Squaddies - then and now.

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Mark Pawelek, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. Oct 10, 2019
    #1

    Mark Pawelek Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,202
    Location:
    Kent, near London
    During Fergie's reign, I think there were generally 4 kinds of squad player:
    1. Punts - bought for low prices, often about £5m. Many punts didn't work out. Some punts were huge successes and became starters. Failures stayed for about a season, if that, then left.
    2. Stalwarts - not quite good enough to start matches when everyone is fit but they often saw action. Players like: John O'Shea, Fletcher. They were genuine reserves and essential.
    3. Rejects - players found lacking, and likely leaving in the first available transfer window.
    4. Rotation players. Would not start in the strongest 11 but often played. Like Ole.
    Compare then to now. Today, too many squad players are rejects, who just never left. The quality of the squad is not good enough because rejects haven't been identified quickly enough and moved out. There seems to be an attitude of "make rejects squad players". We pretend to ourselves they will somehow come good. It's very wrong. Replacing them need not cost a fortune if replaced with free, or near end-of-contract players. LvG made use of free contracts when he brought Romero and Valdés. Free and near end-of-contract signings are a useful way to move Lingard, Mata, Matic and another out this January. They can be replaced by: Mertens, Fraser, Mandzukic and Rakitic for a total of £50m - £60m, ignoring any money we get for the surplus players. The first 3 I want to bring in have contracts ending next June. Rakitic hasn't been playing this season. He wants out. Barca need EUR 200m - 300m to bring Neymar back and balance their books, under pressure from FFP.

    We rarely need to make punts any more because the youth ranks and scouting setup are better. We may now have a dozen or more youth good enough to one day play for the first team as regulars, reserves, or rotators. I hope some of them will be ready when the veterans I want to sign are ready to hang up their boots.
  2. Oct 10, 2019
    #2

    MAME DIOUF 32 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,334
    Fletcher was frequently picked for big games. Doesn't belong in a category with someone as mediocre as O'Shea.
  3. Oct 10, 2019
    #3

    Champ Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2017
    Messages:
    780
    Every single player would have ran through a brick wall for Sir Fergie, didn't matter if they weren't as talented as the top players.
    Players like Fletcher, o Shea, park would work their socks off which made up for the slight lack of footballing ability.
    That's what's missing today, a genuine cohesive plan and a leader who can be believed in.
    Get those two sorted and you'll start to see improvement in players like Rashford, Lingard etc.
  4. Oct 11, 2019
    #4

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,739
    Location:
    Acapulco, Somalia
    What about the first teamers?

    How many of these:
    De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, AWB, Pogba, McTominay, Rashford, Lingard, James, Martial.

    Would make it to any of these:

    Schmeichel, Irwin, Pallister, Bruce, Parker, Giggs, Keane, Ince, Kanchelskis, Hughes, Cantona.

    Schmeichel, Irwin, Johnsen, Stam, Neville, Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Cole, Yorke.

    Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Brown, Giggs, Carrick, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez.

    Literally zero of our current lot make it to the treble team, big fat zero.

    How much we’ve wasted since 2013 again?
    We should be up there competing with Liverpool and City for the league and with Europe’s finest for the CL, not sitting 2 pts from the relegation zone, and 15 from the leaders after 8 matches.

    The last six years have been a completely avoidable mess.

    Feck off ED, LvG, Jose, our scouting and transfer department.

    There should be sackings happening at the club top to bottom, but instead people are getting rewarded and given pay rises.
  5. Oct 11, 2019
    #5

    Mark Pawelek Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,202
    Location:
    Kent, near London
    Your point is United signings in the past 6 years don't have the winning mentality of SAF years.

    My point is United keep weak players too long. The player churn of SAF years has gone.

    Two connected things. Two faces of the same coin. Same people, responsible for player recruitment, also decide who should leave.
  6. Oct 11, 2019
    #6

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,515
    Location:
    Under the bright neon lights of sincity
    Our players' isnt shit, its their mentality that makes them shit, added to shit coaching.

    Fergie can't turn turd into gold, but he sure can make copper into something that the teams needs.

    We've had players like Blomqvist, Fortune, Park, O'shea, Van Der Gouw, Wes Brown, Nicky Butt, and many other players that understand their role perfectly, and play accordingly, and Fergie was smart enough to make them feel appreciated, giving them game time and guidance so that when the time comes for him to rely on them they're there.

    Our 4 managers post Fergie are too quick to pull the trigger, they always think they have time and cash on their hands they never fully understood that these players aren't bad, they're just mismanaged
  7. Oct 11, 2019
    #7

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    50,926
    They are shit. Ole makes them look worse though
  8. Oct 11, 2019
    #8

    Mark Pawelek Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,202
    Location:
    Kent, near London
    Fergie should've been sacked in his 3rd full season in charge.

    For his first 2 full seasons (1987/88, 1988/89) Fregie bought 6 players for £4.253 million (total): Jim Leighton, Mal Donaghy, Lee Sharpe, Steve Bruce, Brian McClair, Viv Anderson

    In his 3rd full season (989/90) he spent over twice as much, £9.946 m, on 11 players: Les Sealey, Mark Crossley, Andy Rammell, Danny Wallace, Brian Carey, Paul Ince, Mark Bosnich, Mark Hughes, Gary Pallister, Neil Webb, Mike Phelan

    17 new players in 3 years. Almost a complete squad churn around. He came very close to getting the sack in 1989/90, after a sequence of 6 defeats and 5 draws in 11 games. Finished 13th with only 48 points from 13 wins, 9 draws, 16 losses. Only scored 46 goals. Winning the FA Cup saved him.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  9. Oct 11, 2019
    #9

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,515
    Location:
    Under the bright neon lights of sincity
    Fegie won european cup with aberdeen. He earnt that goodwill.
  10. Oct 11, 2019
    #10

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,441
    Location:
    Leather jacket popped like Cantona
    You say O'Shea is mediocre but would Lingard have scored that lobbed goal Vs Arsenal? Would he feck.
  11. Oct 11, 2019
    #11

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,739
    Location:
    Acapulco, Somalia
    O’shea was a far better player to have in the squad than Lingard, could play anywhere across the back four and regularly give you a 6-7/10 performances, very useful player.

    The mentality is a big part of what makes a player “good”, a “good” player without the right the mentality can only be good in theory or on the training pitch.
    Some of these players were poor or not good enough under world class coaches like Van Gaal and Mourinho, they’re probably not good players, mate.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  12. Oct 11, 2019
    #12

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    19,707
    O'Shea wasn't mediocre and had much better career than most players in the current squad, he wasn't even a liability on the pitch. He covered all defensive positions and also few other positions. Also tbf to Lingard, he has scored some superb goals for us, including one in FA cup finals.

    There is no comparison when it comes to their contribution though.
  13. Oct 11, 2019
    #13

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,313
    Have you seen a highlights reel of Lingard's goals?
    He's scored some absolute screamers and often in big games.

    Being out of form, and obviously not the level of previous starters is his problem.
    He's have been a squad player in Fergie's day, and very few would have moaned too much, as he'd have played at the right time
  14. Oct 11, 2019
    #14

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,739
    Location:
    Acapulco, Somalia
    Lingard would’ve been a Watford player by now if Fergie was manager.
    Fergie liked his attacking players to produce numbers and be creative, Lingard isn’t even a good man marker to perform a “Ji Sung Park” role for the team, forget it.
  15. Oct 11, 2019
    #15

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,441
    Location:
    Leather jacket popped like Cantona
    Don't think Fergie would have thought him good enough to have to put up with his social media nonsense.
  16. Oct 11, 2019
    #16

    AFC NimbleThumb Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Messages:
    837
    It's very hard to say what sir Alex would or wouldn't have put up with in regards to this 'Social Media' age; e.g. he loved Anderson - imagine peak, young Ando with Instagram at his finger tips. . .

    A squad youngster brought through under SAF can't be compared to any others coming through now, there was an expectancy of players that meant issues they may have produced for others never arised. Darron Gibson wasn't out getting p***ed and talking out of turn in his United years.