Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]

vidic blood & sand

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So we know Palpatine is back, but how?
Also, the title of the movie references "Skywalker", but which Skywalker is it referring to?

I have a feeling the fan backlash from the last episode brings Luke Skywalker back from the dead to battle his old nemesis - Palpatine also back from the dead. Not sure how they'd pull this off with any credibility though.

What do you reckon?
 

Mockney

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The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope and yet it still gets lauded so I wouldn't worry too much about people saying it's shit.
I’m probably gonna say it’s shit, tbf.

Certainly won’t be as good as The Last Jedi.
 

vidic blood & sand

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I’m probably gonna say it’s shit, tbf.

Certainly won’t be as good as The Last Jedi.
Probably. In the trailer we hear and read, "the saga comes to an end", "no one's ever really gone". So technically they could bring everyone back. Lando's back, and I heard that Ewan McGregor will be reprising his role as ObiWan. Even Porkins is back (I'm kidding).
 

sullydnl

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Probably. In the trailer we hear and read, "the saga comes to an end", "no one's ever really gone". So technically they could bring everyone back. Lando's back, and I heard that Ewan McGregor will be reprising his role as ObiWan. Even Porkins is back (I'm kidding).
None of that sounds good.
 

Revan

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I’m probably gonna say it’s shit, tbf.

Certainly won’t be as good as The Last Jedi.
Bllah Bllah Bllah.

You were having a point when you were saying that SW is just old men's Harry Potter, but liking The Last Jedi is just taking the piss, and you know it.
 

noodlehair

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The power of obnoxious Star Wars nerds means this film will destroy itself trying to pander to people who will whine about it regardless because it didn't follow the script they invented in their own head.

I'd just make it 2 hours of Jar Jar Binks beating up Han Solo with a three pronged light sabre.
 

Bobski

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Perhaps writing interesting characters would be an improvement? Rey, Finn, Poe and and Kylo Ren have all been rather tedious, and they have failed to make interesting use of the old guard. Behind all the politics and shit fights is a rather uninspired pair of films.
 

noodlehair

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Perhaps writing interesting characters would be an improvement? Rey, Finn, Poe and and Kylo Ren have all been rather tedious, and they have failed to make interesting use of the old guard. Behind all the politics and shit fights is a rather uninspired pair of films.
The first one had some good moments and was ok as a kind of not to fans and the original trilogy.

Making a new trilogy where they kind of just invent the story as they go and also try to pander to a bunch of fans who think everything has to stick like gospel to every film, cartoon or comic/literature produced (including the ones that contradict the other ones), was never going to result in anything other than a mess.

The standard required for your average blockbuster film has also dropped drastically since no one put a stop to Michael Bay after the first Transformers film. The characters for example don't have to be interesting or even actual characters anymore, they just have to be idiots and shout a lot.
 

Art Vandelay

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The first one had some good moments and was ok as a kind of not to fans and the original trilogy.

Making a new trilogy where they kind of just invent the story as they go and also try to pander to a bunch of fans who think everything has to stick like gospel to every film, cartoon or comic/literature produced (including the ones that contradict the other ones), was never going to result in anything other than a mess.


The standard required for your average blockbuster film has also dropped drastically since no one put a stop to Michael Bay after the first Transformers film. The characters for example don't have to be interesting or even actual characters anymore, they just have to be idiots and shout a lot.
They aren't pandering to them though, that's half the problem. They relegated all the original characters to bit part players and made them look weak. Han and Leigh got split up with Han being a bad absent father that gets murdered. Leigh is there to be space Mary Poppins and offer Rey hugs. Luke had a bad dream, tried to murder his nephew and then dies. Chewbacca, 3PO and R2-D2 are just window dressing. If they wanted to pander they could have at least put them together on screen one last time, but they didn't. They just remade a New Hope with worse characters then subverted everyone's expectations with the follow up.

No one is even asking them to stick to comics or literature, they threw that out right at the start and people still went to see the new films until it emerged they just weren't very good. You can't make 3 out of 4 films badly and then somehow blame the fans. They made bad films with badly written characters then when there was backlash they turtled and blamed the fans. Now it's dying, the toys aren't selling, no one has taken to the new characters and the theme park is apparently not doing well. People bring up the literature and comics now, because they were de-canonized and what we got instead is so much worse. At the start though people went along with it when the films came out.

Pandering to fans might have produced better than what we've gotten so far. Instead we've got most of the established characters killed off and replaced with badly written charmless characters that people don't seem to care about. That's alongside a story that's just getting made up as they go along and their own PR disaster.

Is there even anything to care about for anyone in the new film? There's no real story, the characters are shit and the last film is a mess to follow on from. I reckon Red Letter Media are right though and there will be time travel involved.
 

vidic blood & sand

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They aren't pandering to them though, that's half the problem. They relegated all the original characters to bit part players and made them look weak. Han and Leigh got split up with Han being a bad absent father that gets murdered. Leigh is there to be space Mary Poppins and offer Rey hugs. Luke had a bad dream, tried to murder his nephew and then dies. Chewbacca, 3PO and R2-D2 are just window dressing. If they wanted to pander they could have at least put them together on screen one last time, but they didn't. They just remade a New Hope with worse characters then subverted everyone's expectations with the follow up.

No one is even asking them to stick to comics or literature, they threw that out right at the start and people still went to see the new films until it emerged they just weren't very good. You can't make 3 out of 4 films badly and then somehow blame the fans. They made bad films with badly written characters then when there was backlash they turtled and blamed the fans. Now it's dying, the toys aren't selling, no one has taken to the new characters and the theme park is apparently not doing well. People bring up the literature and comics now, because they were de-canonized and what we got instead is so much worse. At the start though people went along with it when the films came out.

Pandering to fans might have produced better than what we've gotten so far. Instead we've got most of the established characters killed off and replaced with badly written charmless characters that people don't seem to care about. That's alongside a story that's just getting made up as they go along and their own PR disaster.

Is there even anything to care about for anyone in the new film? There's no real story, the characters are shit and the last film is a mess to follow on from. I reckon Red Letter Media are right though and there will be time travel involved.
True

Also Kathleen Kennedy's obsessive feminist view of the Star Wars world makes all the males pathetically weak.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Probably. In the trailer we hear and read, "the saga comes to an end", "no one's ever really gone". So technically they could bring everyone back. Lando's back, and I heard that Ewan McGregor will be reprising his role as ObiWan. Even Porkins is back (I'm kidding).
fecking South Park were right with their 'member berries.

Replace creation with nostalgia. Cheap thrills instead of something that has a legacy, ironically cashing in on the back of something that had a legacy. It's the Disney Way!
 

Mr Pigeon

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True

Also Kathleen Kennedy's obsessive feminist view of the Star Wars world makes all the males pathetically weak.
Apart from Rey, who is a strong female character? Leia? Well, she's a Skywalker just like Luke who was also strong.

Rey's just a shitly developed character in the same way that Captain Marvel was, or Thor originally, or any character Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris or Steven Seagull have ever played. She fits the Mary Sue archetype in the same way that those guys fit the - what's the male equivalent - a Captain Kirk? And I mean the proper Mary Sue archetype, not the toxic crap one that gets thrown about.
 

Art Vandelay

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True

Also Kathleen Kennedy's obsessive feminist view of the Star Wars world makes all the males pathetically weak.
Inserting her real world political ideals then using them as both a shield from criticism and a bludgeon to attack and alienate a rabid fanbase that grew up with and loved Star Wars, which was a $4 billion investment, should really have been grounds for sacking. Her leadership whether you agree with her political agenda or not has been absolutely shocking. How she has hired, fired and failed to properly guide directors. How she has let them make the story up as they go along. How she has let them create characters with absolutely no depth. How her lack of care for anything to do with world building, story telling, character development or short, medium or long term planning has somehow lead to Star Wars, fecking Star Wars, losing money.

It's like she's decided to do what George Lucas did in the 70's and 80's while forgetting that he already did it and they could build from it instead of doing it again but worse.
 

Shark

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Shouldn't they at least have an actual lightsaber fight in this?

I mean, the last one was utter trash primarily because they forgot to add even one.
I honestly can’t fathom how TLJ could have been any worse than it was. Everything was wrong, literally everything. You couldn’t pay me to watch it again.
 

Art Vandelay

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Apart from Rey, who is a strong female character? Leia? Well, she's a Skywalker just like Luke who was also strong.

Rey's just a shitly developed character in the same way that Captain Marvel was, or Thor originally, or any character Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris or Steven Seagull have ever played. She fits the Mary Sue archetype in the same way that those guys fit the - what's the male equivalent - a Captain Kirk? And I mean the proper Mary Sue archetype, not the toxic crap one that gets thrown about.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Arnie's characters in his better films aren't Mary Sue's, in Conan he gets killed, Terminator killed by an actual strong female character, Terminator 2 smacked around by a better model and then kills himself, Predator loses his entire squad and just about survives himself. He's playing elite characters, cyborgs, commandos etc. that are supposed to be competent.

Rey's character is an orphan on a desert planet, she's not supposed to be particularly competent, yet she can do anything including besting Luke Skywalker. Luke in a New Hope needed rescuing several times, could barely hold a gun and actually required training. The X-Wing flying at the end is a bit much, but he's at least got some experience in his T-16 back home. Rey is just just automatically great at everything despite being a character that shouldn't be, which isn't really what Arnie's/Chuck Norris/Steven Seagull's characters are. I'm not saying they are all good characters, just that there are at least some mitigating factors.
 

2 man midfield

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Rey's character is an orphan on a desert planet, she's not supposed to be particularly competent, yet she can do anything including besting Luke Skywalker. Luke in a New Hope needed rescuing several times, could barely hold a gun and actually required training. The X-Wing flying at the end is a bit much, but he's at least got some experience in his T-16 back home. Rey is just just automatically great at everything despite being a character that shouldn't be, which isn't really what Arnie's/Chuck Norris/Steven Seagull's characters are. I'm not saying they are all good characters, just that there are at least some mitigating factors.
Someone will be along in a minute to point out that because it takes place in space, and features flying teddy bears and lasers that some things are allowed to make no sense whatsoever.
 

Art Vandelay

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Someone will be along in a minute to point out that because it takes place in space, and features flying teddy bears and lasers that some things are allowed to make no sense whatsoever.
Someone will then point out that space or not, some world building has been established hence the point about Luke and that if you could just point to space and teddy bears to hand waive everything then why bother with a story or characters at all? Although I suppose they haven't bothered with a story or characters.
 

2 man midfield

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Someone will then point out that space or not, some world building has been established hence the point about Luke and that if you could just point to space and teddy bears to hand waive everything then why bother with a story or characters at all? Although I suppose they haven't bothered with a story or characters.
I'm not one of them, if that wasn't clear :lol:

I just remember complaining after TFA and Rogue One came out that certain things were lacking character wise, realism being one. I was basically told that if realism is so important, why watch a fantasy film in the first place?
 

Art Vandelay

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I'm not one of them, if that wasn't clear :lol:

I just remember complaining after TFA and Rogue One came out that certain things were lacking character wise, realism being one. I was basically told that if realism is so important, why watch a fantasy film in the first place?
:lol: Sorry I wasn't sure so I went with that opening line.

I think the problem might be the word realism, I've had the same issue in the past. Consistent story telling and world building is probably a better description of the problem. Space and fantasy need rules for the story to fit inside, otherwise there's no conflict and nothing feels compelling as anyone can just do anything whenever. Much like Rey can.
 

2 man midfield

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:lol: Sorry I wasn't sure so I went with that opening line.

I think the problem might be the word realism, I've had the same issue in the past. Consistent story telling and world building is probably a better description of the problem. Space and fantasy need rules for the story to fit inside, otherwise there's no conflict and nothing feels compelling as anyone can just do anything whenever. Much like Rey can.
Exactly.
 

sullydnl

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For anyone who hasn't seen it.

All of that sounds awful. Which, as they say, wouldn't be surprising with JJ Abrams and the writer of BvS & Justice League running things. I literally don't think it's possible for that combination to make a good film.
 

kps88

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All of that sounds awful. Which, as they say, wouldn't be surprising with JJ Abrams and the writer of BvS & Justice League running things. I literally don't think it's possible for that combination to make a good film.
To be fair he also wrote Argo, for which he won an Oscar. And he shared writing credits on those two DC movies. It's likely Goyer and Snyder had more of a say than him.
 

Sweet Square

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All of that sounds awful. Which, as they say, wouldn't be surprising with JJ Abrams and the writer of BvS & Justice League running things. I literally don't think it's possible for that combination to make a good film.
Its amazing that someone with these credits is still well......getting any work. Which is basically the one consistent theme of the new star wars movies(And really any giant franchise) - poor to average writers/directors getting huge movie deals.

To be fair he also wrote Argo, for which he won an Oscar. And he shared writing credits on those two DC movies. It's likely Goyer and Snyder had more of a say than him.
And this won best film editing


In fairness there is a chance he had very little to do with the DC movies(Considering just how much of a shit show they are.)
 

sullydnl

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To be fair he also wrote Argo, for which he won an Oscar.
He did, just as Benioff and Weiss won Emmys for Game of Thrones. I still fully expect their Star Wars films to be awful too though.
 

kps88

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Ok chaps I would argue Fargo was better written than both GoT and Bohemian Rhapsody.