in place after top tier investment.
 

Dante

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Oct 22, 2010
Messages
23,777
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My wit's end
LvG's transfers:
PlayerTransfer fee paid (£m)Age at purchaseTransfer fee received (£m)Age at sale
Ángel Di María
67.5​
26​
Luke Shaw
33.75​
19​
Ander Herrera
32.4​
25​
Marcos Rojo
18​
24​
Daley Blind
15.75​
24​
Vanja Milinković-Savić
1.58​
17​
Radamel Falcao
0​
28​
Danny Welbeck
18​
23​
Shinji Kagawa
7.2​
25​
Alexander Büttner
4.95​
25​
Wilfried Zaha
3.42​
21​
Bebé
2.7​
24​
Patrice Evra
1.71​
33​
Anthony Martial
54.00​
19​
Morgan Schneiderlin
31.50​
25​
Memphis Depay
30.60​
21​
Matteo Darmian
16.20​
25​
Bastian Schweinsteiger
8.10​
31​
Ángel Di María
56.7​
27​
Chicharito
10.8​
27​
Jonny Evans
7.47​
27​
Robin van Persie
5.85​
32​
Nani
5.4​
30​
Rafael
2.88​
25​
Ángelo Henríquez
1.5​
21​

Jose's signings:
PlayerTransfer fee paid (£m)Age at purchaseTransfer fee received (£m)Age at sale
Paul Pogba
94.50​
23​
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
37.80​
27​
Eric Bailly
34.20​
22​
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
0.00​
34​
Morgan Schneiderlin
20.7​
26​
Memphis Depay
14.4​
22​
Paddy McNair
4.73​
21​
Tyler Blackett
1.62​
22​
Will Keane
1.08​
23​
Romelu Lukaku
76.23​
24​
Nemanja Matic
40.23​
29​
Victor Lindelöf
31.50​
23​
Alexis Sánchez
30.60​
30​
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
30.6​
28​
Adnan Januzaj
7.65​
22​
Fred
53.10​
25​
Diogo Dalot
19.80​
19​
Lee Grant
1.53​
35​
Daley Blind
14.4​
28​
Sam Johnstone
6.62​
22​
Marouane Fellaini
6.48​
30​

Ole's signings:
PlayerTransfer fee paid (£m)Age at purchaseTransfer fee received (£m)Age at sale
Harry Maguire
78.30​
26​
Bruno Fernandes
56.70​
24​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
49.50​
21​
Daniel James
16.02​
21​
Romelu Lukaku
66.6​
26​
Matteo Darmian
2.23​
29​
Ashley Young
1.53​
34​
Donny van de Beek
35.10​
23​
Amad Diallo
19.17​
18​
Alex Telles
13.50​
27​
Facundo Pellistri
7.65​
18​
Edinson Cavani
0.00​
33​
Chris Smalling
13.5​
30​
Timothy Fosu-Mensah
1.53​
22​
Jadon Sancho
76.50​
21​
Raphaël Varane
36.00​
28​
Cristiano Ronaldo
13.50​
36​
Daniel James
26.19​
23​

Averages:
ManagerNet spend per season (£m)Average age of outgoingsAverage age of incomingsPlayers 21 or underAmount spent on players 21 or under (£m)
LvG90.426.223.74119.9
Mourniho103.7426.524.4119.8
Ole96.7927.324.75168.8

Ole's average net spend was higher than LvG's (as you'd expect after a few years of market prices increasing), but lower than Jose's. Overall, there wasn't much between the three of them in terms of net spend, so it's worth digging a bit deeper at the age/mentality profile of exactly who was bought.

Solksjaer's average age of incomings was obviously pushed up by the purchases of Ronaldo and Cavani. But I guess you could say the same for Jose bringing in Zlatan. The difference, however, is if you look at each of their transfers of players under 21. That's clearly what the focus was with Solksjaer. But whereas Ole only bought Ronaldo and Cavani as stop gaps for his youth players, Jose was all about putting all his eggs into a single win-right-now basket. Let's not forget, if Mourinho had had his way, we'd have also got a 30 year old Peresic for £50m.

Players like Sancho, Pellestri and Amad are top class prospects who Solksjaer was never going to have the opportunity to get the best out of. That's precisely what it means to leave a legacy. Ole put the club's interests before his own.

Then try comparing Ole to LvG. LvG bought the biggest lot of weak-willed mercaneries you've ever seen. That culture change from SAF set us back years. One of the hallmarks of a good transfer strategy is assessing your targets' mentalities. Louis obviously never got the message. United turned into Disneyland under his management.

That's not to say Ole's cultural reset hasn't been perfect since. Transfers are always going to be gambles. But at least he did buy players like Bruno, Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho who aren't shy about letting their teammates know when they've fecked something up. None of them are quite Roy Keane, but that's the ideal we were aiming for. If it's about leaving a legacy, building a squad like that is exactly what will teach our youngsters what it means to be a top player at a top club.
 

Dante

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I agree with this. Some say his legacy would live on as he left the club in a better place. I’m not sure he left much.

We spent like £400 million so anyone would have realistically got some form of a team in place after top tier investment.
Much of that was spent on players like Sancho and Amad who were bought for the future rather than the here-and-now.

It's unfair to use that spend as a stick to beat Ole with. If anything, it should be an argument in favour of Solksjaer's legacy.
 

AjaxCunian

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Sancho was bought for the future and not for the now? That is just rubbish.

He has been one of the best wingers (not just young wingers) for a good 3 seasons. Sure his age means he has a great future here, but that was a signing for the now and future and Solksjaer had no clue how to use him.
 

Son

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Apr 24, 2019
Messages
651
Much of that was spent on players like Sancho and Amad who were bought for the future rather than the here-and-now.

It's unfair to use that spend as a stick to beat Ole with. If anything, it should be an argument in favour of Solksjaer's legacy.
Bruno too but his signings have flopped mostly. I agree Amad and Sancho might turn out to be all time greats for us. I hope they do.

I think these were at times quite obvious signings we would have made under Mourinho also. Amad is definitely a player he would have gone after and we were linked to Sancho for a few years.

Same with Jude Bellingham in the future I’m not gonna be surprised if he rocks up here as we are obviously in for him as a club.
 

Giggzy P

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So? Is Lukaku worth his price tag? Saul even on Loan? Hell even if it isn't Tuchel's, Havertz has good games covered with average, werner is horrible for Chelsea.

What about Grealish?
Ake?
Benjamin Mendy?
Sane?

Naby keita? 50 something million
Chamberlain for 35 mil
Jota for me isn't worth 45mil.
Thiago hasn't been worth 28 mil.

People acting like Maguire and wan bissaka is some sort of signing that other clubs don't do- never mind that atleast some of those players have had more just good game where they can improve on when coming off or form.


Ole did well trying to help us move forward to players like Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Telles, AWB, VDB and sorting out shit like Fellaini, Herrera, Ashley Young, Sanchez, Lukaku etc.

How can people hate someone so much that they don't see the difference between the first group of players and the second.
Every club or manager get's some signings wrong, however, Klopp will have a Keita or Pep an Ake overlocked because, they have been successful with the money they have spent.

Ole didn't win, and his football was terrible. You said "he wasn't that bad" , but I think we can all agree and say he was bad, that is why he was sacked.
 

Dante

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My wit's end
Bruno too but his signings have flopped mostly. I agree Amad and Sancho might turn out to be all time greats for us. I hope they do.

I think these were at times quite obvious signings we would have made under Mourinho also. Amad is definitely a player he would have gone after and we were linked to Sancho for a few years.

Same with Jude Bellingham in the future I’m not gonna be surprised if he rocks up here as we are obviously in for him as a club.
No, they haven't.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
21,204
No, they haven't.
Maguire hasnt been adequate for too large chunks in his time here. Wan Bissaka is extremely limited as a right back, Pellistri was never seen, VDB has been a ghost.

I dont think its that inaccurate to be fair.
 

Karlos PFC

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Ole's average net spend was higher than LvG's (as you'd expect after a few years of market prices increasing), but lower than Jose's. Overall, there wasn't much between the three of them in terms of net spend, so it's worth digging a bit deeper at the age/mentality profile of exactly who was bought.

Solksjaer's average age of incomings was obviously pushed up by the purchases of Ronaldo and Cavani. But I guess you could say the same for Jose bringing in Zlatan. The difference, however, is if you look at each of their transfers of players under 21. That's clearly what the focus was with Solksjaer. But whereas Ole only bought Ronaldo and Cavani as stop gaps for his youth players, Jose was all about putting all his eggs into a single win-right-now basket. Let's not forget, if Mourinho had had his way, we'd have also got a 30 year old Peresic for £50m.

Players like Sancho, Pellestri and Amad are top class prospects who Solksjaer was never going to have the opportunity to get the best out of. That's precisely what it means to leave a legacy. Ole put the club's interests before his own.


Then try comparing Ole to LvG. LvG bought the biggest lot of weak-willed mercaneries you've ever seen. That culture change from SAF set us back years. One of the hallmarks of a good transfer strategy is assessing your targets' mentalities. Louis obviously never got the message. United turned into Disneyland under his management.

That's not to say Ole's cultural reset hasn't been perfect since. Transfers are always going to be gambles. But at least he did buy players like Bruno, Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho who aren't shy about letting their teammates know when they've fecked something up. None of them are quite Roy Keane, but that's the ideal we were aiming for. If it's about leaving a legacy, building a squad like that is exactly what will teach our youngsters what it means to be a top player at a top club.
What a load of nonsense.

On the bolded parts

1) if Mourinho got Perisic who was 27/28 at the time we wouldn't go for the most dreadful piece of business that Alexis Sanchez was. Also Perisic had at least 3 good years still in him and had a terrific World Cup and a good EURO in comparison to Alexis where he hasn't performed for the last 4 years. Even in Italy he is considered somewhat of a failure signing.

2) So by buying teens is what legacy means? Hell if he bought 11 under 21s, even if he failed from his first season and got sacked you would still be labeling him a success for putting the club's interest before his own. Just because he bought top class prospects?

3) If anyone can claim that changed the culture of this club post-SAF, surely has to be Moyes.
If anything Van Gaal upgraded the academy structure and actually played a lot of young players. Sure most of these were flops but you can't argue he tried giving youngsters a bigger role in the squad. And this is an important part of the so-called "United DNA" or "United way"

4) United turned into Disneyland the moment Ed arrived as CEO. Disneyland for the agents
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
22,982
You'd think Ole personally bought the players the way some go on.

Manager with a lot of money to spend buys some expensive sought after players isn't the amazing achievement some seem to think it is.

As for he did well until this season, it's incredible that some still can't recognise their were issues leading up to this.
 

Max_United

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
130
LvG's transfers:
PlayerTransfer fee paid (£m)Age at purchaseTransfer fee received (£m)Age at sale
Ángel Di María
67.5​
26​
Luke Shaw
33.75​
19​
Ander Herrera
32.4​
25​
Marcos Rojo
18​
24​
Daley Blind
15.75​
24​
Vanja Milinković-Savić
1.58​
17​
Radamel Falcao
0​
28​
Danny Welbeck
18​
23​
Shinji Kagawa
7.2​
25​
Alexander Büttner
4.95​
25​
Wilfried Zaha
3.42​
21​
Bebé
2.7​
24​
Patrice Evra
1.71​
33​
Anthony Martial
54.00​
19​
Morgan Schneiderlin
31.50​
25​
Memphis Depay
30.60​
21​
Matteo Darmian
16.20​
25​
Bastian Schweinsteiger
8.10​
31​
Ángel Di María
56.7​
27​
Chicharito
10.8​
27​
Jonny Evans
7.47​
27​
Robin van Persie
5.85​
32​
Nani
5.4​
30​
Rafael
2.88​
25​
Ángelo Henríquez
1.5​
21​

Jose's signings:
PlayerTransfer fee paid (£m)Age at purchaseTransfer fee received (£m)Age at sale
Paul Pogba
94.50​
23​
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
37.80​
27​
Eric Bailly
34.20​
22​
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
0.00​
34​
Morgan Schneiderlin
20.7​
26​
Memphis Depay
14.4​
22​
Paddy McNair
4.73​
21​
Tyler Blackett
1.62​
22​
Will Keane
1.08​
23​
Romelu Lukaku
76.23​
24​
Nemanja Matic
40.23​
29​
Victor Lindelöf
31.50​
23​
Alexis Sánchez
30.60​
30​
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
30.6​
28​
Adnan Januzaj
7.65​
22​
Fred
53.10​
25​
Diogo Dalot
19.80​
19​
Lee Grant
1.53​
35​
Daley Blind
14.4​
28​
Sam Johnstone
6.62​
22​
Marouane Fellaini
6.48​
30​

Ole's signings:
PlayerTransfer fee paid (£m)Age at purchaseTransfer fee received (£m)Age at sale
Harry Maguire
78.30​
26​
Bruno Fernandes
56.70​
24​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
49.50​
21​
Daniel James
16.02​
21​
Romelu Lukaku
66.6​
26​
Matteo Darmian
2.23​
29​
Ashley Young
1.53​
34​
Donny van de Beek
35.10​
23​
Amad Diallo
19.17​
18​
Alex Telles
13.50​
27​
Facundo Pellistri
7.65​
18​
Edinson Cavani
0.00​
33​
Chris Smalling
13.5​
30​
Timothy Fosu-Mensah
1.53​
22​
Jadon Sancho
76.50​
21​
Raphaël Varane
36.00​
28​
Cristiano Ronaldo
13.50​
36​
Daniel James
26.19​
23​

Averages:
ManagerNet spend per season (£m)Average age of outgoingsAverage age of incomingsPlayers 21 or underAmount spent on players 21 or under (£m)
LvG90.426.223.74119.9
Mourniho103.7426.524.4119.8
Ole96.7927.324.75168.8

Ole's average net spend was higher than LvG's (as you'd expect after a few years of market prices increasing), but lower than Jose's. Overall, there wasn't much between the three of them in terms of net spend, so it's worth digging a bit deeper at the age/mentality profile of exactly who was bought.

Solksjaer's average age of incomings was obviously pushed up by the purchases of Ronaldo and Cavani. But I guess you could say the same for Jose bringing in Zlatan. The difference, however, is if you look at each of their transfers of players under 21. That's clearly what the focus was with Solksjaer. But whereas Ole only bought Ronaldo and Cavani as stop gaps for his youth players, Jose was all about putting all his eggs into a single win-right-now basket. Let's not forget, if Mourinho had had his way, we'd have also got a 30 year old Peresic for £50m.

Players like Sancho, Pellestri and Amad are top class prospects who Solksjaer was never going to have the opportunity to get the best out of. That's precisely what it means to leave a legacy. Ole put the club's interests before his own.

Then try comparing Ole to LvG. LvG bought the biggest lot of weak-willed mercaneries you've ever seen. That culture change from SAF set us back years. One of the hallmarks of a good transfer strategy is assessing your targets' mentalities. Louis obviously never got the message. United turned into Disneyland under his management.

That's not to say Ole's cultural reset hasn't been perfect since. Transfers are always going to be gambles. But at least he did buy players like Bruno, Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho who aren't shy about letting their teammates know when they've fecked something up. None of them are quite Roy Keane, but that's the ideal we were aiming for. If it's about leaving a legacy, building a squad like that is exactly what will teach our youngsters what it means to be a top player at a top club.
Good analysis, but (1) the manager is clearly not the single voice behind transfers after Fergia and (2) I feel you are cherry picking evidence to benefit Ole a bit:

1. You bring Perisic to argue against Jose, but we chased a 31 year old Trippier whilst having AWB (new signing), Dalot and Laird in his position under Ole. I do not see how it is better than chaing Perisic especially given AWB was signed under Ole. Jose would be 100% criticized a lot if it were the case under him.

2. You are ignoring the fact that under LvG we signed Shaw and Martial at 19 who were first team/squad players after that. If Ole gets credit for his under-21 signings, why not LvG?

3. Pellistri and Amad have a lot to prove and it is not clear they would be at least squad players with us. Pellistri never played for first team yet, Amad player like 3 games in Italy before he signed made a couple of appearances and was behind the likes of Mata in pecking order under Ole. Amad is similar to what Dalot was at his age.

4. So for first team young players signed under Ole we are left with AWB is a huge question mark at the moment and Sancho (there was James who left, but then you have Depay under LvG). Not much really. I would not name it as some huge shift in focus. For the first team we still signed mostly prime age or past-prime players under Ole. Maybe an improvement over Jose's transfers in terms of youth.

5. "aren't shy about letting their teammates know when they've fecked something up" - do you think Ibra was shy about that? And what is the evidence for this for Sancho and Varane?Plus, with Bruno it ended up being outright disruptive on the pitch. Anyway, I do not think that you can talk about "cultural reset" if you are not dropping underperformnace, high fiving Maguire after red card etc etc.

I agree that in transfers under Ole we avoided some of the mistakes of the past. I agree that transfers have been on paper somewhat better. But again - we have a transfer committee, not the manager deciding singlehandedly and even given that our transfer record is questionable.

But I maintain that all the "cultural reset" and "youth focus" is 95% perception and 5% reality at best. And when it comes to stuff that was definitely on the responsibility of manager, Ole's record is quite poor. No youngster was promoted to be a squad player at least bar Greenwood. Many players were untouchable no matter now bad they performed. Average age of the squad is league average. Lots of players rushed back and overplayed (latest news is that Cavani confirmed that he was rushed against Spurs and aggravated his injury). Many disappointed squad players with broken promises. Wrong capitan choice, and the good potential captain (Bruno) not man-managed correctly but pandered to and as a result spend significant parts of each game arguing with referees and complaining....I could go on but I really should stop :)
 

Jippy

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I find the defend ole at all cost including pissing on Ralf actual management distasteful.

The amount of mind gymnastic ole butt hurt brigade is still up in force bigging up this clueless clown who pretend he's a manager for 3 years, serving us hot turd yet you lot call it donuts because it has a rainbow sprinkle on top of it.

He's not the worst manager ever imho, because he's not even a manager. He's just a mascot who does no training and plays candy crush on ipad
Can you give any examples of this?
 

Sky1981

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Good analysis, but (1) the manager is clearly not the single voice behind transfers after Fergia and (2) I feel you are cherry picking evidence to benefit Ole a bit:

1. You bring Perisic to argue against Jose, but we chased a 31 year old Trippier whilst having AWB (new signing), Dalot and Laird in his position under Ole. I do not see how it is better than chaing Perisic especially given AWB was signed under Ole. Jose would be 100% criticized a lot if it were the case under him.

2. You are ignoring the fact that under LvG we signed Shaw and Martial at 19 who were first team/squad players after that. If Ole gets credit for his under-21 signings, why not LvG?

3. Pellistri and Amad have a lot to prove and it is not clear they would be at least squad players with us. Pellistri never played for first team yet, Amad player like 3 games in Italy before he signed made a couple of appearances and was behind the likes of Mata in pecking order under Ole. Amad is similar to what Dalot was at his age.

4. So for first team young players signed under Ole we are left with AWB is a huge question mark at the moment and Sancho (there was James who left, but then you have Depay under LvG). Not much really. I would not name it as some huge shift in focus. For the first team we still signed mostly prime age or past-prime players under Ole. Maybe an improvement over Jose's transfers in terms of youth.

5. "aren't shy about letting their teammates know when they've fecked something up" - do you think Ibra was shy about that? And what is the evidence for this for Sancho and Varane?Plus, with Bruno it ended up being outright disruptive on the pitch. Anyway, I do not think that you can talk about "cultural reset" if you are not dropping underperformnace, high fiving Maguire after red card etc etc.

I agree that in transfers under Ole we avoided some of the mistakes of the past. I agree that transfers have been on paper somewhat better. But again - we have a transfer committee, not the manager deciding singlehandedly and even given that our transfer record is questionable.

But I maintain that all the "cultural reset" and "youth focus" is 95% perception and 5% reality at best. And when it comes to stuff that was definitely on the responsibility of manager, Ole's record is quite poor. No youngster was promoted to be a squad player at least bar Greenwood. Many players were untouchable no matter now bad they performed. Average age of the squad is league average. Lots of players rushed back and overplayed (latest news is that Cavani confirmed that he was rushed against Spurs and aggravated his injury). Many disappointed squad players with broken promises. Wrong capitan choice, and the good potential captain (Bruno) not man-managed correctly but pandered to and as a result spend significant parts of each game arguing with referees and complaining....I could go on but I really should stop :)
Signing players like Pogba 80m or sancho 80m shouldnt be credited to the manager. Good player, huge prices a no shit sherlock type of signing.

Nothing short of getting 110% out of that kind of purchase is justifiable as credit for the manager.
 

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A few post down from there i have given 2
I couldn't see anyone 'pissing' on Ralf, just some defending some of Ole's signings. Some people really need to move on. I haven't seen anyone really not getting behind Ralf, a couple of sceptics sure, which is fair enough, but no-one full-on hating on him.

Signing players like Pogba 80m or sancho 80m shouldnt be credited to the manager. Good player, huge prices a no shit sherlock type of signing.

Nothing short of getting 110% out of that kind of purchase is justifiable as credit for the manager.
Yes and no. Less credit for sure, but you can spunk £90m on Pogba and not get the best out of him, as we've seen with two managers or three at a push if you include SAF, although that would be harsh.
 

Sky1981

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I couldn't see anyone 'pissing' on Ralf, just some defending some of Ole's signings. Some people really need to move on. I haven't seen anyone really not getting behind Ralf, a couple of sceptics sure, which is fair enough, but no-one full-on hating on him.


Yes and no. Less credit for sure, but you can spunk £90m on Pogba and not get the best out of him, as we've seen with two managers or three at a push if you include SAF, although that would be harsh.
Faie enough but the bar should be higher than just buying pogba or sancho.
 

flameinthesun

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On the point of Solskjaer signing more youngsters, I could be wrong but United now have a separate youth budget for youth purchases which whilst Ole probably had a say in would have been managed by Nicky Butt and his team at the time. So pellestri, jurado, kimbwala, fernandez etc I think would have been identified and signed mainly by nicky butt. Amad im a little unsure of as his fee was quite large. So I wouldn't necessarily give Ole credit on this as it seems to be a structural change that united made that coincided with nicky butts position getting a larger transfer budget etc.

This is also a point Rio Ferdinand was making on his podcast that a lot of these background changes that people attribute to Ole (youth structure change, training ground change etc) are not changes Ole made, it was the club that made these changes.
 

Max_United

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I couldn't see anyone 'pissing' on Ralf, just some defending some of Ole's signings. Some people really need to move on. I haven't seen anyone really not getting behind Ralf, a couple of sceptics sure, which is fair enough, but no-one full-on hating on him.


Yes and no. Less credit for sure, but you can spunk £90m on Pogba and not get the best out of him, as we've seen with two managers or three at a push if you include SAF, although that would be harsh.
Correct, but Ole's record or getting the best of/improving new signings is quite poor, that is the thing. Previous two managers did no better, but Ole did not do well at all either. Maguire and AwB are 130m combined question marks still, VdB and Sancho he did not know how to use. Even Bruno stopped improving and his on pitch behavior is quite shameful, but Ole was unfortunately too soft to put a stop on it.
 

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Correct, but Ole's record or getting the best of/improving new signings is quite poor, that is the thing. Previous two managers did no better, but Ole did not do well at all either. Maguire and AwB are 130m combined question marks still, VdB and Sancho he did not know how to use. Even Bruno stopped improving and his on pitch behavior is quite shameful, but Ole was unfortunately too soft to put a stop on it.
Was going to reply but realised this is a debate I have close to zero interest in and don't want to get involved in as I need to go out for dinner:lol:
 

Lecland07

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What I do not understand about some people is that they say 'Solskjaer's signings were great' and then say 'Solskjaer wasn't all that bad'.

But that makes no sense to me. How can both of those possibly be true if he left us in a worse position in the league than when Mourinho was sacked?

Solskjaer was a very poor manager. He did luck out with the league being at the weakest point in a very long time. The top six died out. Chelsea experienced a huge dip. Tottenham were on the decline. Arsenal declined after sacking Emery. Liverpool experienced a torrid time with injuries last season.

The proof is in the pudding. As soon as the league regains strength and competitiveness (this season), Solskjaer gets shown up for the poor manager that he always has been. He was just very lucky with timing.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Don't understand how Ole can have been great in the transfer market and correct for never giving the likes of Donny Telles Amad and increasingly Sancho chances to play... they're his signings
 

Di Maria's angel

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Well, his legacy is what he left behind. A squad low on confidence, absolutely clueless in several aspects of the sport and full of failure. That's what he left behind. I know many on here want to find anything to credit him for but three years where we won nothing, played some of the worst football in the league and ended up with Ole isolating majority of the squad doesn't really paint a legacy at all. His literal job was to bring success back to the club and he failed. Couldn't even bring about a philosophy or style of football. In most aspects of a managerial job, Ole failed and at any other club, he'd have been given the boot after the Burnley defeat in 2019.

He also convinced many people Ronaldo was at fault. Holy feck.
 

VidaRed

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solskjaer will always be a hero. his managerial time at us isnt has bad as you thing. he got us playing football after jose! he gave kids a chance! majority of his signings were ok. he got the feel good factor back for a while. we improved oved every season. unfortunately he couldnt take us any further. I and along with many red will always love and thank him.
Which kids from the academy broke through during ole's reign ? I can't think of one.

Before you say greenwood let me inform you that it was jose that got him training with the first team and handed him his first contract.
 

Maluco

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Why is it so hard for some people to accept that he isn’t a good manager? You just had to watch the game and the randomness of performances to know that.

He might be a nice guy and he might have brought in some good players, but he isn’t a manager, and it’s laughable that he was in charge of one of the biggest clubs in the world for 3 years.

There was no progress in the pitch. It was very good footballers under a poor coach and sometimes that was enough to win.

He isn’t a manager and he doesn’t have a legacy as one. It was a waste of time after the first 5 months. We need to accept that and move on, because we need to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
 

VidaRed

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Why is it so hard for some people to accept that he isn’t a good manager? You just had to watch the game and the randomness of performances to know that.
When people buy into something lock stock and barrel they double down in there beliefs when presented with evidence that there initial belief was wrong.

This is evidenced by the qanon circus going on, despite so many predictions going down the shitter the faithful are still at it.

Basically its comes down to denying facts to save face than accept you were an idiot.

This is well documented.
 

Jack Landers

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His legacy as manager is the worst premier league manager in history of the PL and the worst Utd manager ever! He had the 3rd most expansive squad in history of world football. He had the blind support of his staff, the board, players and the fans for the majority of his time and did/won nothing. He never ever learn from his mistakes and keep repeating the same mistakes expecting different outcome dispite people spelling it out for him. Clearly in misery and out of his depth majority of the time yet still won't give way despite saying he wants the best for the club. His actions only showed that he would rather live his dream to manage the club (at the club's expanse) than see the club succeed.

However, his legacy as a player is spotless and will forever be!