Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]

[Mr Pigeon]

Two decent movies, the last one being in 1980. Then a string of disappointments or average-at-best films. I don't get why this franchise still has fans.

Because in our hearts we all secretly want to be Sith Lords.

 

[DixieDean]

@hungrywing I'm easily pleased. One line acknowledging Luke's actions in TLJ would have gone a long way.

Have you seen Knives out? I thought it was his best film yet. And I'm not geeky about screenplays but I thought it was very sharp.

Also, I saw the RedLettterMedia 'review' of TLJ. It was crap.

 

[noodlehair]

I thought it was decent enough. Basically though 95% of what happened in the second and third films, happened in this one. It felt like this was two films crammed into one with characters just being rammed in or cropping up out of nowhere, like that bicycle helmet lady. Almost like they just randomly got someone else to make the second film or something...

Also I'm extremely confused about what jedi/sith can or can't do. They can bring other people back from the dead now? Rey can levitate and float rocks around her but then has to struggle to climb up a broken spaceship? Ren can just grab things from places he isn't at? Wouldn't this eliminate the need to ever you know, actually go anywhere?

Probably the least boring of any Star Wars films since the original trilogy though. I mean I loved episode 1 when it came out, but I was about 8 years old.

This one every scene was part of the main story or at least had loads of stuff exploding. No pointless side trecks to rescue a bunch of alien horses from a barn or anything, or prolonged galactic debates about trade blockades

 

[evil_geko]

I thought it was decent enough. Basically though 95% of what happened in the second and third films, happened in this one. It felt like this was two films crammed into one with characters just being rammed in or cropping up out of nowhere, like that bicycle helmet lady. Almost like they just randomly got someone else to make the second film or something...

Also I'm extremely confused about what jedi/sith can or can't do. They can bring other people back from the dead now? Rey can levitate and float rocks around her but then has to struggle to climb up a broken spaceship? Ren can just grab things from places he isn't at? Wouldn't this eliminate the need to ever you know, actually go anywhere?

Probably the least boring of any Star Wars films since the original trilogy though. I mean I loved episode 1 when it came out, but I was about 8 years old.

This one every scene was part of the main story or at least had loads of stuff exploding. No pointless side trecks to rescue a bunch of alien horses from a barn or anything, or prolonged galactic debates about trade blockades

About "grabbing things from places he isn't at", that is just a thing because of this: "Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker gave some insight to Ben and Rey's relationship. They are a Force Dyad, an abstract power that essentially makes them Force soulmates. They are two parts of a very powerful whole, but the movie barely explains what that means, or how it affects them when one dies."

They can only grab or interact with things near each other etc.

I hate this dyad thing but there you go.

 

[2 man midfield]

Did JJ actually sit down and think that up? Or is it just something they threw into one of the comics to explain bad writing?

 

[berbatrick]

Did JJ actually sit down and think that up? Or is it just something they threw into one of the comics to explain bad writing?

i havent seen the film but opened the thread by mistake. force bonds exist in 2 star wars games but they work a little differently (you understand the other person better and are drawn to them/you can feel the other's pain). and in both the games there's a lot of backstory about why 2 charaters have such a bind, not sure if ep 9 does taht with these two.

 

[Zarlak]

I thought it was decent enough. Basically though 95% of what happened in the second and third films, happened in this one. It felt like this was two films crammed into one with characters just being rammed in or cropping up out of nowhere, like that bicycle helmet lady. Almost like they just randomly got someone else to make the second film or something...

Also I'm extremely confused about what jedi/sith can or can't do. They can bring other people back from the dead now? Rey can levitate and float rocks around her but then has to struggle to climb up a broken spaceship? Ren can just grab things from places he isn't at? Wouldn't this eliminate the need to ever you know, actually go anywhere?

Probably the least boring of any Star Wars films since the original trilogy though. I mean I loved episode 1 when it came out, but I was about 8 years old.

This one every scene was part of the main story or at least had loads of stuff exploding. No pointless side trecks to rescue a bunch of alien horses from a barn or anything, or prolonged galactic debates about trade blockades

They explained it in the prequels with the whole Darth Plagueis the wise storyline about bringing people back from the dead and that you can't learn the power from a Jedi. It's inferred that Palpatine has this power, so I guess it's in Rey's blood though no idea how it manifested, like what she one day just tried to resurrect someone for shits and giggles.

I think the worst bit about what Jedi/Sith can/can't do is the revelation that Luke can hold lightsabers and use the force as a ghost. Why isn't he, Yoda, Mace Windu, Darth Vader, Obi Wan, Qui Gon and every single ghost of the Jedi that died to Order 66 not just out there fighting Palpatine - that bit was bizarre.

 

[noodlehair]

About "grabbing things from places he isn't at", that is just a thing because of this: "Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker gave some insight to Ben and Rey's relationship. They are a Force Dyad, an abstract power that essentially makes them Force soulmates. They are two parts of a very powerful whole, but the movie barely explains what that means, or how it affects them when one dies."

They can only grab or interact with things near each other etc.

I hate this dyad thing but there you go.

Well, that's a lazy plot device at best. Its such a lazy plot device that they had to use that necklace scene as another lazy plot device to introduce this lazy plot device.

I mean I'll take it as at the end of the day it's a film saga about a bunch of weirdos who go around fighting with swords despite having access to space guns and being able to control anything they want with their minds, but still.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The more I think about it, the more i am amazed that Disney allowed this trilogy to be made without an over-arching story in mind.

I understand they wanted to give (at the time) 3 directors to take the reigns and tell a story, but its a feckin' trilogy... how can you rely on 3 completely different minds to independently tell a coherent story? It's baffling

 

[hungrywing]

@hungrywing I'm easily pleased. One line acknowledging Luke's actions in TLJ would have gone a long way.

I totally get what you're saying. There are lines in Rise that worked like that for me; rolling my eyes one second and then, ok, you got me there. It's not an exact science - different things work on different people. If you could tailor everything to every individual it'd be amazing (and might be an interesting project for VR filmmaking)

While it's not an exact science, it is however a probabilistic one, and if we're just talking those Gandalf shows up on the third day, Ride of the Rohirrim (neither works for me personally) 'Give 'em hell, fifty-forth!' (from Glory, gets me every single time), Lando arrives with the fleet, (doesn't work), the temptation of Aragorn (works every time), You're all clear kid, now let's blow this thing and go home! (wait, what did you say?) - if we're talking about the 'cavalry's-here-oh-you-guys-are-so-dead-now' big moment when all seems lost, then conventionally speaking it does that take those forty-ish minutes to make sure the most amount of people will get that reaction.

Have you seen Knives out? I thought it was his best film yet. And I'm not geeky about screenplays but I thought it was very sharp.

No one like that here. That being said:

No, I haven't seen Knives Out but have read the screenplay. Exactly like his other films. Good, not great/nothing special. It was well-enough crafted, but that's RJ's 'forte': genre collage. He takes from precedents and crafts his own thing, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that if you make it well. Brick is a patchwork of a lot of film noir references set against high school. Looper was a bunch of sci-fi/anime conventions collaged together; heck the ending references Bruce Willis' own 12 Monkeys. Same with Knives. It was a lot of famous murder mystery/

Spoiler

mistaken-guilt

elements woven together against a soap opera/fairy tale ('social justice'/contemporary American race dynamics/Cinderella story).

There were a few major problems but it was fine. And they could have fixed those problems in filming. (From what I heard, they didn't)

Also, I saw the RedLettterMedia 'review' of TLJ. It was crap.

TLJ is complicated to discuss. As mentioned to another poster there are just boatloads of missing/wrong parts that are really really hard to explain/make excuses for. But almost by the same token there are also some signs that he was trying to do certain things 'the right way'.

 

[DixieDean]

The more I think about it, the more i am amazed that Disney allowed this trilogy to be made without an over-arching story in mind.

I understand they wanted to give (at the time) 3 directors to take the reigns and tell a story, but its a feckin' trilogy... how can you rely on 3 completely different minds to independently tell a coherent story? It's baffling

There is conflicting info out there on that. There were ideas that used that were around for years, even stuff from before Lucas sold the company. The 'no plan' narrative largely comes from giving director relative free rein within the context of a general outline. I suspect Lucasfilm was trying to invoke the spirit of the OG trilogy, which was largely done on the fly.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

There is conflicting info out there on that. There were ideas that used that were around for years, even stuff from before Lucas sold the company. The 'no plan' narrative largely comes from giving director relative free rein within the context of a general outline. I suspect Lucasfilm was trying to invoke the spirit of the OG trilogy, which was largely done on the fly.

Largely done on the fly but with one key man calling the shots.

They should have either committed to it and given this 3rd to another director (maybe give Edwards a shot after the success of Rogue One?) or just given Abrams all 3 (or RJ all 3... or at least the last two)

 

[sullydnl]

Largely done on the fly but with one key man calling the shots.

They should have either committed to it and given this 3rd to another director (maybe give Edwards a shot after the success of Rogue One?) or just given Abrams all 3 (or RJ all 3... or at least the last two)

In fairness to Disney, there were stories suggesting they had originally sought to have JJ direct all three but he wasn't interested, which is when they opted for three different directors. There were also stories suggesting that when Trevorrow fell through as director for the third film they had initially looked at having RJ direct the final film but he declined. We already know for sure that having JJ direct two films wasn't their Plan A and if either or both those stories are true then what we got wasn't plan b/c either.

Plus a key point is that when Trevorrow left EP.9 they were suddenly left months behind in production. As much as anything else, they probably saw JJ as a safe pair of hands in terms of actually getting the films finished under that time pressure.

 

[Redlambs]

Meh, should have ended with a double ender of Luke and Leia's sabers.

 

[hungrywing]

Meh, should have ended with a double ender of Luke and Leia's sabers.

No no. Rey getting into Luke's X-wing and flying towards the sun and then reversing and flying towards the camera like the end of Back to the Future.

 

[Zen86]

No no. Rey getting into Luke's X-wing and flying towards the sun and then reversing and flying towards the camera like the end of Back to the Future.

This, preferably when she discovers there’s suddenly a new empire and an even bigger Death Star take on in the next trilogy.

 

[hungrywing]

This, preferably when she discovers there’s suddenly a new empire and an even bigger Death Star take on in the next trilogy.

No, no. She's literally going to end up on Tatooine in the past and meet young Luke. And she's going to help him blow up the first Death Star.

 

[Zen86]

No, no. She's literally going to end up on Tatooine in the past and meet young Luke. And she's going to help him blow up the first Death Star.

I like it. Maybe she could end up at the Palpatine household for afternoon tea and discover how socially awkward her parents were

 

[Art Vandelay]

No, no. She's literally going to end up on Tatooine in the past and meet young Luke. And she's going to help him blow up the first Death Star.

Why would she help him? Surely she'd just tell him he's shit and stupid then do it herself. Then steal his name anyway.

 

[hungrywing]

I like it. Maybe she could end up at the Palpatine household for afternoon tea and discover how socially awkward her parents were

Why would she help him? Surely she'd just tell him he's shit and stupid then do it herself. Then steal his name anyway.

Ok we're doing both. The tea thing is awesome. So her grandpa is there but he doesn't know that she's his granddaughter from the future. This movie-making thing is easier than it looks.

Also realized the bolded part means someone's probably going to deepfake her into the OT and get internet-famous.

 

[DixieDean]

Why would she help him? Surely she'd just tell him he's shit and stupid then do it herself. Then steal his name anyway.

But she liked Luke?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Saw it again. Like it now, and best of the new trilogy.

Spoiler

I actually like the force heal stuff now. Ben successfully achieved the power his grandfather seeked and had turned him to the dark side. Rey and Ben managed to successfully use it because, of course, it's a light side power.

Although I still have problems with the opening crawl and "Emperor Palpatine is alive somehow". Look; either have the first fifteen minutes be the end of the second movie with the big reveal, or explain it. Don't be lazy and hope some writer in the future does a spin off book.

 

[Jim Beam]

Love it, absolute shit. Hope they make another trilogy.

 

[NJM78]

I love everything and anything Star Wars...I will even watch another trilogy if it was all directed by Ole.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Saw it again. Like it now, and best of the new trilogy.

Spoiler

I actually like the force heal stuff now. Ben successfully achieved the power his grandfather seeked and had turned him to the dark side.

Although I still have problems with the opening crawl and "Emperor Palpatine is alive somehow". Look; either have the first fifteen minutes be the end of the second movie with the big reveal, or explain it. Don't be lazy and hope some writer in the future does a spin off book.

Agreed.

Spoiler: Blasé

was way too blasé and a big reveal would've been so much better. I loved the Palpatine stuff but they missed a trick here. Should've kept his laugh from the trailer and met him first when Kylo Ren arrives on Exegol, would've been epic.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Agreed.

Spoiler: Blasé

was way too blasé and a big reveal would've been so much better. I loved the Palpatine stuff but they missed a trick here. Should've kept his laugh from the trailer and met him first when Kylo Ren arrives on Exegol, would've been epic.

Yeah you're right, that would have been quite sweet.

It also annoyed me how Lando was practically just chucked into the film. Billy Dee Williams just can't act anymore. For some daft reason he reminded me of Buzz Aldrin when he was on Sesame Street (watch it three times a day because the bairn loves it). Not comfortable in front of the camera, just reciting his lines rather than making it look like a real conversation.

Spoiler

his role gathering all the ships should have been Finn and Rose's and part of the B plotline, and Poe should have been the one to try and take out the command ship. Would have made the moment when the other ships came better because Finn would have been the one to save his friend when Poe thought all was lost. Lando could've been one of the people Finn and Rose met and the one who they finally persuaded to join them, causing the rest to help, if they were absolutely desperate to have him in it.

But, you know, if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle...

 

[Jagga7]

That was dreadful. A truly awful ending to an awful trilogy. Pacing, story telling, character arcs were all over the place.
Finn's entire role in the film was to run after Rey and shout her name. They should have just killed the poor guy off.

 

[padr81]

That was dreadful. A truly awful ending to an awful trilogy. Pacing, story telling, character arcs were all over the place.
Finn's entire role in the film was to run after Rey and shout her name. They should have just killed the poor guy off.

In a Disney movie, can you imagine the backlash?

 

[Ekeke]

I'd give it a 6.6 to 6.8 out of 10, better than the previous one but not as good as the force awakens. Fairly mediocre family sci fi with an expensive budget

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's really really shit.

The action is entertaining enough to make it not an utter chore, but yeah, it's a pointless end to a really pointless trilogy of films.

 

[sullydnl]

Really these films highlight what a fluke that original trilogy was.

I mean on paper the first film could have easily been a flop. Even as is it isn't actually a particularly well made film. Then you have the third film, about half of which is ewoky nonsense. And huge amounts of the overall trilogy were made up as they went along. For example, randomly making two characters brother/sister towards the end of the final film is the sort of plot twist that would be slaughtered nowawdays. All of this being overseen by someone who would later go on to make one of the worst films of the 90's and one of the worst films of the 00's.

I'm not sure it would be possible to spin a massive franchise out of that these days. Yet somehow people just went with it.

 

[VP89]

I didn't even think the original trilogy was all that. A lot of people are just hell bent on nostalgia. This current trilogy I thought was superb. But it's just my opinion

 

[Ubik]

Really these films highlight what a fluke that original trilogy was.

I mean on paper the first film could have easily been a flop. Even as is it isn't actually a particularly well made film. Then you have the third film, about half of which is ewoky nonsense. And huge amounts of the overall trilogy were made up as they went along. For example, randomly making two characters brother/sister towards the end of the final film is the sort of plot twist that would be slaughtered nowawdays. All of this being overseen by someone who would later go on to make one of the worst films of the 90's and one of the worst films of the 00's.

I'm not sure it would be possible to spin a massive franchise out of that these days. Yet somehow people just went with it.

The original is fascinating because it was total lightning in a bottle stuff - McQuarrie's concept art, Burtt's sound design, Williams's score, the perfect cast (I mean just imagine if Harrison Ford doesn't come in to help out on script readings so doesn't end up cast as Han, or Lucas keeps the character as a massive reptile thing). It's mad that it ended up working. But that's also credit to Lucas because it was only his stubborn determination that got all those elements together and got it made, and his business smarts that allowed him to be as mad as to send his lead to spend half of the sequel with a muppet.

It's a shame that same stubbornness led to him thinking he had to write and direct the prequels, because the germ of the idea was good and could've been interesting. Watching Driver kill it in these just emphasises how far wide of the mark they got it with Anakin.

 

[Ekeke]

Really these films highlight what a fluke that original trilogy was.

I mean on paper the first film could have easily been a flop. Even as is it isn't actually a particularly well made film. Then you have the third film, about half of which is ewoky nonsense. And huge amounts of the overall trilogy were made up as they went along. For example, randomly making two characters brother/sister towards the end of the final film is the sort of plot twist that would be slaughtered nowawdays. All of this being overseen by someone who would later go on to make one of the worst films of the 90's and one of the worst films of the 00's.

I'm not sure it would be possible to spin a massive franchise out of that these days. Yet somehow people just went with it.

I think the special effects were always a big part of the success. If you take them away I dont think the writing and storyline was ever that impressive. All the special effects and bright lights are pretty good for younger people or people watching with their family.

 

[Reiver]

Saw it today after being extremely reluctant after the shit show that was The Last Jedi. This will probably be obvious but I'll admit to being a Star Wars fanboy and I make no apologies for that.
I thought it was a massive improvement over Episode 8, I'll say that from the start. A few moments really got me emotional: Chewie's reaction to Leia's death; Luke's force ghost and him raising his X-wing out of the water to the same score that Yoda did in Empire; the fleet that turned up in the final battle.
The things I didn't like, : some of the scenes with Leia and Rey felt like they were just added in because they had the footage; some of the scenes with Palpatine just felt like WTF is he talking about; what was with Leia and Ben's bodies disappearing?
Ultimately a decent ending to the trilogy that struggled to make up for the utter shite that was The Last Jedi.

 

[Asger]

Saw it today after being extremely reluctant after the shit show that was The Last Jedi. This will probably be obvious but I'll admit to being a Star Wars fanboy and I make no apologies for that.
I thought it was a massive improvement over Episode 8, I'll say that from the start. A few moments really got me emotional: Chewie's reaction to Leia's death; Luke's force ghost and him raising his X-wing out of the water to the same score that Yoda did in Empire; the fleet that turned up in the final battle.
The things I didn't like, : some of the scenes with Leia and Rey felt like they were just added in because they had the footage; some of the scenes with Palpatine just felt like WTF is he talking about; what was with Leia and Ben's bodies disappearing?
Ultimately a decent ending to the trilogy that struggled to make up for the utter shite that was The Last Jedi.

It was the same when Yoda and Luke died.

 

[GBBQ]

It was the same when Yoda and Luke died.

And Obi Wan in the very first movie. @Reiver are you sure you're a fanboy?

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Vader's didn't.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Saw it today after being extremely reluctant after the shit show that was The Last Jedi. This will probably be obvious but I'll admit to being a Star Wars fanboy and I make no apologies for that.
I thought it was a massive improvement over Episode 8, I'll say that from the start. A few moments really got me emotional: Chewie's reaction to Leia's death; Luke's force ghost and him raising his X-wing out of the water to the same score that Yoda did in Empire; the fleet that turned up in the final battle.
The things I didn't like, : some of the scenes with Leia and Rey felt like they were just added in because they had the footage; some of the scenes with Palpatine just felt like WTF is he talking about; what was with Leia and Ben's bodies disappearing?
Ultimately a decent ending to the trilogy that struggled to make up for the utter shite that was The Last Jedi.

Fanboy?

I agree with everything in your post except you being a fanboi, if you don’t remember disapperaing bodies in Star Wars, you aint no fanboy.

 

[RedSky]

Saw it today after being extremely reluctant after the shit show that was The Last Jedi. This will probably be obvious but I'll admit to being a Star Wars fanboy and I make no apologies for that.
I thought it was a massive improvement over Episode 8, I'll say that from the start. A few moments really got me emotional: Chewie's reaction to Leia's death; Luke's force ghost and him raising his X-wing out of the water to the same score that Yoda did in Empire; the fleet that turned up in the final battle.
The things I didn't like, : some of the scenes with Leia and Rey felt like they were just added in because they had the footage; some of the scenes with Palpatine just felt like WTF is he talking about; what was with Leia and Ben's bodies disappearing?
Ultimately a decent ending to the trilogy that struggled to make up for the utter shite that was The Last Jedi.

Chewies reaction was probably the best bit of the entire film.
Lukes force ghost raising the xwing made me laugh, it's just another example of JJ doing what he likes and making the whole story a joke.
The fleet turning up was expected but a genuine cringe moment. They'd written themselves into a hole and decided to have the entire Galaxy show up to help.

I'll give it another watch in a few months but i'm a star wars fanboi, enjoyed parts of Last Jedi (I liked some of the story but the film made some bad errors), I actually found this film funny and not in a good way.