To be fair, I think Pep and Klopp's prolonged success goes hand in hand with their tendency to stay out of drama with other managers. Fiery personalities like Mancini, Mourinho and Conte are less well-suited to maintaining a healthy atmosphere in a dressing room.
Souness on Sky
- Thread starter FujiVice
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Something that should be avoided now in terms of saying but he's been doing punditry now for 10+ years using these phrases and terms so it's natural that you'll sometimes say it without meaning it. Needs nothing more than reminding not to say it in future and everyone can move on.
Exactly. I think it's also fair to say that aggression isn't as big a part of the women's game so it makes sense to emphasise something unique about the men's game the way he did.
It doesn't mean the men's game is superior or the women's game sucks, just that they have some subtle differences (like less showy instances of masculinity for example
)The problem with the phrase is it's outdated often associated with sexism and toxic masculinity in certain contexts. In an era where women's football is starting to be taken more seriously such phrases need to be quickly rooted out, IMO.
Well it's not technically a mans game. But I get the sentiment. The mens version of the game is better.
This is it basically. Yes, it's the male version of a game so saying man to man in certain contexts is fine but saying 'man's game' etc. has connotations which we as a society should be progressing from rather than reverting to.
Careful mate, you're not allowed to say these things out loud anymore.
Is it? I think it is people being far too sensitive. These people need a hobby and to stop analysing things so deeply.
Besides, do people forget that 'Man' is also a word to define someone as an adult? Boy is what you call a child. That is what 'Men's game' has always meant - it was about people not being childish and crying over every little nudge or whiff of air they feel.
The world has gone mad.
Imagine taking issue with Souness using the word man when speaking about a men's football match.
It's pathetic and probably counter productive for those who take issue with it.
I've got no issue with things that need to be modernised and altered where there is a need but some things are so over the top it just turns you off whatever the message is that tries to come across.
The Welsh government refusing to use the word female in advice about periods etc - some of it is just bonkers.
Imagine taking issue with Souness using the word man when speaking about a men's football match.
It's pathetic and probably counter productive for those who take issue with it.
I've got no issue with things that need to be modernised and altered where there is a need but some things are so over the top it just turns you off whatever the message is that tries to come across.
The Welsh government refusing to use the word female in advice about periods etc - some of it is just bonkers.
He's a knobber, but I've said it before, and I'll say it again, he knows the sartorial value of a well-made suit and how to wear one.
Exactly.
If Carney didn’t like what Souness said she should have said something, indeed she had the perfect platform to do so. Instead all she did was mildly smirk at the camera.
Tbh, she seemed completely out of her depth sat between those two.
Tbh, she seemed completely out of her depth sat between those two.
I think there's a huge and clear difference between Souness's comments yesterday which IMO are harmless and I don't even think he should apologise for, and for example what actual, idiotic dinosaurs like Keys and Gray said (and did in terms of inappropriate behaviour) on the same platform 11 and a half years ago.
Now that was clearly disgraceful sexism (the idea that it was 'banter' was farcical given the angry, ranting tone), and they were rightfully shown the door (well actually Keys resigned I think after Gray was sacked).
I guess purely within the realms of men's football though, there are plenty of people like Souness, like Troy Deeney etc. who have the mindset that a 'real man' enjoys a physical battle and confrontation. So the issue in this case isn't sexism (false allegations of sexism are very damaging when there are unfortunately plenty of genuine cases of sexism to instead focus on and call out), but attitudes re how male players playing men's football should behave and conduct themselves in general.
Now that was clearly disgraceful sexism (the idea that it was 'banter' was farcical given the angry, ranting tone), and they were rightfully shown the door (well actually Keys resigned I think after Gray was sacked).
I guess purely within the realms of men's football though, there are plenty of people like Souness, like Troy Deeney etc. who have the mindset that a 'real man' enjoys a physical battle and confrontation. So the issue in this case isn't sexism (false allegations of sexism are very damaging when there are unfortunately plenty of genuine cases of sexism to instead focus on and call out), but attitudes re how male players playing men's football should behave and conduct themselves in general.
It's that - we've got our game back - thing, that sets a mood for how some people heard it. Football's been around all summer, but it sounded like he thought it had gone missing.
Given what he followed up with its clear that what he was really saying is that he's missed the hair pulling and the after match arm wrestling competition.
Given what he followed up with its clear that what he was really saying is that he's missed the hair pulling and the after match arm wrestling competition.
"We've got our football back.. men at it, blow for blow.."
I'm usually less than sympathetic when people get offended by this sort of thing and it's (yet) another storm in a teacup situation for me, but it's hard not to take some satisfaction from it affecting Souness I must admit. Whether you agree with the outrage or not, it goes to show how self-absorbed the guy is that he would consider that an acceptable thing to say given the company in the room and the events of the Summer. It wasn't just Carney pulling a face, Carragher didn't know where to look either
I'm usually less than sympathetic when people get offended by this sort of thing and it's (yet) another storm in a teacup situation for me, but it's hard not to take some satisfaction from it affecting Souness I must admit. Whether you agree with the outrage or not, it goes to show how self-absorbed the guy is that he would consider that an acceptable thing to say given the company in the room and the events of the Summer. It wasn't just Carney pulling a face, Carragher didn't know where to look either
Is there another video clip I've missed?
Because if it's just the one in the OP, he quite clearly doesn't "literally say football is a man's game".
He says:
He's talking about a full blooded, hard fought game between two men's teams playing men's football. There is nothing he says there that degrades women's football in any way, because he wasn't talking about or comparing between men's and women's football. He's clearly comparing between how the referee has managed this game and how games have been refereed in the past.
Yeh, it's a weird phase that will pass I'm sure! The women's football was really entertaining, in isolation it's a great game! For me it just doesn't compare to the mens version, I'm sure the vast majority of people believe that, but whether they'll say it out loud is another matter!
Well with the internet and a smartphones he’ll never run out of options.
The woman’s version is literally called “women’s super league “ if teams had mix gender then I’d understand but now I don’t see a problem with “the womens game” or “the man’s game” type of language when referring to each.
Yes each will have its own characteristics. Men football will get more aggressive and tempers will flare.
Yeah I agree, that is annoying
Reminds me of certain newspapers that give you a small story without actually telling you what sport it is about. Usually you can work it out during the article but I've finished some and am still none the wiser.
I'm getting that on a t-shirt
He's grand.
He actually just said 'foreigners.. eh can you say foreigners these days?' on talkSPORT. He seemed to be genuinely asking.
He's an older man who understandably isn't up to date with modern inclusive terminology. It doesn't mean he has hate or disdain in his heart for anyone.
Wait until you're that age.
He actually just said 'foreigners.. eh can you say foreigners these days?' on talkSPORT. He seemed to be genuinely asking.
He's an older man who understandably isn't up to date with modern inclusive terminology. It doesn't mean he has hate or disdain in his heart for anyone.
Wait until you're that age.
Not sure where to post this but given Souness involvement, here seems ok...
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Meh, as as female, don't find anything wrong with it. Think he just wants to see fight, some toughness, like he used to be, not these soft ballers who fix their hair every 5,6 seconds. But today you have to be politicaly correct, right. Can't say anything anymore without finger being pointed at you.
Now that I said that, what about this: Anyone noticed Jamie's hand movements at the begining?
Now that I said that, what about this: Anyone noticed Jamie's hand movements at the begining?
Exactly. God forbid common sense prevails in these situations. If half of our fathers/grandfathers were on live television these days, they'd be crucified.
Most annoying part is that if there wasn't a female pundit in the studio, nobody would bat an eyelid at Souness' comments and rightfully so. Perfect indictment of people jumping on the "offensive" bandwagon rather than actually taking issue with it from a moral point of view.
That's true. He has a fine tailor and rocks a good suit.
They still shout "Man on!" in the women's games. This over-reaction is really getting very tedious. Considering the amount of sexist terms that women still use against men and the negative images/stereotyping in ads and promotions that are still prevalent and outdated maternity/paternity laws, they really know how to sweat the small stuff!
at the distinct lack of reaction except for everyone rushing in to say "Souness did nothing wrong, it's a mans game for men FFS"Spot on. Excellent analysis here and this whole thing is blown out of proportion.
Blowing this simple remark out of proportion is how you empower the crazies on the other side to portray you like an oversensitive idiot.
Just the fact I have to agree with Souness on something makes me annoyed at these oversensitive prima donnas.
Just the fact I have to agree with Souness on something makes me annoyed at these oversensitive prima donnas.
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Noticed they were calling it player of the match instead of man of the match on TV over the weekend, when did this change and should I be outraged?
Pogbas gone so he's turned his attention to women it seems
embarrassing thread.
Seems to just be this week's edition of the online purity spiral. Football coverage is in a real good place if this is the best target for a Twitter pile on.
Well said. Sick of this bull shit. If she doesn't like what was said then feck off and don't come back.
Your welcome.
To be fair to her, there's a chance she was just laughing at the innuendo, which women are well able to do when chatting among groups of men. This idea that she's some fragile thing that men in football have to tiptoe around is embarrassing and patronising to women. We have to continue to develop the womens game, but there will still be mens football with male commentators and male pundits who are qualified to speak on the competitiveness of male elite sport. It is not controversial to maintain mens football and appreciate the things that male athletes bring to it and its patronising women to assume any conversation that doesnt bring up womens football is inherently sexist.
He’s referring to the Pep Klopp love in who finish a game by going down on one another.
Tuchel and Conte had a bit of fire and needle, it’s great to see.
Tuchel and Conte had a bit of fire and needle, it’s great to see.
I'm afraid I'm too much of a dinosaur, I have zero interest in women's football, it's garbage and I'd rather watch paint dry. In my defence, I feel the same way about league of Ireland soccer - for what it's worth, before I'm labelled sexiest.
Im fine however with women being in the studio in a pundit role following a male PL match, whilst they are less qualified than Neville and co to comment on mens PL football (they have they never played in PL) squirming and making faces such as she did would annoy me. This is only a story due to her reaction, not anything Souness said. Perhaps you are right however and she was only laughing at the innuendo, hats off to her if that was the case.
Next week he'll be in trouble again for using the phrase 'man marking'
Christ
Christ