Steve Cooper

ThehatchetMan

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42 years old
Quit football at 23 to pursue coaching
Coached Wrexham and Liverpool youth teams for 15 years
Won the U17 World Cup as England manager
Took a midtable Swansea side to playoff semi final and final in his first two seasons
Took over a Forest side 8 games into the season, bottom of the table (and 17th last season) to the playoff finals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Cooper_(football_manager)

3 seasons in club management and taken outsiders to playoff semi once and final twice.

Surely the most exciting young British coach right now?
 

V.O.

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That's a hell of a story. Welsh league playing career and coaching Wrexham's kids for a decade to potentially managing in the PL.

Poor bloke fell out of the ugly tree and hit every single branch on the way down, though.
 

ThehatchetMan

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Howe is only 2 year older so surely fits in the "young manager" catagory. He's doing a good job with Newcastle.
Then there's Potter who is 46, but a quality coach too. I hope a top club takes a chance on him.
Both are also very good shouts!

I guess Steve Cooper is a bit more of an unknown entity having not managed in the PL yet. Hopefully Forest win the playoff and we can see how he fares! Great young manager none the less!

Nathan Jones at Luton has also had an excellent season and is relatively young. Had a terrible spell at Stoke though.
 

Zen

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And well, Gerrard - who's actually younger. But has had the ultra luxury of ultra fame though. But he's looked fairly good.... if it's the story you're more sold by though, expect it to become more common, data analytics is unreal now and more Sacchi's aren't far off from breaking through, Nagelsmann never actually played, AVB too, but he was probably just a little too soon.
 

ThehatchetMan

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And well, Gerrard - who's actually younger. But has had the ultra luxury of ultra fame though. But he's looked fairly good.... if it's the story you're more sold by though, expect it to become more common, data analytics is unreal now and more Sacchi's aren't far off from breaking through, Nagelsmann never actually played, AVB too, but he was probably just a little too soon.
While Gerrard has done well, I don’t think he’s actually exceeded expectations at any clubs? Won the title with Rangers and no other cups in two seasons. And hasn’t exactly done anything spectacular at Villa yet.

Maybe best young British coach is an exaggeration. But he’s certainly up there in terms of potential.

Also if the league had of started when Cooper took over at Forest, Forest would have won the league.
 

arthurka

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He looks like he has something about him. His players were running full pelt and giving absolutely everything in extra time. Hope he gets the promotion and we can see his team setup in the PL.
 

duffer

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While Gerrard has done well, I don’t think he’s actually exceeded expectations at any clubs? Won the title with Rangers and no other cups in two seasons. And hasn’t exactly done anything spectacular at Villa yet.

Maybe best young British coach is an exaggeration. But he’s certainly up there in terms of potential.

Also if the league had of started when Cooper took over at Forest, Forest would have won the league.
In fairness, it was Rangers first title in a 10 years.
 

Zen

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While Gerrard has done well, I don’t think he’s actually exceeded expectations at any clubs? Won the title with Rangers and no other cups in two seasons. And hasn’t exactly done anything spectacular at Villa yet.

Maybe best young British coach is an exaggeration. But he’s certainly up there in terms of potential.

Also if the league had of started when Cooper took over at Forest, Forest would have won the league.
I'm not sure I overly agree, he rebuilt Rangers... a core that's now potentially going to win in Europe based strongly off his work there. Villa is a tougher task, their expectations are probably out of whack with their actual muscle, what he's actually implementing though will see him shortlisted for most vacancies at bigger clubs that come up, albeit possibly not successfully at first, regardless of how well they do compared to perceived expectations.

Villa are just genuinely better under him, calmer, confident and more assertive. There's a potentially truly great manager in him in my opinion, and a very positive one at that, he seems a bit unique as an Golden Generation era ex-playing manager, Howe and Rodgers have similar methods and traits, but they weren't elite players. If he can outperform them in the League next year, that'd be impressive.
 

Remember the geese

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Villa are just genuinely better under him, calmer, confident and more assertive.
I genuinely fail to see this so far. I think they looked better last season under Smith. Early days though and I remain open to the idea of him possibly being a decent manager.
 

Red the Bear

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Impressive job he's done so far but even if he gets them to pl and does well, I'll doubt he gets the opportunity to take the next step, exotic continental names (perhaps justifiably) are much more likely to get the nod than his kin, just look at how Potter has languished at Brighton.
 

V.O.

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Impressive job he's done so far but even if he gets them to pl and does well, I'll doubt he gets the opportunity to take the next step, exotic continental names (perhaps justifiably) are much more likely to get the nod than his kin, just look at how Potter has languished at Brighton.
Getting fecking Brighton to the top half is "languishing" now? :lol:
 

Red the Bear

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Getting fecking Brighton to the top half is "languishing" now? :lol:
It's not really the peak of football managing is it?
 

V.O.

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It's not really the peak of football managing is it?
Their highest ever league finish before now was 13th in 1983.

It literally is the peak of their 120 year history.
 

Zen

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I genuinely fail to see this so far. I think they looked better last season under Smith. Early days though and I remain open to the idea of him possibly being a decent manager.
That's fine, but you are looking at results or more clinical aspect I feel, and well it is a results driven sport of course. But the eye test on the pitch shows it for me, and plenty of data backs it up, which is why, unless he falls off a cliff somehow, he's nailed on for a big job - for instance, he's lost 5 games this year where Villa were, for almost any metric, the better team and should of won, they were also the better team against us in the 2-2. 6 results that were wildly off their data suggestions, on the flip side.... they gained points in 2 games that suggested otherwise, that's some wild swing in luck(or just well, being more clinical, whatever, but it's still a bit out of line with normality), likely worth circa 5-8pts.... which would put them top 9th or 8th, despite the horrendous start to the season.

The target next year is challenging West Ham, but that's also Newcastle and Leicesters target... tough company to be in that middle pack, it's actually pretty deep this league.

Mind you, I'm pretty certain the Coutinho signing flops next year.
 

Red the Bear

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Their highest ever league finish before now was 13th in 1983.

It literally is the peak of their 120 year history.
I meant for him, he's not been afforded the chance to manage a higher level club even though his performance in my opinion warrants it.
Tottenham went for nuno and Arsenal has insisted on arteta for example.
I won't count the likes of Lampard and gerard as the opportunities they get rests largely on the shoulders of their playing career achievements.
 

V.O.

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I meant for him, he's not been afforded the chance to manage a higher level club even though his performance in my opinion warrants it.
Tottenham went for nuno and Arsenal has insisted on arteta for example.
I won't count the likes of Lampard and gerard as the opportunities they get rests largely on the shoulders of their playing career achievements.
Ah, alright then. I took the word "justifiably" in your first post to mean that he'd rightly been overlooked and deserved to be at a more lowly club like Brighton.

I still think there's every chance he gets his shot at somewhere like Spurs if Conte goes, but yeah, someone with a more fashionable continental name does tend to get those chances quicker (Nuno is a very good example) - and Cooper will probably fall victim to the shame phenomenon even if he gets Forest up and does well at PL level.
 

marktan

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I meant for him, he's not been afforded the chance to manage a higher level club even though his performance in my opinion warrants it.
Tottenham went for nuno and Arsenal has insisted on arteta for example.
I won't count the likes of Lampard and gerard as the opportunities they get rests largely on the shoulders of their playing career achievements.
I think the rumour was that Potter turned Spurs down.

I rate Potter highly but I think the Brighton setup suits him well, he's benefited from the phenomenal recruitment team they have (for their level). It's always hard to tell whether if you remove that aspect how well a manager does. Tuchel for instance is a top tactician and coach, but the Lukaku signing was a horrendous idea. The top top managers like SAF and Klopp either can do it all or have a strong team to guide them on recruitment (and from what I've read on Klopp he's both very good at evaluating players to sign and Liverpool have a great scout team to recommend players).

Likewise Cooper has been very impressive and from what I've read is a very good coach, but the transfers at Forest over the last year or two have been really, really good. Hard to know whether that's down to the club structure or the manager's nose for players. Anyway the point I'm making is that you can be a great coach, a great tactician, a great man manager, a great leader, a great opposition analyst, but say if you fail at building a team it could end very badly very quickly at a new team. Howe was also somewhat victim to this - he made quite a lot of poor signings at Bournemouth towards the end and now benefits from others taking care of transfers with an unlimited budget at Newcastle. The trend towards having strong recruitment teams / football analyst cultures at clubs like Brighton and Brentford should in general help managers like Potter flourish.

I'd love Potter at United for instance and think he'd do well but our biggest issue over the last 10 years has been transfers, and theres no way to evaluate how much of an input he's had into the signings Brighton have made and thus how good he is at it.
 

Red the Bear

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Ah, alright then. I took the word "justifiably" in your first post to mean that he'd rightly been overlooked and deserved to be at a more lowly club like Brighton.

I still think there's every chance he gets his shot at somewhere like Spurs if Conte goes, but yeah, someone with a more fashionable continental name does tend to get those chances quicker (Nuno is a very good example) - and Cooper will probably fall victim to the shame phenomenon even if he gets Forest up and does well at PL level.
We were basically on the same page :lol:
Anyway it's really a big problem in the premier league as other leagues seem much more inclined to afford chances to local coaches and managers and it's really hampering the growth of English managers.
I mean I guess I could understand why they do it(continental managers being being well versed in several languages perhaps) but overall it's not really good for the British game in my opinion (English managers sure didn't have any problem in dominating Europe in 1970s and 1980s so surely they're not that much worse compared to then).
 

Red the Bear

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I think the rumour was that Potter turned Spurs down.

I rate Potter highly but I think the Brighton setup suits him well, he's benefited from the phenomenal recruitment team they have (for their level). It's always hard to tell whether if you remove that aspect how well a manager does. Tuchel for instance is a top tactician and coach, but the Lukaku signing was a horrendous idea. The top top managers like SAF and Klopp either can do it all or have a strong team to guide them on recruitment (and from what I've read on Klopp he's both very good at evaluating players to sign and Liverpool have a great scout team to recommend players).

Likewise Cooper has been very impressive and from what I've read is a very good coach, but the transfers at Forest over the last year or two have been really, really good. Hard to know whether that's down to the club structure or the manager's nose for players. Anyway the point I'm making is that you can be a great coach, a great tactician, a great man manager, a great leader, a great opposition analyst, but say if you fail at building a team it could end very badly very quickly at a new team. Howe was also somewhat victim to this - he made quite a lot of poor signings at Bournemouth towards the end and now benefits from others taking care of transfers with an unlimited budget at Newcastle. The trend towards having strong recruitment teams / football analyst cultures at clubs like Brighton and Brentford should in general help managers like Potter flourish.

I'd love Potter at United for instance and think he'd do well but our biggest issue over the last 10 years has been transfers, and theres no way to evaluate how much of an input he's had into the signings Brighton have made and thus how good he is at it.
Fair enough, didn't know about that.

Still i feel there definitely is a lack of trust for the local talent in the English game, the percentage of Spanish managers is for example much higher in la liga than British ones for the premier league.

Its not really beneficial overall i feel, just look at how easily countries like German , Italy and Spain churn out managerial prospects one after another while the British game lags behind, hell the last English manager to win the league was our very own sir Alex and he started his career in 1970s!
 
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SambaBoy

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He's done a great job at Forest no doubt, but he's more of a defensive minded manager from what I understand? I think the Swansea fans were happy with the progress they made under him but admitted his football could be quite dour. A lot of Forest results have been 1-0 wins or by the odd goal. He can definitely set up a team to be resilient and eke out results, it'll be interesting to see how they fare in the Prem if they make it there.
 

Champ

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Cooper is undoubtedly the best coach at Championship level in the country right now.
He gets his team's playing in a pleasing and efficient manner, usually with roaming wingbacks and a proper striker in the box.

Can seemingly work miracles with little in the way of transfer budgets.

What he did for Swansea last season and Forest for this is nothing short of spectacular.

Deserves every plaudit he gets whether they make the premiership or not.