Strange infantilised coverage of women's football

[Bertie Wooster]

The broadcasters feel they have to act as PR reps for it, as they do for most sports. I watch some Rugby League and they'll dig around for something positive (young team, loyal crowd, injuries, new signings etc) to say even when teams are getting hammered. That's the treatment most sports get.

I understand it - I get swept along with BBC led tournament stories and discover I'm a fan of curling for a couple of hours every four years etc.

They don't have to do PR for the men's game. It's already too expensive for the free to air broadcasters.

That said, the paid for services have a glut of football they can't quite sell - and their primary ambition is to keep the audience engaged. Controversy, anger, dodgy VAR, individual mistakes help keep the pundits and commentators sounding excited even when they're watching a match that's as dull as dishwater or one that's embarrassingly one sided.

I think that's a big part of it, yeah.

But I'd also say a big part of it is self preservation from male commentators, not wanting to criticise female performers and be accused of being sexist and derogatory. Which then tends to lead them to going too far the other way and being overly positive and avoiding the occasions when it should be perfectly fine to comment on / criticise a very poor effort or mistake. That's meant to be the job of commentators / pundits / reporters. They're meant to be reporting on what's happening - good and bad - not just providing positive PR.

I only ever watch three sports - Football, Cricket and Snooker. So can't extend that out to other sports. But in those three, that's something I've definitely noticed: the difference between the way male and female performers are commented about.

Of course, that's half for the reason you say - they're judged to a different standard, and it's similar in the men's game when an underdog team are playing a much higher ranked team: they're almost 'supporting' the underdogs and always looking to be positive and defend / ignore anything poor.

But it's also half the other point - that they're worried there'll be complaints of sexism if a male commentator is too (honestly) critical of poor play from female performers and so there's an extra, more important reason (in terms of keeping their jobs) to only look for and highlight the positives and try to avoid any negatives or criticism, no matter how valid it would be.

 

[Grande]

It's quite jarring once you listen out for it. A friend of mine pointed it out.

A team will lose in Europe and its "plucky" and they were "unfortunate". Men's teams "crash out of the cup" ladies teams "give their all and despite best efforts have been eliminated"

Men's teams under achieve. Fail. Ladies teams are "disappointed but look forward to bouncing back"

Once your notice the difference in media reporting of men's and women's football you can't stop hearing it. It seems patronising.

Women's teams "give their all" despite losing 4-0. Men's teams get hammered.

You may have a point there. If this is correct, it seems women’s football is graced by the same intelligent, respectful and knowledgeable commentary that also many other ‘smaller’ sports gets, like track and field, cycling, skiing, etc. whereas men’s fotball is condemned with snide, hysterical stupidity for their journalism.

I don’t think patronising is the word. ‘Normal’ seems to cover you examples better. Normal unless we’re talking about men’s football.

 

[G97]

It's also very confusing how they commingle men's and women's headlines / scores on their main page.

I never understand this. To me it’s two entirely different products.

Even as a dedicated Man United fan, I couldn’t careless about how the ladies team have got on, nor would I ever check their results. But good luck to them.

I suppose this is their way of trying to make me less ignorant. But it’s actually counterproductive.

 

[SilentWitness]

If anyone bothered to read up about the game or watched it then they'd realise the headline was created due to what the Arsenal manager and pundits, like Ian Wright, said about the pitch.

 

[MaxZorin]

I never understand this. To me it’s two entirely different products.

Even as a dedicated Man United fan, I couldn’t careless about how the ladies team have got on, nor would I ever check their results. But good luck to them.

I suppose this is their way of trying to make me less ignorant. But it’s actually counterproductive.

Calling our team 'products' shows how much of a 'dedicated fan' you are, chief.

As for 'counter-productive', that's on you.

 

[SER19]

Thanks. Journalists have annoyed me in the past by being scathing about a player or team's performance. I've never seen the weather being used as an excuse when reporting on the men's game. Managerial quotes or excuses from fans are entirely different.

Yeah maybe I simply don't follow it enough but theres possibly some truth in what you're saying. Ireland just had a really stinking awful women's euros qualifying campaign, losing several in a row and failing to score in most games and it did seem like the coverage always hit a tone of 'the girls in green are giving it a great go, fair play to them'. You could make an argument that the only campaign worse than Irelands men was Irelands women and the approach seemed quite different. I suspect it's rooted in many of the journalists covering it not actually watching much women's football

 

[G97]

Calling our team 'products' shows how much of a 'dedicated fan' you are, chief.

As for 'counter-productive', that's on you.

Well, I’m a season ticket holder mate who’s renewing next season and will apply for every away game too, despite the price increase.

‘Product’ - something made to be sold.
- That’s a football club son, whether you like it or not.

Just chill out fella.

 

[cafecillos]

I love the it's fine that women play football these days, just don't make me hear about it brigade. Great stuff.

 

[horsechoker]

I love the it's fine that women play football these days, just don't make me hear about it brigade. Great stuff.

Exactly, well done darling you can kick a ball now be quiet.

 

[SilentWitness]

I love the it's fine that women play football these days, just don't make me hear about it brigade. Great stuff.

Yeah, bloody make sure that they call them Manchester United Women and call Manchester United, Manchester United instead of Manchester United Men!

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I love the it's fine that women play football these days, just don't make me hear about it brigade. Great stuff.

There's 99.9% of sports - male or female versions - that I don't choose to hear about (i.e. go out of my way to follow / listen or read about). Women's football isn't an exception in that respect, it's in there with the huge majority.

The rare exceptions are the ones that I do follow. And I think that's the case with most people on most subjects - that they're only really interested in watching / hearing about a tiny percentage of things - the things that they have an interest in. The big difference seems to be that while that's just seen as perfectly normal in every other instance - as not everything is for everyone and everyone will have their own personal interests / no interest - there seems to be this push that everyone must be interested or positive about women's football and not allowed to be uninterested or critical.

The amount of people I hear who wear almost as a badge of honour that they 'hate' / have 'no interest' in (men's) football. And that's rightly considered fine, as each to their own. But anyone who just even says they don't really watch / follow women's football is immediately on the back foot and having to 'justify' why. Despite the fact that most people only follow a tiny percentage of all the different sports / versions of them.

It's weird how it's deemed not following one version of one sport is so unacceptable. It's in keeping with the thread title I guess - the idea that whereas every other sport / version has to compete with each other for tabloid coverage and supporters and has no divine right to expect it or be free from criticism, there's this idea that women's football must be championed by all and never criticised.

 

[cafecillos]

Yeah, these days if you say you're not interested in women's football you get arrested and thrown in jail.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Yeah, these days if you say you're not interested in women's football you get arrested and thrown in jail.

Nice deflection to not address a perfect valid point by falsely exaggerating it to make it a point no one has said.

The point was more that these days, if you say you're not interested in women's football, you get questioned why as if you have to justify it (and not because you'll otherwise be thrown in jail!) Whereas if you say you're not interested in any of the other 99.9% of sports / different versions of them then it's much more accepted that, yeah, many people aren't interested in those sports / versions of them. And that's it each to their own.

It's this assumption that everyone must champion it that seems weird, and puts it apart from the way people are just normally perfectly entitled to like / dislike, have interest / no interest in whivhever they genuinely prefer. And threads like this highlight that, with the sneery tone for anyone who says it's one of the many sports / version of a sport that they don't follow.

 

[DOTA]

Yeah, these days if you say you're not interested in women's football you get arrested and thrown in jail.

I mean, you should be. Anyone going round insisting we all hear about how uninterested they are in it is quite clearly behaving in a wilfully antisocial manner. No reason not to treat them accordingly.

 

[Sunny Jim]

What i dont like it calling female footballers girls. I dont mind calling male footballers boys.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I mean, you should be. Anyone going round insisting we all hear about how uninterested they are in it is quite clearly behaving in a wilfully antisocial manner. No reason not to treat them accordingly.

Why 'should' people be?

The men's version is far more popular, yet I hear loads of people 'going round' slagging it off and saying how they hate it or have no interest in it. They're never deemed to be behaving in a wilfully antisocial manner. Just voicing an opinion as they're entitled to.

I love Cricket - at least the longer formats that were around when I first became a fan (less interested in the more recent shorter formats). Yet I hear plenty dismiss it as 'boring' and 'like watching paint dry'. Are they behaving in a wilfully antisocial manner? Or just voicing an opinion on a sport / version of it as they're perfectly entitled to do?

Same with Snooker, the other sport I love. Regular responses are: 'It's boring' or 'Is it even a sport? I wouldn't class it as one!' Is that behaving in a wilfully antisocial manner - feeling the need to tell fans they don't like it or even recognise it as a sport?

People are perfectly entitled to like / dislike, have interest / no interest in any sport or version of it. And to voice that when discussing those sports or versions. And I think that should apply to women's football as well as the other 99.9%, but some seem to think it should be the one exception and everyone must say, yes, I like it and champion it.

 

[DOTA]

And throw away the key.

 

[sullydnl]

The point was more that these days, if you say you're not interested in women's football, you get questioned why as if you have to justify it

At no point in real life have I ever heard anyone question why anyone wasn't interested in women's football.

If it's something you've regularly experienced, I would suggest it might have something to do with you being the sort of person who has the most posts in this thread about women's football despite not being interested in women's football.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

At no point in real life have I ever heard anyone question why anyone wasn't interested in women's football.

If it's something you've regularly experienced, I would suggest it might have something to do with you being the sort of person who has the most posts in this thread about women's football despite not being interested in women's football.

Have a look at all the other threads about women's football and see how many posts I've made there? You'll find next to none. I've been on here for 4 years and done more posts on women's football on this thread than anywhere else combined.

So, no. It's not something I have regular discussions about on here or in real life. But I do see / hear it online or in real life. It's the only sport / version of it where people seem to have to explain their lack of interest in it as if it's wrong not to say you're interested and a champion of it. This place itself has plenty of that so I'm surprised / sceptical if you've not even seen it here.

Anyway, I'll happily back out of this one, now. I'm not on other forms of social media, but I have a rule on places like this that I'll join in for a few posts and have my say but then, as the debates quickly just become many different ways of saying the same things over and again, then I step away rather than just keep having the same ongoing discussion with strangers on a forum.

As you've highlighted by pointing out my post amount, I feel I'm already at that stage in this particular discussion.

 

[cafecillos]

there's this idea that women's football must be championed by all and never criticised.

falsely exaggerating

 

[miked99]

I think it's partly because the women's game is in its relative infancy, and there's significant gaps in quality between the teams. There's a lot of mismatches so teams are judged less harshly.

 

[didz]

Yeah, bloody make sure that they call them Manchester United Women and call Manchester United, Manchester United instead of Manchester United Men!

Can't have Manchester United Men. Headlines of 'MUM SAVAGED BY WOOD IN MIDLANDS BRAWL' would start to read too similarly to the texts I get every Sunday morning.

 

[moses]

The point was more that these days, if you say you're not interested in women's football, you get questioned why as if you have to justify it (and not because you'll otherwise be thrown in jail!) Whereas if you say you're not interested in any of the other 99.9% of sports / different versions of them then it's much more accepted that, yeah, many people aren't interested in those sports / versions of them. And that's it each to their own.

I think you're wrong here.

Firstly, "I don't follow women's football" is not controversial at all, as it's the majority of fans.

Secondly It's not like saying you are not interested in a sport. It's saying you're not interested in a sport because of who is playing it, which is slightly different. And that is ok too in context. I have heard people say they don't like men's tennis because it's just not as entertaining as it's all power based.

 

[groovyalbert]

I think the reverse is potentially true regarding the melodramatic and over the top response fans and media have to teams losing/perceived failures in the men's game. I also know I've definitely done this at times too!

If the women's game doesn't suffer from the same level of negative scrutiny the men's game does (beit across all media platforms - social, TV, radio, podcast, etc) then that's probably a positive. The reality is catastrophic news gets a wider response than positive or even measured ones. It whips a fervour and I think there's likely a parallel between this and some of the mental health issues currently evidenced in the game - I think Utd has become a prime topic for this in recent years. Despite us winning trophies regularly and competing in top competitions far more regularly than clubs who get a positive narrative.

 

[Bole Top]

they're being more polite because they don't want to discourage anyone I believe. personally I think it's not needed, but I understand it. the same way you treat youngsters after all. most could cope with that, but on that level it simply make no sense to be overly negative.

I lived in very small town majority of my life and local team is/was entirely filled with 35-40 year old guys who for some reason never moved or they simply returned to town, and had nothing better to do on sundays. so bordering disabled level, and the audience would never miss the chance to tell the players what they think about them. honestly, insults were probably the best part of watching the game. but the same guys would never insult younger generations of the same club.

tbf even the men shouldn't be exposed to that... but we just kinda got used to that I guess.