Sunday Supplement (2018 and Beyond)

[Kag]

Of course any tactics isn't 100% proof to work all the time but this one does, I am sure you must have read a stat as to United haven't lost a PL game after being 2-0 up at HT. In fact we have only lost 3 out of 350 odd games in PL at home where we have scored first. What do you deduce from that? It's okay to drop back and protect your lead if it's needed. I mean Mourinho went 8 years without losing a home game at 1 point, even during his time here only 1 team has beaten us at home and most will agree they're just a superior side to us.

You talk about our history and tradition, how many times did this place have a moan in SAF's last few seasons where we started to sit deep and play 'zombie football' whenever in lead? It's not a concept exclusive to the current regime.

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make any sense to me, there will always be 'ifs' and 'buts' from media and the fans if results don't come. That's how football works, it's always perfect in hindsight.

And both of them are utter idiots for it, getting dumped out of competition because of some self-righteous belief to not betray the principles to earn some brownie points is not smart. In fact it's polar opposite of it, it's extremely stupid. You play the hand you're dealt with, in all tight games/cup ties they're often decided by few mistakes and if you capitalize on it. You wait for your opponent to commit another which you try and exploit again, it's game management and Spurs failed to do that.

Also, I'm willing to bet good amount if we hire a hipster total football manager after Jose who'd play good football but lose big games/cup ties he'd get absolutely no leverage from media or the fans for 'sticking with United principles'. We fans have been spoiled for so long, we want success as well as great football. Either one in isolation and we'll continue to maon.

I don't disagree either. Which is why I said we deserve no criticism for yesterday - we got it absolutely spot on. But I've gone to lengths to explain why I think we'll receive criticism in the future if we have performances like yesterday's second half and don't come out with the win. Nature of the beast, I suppose.

On the whole, I would like us to be the side with the lions share of possession in bigger games and I have big issues with how we currently play football (which we all know about). It's why I can relate to what Sam Wallace (not the other plonkers) is saying when he argues that yesterday we won the battle, however, long term it may be an issue.

But that's personal preference. I remember when we went to Anfield a couple of season's back and battered them at their own ground. It's probably why I had more patience with Van Gaal than others, because it was this sort of display that I wanted to see across the board - unfortunately a lot of the rest of it was shite.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

This is seriously cringeworthy at times

What parts? I mean for the most I pretty much think what they said was spot on.

 

[prath92]

What parts? I mean for the most I pretty much think what they said was spot on.

Even their praises seemed forced and through gritted teeth.

The way they were talking you would be forgiven if you thought Liverpool won 2-1 against united.

Critiscizing him for subbing Rashford off when that was the right decision.

 

[Devil may care]

The media have hated us for ages, it comes with sustained success, and once Fergie left they have felt more at ease hammering us. Now they have an extra stick to beat us with as we play by far the worst football of the top 4 sides. It used to be that "neutrals" begrudged our success but had to admit we were a damn good watch, now they can hate us in totality, something that is heightened by the fact our local rivals have dominated the league playing brilliant football. The way we won yesterday was similar to how smaller clubs take points of much better funded bigger clubs, they are never going to praise that from a Manchester United side, especially one that has cost as much to assemble as this one

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Even their praises seemed forced and through gritted teeth.

The way they were talking you would be forgiven if you thought Liverpool won 2-1 against united.

Critiscizing him for subbing Rashford off when that was the right decision.

It ‘proved’ to be the right decision, but kind of agree with them and most of the crowd by their reaction. We were under extreme pressure and you would think a guy with Rashfords speed gives you a chance, an outlet, so why wouldn’t you leave him on the pitch. It’s Jose so we know he feels not being on the ball is safer and defending is controlling the game so that makes sense in how he wants to play. They are just simply making the point that is all fine and well when you’re winning but it’s a very thin line for Jose to walk and they were saying that their not sure that it will be tolerated by the fans long term.

Kind of feel at this moment the real agenda is with United fans, I’m not saying you in general but some of the stuff I’ve read about G nev and other media outlets today is getting in to the Tin hat sort of area of conspiracy theorists and so on.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Surely only United could get a win against a team in the to 6 and one of their most bitterest of rivals with relative ease (they had 2 shots on target, same as us), and have it be turned into a negative.

Other way around and Liverpool would be praised for being resilient and and showing tactical astuteness, and Spurs would be lauded. But because we didn't put 8 on them and have 90% possession it's almost seen as a hollow victory.

This. I’m sick of the negative spin put on any result we get. We win then we don’t win the right way.

‘It’s not the United way’. There is no United way, it was Sir Alex’s way of playing football. He was here for 26 years so people just assume it’s the United way.

I’ve had to stop watching Sunday Supplement because they are bunch of know alls that seem to think that writing for trash newspapers means their opinions matter.

It’s just a Pep love in as well. Even last year when he achieved absolutely nothing they hounded Jose all season and nothing was said about Pep spending a fortune and finishing 4th. This year has been no different.

 

[Devil may care]

‘It’s not the United way’. There is no United way, it was Sir Alex’s way of playing football. He was here for 26 years so people just assume it’s the United way.

No, Fergie took that way from Sir Matt, and managers like Tommy Docherty and Ron Atkinson also played that way, it used to be a pre-requisite for a United manager.

 

[prath92]

It ‘proved’ to be the right decision, but kind of agree with them and most of the crowd by their reaction. We were under extreme pressure and you would think a guy with Rashfords speed gives you a chance, an outlet, so why wouldn’t you leave him on the pitch. It’s Jose so we know he feels not being on the ball is safer and defending is controlling the game so that makes sense in how he wants to play. They are just simply making the point that is all fine and well when you’re winning but it’s a very thin line for Jose to walk and they were saying that their not sure that it will be tolerated by the fans long term.

Kind of feel at this moment the real agenda is with United fans, I’m not saying you in general but some of the stuff I’ve read about G nev and other media outlets today is getting in to the Tin hat sort of area of conspiracy theorists and so on.

Eh no. You talk as if it was early on that he made the sub. With 25 minutes to go, it’s perfectly sensible to make substitutions with one eye to maintain the result. Rashford was on a yellow and could have easily got another one too. It was definitely the sensible decision. Every sensible manager would make such a decision in a big game.

 

[Nick7]

No, Fergie took that way from Sir Matt, and managers like Tommy Docherty and Ron Atkinson also played that way, it used to be a pre-requisite for a United manager.

So, what happened in Ferguson's later years when we did play defensively against other top teams?

 

[BusbyMalone]

Was about to say that.

And only Liverpool and perhaps Arsenal can lose yet recieve all the praise. I guess that says a lot about the expectations at those clubs...

It is all about expectation, as you seen with the reaction surrounding Spurs when they got knocked out of the Champions League in the week. Nothing but praise. You would think they went through. Now i know United are obviously bigger than Spurs but if that was us we would be slated for going out at the first knock out stage. I get expectations are different, but you also want some fairness. Even when we win the only things being discussed are the negatives.

 

[Devil may care]

So, what happened in Ferguson's later years when we did play defensively against other top teams?

People keep trying to equate those few games to what Mourinho does, who even plays these tactics away to a side like Newcastle. For starters Fergie didn't have a side that had the crazy investment this one has, so Fergie had to be more astute, on top of that we were never as bad as we've been under Jose in these games where we have often shown zero attacking intent, that was never the case with Fergie and we didn't set up this way at Old Trafford, do you remember us against Real and Bayern at Old Trafford in the CL where we went for them and dominated them only to be screwed over by red cards and an injury to Rooney? That was Fergie, that was United, the exception being the Barca semi but at that point I think most clubs were struggling to deal with their unseen amounts of possession based football.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Eh no. You talk as if it was early on that he made the sub. With 25 minutes to go, it’s perfectly sensible to make substitutions with one eye to maintain the result. Rashford was on a yellow and could have easily got another one too. It was definitely the sensible decision. Every sensible manager would make such a decision in a big game.

And surely keeping a guy on with the pace of Rashford is an eye to maintain the result as he can relieve the pressure. He’s also a forward so his tackling should be limited. Valencia also had a yellow but he wasn’t substituted and he’d had a few incidents. Could have taken Mata off or Sanchez which he left on until 90+ minutes.

In the end Jose got it right and he got the result he wanted playing the way Jose wants to. However nothing they’ve said is cringe or wrong. There job is to ask questions and they are questions being asked by fans.

 

[Catt]

It is all about expectation, as you seen with the reaction surrounding Spurs when they got knocked out of the Champions League in the week. Nothing but praise. You would think they went through. Now i know United are obviously bigger than Spurs but if that was us we would be slated for going out at the first knock out stage. I get expectations are different, but you also want some fairness. Even when we win the only things being discussed is the negatives.

Must feel good knowing they do all to perfection except winning.

 

[Nick7]

People keep trying to equate those few games to what Mourinho does, who even plays these tactics away to a side like Newcastle. For starters Fergie didn't have a side that had the crazy investment this one has, so Fergie had to be more astute, on top of that we were never as bad as we've been under Jose in these games where we have often shown zero attacking intent, that was never the case with Fergie and we didn't set up this way at Old Trafford, do you remember us against Real and Bayern at Old Trafford in the CL where we went for them and dominated them only to be screwed over by red cards and an injury to Rooney? That was Fergie, that was United, the exception being the Barca semi but at that point I think most clubs were struggling to deal with their unseen amounts of possession based football.

Against Newcastle we had 64% possession. 10 corners and more shots off target and on target than Newcastle. We were attacking but couldn't score. Barca semi wasn't against the possession based Barcelona. It was Rijkaard's Barca, that finished 3rd, behind Madrid and Vilarreal. There were more than just those that we played defensively in. You're fooling yourself if you think we played "swashbuckling attacking football" at all times under Fergie.

 

[prath92]

And surely keeping a guy on with the pace of Rashford is an eye to maintain the result as he can relieve the pressure. He’s also a forward so his tackling should be limited. Valencia also had a yellow but he wasn’t substituted and he’d had a few incidents. Could have taken Mata off or Sanchez which he left on until 90+ minutes.

In the end Jose got it right and he got the result he wanted playing the way Jose wants to. However nothing they’ve said is cringe or wrong. There job is to ask questions and they are questions being asked by fans.

Mourinho wasn’t going to take a defender off when defending a lead. No manager with brains will.

Among the forwards Rashford was the only one with a yellow so it’s safer to take him off than to play with 10. Sanchez and lukaku has pace too so it’s hardly like we were losing pace.

We brought on lingard for mata later on, so did Mourinho turn into an attacking manager then?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Mourinho wasn’t going to take a defender off when defending a lead. No manager with brains will.

Among the forwards Rashford was the only one with a yellow so it’s safer to take him off than to play with 10. Sanchez and lukaku has pace too so it’s hardly like we were losing pace.

We brought on lingard for mata later on, so did Mourinho turn into an attacking manager then?

Simply pointing out why they said what they did and why fans booed the decision. And then used Valencia as an example of someone with a yellow. He could easily have been replaced with Young or Darmian with Shaw going left.
Sanchez as was being discussed yesterday seems to have lost the pace he used to have as he looked so slow.

And anyway he could have taken Mata off for Lingard and put Fellaini on for Sanchez and vice versa. People moaned that it was a defensive substitution and he took off a guy on a hat trick who had the pace to help us defensively and attack them. So again nothing cringed at all in what they said. But it’s just your interpretation of it so you’re entitled to that but i’ll Leave it there.

 

[#07]

Mourinho wasn’t going to take a defender off when defending a lead. No manager with brains will.

Among the forwards Rashford was the only one with a yellow so it’s safer to take him off than to play with 10. Sanchez and lukaku has pace too so it’s hardly like we were losing pace.

We brought on lingard for mata later on, so did Mourinho turn into an attacking manager then?

Bringing facts into an argument like this? As if Jose’s made attacking subs recently that have won us games against Chelsea and Palace. Surely not..?

Everyone knows Jose is a defensive, defensive manager. Only Saint Pep, Jurgen ‘heavy metal’ Klopp and the messiah Mauricio Pochettino play the game the ‘right’ way.

The media says it so it must be. Forget that we’ve already scored more goals this season than last, forget we’ve actually scored more goals than some of the best teams to watch TM. Forget our league position. It’s all terrible...

 

[Devil may care]

Against Newcastle we had 64% possession. 10 corners and more shots off target and on target than Newcastle. We were attacking but couldn't score. Barca semi wasn't against the possession based Barcelona. It was Rijkaard's Barca, that finished 3rd, behind Madrid and Vilarreal. There were more than just those that we played defensively in. You're fooling yourself if you think we played "swashbuckling attacking football" at all times under Fergie.

Having possession doesn't mean you are playing with genuine intent, look at us dozens of times under LvG, we were still cautious and slow. Rijkaard's Barca still played with a heavy possession based style, Guardiola only increased it, he didn't invent it, and that made them hard to play openly against, but I'm not fooling myself when I say we never played with the lack of intent we show under Mourinho, and we never played with such negative tactics at Old Trafford no matter how big the opposition was bar that Barca game, even in those latter years as evidenced in our games against Real and Bayern, Mourinho wouldn't even go for Sevila's throat like that, nevermind a Bayern or Real.

I'm not talking about swashbuckling football, I am talking about playing with a balanced set-up with genuine attacking intent when we do have the ball, where we got forward in numbers still and applied pressure and actually looked like we trained as an attacking unit and not a bunch of individuals we hoped might pull something out of the bag. Plus I and many others didn't care for some of the changes with Fergie in his twilight, but he'd earned more than enough cache for it to be overlooked, Mourinho hasn't because it's his way of playing in general, not a phase, and to try and compare his mentality and style to Fergie is just a dishonest attempt to try and justify the horrid football the current guy serves up based on the fact his results are better than the previous two managers we've had, people getting scared at the distance growing from our last PL title win.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The press moaning about us. We must be doing something right.

 

[Fully Fledged]

What parts? I mean for the most I pretty much think what they said was spot on.

So I take it the part where they were on about which club was in a better place to challenge for the league and CL next season us or Liverpool wasn't on that video then?

 

[r3idy]

The problem with Football Journalism nowadays is that it is becoming hugely irrelevant and that is a real shame. Supposed professional journalists like Neil Ashton, John Cross, Oliver Holt are dinosaurs caught in a by gone era. By the time a story goes to print it's dead, if they want to compete online then they are competing against the likes FanTV which is more genuine warts and all.

The clubs have very little trust of these so-called professionals. Whatever Jose says in the pre match presser will be edited to make a story where there was none. If I am not mistaken wasn't Jose's comments about Pep's yellow ribbon took completely out of context. It was only when you saw the full un-edited presser you got the full picture of what he said.

Fans are now hugely cynical of them also. They see them and call them out for their bullshit. ' A source close to the player' or 'Our sources inside the club' hold little water with any fan's these days. It's another way of saying, we will speculate on something, we know you mugs will lap it up but there is no truth in it.

How do they remain (or at least try) relevant, continue this half baked attempt at serious dialogue? Their answer is a closed shop of stooges and charlatans headed by Neil Ashton sitting their like Walter Cronkite debating the Vietnam War. The agenda is pre set, the dice is rolled, the headlines are written even before it goes on air. Thats why the show or the vast majority of reporters who go on their has no credibility to the modern day fan. If they want to know what United fans think of Mourhinio then get some on the show. If they want credibility get some decent ex players on the bloody thing and keep it relevant.

 

[Paxi]

That from Custis was remarkable tbh. He's entitled to that view but i dare say he's the only one who holds that view. The Liverpool supporting journo in the following video embarrassed herself too some years ago.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

She tries to stay nonchalant but inside she knows she made a feckwit out her self in live tv - the Katie Hopkins looking twat.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

This is seriously cringeworthy at times

These morons just don't get it, do they? Mourinho is about winning and that's the team he's building here. We showed against Crystal Palace that we're not afraid to commit and attack in numbers if the situations demands. However, we'll always initiate a game with a calculated method of attacking and, ultimately, winning.

All this talk about fecking City winning and their style is beyond ridiculous. At this moment in time, they've won jack shit under Pep. We don't even know what'll happen next season... Could end up win a PL title and nothing else.

 

[Jacko21]

Sam Wallace is right, no?

 

[madzo2007]

Just listening to the podcast now, and John Cross going on and on about the 'United Way' what is the United Way exactly because its been about 10 years since we played consistently attractive football, apart from the early 2011/12 games. We were functional and effective for the last few years of the Fergie era, remember we only won 5 away games in 2010/11 which is terrible for a title winning team. The term zombie passing was a common theme on match day threads here for the last couple of the Fergie years as well. I'll not mention the Moyes year or the LVG years of essentially boring us all to death. Lets not forget either we currently have the 3rd best attack and the 2nd best defence in the league.

Also Cross saying Liverpool have more attacking depth.... they have 3 attackers, Salah, Firmino & Mane thats it they have no other forwards other than Solanke.

 

[Kag]

So, what happened in Ferguson's later years when we did play defensively against other top teams?

In fairness, Ferguson was criticised for this. I was appalled by that performance away at the Etihad which more or less lost us the title. There was a definite drop in the quality of our football, partly because we sought to sell our best player and avoid improving the gaping hole that was our central midfield. Using Ferguson's last side as a yardstick for attractive football may not work, however it's fair to say that they certainly knew how to get the ball in the back of the net.

One of Ferguson's greatest skills was getting his teams to score goals no matter the personnel.

 

[AR87]

we never played with the lack of intent we show under Mourinho, and we never played with such negative tactics at Old Trafford no matter how big the opposition was bar that Barca game, even in those latter years as evidenced in our games against Real and Bayern, Mourinho wouldn't even go for Sevila's throat like that, nevermind a Bayern or Real.

We played incredibly "negatively" against Real. We sat back and let them have the ball and Welbeck's entire task over 2 legs was to man mark Alonso above anything else. Our entire game plan in the 2nd leg, at home, was to sit in and let them try to break us down because they had been struggling with that all season in La Liga. We only had a go after we went down 1-2 and needed to chase the game.

 

[Dave1812]

These morons just don't get it, do they? Mourinho is about winning and that's the team he's building here. We showed against Crystal Palace that we're not afraid to commit and attack in numbers if the situations demands. However, we'll always initiate a game with a calculated method of attacking and, ultimately, winning.

All this talk about fecking City winning and their style is beyond ridiculous. At this moment in time, they've won jack shit under Pep. We don't even know what'll happen next season... Could end up win a PL title and nothing else.

Mourinho showed against Palace we are not afraid to attack in numbers. I don't know if you know this but we was 2 nil down what do you think we are going to do defend.

 

[r3idy]

Sam Wallace is right, no?

All depends which part. If you say they score a last minute goal for 2-2 then of course his argument holds water. If you buy into the argument that Klopp's style of football is better because it pulls at the heart strings, therefore, he will be better than JM long term,then no I don't agree. Klopp as a few Liverpool fan's will tell you (and Dortmund for that matter) very rarely has a plan B. A lot of the time it works but as you can see from his record in domestic cup football his teams struggle.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Mourinho showed against Palace we are not afraid to attack in numbers. I don't know if you know this but we was 2 nil down what do you think we are going to do defend.

Whats your point?

 

[Dave1812]

Whats your point?

I am replying to your point that we attacked at Palace when we was 2 nil down we aren't going to sit back and defend are we. I didn't see much attacking play in the first half.

 

[Dave1812]

Don't normal agree with the media but this morning i did 100%. If you play this way you have to win and i don't mean the FA Cup or League Cup I mean the premier league because they will come a point where your spending hundreds of millions playing poor football and not winning the big trophies. Mourinho has always played this way but he was winning league titles when he did at the moment he hasn't here and i don't think he will next year playing like this way and then he will have had 3 full seasons and will have spend about 400 million how long does he get?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I am replying to your point that we attacked at Palace when we was 2 nil down we aren't going to sit back and defend are we. I didn't see much attacking play in the first half.

Read my post properly. That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Dave1812]

Read my post properly. That's exactly what I'm saying.

I have and you points are rubbish calculated method lol. you also go on about City they have winning nothing 1. League Cup 2 Premier League.

 

[SteveJ]

Don't normal agree with the media but this morning i did 100%. If you play this way you have to win and i don't mean the FA Cup or League Cup I mean the premier league because they will come a point where your spending hundreds of millions playing poor football and not winning the big trophies. Mourinho has always played this way but he was winning league titles when he did at the moment he hasn't here and i don't think he will next year playing like this way and then he will have had 3 full seasons and will have spend about 400 million how long does he get?

And what, exactly, does it say about playing the opposite way...and winning nothing? Klopp's flaws & record should be the story today.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

And what, exactly, does it say about playing the opposite way...and winning nothing? Klopp's flaws & record should be the story today.

Wouldn't it be nice if United trumped City's League Cup with the F.A. Cup and their PL with a CL. I agree Klopp goes on about his great style, but is winning nothing. He is dire in any cup final he gets to for a start. Also I hope he leaves Liverpool in the same state as Dortmund, going absolutely nowhere.

 

[SteveJ]

Not to mention that his versus-top-six record is awful this season.

 

[Devil may care]

We played incredibly "negatively" against Real. We sat back and let them have the ball and Welbeck's entire task over 2 legs was to man mark Alonso above anything else. Our entire game plan in the 2nd leg, at home, was to sit in and let them try to break us down because they had been struggling with that all season in La Liga. We only had a go after we went down 1-2 and needed to chase the game.

No we didn't, we played that way at their ground but we were by far the better team at Old Trafford, even Mourinho accepted that post match, having tonnes of possession does not equal positve football, we went for them and had Nani not gotten a bogus red we'd have won. I can't believe people are twisting our greatest managers past to try and justify what Mourinho has turned us into.

 

[AR87]

No we didn't, we played that way at their ground but we were by far the better team at Old Trafford, even Mourinho accepted that post match, having tonnes of possession does not equal positve football, we went for them and had Nani not gotten a bogus red we'd have won. I can't believe people are twisting our greatest managers past to try and justify what Mourinho has turned us into.

No, we didn't go for them and we were the better team because we nullified their attacking threat entirely. They had 64% possession in both halves. We played negative and looked to hit on the counter playing very direct through Nani. It was a defensive masterclass and one Jose appreciated.

Nobody's twisting here other than you because you can't stand the current manager.

 

[Devil may care]

No, we didn't go for them and we were the better team because we nullified their attacking threat entirely. They had 64% possession in both halves. We played negative and looked to hit on the counter playing very direct through Nani. It was a defensive masterclass and one Jose appreciated.

Nobody's twisting here other than you because you can't stand the current manager.

That's where people twist negative to suit an agenda, there's nothing negative about great counter attacking, negative is when you simply set up to defend and have no counter attacking scheme, you just hope someone will pull a Rabbit out of the hat, we were set up the same way we were against Arsenal in those latter years, let them have the tippy tappy possession and kill them on the counter, that's not negative.