Spain/Morocco massacre migrants

[DeGea’sFeet]

Surprised this isn’t receiving more attention.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/29/morocco/spain-horrific-migrant-deaths-melilla-border

Reading about it on various articles it’s actually quit disgusting. The migrants were killed on the Spanish controlled side by apparently Moroccan police/officials. Is this an EU state using a 3rd party to commit human rights atrocities?

 

[utdalltheway]

Steady on.
They were killed as perhaps 2,000 of them tried to scale the fence to illegally get into Spanish territory.
I don’t know if they were killed directly by the Moroccan forces but in the chaos it’s unfortunate that so many died.

Tbh I’m torn of course. I hate to see people die needlessly but they can’t just open the gates and let them in, or let them climb over the fence without pushing them back.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Steady on.
They were killed as perhaps 2,000 of them tried to scale the fence to illegally get into Spanish territory.
I don’t know if they were killed directly by the Moroccan forces but in the chaos it’s unfortunate that so many died.

Tbh I’m torn of course. I hate to see people die needlessly but they can’t just open the gates and let them in, or let them climb over the fence without pushing them back.

deleted what I replied as have seen videos. Appalling stuff. In the videos Spanish police are definitely there by the dead bodies.

Here is a link to one video. It’s not people getting beaten back.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

What the hell is wrong with those cops? If people wonder why the hashtag #acab means something in this world, you can now add that to the long list of reasons. Always going after the weak, the sick, the minorities, and anyone in a rightful position to demand justice.

 

[utdalltheway]

There’s no excuse for brutality but there’s also no reason for south Sudanese to be in morrocco trying to enter a Spanish territory illegally.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

There’s no excuse for brutality but there’s also no reason for south Sudanese to be in morrocco trying to enter a Spanish territory illegally.

You don’t think law enforcement should be held to a higher standard, and you think beating people ( who are already subdued ) to death is the same as trying to enter a country illegally?

 

[The Boy]

There’s no excuse for brutality but there’s also no reason for south Sudanese to be in morrocco trying to enter a Spanish territory illegally.

Sorry but this is a ridiculous comparison

 

[utdalltheway]

I feel terrible that those poor people died but I also know, as you do, that they shouldn’t be anywhere near that place.
There’s no excuse for brutality though.

edit: I’m out.

 

[Gehrman]

There’s no excuse for brutality but there’s also no reason for south Sudanese to be in morrocco trying to enter a Spanish territory illegally.

From their perspective there is a good reason for trying to illegally enter a country. South Sudan is totally marred by civil war and poverty.

 

[11101]

Horrible but the video of police hitting them isn't the cause of the deaths, something else unseen did that. It needs to be investigated but because its Morocco it won't be.

I'm also not sure how it can be blamed on Spain. They will have agreements with Morocco where they get penalised if people cross illegally, its entirely on Morocco how they enforce that.

 

[maniak]

European countries outsourcing the killing to mercenary regimes? I refuse to believe it.

 

[Eyepopper]

There’s no excuse for brutality but there’s also no reason for south Sudanese to be in morrocco trying to enter a Spanish territory illegally.

Reads very much like you putting forward an excuse for brutality to be honest.

 

[RedPed]

Just a shame that no-one else will get the Ukrainian treatment.

 

[MadMike]

Do we know if the deaths are because of police brutality or because of accidents (crush or people falling off fences). I can’t find much.

 

[TwoSheds]

Do we know if the deaths are because of police brutality or because of accidents (crush or people falling off fences). I can’t find much.

It's a fair bet looking at some of the videos that the police are responsible for at least some deaths. Beating hundreds of potentially sick, tired people while they lie on the ground is very likely to cause some deaths.

 

[)_(]

Horrible but the video of police hitting them isn't the cause of the deaths, something else unseen did that. It needs to be investigated but because its Morocco it won't be.

I'm also not sure how it can be blamed on Spain. They will have agreements with Morocco where they get penalised if people cross illegally, its entirely on Morocco how they enforce that.

Come on now, the EU absolutely knows what they're doing outsourcing this shit to other countries.

 

[VeevaVee]

No idea if the Guardia Civil are involved but they don’t give a feck about murdering people and the government does everything to protect them.

Whether they were involved or not, coupled with the comments from the PM, it’s obvious they’re trying to protect whoever was involved as per, by blaming human traffickers for it despite the Sudanese who managed to get through saying there were none.

 

[Denis79]

Reads very much like you putting forward an excuse for brutality to be honest.

He is.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

"Moroccan and Spanish authorities said migrants had attacked border guards with weapons when trying to storm the fence migrants who tried to storm the border had attacked frontier guards with sticks, knives and acid.
Authorities said the disaster occurred after migrants attempted to storm a fence into the Melilla enclave, with some dying in a crush after what authorities called a stampede, and others falling from a fence."

That's their version.

 

[Adisa]

Just a shame that no-one else will get the Ukrainian treatment.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Come on now, the EU absolutely knows what they're doing outsourcing this shit to other countries.

The EU is behind this?

Seems like a bit of a stretch…

 

[)_(]

The EU is behind this?

Seems like a bit of a stretch…

The EU has made deals with a number of unsavoury countries to keep refugees out. Don't know if that's the case here but it's in line with EU policy. The idea that it's purely on other countries who are doing the dirty work is an easy way to shift the blame as if the EU is an entirely innocent actor in this.

 

[maniak]

The EU has made deals with a number of unsavoury countries to keep refugees out. Don't know if that's the case here but it's in line with EU policy. The idea that it's purely on other countries who are doing the dirty work is an easy way to shift the blame as if the EU is an entirely innocent actor in this.

In this case I don't know if it was the EU, but definitely Spain accepted Morocco's deal that they would "deal" with the migrants issue in return for Spain to abandon its neutrality regarding Western Sahara's independence. Spain now recognizes it as Moroccan territory. Basically Morocco threw wave after wave of desperate migrants at Spain's border a la Belarus a couple of months back, but in this case Spain caved in.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

"Moroccan and Spanish authorities said migrants had attacked border guards with weapons when trying to storm the fence migrants who tried to storm the border had attacked frontier guards with sticks, knives and acid.
Authorities said the disaster occurred after migrants attempted to storm a fence into the Melilla enclave, with some dying in a crush after what authorities called a stampede, and others falling from a fence."

That's their version.

If the thing about knives & acid was true there’d be more dead migrants and cause of death would be gun shot .

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The EU has made deals with a number of unsavoury countries to keep refugees out. Don't know if that's the case here but it's in line with EU policy. The idea that it's purely on other countries who are doing the dirty work is an easy way to shift the blame as if the EU is an entirely innocent actor in this.

Really? Evidence for that?

You do realise that countries like Spain are independent states capable of making their own decisions?

 

[2cents]

Really? Evidence for that?

The EU-Turkey deal is quite well known -https://eu.rescue.org/article/what-eu-turkey-deal

 

[2cents]

Report on the EU-Libya arrangement - https://www.euractiv.com/section/africa/news/amnesty-slams-five-years-of-eu-libya-migrant-deal/

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The EU-Turkey deal is quite well known -https://eu.rescue.org/article/what-eu-turkey-deal

Not well know enough for me to have heard of it, evidently!

Still though. It’s a massive leap to blame an unsavoury incident at a border between a Spanish territory and Morocca as EU policy. It’s not as though what happened was some sort of official policy anyway.

 

[carvajal]

The movement of sub-Saharans near Ceuta and Melilla depends on the Moroccan police. That they get there and attack the fence depends on their political interests on many occasions.
Spain has made concessions to Morocco with Western Sahara (in detriment of the relationship with Algeria) so in this occasion I´d say that was due to logistics errors(their police came in Melilla to bring them back.They wouldn't have done it in other occasions) since they know
thousands of sub-Saharans are usually camped on Mount Gurugú (next to Melilla)

 

[Pintu]

Not well know enough for me to have heard of it, evidently!

Still though. It’s a massive leap to blame an unsavoury incident at a border between a Spanish territory and Morocca as EU policy. It’s not as though what happened was some sort of official policy anyway.

It might not be an official policy, but it is clearly tolerated once you delegate the job to Morocco, not a country known for humanitarian policing. What Spain does on EU external borders is de facto done on behalf of the EU, and any arrangement with Morocco is clearly something the EU has accepted.

 

[berbatrick]

From 2017, this prediction being borne out in this thread itself



The specific part is from 1:05 to 1:50

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Not well know enough for me to have heard of it, evidently!

Still though. It’s a massive leap to blame an unsavoury incident at a border between a Spanish territory and Morocca as EU policy. It’s not as though what happened was some sort of official policy anyway.

Can we really go so far as to label it an unsavoury incident though? Bit strong in my estimation.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Can we really go so far as to label it an unsavoury incident though? Bit strong in my estimation.

I’d say “unsavoury intentions” is a bit weak. They allowed Moroccan officials to act in Spanish territory and commit gross crimes, the videos also show the Spanish participating in those crimes once the ‘incident’ was under control.

It usually causes huge political tension, even wars, when a country’s law enforcement acts in another countries territory.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Not well know enough for me to have heard of it, evidently!

Still though. It’s a massive leap to blame an unsavoury incident at a border between a Spanish territory and Morocca as EU policy. It’s not as though what happened was some sort of official policy anyway.

Like someone mentioned. Most likely unofficially accepted, although I think privately the EU will be talking to the Spanish and telling them that things like this are bad PR.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

The movement of sub-Saharans near Ceuta and Melilla depends on the Moroccan police. That they get there and attack the fence depends on their political interests on many occasions.
Spain has made concessions to Morocco with Western Sahara (in detriment of the relationship with Algeria) so in this occasion I´d say that was due to logistics errors(their police came in Melilla to bring them back.They wouldn't have done it in other occasions) since they know
thousands of sub-Saharans are usually camped on Mount Gurugú (next to Melilla)

I was in Morocco just before covid. Not as far north as that thou. I noticed groups of migrants, not threatening in any way, usually trying to raise money by traffic lights etc to go further north.

 

[maniak]

From 2017, this prediction being borne out in this thread itself



The specific part is from 1:05 to 1:50

No doubt, the future looks grim.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

From 2017, this prediction being borne out in this thread itself



The specific part is from 1:05 to 1:50

Listened to the 1:05 to 1:50… while I don’t agree with the redistribution of wealth part. The “these are not real people” is so true you even see that in some peoples reaction on here and the attempts to mitigate or rationalise it.

 

[11101]

Come on now, the EU absolutely knows what they're doing outsourcing this shit to other countries.

Yes, asking their neighbours to keep migrants away from their borders, and paying them/making concessions in return. There's really nothing wrong with that. It's the Moroccans you need to turn your focus on, not Spain.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Yes, asking their neighbours to keep migrants away from their borders, and paying them/making concessions in return. There's really nothing wrong with that. It's the Moroccans you need to turn your focus on, not Spain.

You’re ignoring the fact that the atrocity took place in the Spanish controlled side and the video shows Spanish police assaulting migrants.

 

[The Original]

Yes, asking their neighbours to keep migrants away from their borders, and paying them/making concessions in return. There's really nothing wrong with that. It's the Moroccans you need to turn your focus on, not Spain.

Same argument the large companies can use when they have children working in their outsourced factories on another continent.

If you pay someone to do a job for you, you have a responsibility to ensure that they do it to the same ethical standards as yourself.