Substituting CB’s with CB’s (over and over): why?

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

It's absolutely ridiculous. No other teams do it. Ten Hag was doing it towards the end also

 

[Sandikan]

Because the centre backs aren't capable of sustaining a decent performance over 90 mins probably.

I'm sure Van Gaal always replaced a full back late on his time here too.

I'm pretty sure Darmian can't have had more than about 5 x 90min performances where he didn't get a booking in his whole time here.

 

[gaffs]

Has he been asked this in a presser?

 

[gaffs]

Because we have 5 substitutes and he has to use them somewhere?
He had basically no attacking substitutes he wanted to use for most of his time and pretty limited options at wing back. So you sub a midfielder or two, then what? Not defending him but its not surprising. You probably want to protect or ease in the likes of Maguire, Shaw, Martinez, Yoro, Heaven and so on too.

You do know that you don't have to use all 5 subs, right?

 

[Boring]

3-4-3 is getting a lot of flack, but the reality is that whatever it is we’re doing is a bastardisation of the principles set forth in a proper 3-4-3, and for a lot of the time, we’re clearly playing 5 at the back, not only that, we’re playing them flat, which is exactly the opposite of what you’re supposed to do with 5 defenders.

Glasner plays 3-4-3, yet his teams are effective, difficult to beat and wholly clued in on their roles. I highly doubt he has a rate of subbing CB’s in/out that is anywhere near what Amorim has. In fact, their substitutes would be interesting to compare and contrast with ours, what with their supposedly inferior squad to boot.

If I’m wrong I’m happy to be corrected, but what I think we’re seeing with Amorim is completely out there and off the charts anomalous compared to anyone else using a 3atb system.

Micah Richards explains it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c147m6jlz50o

Amorim is a one trick pony and his one trick hasn't worked for a year.

 

[Boring]

Micah Richards explains it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c147m6jlz50o

Amorim is a one trick pony and his one trick hasn't worked for a year.

Glasner plays 343 with one of the lowest possesion stats around 40% they are happy to sit back and hit on the break. Amorim is playing 343 in a high press. That's so dumb.


https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/possession/Premier-League-Stats

https://m.aiscore.com/tournament-chelsea-reading/mo07dni2vfxknxy/teamballpossession

 

[crackers0seven]

Needless subs as well at times. The man city game was one where I just had to laugh. We were chasing games,city ready to sit in. He takes off yoro,a young player who is able for 90mins once a week. Yoro has pace and is our main player to battle against a counter attack on us. He brings on Maguire, fast forward a few mins and Harry and Luke join forces to give haaland a one on one from his own half. His in game management is shocking. Id shocked he played the game cause his subs and antics on the sideline (not watching set plays) make me feel like hes never been on the pitch.

 

[Dearg hÉireann]

I know pages on pages will be filled & we will get a few essays too to get to the bottom of this, but the simple answer is that the manager is a clueless fecking idiot.

Another thing that is completely baffling is using Shaw as the LCB when Yoro did so well playing there last season both defending and bringing the ball out back.

Nail on the head there, he certainly is looking clueless at since he’s been our manager but I suppose all our managers post Fergie have seen their reputation torn to shreds.

On your last point about Shaw over Yoro, my god how is that fraud still getting picked to start for us, he’s been done for years and here’s another coach putting his trust in him. Beggars belief really.

 

[bosnian_red]

Why? Because he needs to make subs to change things and he looks on his bench and picks experienced players to sub. If we're making 5 subs a game, that's Mount or Zirkzee, Mainoo or Ugarte, dalot/mazraoui, then Maguire/Yoro. It's just going like for like and making subs with experienced players.

Really not that deep and honestly not really a problem. The problem is needing to change the game, every game.

 

[Alemar]

Because Ruben has a really clever system where centre halves are not really centre halves, they are also progressive midfielders. All of his players play two positions at once. Centre halves ‘jump’ and become midfielders, wing backs play defence and attack, 10s play as strikers and midfielders. It’s actually really really clever.

Do our players know it? It’s not visible during games, unfortunately

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I don’t understand why people have an issue with this. Shaw is built like glass and DeLigt is at least toughened glass, Harry has been returning from an injury and Yoro is quite young and has already suffered stress fractures.

So yeah he makes subs in the back line. Not really hard to see why.

Also I don’t know about this for sure but I would imagine if they are all playing to the tactics asked they would be covering more ground than an average Cb pairing with far more intensity with maybe only the central CB getting a rest.

I do however think with the way he seems to want to play DeLigt and Maguire aren’t the best suited for it.

 

[Chipper]

3-4-3 is getting a lot of flack, but the reality is that whatever it is we’re doing is a bastardisation of the principles set forth in a proper 3-4-3, and for a lot of the time, we’re clearly playing 5 at the back, not only that, we’re playing them flat, which is exactly the opposite of what you’re supposed to do with 5 defenders.

Glasner plays 3-4-3, yet his teams are effective, difficult to beat and wholly clued in on their roles. I highly doubt he has a rate of subbing CB’s in/out that is anywhere near what Amorim has. In fact, their substitutes would be interesting to compare and contrast with ours, what with their supposedly inferior squad to boot.

If I’m wrong I’m happy to be corrected, but what I think we’re seeing with Amorim is completely out there and off the charts anomalous compared to anyone else using a 3atb system.

Glasner hardly ever subs them out, but then Glasner hardly has any CBs to choose from anyway.

I don't think he would be doing this as often as Amorim at all if he had more options, but there's been times when we've had more choice than they have.

At the start of last season they lost Andersen who pushed his way out, wanting the Fulham move. Palace then picked up Chalobah on loan at the end of the window then lost him in January as he was recalled. Richards missed some games through injury during that first part of the season and they had to play Lerma at CB sometimes when he's a DM. They've had Chadi Riad since summer '24 who has yet to play in the league because he's done his cruciate ligaments in twice.

Following Chalobah's recall they had no cover at all beyond the 3 regular starters last season. They did add 19 year-old Jaydee Canvot this summer, he's their only other player for that position right now.

Wolves would be a better comparison. They did and do sub off a CB fairly often but not as much as Amorim. They've actually switched to a back 4 the past 2 matches anyway.

Before that for Wolves we're looking at like this:

24/25 - 3 CBs starting in 33 games all comps, subbed 1 off 17 times
25/26 - 6 matches with 3CBs, subbed 1 off 2 times, 2 off 1 time

Something like half the time for them.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Because its the most important position for him. For SAF it was his strikers, Pep it's midfielders. Amorim's identity is 3atb so he views CB changes as being vital to altering the course of a game and keeping his rotation fit.

Precisely. That’s just why we let get beaten so often. Clever fellow is our Mr. Amorim.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I don’t understand why people have an issue with this. Shaw is built like glass and DeLigt is at least toughened glass, Harry has been returning from an injury and Yoro is quite young and has already suffered stress fractures.

So yeah he makes subs in the back line. Not really hard to see why.

Also I don’t know about this for sure but I would imagine if they are all playing to the tactics asked they would be covering more ground than an average Cb pairing with far more intensity with maybe only the central CB getting a rest.

I do however think with the way he seems to want to play DeLigt and Maguire aren’t the best suited for it.

There are plenty of teams that ask their CB's to play even higher than we do and defend wide spaces. They aren't doing box to box shifts. Shifting off CB's after 60 minutes is fecking stupid.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

There are plenty of teams that ask their CB's to play even higher than we do and defend wide spaces. They aren't doing box to box shifts. Shifting off CB's after 60 minutes is fecking stupid.

They kind of are when our midfield can’t win or hold a ball to save their lives. Yoro and DeLigt are regularly extremely high then having to bomb back. Look at the Chelsea game for example.

This tactic is also kinda crazy asking the likes of DeLigt to do this and having Harry Maguire as your holding CB so high up when he has no real turn of pace and slow feet.