Spain/Morocco massacre migrants

11101

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You’re ignoring the fact that the atrocity took place in the Spanish controlled side and the video shows Spanish police assaulting migrants.
The video doesn't clearly show anything and it definitely doesn't show any of the deaths.
 

DeGea’sFeet

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The video doesn't clearly show anything and it definitely doesn't show any of the deaths.
I must have imagined part where a police officer was beating a migrant with his baton and another threw a body across the pile of bodies that were on the floor. Considering thousands of others saw it it must be “ a foli a mill”
 

DJ Jeff

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Migration from the southern hemisphere into the EU is already at world historic levels. What planet are people who think the EU as a bloc is opposed to this beyond trying to limit the already insane levels from going to extremely insane levels living on
 

DeGea’sFeet

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New video. Clearly shows a Spanish flag on the back of a uniform. Also another migrant being assaulted. Can’t get more clear then this.
 

Kanu

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2000???? There's no excuse for that wow. Illegal or not, they're still (desperate) people.
 

carvajal

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I was in Morocco just before covid. Not as far north as that thou. I noticed groups of migrants, not threatening in any way, usually trying to raise money by traffic lights etc to go further north.
Illegal migrants
 

Forevergiggs1

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New video. Clearly shows a Spanish flag on the back of a uniform. Also another migrant being assaulted. Can’t get more clear then this.
Don't read too much into this. When the national police and guardia civil (o mossos de esquadra en catalonia) feel like they have to break up any sort of rally, demonstration or in this case hundreds of people trying to illegally enter their country they don't give a feck if it's immigrants or innocent bystanders as an excuse to get the batons out. Any sort of provocation sets them off.
 

DeGea’sFeet

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Don't read too much into this. When the national police and guardia civil (o mossos de esquadra en catalonia) feel like they have to break up any sort of rally, demonstration or in this case hundreds of people trying to illegally enter their country they don't give a feck if it's immigrants or innocent bystanders as an excuse to get the batons out. Any sort of provocation sets them off.
I know the Spanish police can be quite brutal. Was just posted to those saying that the videos didn’t show Spanish involvement… and let’s be honest while they can get away with beating up the occasional drunk tourist, if this was just one drunk tourist getting a beating after already being subdued there’d be a huge outrage.
 

)_(

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Yes, asking their neighbours to keep migrants away from their borders, and paying them/making concessions in return. There's really nothing wrong with that. It's the Moroccans you need to turn your focus on, not Spain.
Nah I'll definitely keep it focussed on the EU and Spain, thanks though.
 

Zarlak

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I feel terrible that those poor people died but I also know, as you do, that they shouldn’t be anywhere near that place.
There’s no excuse for brutality though.

edit: I’m out.
I feel terrible that those poor women were assaulted but I also know, as do you, that they shouldn't have been wearing skirts that short or shouldn't have been anywhere near that place that late at night.
There's no excuse for assault though.
 

Pintu

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Yes, asking their neighbours to keep migrants away from their borders, and paying them/making concessions in return. There's really nothing wrong with that. It's the Moroccans you need to turn your focus on, not Spain.
Morrocan police (if we are pretending Spanish officers didn't take part) brutalizing migrants on Spanish/EU soil is definitely on Spain and on the EU.
 

Denis79

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I know the Spanish police can be quite brutal. Was just posted to those saying that the videos didn’t show Spanish involvement… and let’s be honest while they can get away with beating up the occasional drunk tourist, if this was just one drunk tourist getting a beating after already being subdued there’d be a huge outrage.
Yup 100%
 

maniak

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People really are naive if they think this isn't exactly what the Spanish wanted to happen. Same way we (the EU) pay Turkey to treat people like shit and sink their boats. Governments want to make the whole migration process so cruel it dissuades people from coming, but they want the plausible deniability to convince people (like some in this thread) that it's really on the Moroccans or the Turks if something goes to shit and not them, because after all they are so humane and they just want things (that are impossible to happen legally) to happen legally and they condemn all this violence. The hypocrisy is sickening, really, and while it's to be expected from ruthless politicians and governments, it's quite sad to see some ordinary joes falling for it.

These were desperate human beings, like the poor Ukrainians who have been fleeing for their lives and the entire Europe decided to help and welcome with open arms. If you recognize this help and celebrate it, like you should, there's really only one explanation why you would look at events where Africans or Asians are brutally killed and come up with bullshit like "oh but they are illegal", "the video needs context, and what happened before? I can't see very well". We all know what that explanation is.
 

carvajal

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People really are naive if they think this isn't exactly what the Spanish wanted to happen. Same way we (the EU) pay Turkey to treat people like shit and sink their boats. Governments want to make the whole migration process so cruel it dissuades people from coming, but they want the plausible deniability to convince people (like some in this thread) that it's really on the Moroccans or the Turks if something goes to shit and not them, because after all they are so humane and they just want things (that are impossible to happen legally) to happen legally and they condemn all this violence. The hypocrisy is sickening, really, and while it's to be expected from ruthless politicians and governments, it's quite sad to see some ordinary joes falling for it.

These were desperate human beings, like the poor Ukrainians who have been fleeing for their lives and the entire Europe decided to help and welcome with open arms. If you recognize this help and celebrate it, like you should, there's really only one explanation why you would look at events where Africans or Asians are brutally killed and come up with bullshit like "oh but they are illegal", "the video needs context, and what happened before? I can't see very well". We all know what that explanation is.
I think I should have written something else when qualifying the illegal thing.
The scenes are just as horrifying regardless of their status, but saying that it is a group of migrants heading north seemed a bit vague to me (the post I replied to).
It is a group of 2,000 people who enter illegally and greatly outnumber the forces at the border (and who do not come unarmed).
It is a European Union issue, to decide if they want to reinforce (to avoid avalanches) or what is the border reception plan, do we have to deal with the conflict in Sudan and talk about refugees, and if 1000 come every week in small boats?.
Or a few months ago in Ceuta, when Morocco caused the entry of a multitude of children who were not claimed.
I can also be the most careful saying that they open the gate to everyone but it doesn't seem realistic.
I understand that your idea is that the Spanish government orchestrated an international smear operation against its management to obtain funds?
 

maniak

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I think I should have written something else when qualifying the illegal thing.
The scenes are just as horrifying regardless of their status, but saying that it is a group of migrants heading north seemed a bit vague to me (the post I replied to).
It is a group of 2,000 people who enter illegally and greatly outnumber the forces at the border (and who do not come unarmed).
It is a European Union issue, to decide if they want to reinforce (to avoid avalanches) or what is the border reception plan, do we have to deal with the conflict in Sudan and talk about refugees, and if 1000 come every week in small boats?.
Or a few months ago in Ceuta, when Morocco caused the entry of a multitude of children who were not claimed.
I can also be the most careful saying that they open the gate to everyone but it doesn't seem realistic.
I understand that your idea is that the Spanish government orchestrated an international smear operation against its management to obtain funds?
I'm not sure I understood your last sentence.

My understanding is that morocco used refugees/migrants as a diplomatic bargaining chip regarding the situation in western sahara. They kept sending them on purpose in large numbers (similar to what belarus tried with poland) to upset spain. Spain caved and agreed to recognize western sahara as part of morocco in exchange for the moroccans to "deal" with the situation.

Europe has this history to go to these countries who behave like mafia bosses, we give them what they want and in exchange for financial or diplomatic requests, they "deal" with the issue.

And then we're surprised they are violent and people die. As if the spanish don't know how moroccan authorities deal with migrants. Spain can't claim ignorance.

As for the numbers, I don't know what the solution is, but surely letting people drown or get beaten to death is not a solution. Unfortunately most europeans use the old "out of sight out mind" strategy to pretend they don't know what's going on.

The situation with ukraine showed that governments aren't telling the truth regarding refugees/migrants. For example in Portugal politicians always tell how important it is to not take too many people in, it costs money, bla bla bla. I checked the numbers and in the last 5 years Portugal received 800 people from syria. In the last 4 months we received 37000 from ukraine. So I'm sorry if I don't believe a bloc with around 450 million people and one of the best economies in the world doens't have any other choice than to pay mercenary regimes to "deal" with this situation.
 

Forevergiggs1

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I know the Spanish police can be quite brutal. Was just posted to those saying that the videos didn’t show Spanish involvement… and let’s be honest while they can get away with beating up the occasional drunk tourist, if this was just one drunk tourist getting a beating after already being subdued there’d be a huge outrage.
I think you're underestimating just how brutal the Spanish police really are. 3 or 4 years ago when the Catalan ex president Puigdemont was arrested, Barcelona (amongst others) went into meltdown. I was at one of the demonstrations when a few people behind me started chucking bricks. Next minute we were baton charged and I almost got my arm broke. People were running away but were still being batoned from behind. Even the TV crews filming the demonstrations got "hit." So no. A drunk tourist getting a beating after being subdued (like in the video) wouldn't make page 9 of a daily newspaper. At least here.

A word of advice. If you're ever in Catalonia and see a police van pull up with mossos d'esquadra brigada written on the side pull up just run because the shit is going to get real.
 

DeGea’sFeet

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A word of advice. If you're ever in Catalonia and see a police van pull up with mossos d'esquadra brigada written on the side pull up just run because the shit is going to get real.
When your user name is ForeverGiggs off course your advice will be to run from the police. :lol:
 

tomaldinho1

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Don't read too much into this. When the national police and guardia civil (o mossos de esquadra en catalonia) feel like they have to break up any sort of rally, demonstration or in this case hundreds of people trying to illegally enter their country they don't give a feck if it's immigrants or innocent bystanders as an excuse to get the batons out. Any sort of provocation sets them off.
Yep, I lived in Madrid during the ‘11 protests about unemployment. Peaceful protests by and large but the guardia are so over the top. I can’t stress enough how true Batons out for anything is, I even saw rubber bullets when it was completely unnecessary.
 

Rajma

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This is so upsetting and unfortunately it will keep happening while people will be leaving in god awful conditions in their own countries, I’m not sure what’s the long-term solution to this human tragedy.
 

Zlatattack

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There’s no excuse for brutality but there’s also no reason for south Sudanese to be in morrocco trying to enter a Spanish territory illegally.
Actually there is.

You see the really wealth European countries colonised Africa and Asia and asset stripped them. They not only stole their resources but also destroyed their social structures, models of governance and even local languages. When they left they imposed their own political values and systems on these countries and have since regularly intervened in these countries through direct military conflict or through economic warfare to ensure that the political values they hold dear are adhered too. This imposition of political systems is actually a front to ensure the chosen patsies of these western countries are in charge so that Western corporations can continue to exploit the resources of Africa and Asia.

This exploitation which is continuing even as we read these comments, coupled with the corrupt patsies installed in these countries leads to a huge vacuum of wealth and opportunity. Meanwhile here in Europe you can work for below minimum wage in a hand car wash, sleep on the floor on a room you share with 3-4 other people, and still earn/save enough to send money back home to support your families.

This is why there are waves and waves of illegal immigrants trying to get to Europe, and will continue to come - even if you machine gun them all.

Spain is a little unfortunate with it's geography, being one of the easiest Western European countries to access.