Stéphanie Frappart to referee UEFA Super Cup

Bwuk

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My thoughts exactly, I'm all for gender equality but this is where it goes too far the other way.

How many other referees (of either sex) are more qualified for this game. Feels like a slap in the face to them.
Agreed.

I don’t really care who the ref is. But it should be the most qualified.

Hopefully she hates Liverpool.
 

Untd55

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She, evidently, is not experienced enough to take on this game. Fine, if she was, but why wasn't a qualified man chosen instead of someone inexperienced?

It sounds like a woman has been chosen because she is a woman. Inherently, that is sexist against men, since the only reason one of the men has not been chosen is, solely, due to them being men.

It should be the most suitable person chosen for the job.
 

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With any luck it’ll force the authorities to actually do something about dissent. The way teams crowd the referee is ridiculous, and it’ll look a lot worse when a woman is on the receiving end.
 

Mb194dc

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Being a referee should be 100% on Merit. I don't see why gender should matter? Either you're a good referee or not. A lot of the male referees in the premier league are frankly, pretty abysmal in honesty, so the bar is low.

This will be a fiercely contested game and a big test for her refereeing abilities.
 

Inigo Montoya

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With any luck it’ll force the authorities to actually do something about dissent. The way teams crowd the referee is ridiculous, and it’ll look a lot worse when a woman is on the receiving end.
You're absolutely right.

I'd love to see if this would work in countries where equality in the workplace is a bit arbitrary
 

Inigo Montoya

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Being a referee should be 100% on Merit. I don't see why gender should matter? Either you're a good referee or not. A lot of the male referees in the premier league are frankly, pretty abysmal in honesty, so the bar is low.

This will be a fiercely contested game and a big test for her refereeing abilities.
It won't. Liverpool will wipe the floor with Chelsea
 

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Good.
I hope women get integrated into the mens game as refs. I think they have more integrity than shits like Clattenburg who are more interested in a outcome and paper-talk than enforcing the rules.
 

Inigo Montoya

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She, evidently, is not experienced enough to take on this game. Fine, if she was, but why wasn't a qualified man chosen instead of someone inexperienced?

It sounds like a woman has been chosen because she is a woman. Inherently, that is sexist against men, since the only reason one of the men has not been chosen is, solely, due to them being men.

It should be the most suitable person chosen for the job.
Bloody hell! Have you just transported here from the 1970s?:lol:
 

Mb194dc

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It won't. Liverpool will wipe the floor with Chelsea
Guess we'll see about that. Lampard knows all about Liverpool, and I expect we'll be seriously fired up, plus we've got Utd at Old Trafford before to get us in the right place mentally. Granted Liverpool have two extra days off before it (as usual in Europe?).. This early in the season hopefully that won't matter much.

Wouldn't be surprised to see some tasty tackles flying in as Lampard looks to set a marker for the season. Stephanie going to have her work cut out keeping a lid on it. It'll be a good test.
 

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Good.
I hope women get integrated into the mens game as refs. I think they have more integrity than shits like Clattenburg who are more interested in a outcome and paper-talk than enforcing the rules.
Surely that's down to the individual woman rather than an entire gender having more integrity than Clattenburg.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Guess we'll see about that. Lampard knows all about Liverpool, and I expect we'll be seriously fired up, plus we've got Utd at Old Trafford before to get us in the right place mentally. Granted Liverpool have two extra days off before it (as usual in Europe?).. This early in the season hopefully that won't matter much.

Wouldn't be surprised to see some tasty tackles flying in as Lampard looks to set a marker for the season. Stephanie going to have her work cut out keeping a lid on it. It'll be a good test.
It's an exhibition match...glorified.

If either team starts going in studs up,it'll be madness in the context of a season
 

Ødegaard

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Surely that's down to the individual woman rather than an entire gender having more integrity than Clattenburg.
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
However I'm under the impression that there are a lot of that kind of referee in the Premier League. If getting women in means some of those can be switched out (as they don't seem to get demotions or are even reprimanded when they feck up), then I'm all for it.
 

Untd55

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Bloody hell! Have you just transported here from the 1970s?:lol:
If a person is chosen because of their gender, other people have not been chosen because of their gender. It is not that hard to figure out; it doesn't matter whether the person chosen is a woman or a man, either way, the other people have been discriminated against due to being the opposite.

I said quite clearly, the person should be chosen on their suitability, not their gender. She does not have the experience for a game of this magnitude.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Yes, you are absolutely correct.
However I'm under the impression that there are a lot of that kind of referee in the Premier League. If getting women in means some of those can be switched out (as they don't seem to get demotions or are even reprimanded when they feck up), then I'm all for it.
There isn't quite the depth in standard or match volume to get demoted. Where would they be demoted to? Under 12 games?
 

jojojo

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What i struggle to understand is this.

How is the women's game supposed to grow if the best female refs and coaches goes over to the men's game? Genuine question.
Like most things about the women's game in Europe it comes down to money and volume of matches. PL referees are on fulltime contracts and get fees on top - typically adding up to around £70k/year, more for the ones who also referee UEFA/FIFA matches. WSL officials get match fees only - between £35 and £80/game - it's a pocket money job. Hard to improve if you've not got the extra time to put into fitness training, extra coaching sessions etc.

Basically in England a ref is better paid in the upper tiers of the men's non-league system that anywhere in the women's game. So, if a ref can meet the standards needed to ref in the national league, the EFL or PL, that's where they'll ref. The spinoff for the women's game is that's also where they'll improve - faster games, tighter calls, better training and more tough matches. When they do get put in charge of a top women's match they'll be ready for it.

Some of them may even decide that having done some EFL and PL games as a ref or assistant, they'd rather have a normal (maybe non-football) job and do their refereeing in the WSL as a sideline - which is after all, what most refs at various levels, outside the elite, around the world are doing.
 

Inigo Montoya

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If a person is chosen because of their gender, other people have not been chosen because of their gender. It is not that hard to figure out; it doesn't matter whether the person chosen is a woman or a man, either way, the other people have been discriminated against due to being the opposite.

I said quite clearly, the person should be chosen on their suitability, not their gender. She does not have the experience for a game of this magnitude.
So on that basis, no woman should ever be allowed to referee a men's match due to inexperience? So that just keeps them marginalised until what exactly? How are they supposed to get top level experience if dinosaurs like you believe they shouldn't?

The same should be said for African and Asian refs then. They simply don't have the top level experience to ref top level matches in Europe, so let's restrict it to largely white male dominated refs.
 

Chipper

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If she has only refereed 2 Ligue 1 games as has been said then this is dumb tokenism.
 

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Because that's progress in your eyes then?:rolleyes:
I'm sorry, you must have me confused as someone who is thinking about progress in this specific case.
I just really dislike some of the past and current refs in England.
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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'We want to show we're supporting women officials but we've forgotten to actually give any of the refs any prior opportunities at the top level of the men's game so don't know who we can trust... so we're gonna get the woman who did two Ligue 1 games to ref the match lots of people watch but no one cares about.'
 

Inigo Montoya

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I'm sorry, you must have me confused as someone who is thinking about progress in this specific case.
I just really dislike some of the past and current refs in England.
It's all about progress.

At the moment there is a shortage of people wanting to qualify as refs;men and women. If you start what amounts to discrimination then we are going to end up with very few refs.

As for the past and current refs statement;that's your opinion. It doesn't make all officials bad because you didn't agree with their decisions.
 

Inigo Montoya

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'We want to show we're supporting women officials but we've forgotten to actually give any of the refs any prior opportunities at the top level of the men's game so don't know who we can trust... so we're gonna get the woman who did two Ligue 1 games to ref the match lots of people watch but no one cares about.'
Sorted!
 

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It's all about progress.

At the moment there is a shortage of people wanting to qualify as refs;men and women. If you start what amounts to discrimination then we are going to end up with very few refs.

As for the past and current refs statement;that's your opinion. It doesn't make all officials bad because you didn't agree with their decisions.
It being my opinion doesn't make them good either.
I can think a lot of refs in the PL are bad and in need of replacing. I won't be affecting that from the top-point in Norway or the few times I travel to England to watch United.

Obviously there are deeper issues than my dislike for the refs, and they should be better at inclusion and training of refs of both genders so that they are all actually capable of doing their job to a high standard.
If it was up to me and for technology to make it possible, I'd get rid of referees fully.
 

Inigo Montoya

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It being my opinion doesn't make them good either.
I can think a lot of refs in the PL are bad and in need of replacing. I won't be affecting that from the top-point in Norway or the few times I travel to England to watch United.

Obviously there are deeper issues than my dislike for the refs, and they should be better at inclusion and training of refs of both genders so that they are all actually capable of doing their job to a high standard.
If it was up to me and for technology to make it possible, I'd get rid of referees fully.
Why stop at refs? Let's get rid of the humans who play too. Oh wait, I forgot we have Fifa'FM etc.
 

Art Vandelay

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Yes, you are absolutely correct.
However I'm under the impression that there are a lot of that kind of referee in the Premier League. If getting women in means some of those can be switched out (as they don't seem to get demotions or are even reprimanded when they feck up), then I'm all for it.
True enough, I think there's a lack of referee's in general coming through from grass roots level right up and it's a hard thing to fast track as they need the experience to get there. I think they will always appear to be shocking anyway as good decisions are just accepted as part and parcel of the game while bad ones are picked apart endlessly. You get some twats, but on the whole standard's not terrible at the minute.

So on that basis, no woman should ever be allowed to referee a men's match due to inexperience? So that just keeps them marginalised until what exactly? How are they supposed to get top level experience if dinosaurs like you believe they shouldn't?

The same should be said for African and Asian refs then. They simply don't have the top level experience to ref top level matches in Europe, so let's restrict it to largely white male dominated refs.
How did you jump to that from what he said?
 

Untd55

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So on that basis, no woman should ever be allowed to referee a men's match due to inexperience? So that just keeps them marginalised until what exactly? How are they supposed to get top level experience if dinosaurs like you believe they shouldn't?

The same should be said for African and Asian refs then. They simply don't have the top level experience to ref top level matches in Europe, so let's restrict it to largely white male dominated refs.
What I am saying is that women should follow the same progression as men. Women can get experience to take these positions, but they shouldn't be artificially bumped up to these larger games.

I would be saying the same if it was a man. You would expect the most experienced referees to be competing for this standard of game, which is usually the case. If she had more experience, fine, but she only has one Ligue 1 match. Now, she is suddenly taking on the match between the Champions League and Europa League winners. She should be getting more Ligue 1 matches prior to having a higher grade game.

The countries thing is different. Those are national limitations which nothing can be done about, but referees (men or women) should still reach the highest grade in their own country before taking on higher matches.

If women want to ref these big games, they should work their up in the men's leagues. She has got closer with getting a Ligue 1 game, but she still has not got sufficient experience to take this job on. There are far more suitable people around.
 

DiseaseOfTheAge

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I think they're treating it as a glorified friendly to be honest. If they bring her into the panel for the CL or EL it will be significant. I reckon they're comfortable with this one being a free hit.
Is what they should actually be looking to do.

Or they could've used the Nations League to give a few a chance to referee men's games with big crowds without it being quite as high stakes as their club football tournaments.

Obviously, ideally, the various associations would be more use in actually giving talented women a chance but we don't seem to be there just yet.
 

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PR stunt.

She isn’t remotely experienced enough to referee this game. Her gender is irrelevant, too. UEFA wouldn’t employ a male referee that has never really officiated outside of the Championship before. She should be no different.
Partly agree, but the good thing about 'PR stunts' or these things being pushed unorganically is it'll speed up the amount of young people becoming interested, so there'll be more quality coming up in less time.
 

Inigo Montoya

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What I am saying is that women should follow the same progression as men. Women can get experience to take these positions, but they shouldn't be artificially bumped up to these larger games.

I would be saying the same if it was a man. You would expect the most experienced referees to be competing for this standard of game, which is usually the case. If she had more experience, fine, but she only has 1 Ligue 1 match. Now, she is suddenly taking on the match between the Champions League and Europa League winners. She should be getting more Ligue 1 matches prior to having a higher grade game.

The countries thing is different. Those are national limitations which nothing can be done about, but referees (men or women) should still reach the highest grade in their own country before taking on higher matches.

If women want to ref these big games, they should work their up in the men's leagues. She obviously has done it, but she still has not got sufficient experience to take this job on.
It's a specious argument. What experience do you suggest: PL,Championship? I'd wager they would be much more competitive than a glorified exhibition match.

Good luck to her and I hope to see more women ref in the PL
 

iammemphis

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How on earth is a woman supposed to referee a game of football as good as a man? Their brains are much smaller then a mans, and they don’t have anywhere near the intelligence and judgment to be able to make the right decisions. This is ludicrous.