Squaddies - then and now.

Mark Pawelek

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During Fergie's reign, I think there were generally 4 kinds of squad player:
  1. Punts - bought for low prices, often about £5m. Many punts didn't work out. Some punts were huge successes and became starters. Failures stayed for about a season, if that, then left.
  2. Stalwarts - not quite good enough to start matches when everyone is fit but they often saw action. Players like: John O'Shea, Fletcher. They were genuine reserves and essential.
  3. Rejects - players found lacking, and likely leaving in the first available transfer window.
  4. Rotation players. Would not start in the strongest 11 but often played. Like Ole.
Compare then to now. Today, too many squad players are rejects, who just never left. The quality of the squad is not good enough because rejects haven't been identified quickly enough and moved out. There seems to be an attitude of "make rejects squad players". We pretend to ourselves they will somehow come good. It's very wrong. Replacing them need not cost a fortune if replaced with free, or near end-of-contract players. LvG made use of free contracts when he brought Romero and Valdés. Free and near end-of-contract signings are a useful way to move Lingard, Mata, Matic and another out this January. They can be replaced by: Mertens, Fraser, Mandzukic and Rakitic for a total of £50m - £60m, ignoring any money we get for the surplus players. The first 3 I want to bring in have contracts ending next June. Rakitic hasn't been playing this season. He wants out. Barca need EUR 200m - 300m to bring Neymar back and balance their books, under pressure from FFP.

We rarely need to make punts any more because the youth ranks and scouting setup are better. We may now have a dozen or more youth good enough to one day play for the first team as regulars, reserves, or rotators. I hope some of them will be ready when the veterans I want to sign are ready to hang up their boots.
 

Champ

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Every single player would have ran through a brick wall for Sir Fergie, didn't matter if they weren't as talented as the top players.
Players like Fletcher, o Shea, park would work their socks off which made up for the slight lack of footballing ability.
That's what's missing today, a genuine cohesive plan and a leader who can be believed in.
Get those two sorted and you'll start to see improvement in players like Rashford, Lingard etc.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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What about the first teamers?

How many of these:
De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, AWB, Pogba, McTominay, Rashford, Lingard, James, Martial.

Would make it to any of these:

Schmeichel, Irwin, Pallister, Bruce, Parker, Giggs, Keane, Ince, Kanchelskis, Hughes, Cantona.

Schmeichel, Irwin, Johnsen, Stam, Neville, Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Cole, Yorke.

Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Brown, Giggs, Carrick, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez.

Literally zero of our current lot make it to the treble team, big fat zero.

How much we’ve wasted since 2013 again?
We should be up there competing with Liverpool and City for the league and with Europe’s finest for the CL, not sitting 2 pts from the relegation zone, and 15 from the leaders after 8 matches.

The last six years have been a completely avoidable mess.

Feck off ED, LvG, Jose, our scouting and transfer department.

There should be sackings happening at the club top to bottom, but instead people are getting rewarded and given pay rises.
 

Mark Pawelek

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The last six years have been a completely avoidable mess.

Feck off ED, LvG, Jose, our scouting and transfer department.

There should be sackings happening at the club top to bottom, but instead people are getting rewarded and given pay rises.
Your point is United signings in the past 6 years don't have the winning mentality of SAF years.

My point is United keep weak players too long. The player churn of SAF years has gone.

Two connected things. Two faces of the same coin. Same people, responsible for player recruitment, also decide who should leave.
 

Sky1981

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Our players' isnt shit, its their mentality that makes them shit, added to shit coaching.

Fergie can't turn turd into gold, but he sure can make copper into something that the teams needs.

We've had players like Blomqvist, Fortune, Park, O'shea, Van Der Gouw, Wes Brown, Nicky Butt, and many other players that understand their role perfectly, and play accordingly, and Fergie was smart enough to make them feel appreciated, giving them game time and guidance so that when the time comes for him to rely on them they're there.

Our 4 managers post Fergie are too quick to pull the trigger, they always think they have time and cash on their hands they never fully understood that these players aren't bad, they're just mismanaged
 

devilish

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Our players' isnt shit, its their mentality that makes them shit, added to shit coaching.

Fergie can't turn turd into gold, but he sure can make copper into something that the teams needs.

We've had players like Blomqvist, Fortune, Park, O'shea, Van Der Gouw, Wes Brown, Nicky Butt, and many other players that understand their role perfectly, and play accordingly, and Fergie was smart enough to make them feel appreciated, giving them game time and guidance so that when the time comes for him to rely on them they're there.

Our 4 managers post Fergie are too quick to pull the trigger, they always think they have time and cash on their hands they never fully understood that these players aren't bad, they're just mismanaged
They are shit. Ole makes them look worse though
 

Mark Pawelek

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Our players' isnt shit, its their mentality that makes them shit, added to shit coaching.

Fergie can't turn turd into gold, but he sure can make copper into something that the teams needs.

We've had players like Blomqvist, Fortune, Park, O'shea, Van Der Gouw, Wes Brown, Nicky Butt, and many other players that understand their role perfectly, and play accordingly, and Fergie was smart enough to make them feel appreciated, giving them game time and guidance so that when the time comes for him to rely on them they're there.

Our 4 managers post Fergie are too quick to pull the trigger, they always think they have time and cash on their hands they never fully understood that these players aren't bad, they're just mismanaged
Fergie should've been sacked in his 3rd full season in charge.

For his first 2 full seasons (1987/88, 1988/89) Fregie bought 6 players for £4.253 million (total): Jim Leighton, Mal Donaghy, Lee Sharpe, Steve Bruce, Brian McClair, Viv Anderson

In his 3rd full season (989/90) he spent over twice as much, £9.946 m, on 11 players: Les Sealey, Mark Crossley, Andy Rammell, Danny Wallace, Brian Carey, Paul Ince, Mark Bosnich, Mark Hughes, Gary Pallister, Neil Webb, Mike Phelan

17 new players in 3 years. Almost a complete squad churn around. He came very close to getting the sack in 1989/90, after a sequence of 6 defeats and 5 draws in 11 games. Finished 13th with only 48 points from 13 wins, 9 draws, 16 losses. Only scored 46 goals. Winning the FA Cup saved him.
 
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Sky1981

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Fergie should've been sacked in his 3rd full season in charge.

For his first 2 full seasons (1987/88, 1988/89) Fregie bought 6 players for £4.253 million (total): Jim Leighton, Mal Donaghy, Lee Sharpe, Steve Bruce, Brian McClair, Viv Anderson

In his 3rd full season (989/90) he spent over twice as much, £9.946 m, on 11 players: Les Sealey, Mark Crossley, Andy Rammell, Danny Wallace, Brian Carey, Paul Ince, Mark Bosnich, Mark Hughes, Gary Pallister, Neil Webb, Mike Phelan

17 new players in 3 years. Almost a complete squad churn around. He came very close to getting the sack in 1989/90, after a sequence of 6 defeats and 2 draws in 8 games. Finished 13th with only 48 points from 13 wins, 9 draws, 16 losses. Only scored 46 goals.
Fegie won european cup with aberdeen. He earnt that goodwill.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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You say O'Shea is mediocre but would Lingard have scored that lobbed goal Vs Arsenal? Would he feck.
O’shea was a far better player to have in the squad than Lingard, could play anywhere across the back four and regularly give you a 6-7/10 performances, very useful player.

Our players' isnt shit, its their mentality that makes them shit, added to shit coaching.
The mentality is a big part of what makes a player “good”, a “good” player without the right the mentality can only be good in theory or on the training pitch.
Some of these players were poor or not good enough under world class coaches like Van Gaal and Mourinho, they’re probably not good players, mate.
 
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roonster09

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You say O'Shea is mediocre but would Lingard have scored that lobbed goal Vs Arsenal? Would he feck.
O'Shea wasn't mediocre and had much better career than most players in the current squad, he wasn't even a liability on the pitch. He covered all defensive positions and also few other positions. Also tbf to Lingard, he has scored some superb goals for us, including one in FA cup finals.

There is no comparison when it comes to their contribution though.
 

Sandikan

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You say O'Shea is mediocre but would Lingard have scored that lobbed goal Vs Arsenal? Would he feck.
Have you seen a highlights reel of Lingard's goals?
He's scored some absolute screamers and often in big games.

Being out of form, and obviously not the level of previous starters is his problem.
He's have been a squad player in Fergie's day, and very few would have moaned too much, as he'd have played at the right time
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Have you seen a highlights reel of Lingard's goals?
He's scored some absolute screamers and often in big games.

Being out of form, and obviously not the level of previous starters is his problem.
He's have been a squad player in Fergie's day, and very few would have moaned too much, as he'd have played at the right time
Lingard would’ve been a Watford player by now if Fergie was manager.
Fergie liked his attacking players to produce numbers and be creative, Lingard isn’t even a good man marker to perform a “Ji Sung Park” role for the team, forget it.
 

NinjaZombie

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Have you seen a highlights reel of Lingard's goals?
He's scored some absolute screamers and often in big games.

Being out of form, and obviously not the level of previous starters is his problem.
He's have been a squad player in Fergie's day, and very few would have moaned too much, as he'd have played at the right time
Don't think Fergie would have thought him good enough to have to put up with his social media nonsense.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Don't think Fergie would have thought him good enough to have to put up with his social media nonsense.
It's very hard to say what sir Alex would or wouldn't have put up with in regards to this 'Social Media' age; e.g. he loved Anderson - imagine peak, young Ando with Instagram at his finger tips. . .

A squad youngster brought through under SAF can't be compared to any others coming through now, there was an expectancy of players that meant issues they may have produced for others never arised. Darron Gibson wasn't out getting p***ed and talking out of turn in his United years.