Sven-Göran Eriksson | diagnosed with terminal cancer

[Paxi]

Hmm, comparing Ronaldo with Heskey, Owen with Rivaldo, Beckham with Ronaldinho, Cole with Roberto Carlos or Cafú with Danny Mills, do you really believe they were on the same level of talent?

What? No one is comparing them. I said England from 2000-2008 had excellent squads. I've never said anything like comparing Cafu to Mills! That's just silly.

Edit: Before people go apeshit, I never said England squad was better than Brazil's. Just said that England had an excellent squad in the 00's which is undoubtedly true.

 

[SCP]

With that line of argument 2002 is not an failure, even if Brazil played almost 45 minutes with 10, after the red card from Ronaldinho, 2004 and 2006 were details, in 2004 the game was more open in 2006 more tactical, Portugal played extra time with more one player and there were no chances.

In my opinion Sven was by far the best England manager England had from 2000 until now, England had an good squad and was tactically organized, even if when they played against more technical teams they struggled to play with creativity, their game was easier to predict, this said from an portuguese perspective, but it was not easy games for Portugal.

 

[tentan]

No England manager has matched him since. I thought his teams always played well, never really got outplayed by any oppostion in major tournaments and probably a bit unlucky to not get to a semifinal.


Their 2006 team would've been worthy winners, all of them at their peak too.


---------------Robinson---------------
Neville---Ferdinand---Terry------Cole
Beckham---Gerrard---Lampard--J.Cole
--------------Rooney---Owen-----------

 

[Paxi]

Which manager would succeed with England though? Capello couldn't and he was one the greats of his generation. Maybe if he took over England in the late 90's would've he made a difference in his tenure?

 

[SCP]

Which manager would succeed with England though? Capello couldn't and he was one the greats of his generation. Maybe if he took over England in the late 90's would've he made a difference in his tenure?

The problem with England is not the foreign manager, more the way young players are teached and developed in the Academies, they need to be less obsessed with the physical aspect of the game and select players by their creativity and decision making.

I remember in 2006 in an interview with Marcotti, Vialli said that in an conversation he had with Sven, England players did not wanted to play in a 4/4/2 diamond because they were not used to it, that would be very hard to understand for an Continental player, just an example.

 

[Paxi]

The problem with England is not the foreign manager, more the way young players are teached and developed in the Academies, they need to be less obsessed with the physical aspect of the game and select players by their creativity and decision making.

I remember in 2006 in an interview with Marcotti, Vialli said that in an conversation he had with Sven, England players did not wanted to play in a 4/4/2 diamond because they were not used to it, that would be very hard to understand for an Continental player, just an example.

That's absolutely true, I agree.

 

[SCP]

That's absolutely true, I agree.

By the way, that does not mean England cannot play like that keeping their style of fast games, it is always hard to understand why players like Glenn Hoddle or Chris Waddle were more admired or respected in French media than in the British media, or an player like Scholes why was it so hard to mix him with Lampard or Gerrard.

The key is to invest in the qualifications of coaches, because the foreign managers can come but they will only fix the problem in the short term, for example the current generation of 97 and 2000 in England is talented, but with all the money in England they need to play at an higher level, then you see an player like Loftus Cheek with no minutes at Chelsea and think, would not be better for him, or Solanke and others be playing in smaller leagues, like Portugal, Holland or Belgium at the Champions League, even receiving less money, one step behind to give two in front in the future.

 

[Paxi]

By the way, that does not mean England cannot play like that keeping their style of fast games, it is always hard to understand why players like Glenn Hoddle or Chris Waddle were more admired or respected in French media than in the British media, or an player like Scholes why was it so hard to mix him with Lampard or Gerrard.

The key is to invest in the qualifications of coaches, because the foreign managers can come but they will only fix the problem in the short term, for example the current generation of 97 and 2000 in England is talented, but with all the money in England they need to play at an higher level, then you see an player like Loftus Cheek with no minutes at Chelsea and think, would not be better for him, or Solanke and others be playing in smaller leagues, like Portugal, Holland or Belgium at the Champions League, even receiving less money, one step behind to give two in front in the future.

I don't have a clue why there is this thing where English players are underappreciated but it happened with Scholes. Xavi Alonso and Xavi were known to say that if Scholes were Spanish he'd be revered. Also there is a case for Carrick. It's baffling all the same.

 

[SCP]

I don't have a clue why there is this thing where English players are underappreciated but it happened with Scholes. Xavi Alonso and Xavi were known to say that if Scholes were Spanish he'd be revered. Also there is a case for Carrick. It's baffling all the same.

It is true, an player like David Batty had more matches for England than Carrick, but the problem is always the media, players have to be strong, tackle, run with no purpose, instead of using players like Scholes, Carrick or in the past Hoddle or Waddle had to play an type of game who didn't exploited their potential.

Anyway this is about Sven and it wasn't his fault, England needs to certificate more coaches, I heard it is more expensive to be certificated in England than Spain, Germany or Portugal.

 

[Paxi]

It is true, an player like David Batty had more matches for England than Carrick, but the problem is always the media, players have to be strong, tackle, run with no purpose, instead of using players like Scholes, Carrick or in the past Hoddle or Waddle had to play an type of game who didn't exploited their potential.

Anyway this is about Sven and it wasn't his fault, England needs to certificate more coaches, I heard it is more expensive to be certificated in England than Spain, Germany or Portugal.

Oh, definitely back on point, Sven was the least of England's problems. Imo, there should be a case study about Englands failings over 00's

 

[SCP]

Oh, definitely back on point, Sven was the least of England's problems. Imo, there should be a case study about Englands failings over 00's

I think you should watch the match England vs Hungary at Wembley in 1953 and check what he media said at the time and could be said today, it is cultural and reaction to change.

 

[Paxi]

I think you should watch the match England vs Hungary at Wembley in 1953 and check what he media said at the time and could be said today, it is cultural and reaction to change.

Erm, SCP, I'm not that jazzed. I'm struggling to like football post 1990.

Ps - I've started being a footie fan in 2001.

 

[SCP]

Erm, SCP, I'm not that jazzed. I'm struggling to like football post 1990.

Ps - I've started being a footie fan in 2001.

I know, but if you like football you will be excited to see the type of football the Hungarians played at the time, it dismisses all theory that tactics do not matter, to understand what you see today you need to check what was done yesterday, and there is highlights in youtube, you can see Nandor Hidegkuti playing as an false 9 way before Messi.

 

[Paxi]

I know, but if you like football you will be excited to see the type of football the Hungarians played at the time, it dismisses all theory that tactics do not matter, to understand what you see today you need to check what was done yesterday, and there is highlights in youtube, you can see Nandor Hidegkuti playing as an false 9 way before Messi.

I know what you're saying about tactics but you can't use Hungarians as they were unorthodox as they come.

 

[matherto]

Set the team up in an archaic manner even then and completely bowed to pressure and status when he picked his teams.

We always used to go 1-0 up and then settle for it and then inevitably concede and then lose to better opponents.

Brazil at the 2002 World Cup was the archetypal SVE match.

We had a decent team but unless we broke free of the 4-4-2 and weren't dedicated to playing Gerrard-Lampard in a two then we were never going to do better than we did.

 

[SCP]

I know what you're saying about tactics but you can't use Hungarians as they were unorthodox as they come.

If anything they were the biggest tactical inovators of the game, they inspired Michels and Kovacs to Total Football, but this is for another thread.

 

[Paxi]

If anything they were the biggest tactical inovators of the game, they inspired Michels and Kovacs to Total Football, but this is for another thread.

Definitely for another thread. I knew Hungarians were amazing. Though you can not say England had anything other than excellent squad over 00's

 

[Tarrou]

taking Walcott to the world cup was a bizarre decision

 

[Infordin]

Looking at the squad, however, he had 7,8 world class players who were arguably the best in their positions at the time. FFS Spain in their domination didnt even have that. Germany in the world cup winning squad didn't even have that. Perspective.

Spain had Casillas, Puyol, Ramos, Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta, Torres (2008) and Villa who were all world class. Likewise, Spain's absolute best players (Xavi & Iniesta) were better than England's best players.

In terms of squad talent, England probably should have won Euro 2004 however, if only Sven played this formation

Robinson
Neville - Terry - Ferdinand - Cole
Scholes - Hargreaves - Lampard
Beckham - Owen - Gerrard

 

[Oakie]

Spain had Casillas, Puyol, Ramos, Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta, Torres (2008) and Villa who were all world class. Likewise, Spain's absolute best players (Xavi & Iniesta) were better than England's best players.

In terms of squad talent, England probably should have won Euro 2004 however, if only Sven played this formation

Robinson
Neville - Terry - Ferdinand - Cole
Scholes - Hargreaves - Lampard
Beckham - Owen - Gerrard

thst would not of worked gerrard would always be in lampards space i wanted us to go 3 at the back we had the team to do it

1343 and i would we had crazy good cb then i would drop lampard as gerrard was the box to box type then

 

[11101]

Better than anyone we've had since Hoddle. With one glaring exception he made the right selections and had us playing good football. If only he stood up to the pressure to play a Gerrard and Lampard CM he could have been a winner.

 

[worcesterred]

It may have been youthful naivety but during his reign I felt like England were genuine contenders. Bad luck played its part, but there was no excuse for deciding to put Heskey on against France in 2004.

 

[giorno]

If anything they were the biggest tactical inovators of the game, they inspired Michels and Kovacs to Total Football, but this is for another thread.

Jack reynolds was the father of dutch school of total football

At the same time, hungarians and austrians were doing something similar in '30s and of course, the great river plate dubbed "la maquina"

Di Stefano was perhaps the first total player, could play in any position and routinely did

Guardiola's tactics are nothing more than the natural evolution of tactics born in the 1930s


About sven, i think those england teams were overrated and when you look at his record in international competitions, you can't really say he did a bad job. He never had the best team in any tournament, went out twice on penalties, once to the hosts, and once to a superior brazil side

 

[Champagne Football]

Sven was very over rated. England do not have the technical level or reserves of talent of other countries but with the right coach and the right system then you can get around that. England should be appointing managers who have done it in the premier league and who've made a mark in Europe with an English club but it's not easy to find a manager like that available. Harry Redknapp is probably closest you'll find. But they should be trying to get a Pochettino or a Jose or a Klopp.

Sven played a big role in Scholes retiring as he couldn't find a system that kept Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard happy. A better coach than Sven would have figured that one out with possibly Gerrard and Becks on the flanks and Scholes, Hargreaves and Lampard in a 3 man midfield. Sven wasn't an intimidating enough motivator also like Jose, Big Sam, Fergie etc to get that extra 10% out of the players

 

[giorno]

In terms of squad talent, England probably should have won Euro 2004 however, if only Sven played this formation

Robinson
Neville - Terry - Ferdinand - Cole
Scholes - Hargreaves - Lampard
Beckham - Owen - Gerrard

France:
Barthez-thuram/sagnol-desailly/thuram-gallas-lizarazu-makelele-vieira-pires-zidane-henry-trezeguet

Italy:
Buffon-panucci-cannavaro-nesta-zambrotta-pirlo-gattuso-perrotta/zanetti/camoranesi-totti-vieri-cassano/del piero

Netherlands:
VDS-Reiziger-Stam-de boer-van bronkhorst-davids-seedorf-cocu-robben-kluivert-RVN

 

[Solver]

He's part of the same species as Wenger.

but they don't even get close to Peter Beardsely

 

[Treble_Winning]

The Brazil team in 2002 was a truly amazing team with some incredible players. Stacked with quality. I don't think that team gets enough credit. Criminally under rated. England lost to them in the QF due to a goalkeeping error, no shame in that. They were a world class team. Present-day Brazil is an embarrassment in comparison.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

He did fine. Look at the three tournaments:

2002 - Knocked a hugely talented Argentina out of the groups before succumbing to a Brazil side whose five world-class players (Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Cafu) were different gravy.
2004 - Played the best football of his reign and a little unlucky to go out to a strong Portugal side on penalties.
2006 - Cancelled out by Portugal in the quarter-finals.

Agree, he did a fine job with England. Just fine level though, better compare to his successors so far.

Perhaps due to his relax personality with the Eng players, he was able to take the pressure from media from the players and they are able to play better that way. Well, idk. The Eng squad during his reign is far more convincing than the ones after him.

His biggest costly blunder would definitely have to be the mismanagement of Paul Scholes, England's key player. Even when Scholes was played out of position on the left, he delivered.World class.

Played Scholes in left midfield.


Without derailing the thread why was Scholes so.. ..not underrated but under appreciated for England? It's a fecking Joke.

Edit :

I'd swallow my own tongue if someone did that from my own country.

 

[noodlehair]

"First half good. Second half, not so good"

 

[redflair]

England's passing culture wasn't ingrained then - and it isn't now.

That's why they don't win international tournaments. Nothing to do with managers.

 

[Red Star One]

Sven's tenure was the last time I considered England a major threat during international tournaments. Class manager.

 

[horsechoker]

England's passing culture wasn't ingrained then - and it isn't now.

That's why they don't win international tournaments. Nothing to do with managers.

But isn't on the manager to install something like that? LVG did it with us, it didn't work out but he did it.

 

[K2K]

Looking at stats one might say he did well.
Looking at the squad, however, he had 7,8 world class players who were arguably the best in their positions at the time. FFS Spain in their domination didnt even have that. Germany in the world cup winning squad didn't even have that. Perspective.

Who are this players that were the best in their position?

I'd be interested in your list of 8.

 

[Kentonio]

All of these players except Cole and Robinson were considered amongst the best in the world

Err, what? Cole was arguably the best left back in the world during much of his career.

 

[horsechoker]

Err, what? Cole was arguably the best left back in the world during much of his career.

Joe Cole mate.

 

[Kentonio]

Joe Cole mate.

Ah, that makes more sense.

 

[balaks]

The England team was (and still is) quite overrated imo and although they had some good players they never really seemed to put in a 'team' performance of any substance, or at least not with enough regularlity to progress in perhaps the way they could have at major tournaments. Could they have won a major tournament? Yeah probably. Some of the players believed their own hype at times and generally fell apart when finally up against a good team. How much of this was Eriksson's fault? No idea really although he seemed to be the type of manager to encourage players to 'buy into the hype' rather than try and create a strong team ethic so he must be at least partially responsible for their failure.

 

[Raees]

England's passing culture wasn't ingrained then - and it isn't now.

That's why they don't win international tournaments. Nothing to do with managers.

Spot on.

That said, England's biggest weakness was that CDM position and the failure to use Scholes as a CM from 2002 onwards. Massive waste of his talent. England also lacked a world class wideman who could break the lines and help them counter more dangerously.

Their defence was the best in the world alongside the Italians but the team wasn't functional going forwards, and it was star players just thrown together with no care given to how to create a dangerous team. Still a solid side and I think under Woy, we'd have gone out group stages even with that side but Erik played it safe and was unable to add elements to the team which would have made us world beaters.. he lacked the vision to compensate for the weaknesses of the side.

James
Neville Rio Terry Cole
Hargreaves Scholes
Winger Rooney Winger
Owen
​

Issue was that Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard, all featured best in a central area.. and the side lacked balance. We ended up just shoehorning everyone into the team and it was just a static, very central team which lacked the requisite flair and intelligent use of possession to hurt top sides.

What we needed was a Barnes/Waddle pair on the flanks to really give the side some gusto.. or Bale (someone of that ilk).

 

[giorno]

England's biggest problem was the lack of fitness come tournament time, actually. Erikson was the last manager to manage to bring a half-fit team to a tournament

 

[Fenomeno9]

He did well IMO.

The Brazil team in 2002 was a truly amazing team with some incredible players. Stacked with quality. I don't think that team gets enough credit. Criminally under rated. England lost to them in the QF due to a goalkeeping error, no shame in that. They were a world class team. Present-day Brazil is an embarrassment in comparison.

As much as I celebrated that World Cup win and think that overall it was a great team overall, I have to be fair, they won a fairly weak WC. I'China, Turkey, Costa Rica is not the most stellar opposition even though Turkey gave us a lot of trouble. You can say it not our fault that the other top team was eliminated and you play who is in front of you and I won't disagree. I don't think the views at that time was stack with quality either considering how bad they were leading up to the tournament. It wasn't until after they won they got rated as high as they are now and I believe that mostly because of the front three.