Stéphanie Frappart to referee UEFA Super Cup

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by rio's upper lip, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Aug 2, 2019

    Chipper Full Member

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    I'm personally fine with female officials in the men's game, I'd even be fine with female players in err, an open category game instead of calling it men's football assuming she was good enough and not just there for PR. There are male refs in women's football so why not?

    My only beef with this is that this ref hasn't much experience at all in the men's game and I wonder if she's being over-promoted as a result. She did do the women's world cup final, a tournament I watched quite a lot of and I thought she did well. Some of the others not so much. It's whether or not being a good ref in the women's game and doing the world cup final necessarily translates to being deserving of refereeing at any level including the higher levels of the men's version of the game. I'm not completely sold on that.

    This is a prestigious match as far as officials go and she's only just been promoted to Ligue 1 in France whereas other refs who have done this match had years of top-flight experience as well as a whole host of European club games including CL and EL semi finals plus high profile international matches at tournaments to reach this point.

    I don't necessarily think she won't be up to it, but am a bit torn as to whether she should have to follow the same route as male refs refereeing in male football to get this appointment and do more in the men's game first.

    There's another French ref called Turpin who looks like he'd be a solid appointment. 10 years in Ligue 1, has done Europa League semis and Champions League quarters before, loads of internationals etc. He'd be more like the previous refs that have got this game and has worked his way through the ranks.

    We don't like him but then there's Cakir, the one who sent Nani off against Madrid. He's very highly rated in UEFA and has done almost every other high profile match apart from this.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  2. Aug 3, 2019

    Halftrack Full Member

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    Some people on here posting from the 60s, it seems. It's a super cup, nothing more than a glorified friendly, and I can't for the life of me picture any male ref sitting around feeling miffed that they didn't get to do it. And it's not like she's some no-mark ref from the Romanian 7th tier. PR stunt by UEFA or not, she's clearly a competent ref qualified to lead the game.
    This is a bad post.

    That is all.
  3. Aug 3, 2019

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Of course male referees will be disappointed to not get the Super Cup. For some fans it may be a glorified friendly but refs certainly don't view it like that. It is a goo chance to be viewed and be awarded high CL fixture.
    Analyzing it through the eyes of a fan makes no sense whatsoever
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  4. Aug 3, 2019

    Mcking Full Member

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    I always chuckle whenever someone calls the UEFA Super Cup a glorified friendly. What makes it a friendly, because it is not the most prestigious? A predominant Ligue 2 ref who has never refereed a UEFA competitive match is simply not experienced enough to referee a game of the Super Cup's magnitude. It is a PR stunt and nothing more. If she wasn't female, she wouldn't be the referee.
  5. Aug 3, 2019

    Mrs Smoker Full Member

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    Sad to hear.

    I want anger, complaints, tears, drama, yellow cards, red cards.

    Thanks a lot, UEFA!
  6. Aug 3, 2019

    jojojo JoJoJoJoJoJo Staff

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    It is a PR driven appointment but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad one. The national FAs need more referees, one way of getting them is to increase the number of women entering the structure. One way of doing that is to use women referees in well televised games.

    Frappart has come up through the standard training/promotion system in France, and is a fully qualified FIFA/Ligue1 ref. Does she have a lot of experience in Ligue1? No.

    But then, that might be because she's been encouraged to continue refereeing women's football alongside her Ligue commitments. She's done two WWC tournaments, an Olympics, lots of women's CL matches. Maybe the French FA, UEFA, FIFA asked her to do that, and promised her that being unavailable some weeks wouldn't kill her men's game career? Who knows.

    I think it's a reward to her for keeping the faith. UEFA have a high profile friendly, VAR and a, "well, we wanted to let her try," story to fall back on. It's a very low cost, low risk strategy for them. For them, if she does well then great and if she does badly they'll just say, "top level men's football needs more high level men's football experience," so we'll try again in a few years.

    Michelle O'Neill as assistant ref though, I'm not convinced experience in the Irish leagues counts at all :smirk:
  7. Aug 3, 2019

    vadimivich Full Member

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    She refereed a World Cup Final and somehow now doing the UEFA Super Cup is "overpromoting". Some people on here barely even try to hide their prejudice and bias.
  8. Aug 3, 2019

    Mcking Full Member

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    Women World Cup final.
  9. Aug 3, 2019

    MalcolmTucker Full Member

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    Women's football and men's football isn't the same. Men's football is much quicker and the spotlight is far brighter - is it bias and prejudice to highlight those obvious facts? If this was a few years down the line and she had the same experience in the men's game as her male colleagues then there wouldn't be any argument (except for maybe a handful of actual sexists) - this is what equality should be about, not overnight tokenism at the expense of others.
  10. Aug 3, 2019

    Halftrack Full Member

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    'Tokenism' is a word only people you don't want to talk to use.
  11. Aug 3, 2019

    Chipper Full Member

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    As the only person to use that term so far on this thread I assume that's directed at me?

    If so I did not say she was being overpromoted but I wondered if she was. I asked the question whether or not her experience in women's football necessarily translates to the men's and did not say it definitely didn't, but that I was not completely sold that it did. I also said I was torn as to whether or not she should have to take the same sort of route that men would need to take in terms of reffing men's football to get this game. I'm thinking it through still.

    Edit: Now I did call it dumb tokenism in page 1 of this thread when some people had mentioned that she's barely officiated in Ligue 1. So people do have that on me. In my defence I wasn't aware she was WWC final referee at that point as it hadn't been mentioned yet. I watched that tournament and like most people don't pay attention to referee's names. When it was mentioned I googled her and recognised her from her picture and that gave me a lot more to think about as I thought she was good.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  12. Aug 3, 2019

    MalcolmTucker Full Member

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    It is tokenism though, or at least a PR stunt.

    So many people clamouring over eachother to declare themselves righteous in this thread and trying to paint those who disagree as having dated outlooks. I'm a classic bleeding-heart liberal but I always assumed equality meant providing everyone with equal opportunity - this referee's CV stands out as a sore thumb in comparison to the previous officials of the match, that's not equality.

    Also people that use 'That is all' to sign off a post are usually teenagers who think they are droll
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  13. Aug 3, 2019

    Art Vandelay Full Member

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    It really shouldn't count. Has any one else from the Irish league ever been given such a game?

    PR stunt or not, they've put a bigger spotlight on her than she would have got if they had just let her keep getting experience in Ligue 1 for a while by throwing her into this match. Which isn't really fair on any ref as they are already under pressure.
  14. Aug 3, 2019

    jojojo JoJoJoJoJoJo Staff

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    I'm guessing they're looking at how she got on in the WWC and saying that she's already had the coping under pressure test. Given all the fuss about VAR and rule changes that was going on during the tournament the fact she emerged with her reputation enhanced is a good sign.

    That said, if they didn't have one eye on the PR aspects, they could have given her some EL/CL qualifiers this pre-season, fastracking her without the same level of scrutiny. However then they'd be risking a different and more dangerous kind of eruption from any club that felt there had been any sort of mistake by her/her team - at which point given the money involved and the absence of VAR, it could be a lot worse in terms of pressure/aftermath or even on field trouble, than a high-profile friendly and a VAR backup team.
  15. Aug 3, 2019

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    You really can't? It's an official broadcasted match involving Liverpool and Chelsea. I don't think many male refs would reject it.
  16. Aug 3, 2019

    Mrs Smoker Full Member

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    Players, managers, refs, they all love the SuperCups.

    I love it too when my team wins.
  17. Aug 3, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

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    Great to see but when she has a shocker I'm sure the abuse she gets will be solely due to her gender and not because she's actually had a bad game.
  18. Aug 3, 2019

    hocane New Member

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    Massive step up from the woman's game to refereeing a game with Premier League teams.

    National teams often practice against 15 year old boys to prepare for World Cups. If a male ref went from being a referee for under 15 boy teams to being a ref for a premier league game people would call it madness.

    I agree with her having to prove herself in the lower leagues first. Start in the conference league and move you're way up. Earn you're right to be a ref at the highest level like anyone else.
  19. Aug 3, 2019

    Devil77 Full Member

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    Why should that matter? The rules (and the stakes) are the same.
  20. Aug 3, 2019

    jojojo JoJoJoJoJoJo Staff

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    She did. She then progressed to Ligue2, and refereed 75 men's professional games in that division, plus French Cup matches. She has earned the right to be a ref at the highest level. She only started refereeing Ligue1 matches towards the end of last season, but she got there by the standard route, after 5 years in Ligue2.

    She also has a lot of experience at the top level of the women's game, some of which her FA/UEFA/FIFA referee panel mentors will have advised her to do for the good of the women's game - and probably with a promise that it wouldn't negatively affect her chances in the men's game.

    The question is whether the fact that only a couple of her men's matches were in Ligue1 disqualifies her from refereeing what's effectively a UEFA friendly, with VAR to back her up. UEFA and the refereeing panel have decided that it doesn't.
  21. Aug 3, 2019

    Chipper Full Member

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    She has refereed in men's football, but do you really not think it should matter at all? The men's game is faster, don't you think a ref should in theory need to cover more ground and if someone wasn't used to that then they might struggle? It could be a male ref going from refereeing women's to men's football too.
  22. Aug 3, 2019

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Well, the UEFA deemed her fit enough so let's just wait and see.
  23. Aug 3, 2019

    Chipper Full Member

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    Well yeah, but she has done men's games.

    I was replying to someone who didn't think it mattered if she had or hadn't.
  24. Aug 3, 2019

    Devil77 Full Member

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    She is most likely as fast as some of the (older) male refs, so that won’t be an issue. As for experience, she just reffed a WC-final. Of course she’s up for the task.
  25. Aug 3, 2019

    Halftrack Full Member

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    Yeah, that was some mad hyperbole. I'll modify the statement a bit and say that I can't imagine there are many male refs who are bitter or disappointed about Frappart getting the nod ahead of them, at least not anymore than they would be to see another man get it.
    Like she already did, you mean?
  26. Aug 3, 2019

    Untd55 New Member

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    Why? It is clear she does not have the experience and has been chosen because she is a woman. Keep deluding yourself, though.
  27. Aug 3, 2019

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    She has experience, so what's the problem with selecting her ?
  28. Aug 3, 2019

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    It's for the most part men.

    This is however just a PR stunt. Regardless of gender she hasn't got the experience to be handed this game but coming off a WC she probably has better VAR experience than the English refs.
  29. Aug 3, 2019

    0le Full Member

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    Have we just opened a time capsule from the 1960's?
  30. Aug 3, 2019

    lambnchips New Member

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    European games are such a different kettle of fish. I feel like she's going to find herself completely out of her depth trying to control the game.
  31. Aug 3, 2019

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    She is a woman, that's the problem.
  32. Aug 3, 2019

    jojojo JoJoJoJoJoJo Staff

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    To Ligue1/2?
  33. Aug 13, 2019

    Lookatu New Member

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    I've been thinking about this and I reckon there is a media storm regarding the treatment of officials coming after this.
    We have all seen players turning and shouting "f#ck off you pr1ck" at a male referree. Obviously it's something I don't agree with but it happens and has been somewhat accepted. Rooney loved it!
    If a player feels he has been hard done by and turns around and says "f#ck off you b1tch" something tells me that's a massive deal. I could be wrong but can see a "#RefRespect" campaign on the horizon.
  34. Aug 13, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Nah, it’s just UEFA trying to look woke whilst continuing their bent practices behind closed doors.
  35. Aug 13, 2019

    Jacckk1985 New Member

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    Such an amazing news, as top football needs more diversity and as she is qualified for the occasion it's all fitting well.
  36. Aug 14, 2019 at 07:24

    esmufc07 Won the Grand National Sweepstake once Scout

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  37. Aug 14, 2019 at 07:39

    Beagle Full Member

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    This is all good and progressive. But wonder if a female ref will come in for the same mindless abuse male refs get in the PL. Or if they'll be accused of being biased. Or if they'll be intimidated by male players out on the pitch.

    Interesting times.