Southgate set Rashford and Sancho up for a fall.

[dal]

Maybe he chose 3 black players as the final 3 penalty kick takers to allow a black player to have the glory and create even more unity.

The fact that I even have to consider this is stupid, I mean I doubt it but I can see the angle.

 

[Andycoleno9]

That is rubbish. Saka taking 5th pen was a mistake but Sancho and Rashy sub was spot on (at that moment).
And what does that mean that they were "too cold"? They did their warm up, made a few runs in that few minutes. It is enough for taking a penalty. Penalty is a skill. They both know how to take a penalty and they both surely are better choices than players who were subbed off.
Also, for those who claim that they should have been subbed on earlier; one minute is a lot in football. So playing those players out of position 4 or 5 minute could have been costly.

To sum up; those were a good subs but they missed. It happens. Nobody to blame there.

 

[El Zoido]

People are thinking way too much in to it. They took penalties in training, and these were the best five. Absolutely not the way to decide who should take them, alongside substituting them on with a minute to go, Southgate royally fecked this up.

 

[Terminator]

That is rubbish. Saka taking 5th pen was a mistake but Sancho and Rashy sub was spot on (at that moment).
And what does that mean that they were "too cold"? They did their warm up, made a few runs in that few minutes. It is enough for taking a penalty. Penalty is skill. They both know how to take a penalty and they both surely are better choices than players who were subbed off.
Also, for those who claim that they should have been subbed on earlier; one minute is a lot in football. So playing those players out of position 4 or 5 minute could have been costly.

To sum up; those were a good subs but they missed. It happens. Nobody to blame there.

They have to be up to speed with the current match intensity. Warming up for even 1 hour before means feck all if they are not able to experience the intensity and flow of the game.

And penalties are not just skill, it's handling pressure as well. Easing players into the situation will calm the nerves instead of just throwing them out to take the pen. I'm certain Rashford/Sancho bury most pens in the corners in training, it's not a question of skill.

 

[Ixion]

In his Twitter post Rashford said "A penalty was all I'd been asked to contribute for the team". I think it's underestimated how much extra pressure that adds, his penalty clearly showed he was overthinking it. It's a shame as he looked like he was going to come on for the last 10 minutes and ended up just standing there till the last time the ball went out of touch, no doubt overthinking everything, nerves building up.

 

[padzilla]

More than penalties, i think this is the main issue that led to England losing. With the likes of Belligham, Grealish and Henderson on the bench it was too cowardly a set up from England. Saka is the only questionable choice on penalties anyways but to just give up the midfield was a huge tactical error.

At the end of the day there was a thin margin between winning and losing, it's important England don't regress though like they did after Italia 90 Bellingham is a great prospect in the centre, not unlike Man United England shouldn't be starting games with two defensive midfielders in practically every game.
Those are underdog tactics, An England midfield with one of Rice/ Phillips playing behind Grealish/ Bellingham or the other of Rice / Phillips or Henderson would surely give them more attacking prowess and not concede the impetus to the opposition, watching England sit back against a Scottish team who they should have been imposing themselves on was particularly bizarre and it very nearly resulted in a defeat.
Teams like England and United should line out with two defensive midfielders when they are away to major opposition in a cauldron like stadium atmosphere full of partisan fans, not each and every game regardless of the opponents.

 

[Jeppers7]

Would be interesting to know what the thoughts of Sancho and Rashford were about not being trusted to play the game, their thought process through the 120 minutes, the days before the final and the difference in their thoughts from the start of this tournament to the end of the tournament. Then consider the impact those thoughts had on their feelings the days before the final, at the start of the match, how they felt whilst thinking ‘I could win us this’, when Saka was put on before them, when Henderson was put on before them, at halftime in extra time…..how are they feeling when they aren’t even getting on at that stage….

How are they feeling coming on with a minute to go in extra time just to take a penalty? Embarrassed? Angry? These are top players, young players and will have big egos to get where they have in the sport.

It’s foolish to believe this culmination of what must have been a very demoralising tournament for both these players (plus Grealish and Foden) resulting in not being trusted to go and win England the game….but go and score me a penalty…would have no impact on their thoughts throughout the weeks and their feelings during the game. By the time I stood on that sideline waiting to come on I’d have felt totally humiliated.

I believe this is what Rashford is referring to in his statement yesterday. For Southgate to then hang Rashford and Sancho out to dry by absolving Saka publicly is just terrible man management, I’d hope for his sake he realised what he was doing there and had a point…otherwise he’s just brain dead stupid.

Footballers are human beings, even if they are in an elite percentile and used to handling pressure. It’s more than pressure. It’s a process of thoughts and the feelings they generate and the impact that has on someone’s ability to then perform.

The question is, is Southgate extremely clever or brain dead stupid?

 

[Pexbo]

In his Twitter post Rashford said "A penalty was all I'd been asked to contribute for the team". I think it's underestimated how much extra pressure that adds, his penalty clearly showed he was overthinking it. It's a shame as he looked like he was going to come on for the last 10 minutes and ended up just standing there till the last time the ball went out of touch, no doubt overthinking everything, nerves building up.

I said this during the match:

Can you imagine the pressure on Rashford and Sancho now when it comes to penalties. They have no other role so they are expected to score.

He’s just lumped a nation worth of pressure on the shoulders of Rashford and Sancho. He’s a moron.

I really can’t get over the stupidity of deliberately waiting until almost the last kick of the game (despite having 3 throw ins in the minutes leading up to it while they were stripped off ready to come on) before dropping two players barely in their 20s in with the sole responsibility of taking a penalty in the biggest penalty shootout in the nation’s history. No time to adjust to the situation, no time to get a feel for the ball, no chance to contribute in a positive way and avoid the penalty shootout


It was genuinely the worst act of management I have ever seen in my 34 years on this earth.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Would be interesting to know what the thoughts of Sancho and Rashford were about not being trusted to play the game, their thought process through the 120 minutes, the days before the final and the difference in their thoughts from the start of this tournament to the end of the tournament. Then consider the impact those thoughts had on their feelings the days before the final, at the start of the match, how they felt whilst thinking ‘I could win us this’, when Saka was put on before them, when Henderson was put on before them, at halftime in extra time…..how are they feeling when they aren’t even getting on at that stage….

How are they feeling coming on with a minute to go in extra time just to take a penalty? Embarrassed? Angry? These are top players, young players and will have big egos to get where they have in the sport.

It’s foolish to believe this culmination of what must have been a very demoralising tournament for both these players (plus Grealish and Foden) resulting in not being trusted to go and win England the game….but go and score me a penalty…would have no impact on their thoughts throughout the weeks and their feelings during the game. By the time I stood on that sideline waiting to come on I’d have felt totally humiliated.

I believe this is what Rashford is referring to in his statement yesterday. For Southgate to then hang Rashford and Sancho out to dry by absolving Saka publicly is just terrible man management, I’d hope for his sake he realised what he was doing there and had a point…otherwise he’s just brain dead stupid.

Footballers are human beings, even if they are in an elite percentile and used to handling pressure. It’s more than pressure. It’s a process of thoughts and the feelings they generate and the impact that has on someone’s ability to then perform.

The question is, is Southgate extremely clever or brain dead stupid?

How did Southgate hung them out to dry? Genuine question. Did he only offer support for Saka? If true, then he's being really shitty.

 

[redshaw]

What's also crazy is England has talked about getting penalties right for 30 years yet we've somehow found new ways to mess up the process.

 

[Jeppers7]

How did Southgate hung them out to dry? Genuine question. Did he only offer support for Saka? If true, then he's being really shitty.

He gave a conference mentioned all three by name but went on to single out Saka and pour massive praise on him for his performances, him as a person, how he has lit up the tournament and put smiles on the faces of everyone in the country…..then nothing for the other two.

 

[romufc]

I said this during the match:





I really can’t get over the stupidity of deliberately waiting until almost the last kick of the game (despite having 3 throw ins in the minutes leading up to it while they were stripped off ready to come on) before dropping two players barely in their 20s in with the sole responsibility of taking a penalty in the biggest penalty shootout in the nation’s history. No time to adjust to the situation, no time to get a feel for the ball, no chance to contribute in a positive way and avoid the penalty shootout


It was genuinely the worst act of management I have ever seen in my 34 years on this earth.

Exactly this. You are bringing on players in a final for less than 2 minutes, not had a kick all game and expect them to take a penalty?

Not only this but what does it show from the manager that the players are not trusted to play even 10 minutes?

He has Sterling on for the whole 120 minutes, full of confidence and didn't take one, same with Luke Shaw.

Such poor management, look at the way Mancini managed the game.

We all talked up this squad how good of a bench we have, what is the point of having a bench and not using it?

 

[Desert Eagle]

At the end of the day there was a thin margin between winning and losing, it's important England don't regress though like they did after Italia 90 Bellingham is a great prospect in the centre, not unlike Man United England shouldn't be starting games with two defensive midfielders in practically every game.
Those are underdog tactics, An England midfield with one of Rice/ Phillips playing behind Grealish/ Bellingham or the other of Rice / Phillips or Henderson would surely give them more attacking prowess and not concede the impetus to the opposition, watching England sit back against a Scottish team who they should have been imposing themselves on was particularly bizarre and it very nearly resulted in a defeat.
Teams like England and United should line out with two defensive midfielders when they are away to major opposition in a cauldron like stadium atmosphere full of partisan fans, not each and every game regardless of the opponents.

Agreed

 

[FattyFooty]

Everything from the 3rd penalty was shocking.

Southgate.

Rashfords run up?

Saka, it was very clear for the last hour that he was not ready for this.

I think Southgate might wanted Saka to be the hero, i think Southgate ses something in him most people dont.

 

[Damon1559]

To sum up; those were a good subs but they missed. It happens. Nobody to blame there.

You don't play much football do you? It's not about being physically warmed up, it's mental also. It's vital to get a feel for the ball before you can settle into a match properly.

 

[Foxbatt]

Lots of issues. When Italy was pushing forward he should have brought on Rashford. He is quicker and used to playing in a counter attacking team. Sterling is not.
Saka should have never been selected to take a penalty. No matter how many he has put away in practice.
Anderson scored in the CL final coming only for the penalties. Rashford would have scored that 9 times out of 10. But players who are playing regularly should have been nominated first.

 

[Andycoleno9]

You don't play much football do you? It's not about being physically warmed up, it's mental also. It's vital to get a feel for the ball before you can settle into a match properly.

And how much is that? So, what is the right answer here?
They both are better options than Walker and Rice. Right?
So it is about timing then? Do you play football? Do you realise that both of them played out of position (sort of) that 2 minutes? Do you know how dangerous would be to put them 4,5 or 6 minutes earlier? Especially in game like this and in situation where Italy was dominant.

So, what is the answer here? What Southgate should have done regarding penalties (except not placing Saka as 5th)?

 

[nojcarter]

I do wonder whether or not you should be able to select anyone from the starting X1 and subs used or not to take a penalty after extra time. Feel it would improve games as managers wouldn't feel they have to keep a player on who is having shocker and emptying the bench late in extra time to bring on penalty takers would be removed. Maybe more onus on winning the game in normal time

 

[weetee]

And how much is that? So, what is the right answer here?
They both are better options than Walker and Rice. Right?
So it is about timing then? Do you play football? Do you realise that both of them played out of position (sort of) that 2 minutes? Do you know how dangerous would be to put them 4,5 or 6 minutes earlier? Especially in game like this and in situation where Italy was dominant.

So, what is the answer here? What Southgate should have done regarding penalties (except not placing Saka as 5th)?

First of all he should have played them both more often in the tourney for starters. Make them feel not like leftovers the whole time just to drag them into the biggest limelight possible at the very last second - there was little reason to give them only 80+ minutes (Rashford) and 90+ minutes (Sancho) within that tournament. That's the major flaw in my opinion, right next to be playing that defensively when you're kinda afraid to go into penalties because of your squad. Especially when playing at home against a good but not great side.

Then it's completely debatable if it's more dangerous to have say one player (Rashford for example) play out of position for say 15min in ET (or just 10 or 7mins.) or have two subs right before having a corner kick against you (no-go actually) like how it was actually done.
Walker and Rice being inferior isn't set in stone either. Or say Henderson who was playing instead of Rice. Henderson is a very experienced player and should be a viable option per se (as Walker should be). Maguire, Bonucci both scored their pen so it's not just about being technically better but having the composure and experience. Grealish was well in form that game too. Sure, those players can miss too but that's always the risk. Kane missed against Denmark right before too so there are no guarantees anyway.

Imho, bringing in both was ok in general (despite the treatment during the tourney and during the final) and having Rashford being third in order is ok as well but once he missed I don't think Sancho should have followed since the plan with the "cold pen takers" already failed and put extra pressure on him. Let Grealish take that one, or Stones or Sterling (or Henderson..) or Walker. Ccombined with the mind boggling decision of having Saka shoot his very first penalty on pro-level as 5th it puts Southgate into a corner he can't come out since it just highlights his mis-management of Sancho and Rashford during the whole tourney.

 

[Tincanalley]

No shit. Rashford miss sent the pressure through the roof and Italy going ahead only added to it.

There was a vid posted by an England fan of the shootout shot from his seat in the top tier. It shows sporting behaviour by English supporters (even polite applause for Italian scorers ) at the start. You can feel the tension build, the explosion as Maguire scores, the anger and frustration at the misses. Then the end…. Eerie silence, and the Italian area behind the opposite goal just a sea of fists pumping and flailing and waving.

 

[RuudTom83]

I would say the players picked to take them were fine, it was just the order they were placed in and how Sancho and Rashford were given literally seconds on the pitch before the final whistle.

Give those 3 a bloody chance ffs! have Saka in the middle of the pack (taker no.3) and give the 2 subs at least the second half of ET to get up to speed with the game and feel for the ball.

I know Gareth didn't want to take any defensive players off but Grealish and Sterling didn't take a penalty in the end so sub them off for Rashford/Sancho and the balance would be the same for ET.

 

[ChaddyP]

Rashford and Sancho are experienced enough in clutch moments. Especially Rashford who took the worst penalty of the lot. Saka was definitely put in the worst position being the fifth taker. Should have been second.

Rashford and Sancho missing is just how it goes. They take pens all the time under pressure.

 

[Ali Dia]

That is rubbish. Saka taking 5th pen was a mistake but Sancho and Rashy sub was spot on (at that moment).
And what does that mean that they were "too cold"? They did their warm up, made a few runs in that few minutes. It is enough for taking a penalty. Penalty is a skill. They both know how to take a penalty and they both surely are better choices than players who were subbed off.
Also, for those who claim that they should have been subbed on earlier; one minute is a lot in football. So playing those players out of position 4 or 5 minute could have been costly.

To sum up; those were a good subs but they missed. It happens. Nobody to blame there.

This. The young player narrative also doesn’t particularly wash with me. Sancho and Rashford are probably the two highest paid forwards in that squad at club level. They should be able to hit a penalty if the manager needs them to. They missed, anyone can miss, you move on.

 

[Tony Palumbo]

No matter what Southgates orders were, as captain, Kane should have stepped up and told Saka this isn’t the time for him right now. And told Sterling or Grealish to get marching to the box.

Utter shambles from Southgate putting all that pressure on the 19 year old.