Support the club and not UEFA / PSG

[SinNombre]

Now that this ESL thing is guaranteed to be binned, let's not forget that the real culprits are UEFA and PSG.

UEFA has remained one of the most corrupt organizations that continues to take a lot of money away from the game and are solely responsible for status of the game as is with morally corrupt oil-money ruling the game in PSG and City.

PSG in one window with Neymar and Mbappe completely broke the camel's back in terms of transfer fees, player power and agent fees and everyone else is suffering as a result.

While fans can continue pushing for reform at United themselves (like 50+1), let's support the club and not allow PSG and oil money to completely take over the game. That is a outcome far worse than the ESL would have been.

 

[Oly Francis]

Now that this ESL thing is guaranteed to be binned, let's not forget that the real culprits are UEFA and PSG.

UEFA has remained one of the most corrupt organizations that continues to take a lot of money away from the game and are solely responsible for status of the game as is with morally corrupt oil-money ruling the game in PSG and City.

PSG in one window with Neymar and Mbappe completely broke the camel's back in terms of transfer fees, player power and agent fees and everyone else is suffering as a result.

While fans can continue pushing for reform at United themselves (like 50+1), let's support the club and not allow PSG and oil money to completely take over the game. That is a outcome far worse than the ESL would have been.

Yeah sure, go blame PSG, as if it really changed anything. The only transactions these transfers had a real influence on are Barcelona's transfers with Neymar's money and that's pretty much it. You bought Lukaku for 85M€ BEFORE we "broke the camel's back" and sold him for 74M after that, wow we really turned things upside down.

And should I remind you that we haven't won a single ECL since and that our team is totally crippled by these transfers (it's not as if we just had to play against Bayern with a defense line of Bakker-Kimpembe-Danilo-Dagba).

 

[BBRBB]

100% agree, let's not forget that PSG and UEFA were the saviours of football in this short-lived saga against the morally bankrupt 12.

 

[Cloud7]

How does support the club factor into this when it was the club’s owners and executives that wanted this?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Trainwreck of a post. Trying to deflect attention from the utter shame your ownership has brought down on your massive club is pathetic.

You'll be far more respected (as will us Chelsea supporters) if we just take it on the chin. Your attempts to distract from the indisputable fact that your predatory parasitic owners were instrumental in attempting to alter the very fabric of the sport in order to add to their bottom line are risible.

 

[Giggs86]

Trainwreck of a post. Trying to deflect attention from the utter shame your ownership has brought down on your massive club is pathetic.

You'll be far more respected (as will us Chelsea supporters) if we just take it on the chin. Your attempts to distract from the indisputable fact that your predatory parasitic owners were instrumental in attempting to alter the very fabric of the sport in order to add to their bottom line are risible.

That's rich coming from a Chelsea fan

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That's rich coming from a Chelsea fan

A Trump supporter calling anything rich is a level of irony that is thick enough to spread on toast

So sorry for you that the Super League isn't happening so you can no longer exhibit your cognitive dissonance when trickle down economics fails for the umpteenth time. I appreciate that this is a hard time for you; hope you seek counseling.

 

[Giggs86]

A Trump supporter calling anything rich is a level of irony that is thick enough to spread on toast

So sorry for you that the Super League isn't happening so you can no longer exhibit your cognitive dissonance when trickle down economics fails for the umpteenth time. I appreciate that this is a hard time for you; hope you seek counseling.

I'm a United supporter, what does Trump has to do with anything?

Like I said, a Chelsea fan talking about ownership, shame and economics is the pinnacle of irony

Why don't you go read a little about the owner of your club and where the money that bought your club's success is coming from. You'll surely need to seek counseling after you find out

 

[Abizzz]

Let's just all agree that the fans defended what their clubs are against owners who had no clue. No point blaming the clubs outside the owners and vermin like Woodward really.

 

[sullydnl]

I think you can rightly criticise both UEFA and the oil clubs for state of the current football landscape. However, I don't think you can exclude the "investment bankers & leeches" ownership model we (among others) currently represent either. That's a potent part of the cocktail too.

 

[Leeuw]

Congratulations to the topic starter with your nomination for "Worst topic of the century".

 

[Giggsy13]

100% agree, let's not forget that PSG and UEFA were the saviours of football in this short-lived saga against the morally bankrupt 12.

PSG are what’s wrong with football to begin with. PSG’s moralistic stance was all based on money as well considering all that was invested by Qatar into Bein sports champions league coverage. Money governed PSG’s “moral” position as well, nothing else.

 

[Striker10]

I think most people agree that the game has moved this direction because people have accepted corruption but are not united against it.

The players need to stop cheating on the pitch. The press need to more honest. The government needs to represent the people. And we need to get back to normalcy and not invisible enemies. But we really need the ability to create money and then capitalism CAN work. In the hands of the people and not these money men.

So that we can enjoy our game!

But in truth, we might have to be radical and get our ass out of European Competition and reinvigorate what once we held dear. It sounds radical and it is but there is so much money in the game now, of course it will attract bad actors. We have to be smarter as people

 

[amolbhatia50k]

100% agree, let's not forget that PSG and UEFA were the saviours of football in this short-lived saga against the morally bankrupt 12.

PSG saviours of football

 

[tenpoless]

Feck PSG theyre using this as an act of goodwill. They don't need money, they need good publicity.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

The real culprits are the Americans who tried to fecking franchise us! Other people/groups being cnuts doesnt negate the fact our owners are cnuts as well.

 

[DOTA]

The blame should go to capitalism. There's nothing uniquely greedy about football or ownership of football clubs. They just exist under capitalist systems.

 

[Sayros]

Now that this ESL thing is guaranteed to be binned, let's not forget that the real culprits are UEFA and PSG.

UEFA has remained one of the most corrupt organizations that continues to take a lot of money away from the game and are solely responsible for status of the game as is with morally corrupt oil-money ruling the game in PSG and City.

PSG in one window with Neymar and Mbappe completely broke the camel's back in terms of transfer fees, player power and agent fees and everyone else is suffering as a result.

While fans can continue pushing for reform at United themselves (like 50+1), let's support the club and not allow PSG and oil money to completely take over the game. That is a outcome far worse than the ESL would have been.

I always find those takes amusing when PSG haven't even been in the top 3 biggest transfer spenders, matter of fact over the last 5 years they've only spend 22m more than United as the 4th biggest spenders. They're 5th in wage bills. People can have their valid opinion about a state funding a club, I've got my own issues with it as well because it's my hometown club and I would prefer it in French hands but that wouldn't work in a league that sells its best talents to far richer clubs. I think Nasser has been an excellent president, they've really established a great thing in Paris, and made PSG a global brand that I see everywhere I travel, and people can have whatever opinion they want, but I wouldn't trade him for any of those Super league owners/presidents.

You're right though that UEFA, PSG, and the lot of them are corrupt, football is corrupt, just look at where Juventus came from with their calciopoli (a bigger spender than PSG in both transfers and wage btw), but what's become clear is that even if there was an involvement of a governmental or overseeing agency, money is always going to win out. That's just the way it is, and all of this is about more money. They can put the regulations they want, people will find a way to bend them, and there will be more clubs like City and PSG. Personally, I choose to accept it and live stress-free over it, if it means the best players don't go as often to Real Madrid or Barcelona, I'm happy about it.

I think most people, not all, are more bothered about the fact there's a club in a farmer's league that's taking talent they believe rightfully belongs to their elite club more than the morality behind the reasons why. They don't belong at the table, but we have to hear their chatter-type of thing. What this super league has shown is that the greed is even in those established clubs. And people can cry about PSG and how they're the reasons why clubs like United and Liverpool would burn their own league to the ground over some money, but that would make the clubs look even weaker IMO. I think this selfishness would have happened regardless whether PSG/City existed or not. It's just simple greed, and it's never going to stop as long as football is this lucrative a business. It also shows that a club owner is just one person, and it doesn't represent what the club is about, and people tend to conveniently forget that about PSG. Maybe this episode of the super league will remind them a club is not its owners, but its fans, and PSG has great ones themselves, and they were there long before the Qataris, but I won't hold my breath over it.

 

[KikiDaKats]

I understand no big club will like UEFA but stop with the self serving interests of a small number of clubs using as the moral barometer of justness. UEFA and FIFA are here for everyone involved in football, not just the clubs/Nations we support. When these bodies formulate stuff they have to also represent the interests of these so called No Teams or Nations.
I will continue to support United but won’t call UEFA corrupt for also trying to make a global sport equal. Through trying to make sure further outfield nations developing their football to a level where their young talents won’t leave very young and get lost in the system in some top league. Most people don’t even know what these bodies do, just understands what the media sells us and UCL that we are interested in. That’s the least important of UEFAs work. Likewise, FIFA and its involvement of the growth of football globally, which can only happen by give everyone a chance and opportunities in competitions.
People in world also have their own interests to look after just like us ourself.

 

[NinjaZombie]

I always find those takes amusing when PSG haven't even been in the top 3 biggest transfer spenders, matter of fact over the last 5 years they've only spend 22m more than United as the 4th biggest spenders. They're 5th in wage bills. People can have their valid opinion about a state funding a club, I've got my own issues with it as well because it's my hometown club and I would prefer it in French hands but that wouldn't work in a league that sells its best talents to far richer clubs. I think Nasser has been an excellent president, they've really established a great thing in Paris, and made PSG a global brand that I see everywhere I travel, and people can have whatever opinion they want, but I wouldn't trade him for any of those Super league owners/presidents.

You're right though that UEFA, PSG, and the lot of them are corrupt, football is corrupt, just look at where Juventus came from with their calciopoli (a bigger spender than PSG in both transfers and wage btw), but what's become clear is that even if there was an involvement of a governmental or overseeing agency, money is always going to win out. That's just the way it is, and all of this is about more money. They can put the regulations they want, people will find a way to bend them, and there will be more clubs like City and PSG. Personally, I choose to accept it and live stress-free over it, if it means the best players don't go as often to Real Madrid or Barcelona, I'm happy about it.

I think most people, not all, are more bothered about the fact there's a club in a farmer's league that's taking talent they believe rightfully belongs to their elite club more than the morality behind the reasons why. They don't belong at the table, but we have to hear their chatter-type of thing. What this super league has shown is that the greed is even in those established clubs. And people can cry about PSG and how they're the reasons why clubs like United and Liverpool would burn their own league to the ground over some money, but that would make the clubs look even weaker IMO. I think this selfishness would have happened regardless whether PSG/City existed or not. It's just simple greed, and it's never going to stop as long as football is this lucrative a business. It also shows that a club owner is just one person, and it doesn't represent what the club is about, and people tend to conveniently forget that about PSG. Maybe this episode of the super league will remind them a club is not its owners, but its fans, and PSG has great ones themselves, and they were there long before the Qataris, but I won't hold my breath over it.

Say what you want about the Arabs, at least your owners are putting their own money in and actually in football for the prestige.

I disagree with state run clubs and their financial powers, but I realise that just as I hold that opinion, the likes of Mansfield Town can rightly look at the old Man Utd PLC and disagree with how our club is run as well.

It's a tough situation.

One thing that has been proven though is this: The TV money distribution model in the PL where every member gets an almost equal share has resulted in a stronger, more competitive league. I think the smaller European clubs in Spain, Italy and France need to be making noises about this.

 

[Cassidy]

Yeah sure, go blame PSG, as if it really changed anything. The only transactions these transfers had a real influence on are Barcelona's transfers with Neymar's money and that's pretty much it. You bought Lukaku for 85M€ BEFORE we "broke the camel's back" and sold him for 74M after that, wow we really turned things upside down.

And should I remind you that we haven't won a single ECL since and that our team is totally crippled by these transfers (it's not as if we just had to play against Bayern with a defense line of Bakker-Kimpembe-Danilo-Dagba).

We are having a world cup in Qatar and the UCL rights being owned by Bein but you dont think PSG is changing the game.. right ok

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I'm a United supporter, what does Trump has to do with anything?

Like I said, a Chelsea fan talking about ownership, shame and economics is the pinnacle of irony

Why don't you go read a little about the owner of your club and where the money that bought your club's success is coming from. You'll surely need to seek counseling after you find out

And yet despite all those skeletons in Roman's closet I much prefer to be owned by him than your lot. There's no moral high ground you can take here; it's beyond obvious that were the Glazers in Roman's situation when the USSR was collapsing they'd have done exactly the same and then some. If anything this saga has demonstrated how much more conniving and weasely they are than just about anyone bar Perez.

Given your behaviour in the other thread everyone knows you're gutted the SL is dead and buried - it's just funny that the only people it appeals to are the likes of Trump supporters who are the only ones thick enough to still believe in trickle-down economics.

 

[do.ob]

Yeah. Evil PSG signing that ESL contract, providing its leadership even, paying 80mil for Maguire, paying Sanchez 2 million a month and doing deals where Raiola pockets 40mil. Spearheading private ownership. It's all on them.

 

[André Dominguez]

Can't say if it's trolling or just stupid...

 

[Cloud7]

I understand no big club will like UEFA but stop with the self serving interests of a small number of clubs using as the moral barometer of justness. UEFA and FIFA are here for everyone involved in football, not just the clubs/Nations we support. When these bodies formulate stuff they have to also represent the interests of these so called No Teams or Nations.
I will continue to support United but won’t call UEFA corrupt for also trying to make a global sport equal. Through trying to make sure further outfield nations developing their football to a level where their young talents won’t leave very young and get lost in the system in some top league. Most people don’t even know what these bodies do, just understands what the media sells us and UCL that we are interested in. That’s the least important of UEFAs work. Likewise, FIFA and its involvement of the growth of football globally, which can only happen by give everyone a chance and opportunities in competitions.
People in world also have their own interests to look after just like us ourself.

Excellent take. It’s as if many supporters believe that football should exist only for a few nations and the rest of us should be honored to be able to witness it unfold. Disgusting level of arrogance.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

They're all as bad as each other, lets be honest.

Pretty impossible to call UEFA the real villains when our owners were off doing scummy things themselves.

Support the manager, support the players, support the name... feck the Glazers.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

100% agree, let's not forget that PSG and UEFA were the saviours of football in this short-lived saga against the morally bankrupt 12.

PSG are up to their neck in corruption with UEFA and FIFA. Once the World Cup was over they'd be in any ESL in no time.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

They need to break the club's financial power by implementing European/worldwide salary caps and transfer fee limits for a particular window based on the average turnover of the clubs in that league. FFP was a joke - it was designed to lock in place the power of the already rich clubs. What a club spends has to be limited to the league's own wealth as a mean.
Money has killed this game. The only way out of it is to take the money out of the equation a bit.

 

[Zehner]

Now that this ESL thing is guaranteed to be binned, let's not forget that the real culprits are UEFA and PSG.

UEFA has remained one of the most corrupt organizations that continues to take a lot of money away from the game and are solely responsible for status of the game as is with morally corrupt oil-money ruling the game in PSG and City.

PSG in one window with Neymar and Mbappe completely broke the camel's back in terms of transfer fees, player power and agent fees and everyone else is suffering as a result.

While fans can continue pushing for reform at United themselves (like 50+1), let's support the club and not allow PSG and oil money to completely take over the game. That is a outcome far worse than the ESL would have been.

PSG has a net spent of ~15m € since signing Mbappe and Neymar. They essentially invested all they have in two players and build on rather cheap solutions in most team areas.

 

[diarm]

People trying to talk about PSG's net spend and wage bills as shown on book is a bit like people defending the Sopranos by talking about their legitimate garbage company.

This figures are bullshit - same as City's. Because when a state owns a football club, especially an authoritarian state, the financial oversight and scrutiny that controls individuals and companies do not apply.

They are spending what they want and then dressing up books to look complicit.

 

[Boavista]

They need to break the club's financial power by implementing European/worldwide salary caps and transfer fee limits for a particular window based on the average turnover of the clubs in that league. FFP was a joke - it was designed to lock in place the power of the already rich clubs. What a club spends has to be limited to the league's own wealth as a mean.
Money has killed this game. The only way out of it is to take the money out of the equation a bit.

That wouldn't work unfortunately. Money has killed the game, but it's not just oligarch money itself. There's a massive imbalance between leagues, and how could there not be. The Croatian league is never going to generate as much as the Italian league for instance. It makes little difference to teams in Europe whether they're being outmuscled by a sheikh in Paris, or because Premier League teams are swimming in tv money. Tying salary caps to league turnover just cements that, and means teams cannot climb the ladder independent of how their league does.

 

[Baneofthegame]

And yet despite all those skeletons in Roman's closet I much prefer to be owned by him than your lot. There's no moral high ground you can take here; it's beyond obvious that were the Glazers in Roman's situation when the USSR was collapsing they'd have done exactly the same and then some. If anything this saga has demonstrated how much more conniving and weasely they are than just about anyone bar Perez.

Given your behaviour in the other thread everyone knows you're gutted the SL is dead and buried - it's just funny that the only people it appeals to are the likes of Trump supporters who are the only ones thick enough to still believe in trickle-down economics.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, all 12 clubs should be ashamed.

 

[Oldyella]

Has anyone used the 'Are we the bad guys?' meme yet?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, all 12 clubs should be ashamed.

Fully agreed. That's why this thread is preposterous - attempting to shift blame to PSG who (despite their foibles and/or selfish motivations) deserve credit for their conduct in all of this is just silly.

 

[ivaldo]

Many seem to be under the illusion that this is all a relatively new issue that's only come about in the last 30 years or so. The trajectory hasn't changed in well over a century. There were cries of derision and scandal when Alf Commons was the first player to transfer for a fee over £1000 in the early 1900s. It ignited debate in the House of Commons, many saying it brought the game into disrepute. Sound familiar? As soon as football transcended beyond the social clubs of it's roots, it was always destined to become the plaything of the filthy rich.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Fully agreed. That's why this thread is preposterous - attempting to shift blame to PSG who (despite their foibles and/or selfish motivations) deserve credit for their conduct in all of this is just silly.

Absolutely 100% agreed.

 

[diarm]

PSG don't deserve a bit of credit. You can be ashamed of what our clubs have done and still not have to praise what a corrupt state who own a corrupt football club did out of self interest to protect their tv deals and a corrupt world cup.

 

[Crustanoid]

The real culprits are the Americans who tried to fecking franchise us! Other people/groups being cnuts doesnt negate the fact our owners are cnuts as well.

I think the sooner people realise there are two sets of problems here which have led us to this point the better.

The plastic clubs with disgraceful sportswashing projects, inflating everything and making competition unfair

The leeching owners hanging onto historic clubs, profiting and sucking the life out of everything.

One set of arseholes is reacting to another

Both need to go

 

[Smores]

Just whataboutism plain and simple.

Why are some so intent on deflecting to fight the clubs corner here? Does it make you feel better or something?

The club/owners need to be accountable for what they've done and as this last few days have shown it's the fans that can best do that. This "well they're worse" is the type of nonsense tribalism i was glad to see mostly avoided.

 

[Piratesoup]

Can't say if it's trolling or just stupid...

"Any sufficiently advanced stupditiy is indistinguishable from trolling and vice versa."
Arthur C. Clarke or someone, I dunno.