Tactical lineups post-Amorim

BenitoSTARR said:
Lemmens
Mazraoui De Ligt Martinez Shaw
Casemiro Mainoo
Mbeumo Bruno Cunha
Šeško​

Maybe Mount instead of Mainoo or Amad even.

Feels bit rubbish not fitting Amad in the starting XI he’s been possibly best player other than Bruno.
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What you listed but right now I'd have Mbeumo up front and Amad on the right. Sesko still getting plenty of chances of course.
 
We have much more flexibility in a back 4:

‐-------------------Lammens
Maz/Dalot--De light/Yoro-Martinez/Maguire/Heaven-Shaw/Dorgu

Then we could go 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-1-2-1-2/2-1

4-3-3 Variants:

Mainoo-Case-Bruno
Amad-Mbuemo-Cunha

Mount-Case-Bruno
Amad-Mbuemo-Cunha

Amad-Case-Bruno
Mbuemo-Sesko-Cunha

4-2-3-1:

Case-Urgate/Mainoo/Bruno
Mbuemo-Amad-Cunha
Sesko

4-1-2-1-2

Case
Mainoo-Mount
Bruno/Amad
Mbuemo-Cunha/Sesko

Or any variations of these players, we are stacked in the #10 position, Collyer has also come back so the midfield doesnt look as light as it did in the 343 abomination we've been playing
 
Everyone fit, this should be my starting XI in a 4-2-3-1

Lammens
Mazraoui De Ligt Martinez Shaw
Casemiro Mainoo
Amad Bruno Cunha
Mbeumo

There's a bit of flexibility up front. If Amad is struggling at RW there's the option of moving Mbeumo there and bringing Sesko on CF.

I know Bruno never gets subbed but if he's not available, there's the option of playing Cunha in the 10, moving Mbeumo to LW and playing Sesko CF. Or even playing Mount as a 10.

Not crazy about the midfield. Casemiro is probably in his last season at the club and would playing with Mainoo give him the legs he needs around him?

Back 4 looks decent enough although Shaw will need to be replaced soon. Dorgu is an alright stop gap or squad player but long term he's not good enough to be a starter at LB. And unfortunately de Ligt and Licha never seem to be fit at the same time.
 
There's a couple of decisions to be made. Who starts alongside De Ligt at CB.

And then there's how you deal with the Mbeumo/Amad situation. Two of our best players but in the same position. If we had two games a week we might get away with rotating them to keep them happy, but with one game a week one of them will be furious to be spending so much time on the bench. We can experiment with occasionally playing Mbeumo on the left wing to open up some gametime for Amad but it's not ideal, it will be a headache.


Lammens
Maz De Ligt ? Shaw
Casemiro Mainoo
Mbeumo Bruno Cunha
Sesko


We can play Bruno deeper and have Mount behind the striker also, and Mainoo drops to bench.
 
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For me it has to be 4231. A 433 with one 6 and two 8s is tricky for me because I don't think we have the player to play that solo 6. Casemiro just doesn't have the legs for it, and every time we have tried to invert a FB it has looked awful.

Id be going double pivot as our defensive shape off the ball.

I wanna see traditional, united style attacking, overlapping FBs providing a lot of our width, with the wide attackers cutting in on their stronger foot, and a free role 10. Basically the most traditional interpretation of a 4231.

I think we have sooooooo many options for that system. To me we have inadvertently built a squad full of players who can play multiple roles in that shape.

But with everyone fit, at home against standard PL opposition, the team I'm most excited to see would be:

-------------Lammens---------------
Maz-De Ligt-Martinez-Shaw
-------------Cas-Bruno--------------
------Amad-Mount-Cunha------
---------------Mbuemo---------------
 
quadrant said:
I expect any manager coming in will play a back 4. So something like the following

Lammens
Maz - De Ligt - Martinez - Shaw
Casemiro - Mainoo
Bruno
Mbeumo -------------- Cunha
Sesko
​
- Yoro and Heaven to come in for games where we need pace in the defensive line
- Dalot and Dorgu to come as full backs to manage the fitness of Maz and Shaw
- Mbeumo, Cunha and Sesko to fight with Amad and Mount for a slot in the attacking line up
- Ugarte as sub to replace Casemiro or Mainoo as needed

While there's a question mark about individual quality, the squad is actually pretty well set up for a 4-3-3. And there's a lot of options when you think about playing Martinez at LB, or Shaw at CB, Mazraoui Mount at no 10, Cunha or Mbeumo at no 9, etc.
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I like that, but Heaven for Shaw. I don't think Shaw will last much longer. (If he does, then his whole career has been a transparent sham.)

And if Ole's in charge, you know he's going to give some academy players some reasonable amounts of time.
 
You have to remember the forward line of Cunha/Sesko/Mbeumo has still only played a handful of games together. I would almost just leave them to it for the rest of the season. It takes time to build an understanding.

Midfield has been the problem, so do all your experimenting in that area.

I would still like to see one of Yoro/Heaven in the back four for most games to keep them developing.

The likes of Shaw/Maguire/Casemiro should be phased out as the second half of the season progresses.
 
For the sake of suggesting something different…

Commit to a next gen foundation, which I think should include Mainoo, Amad, Yoro and Heaven.

I actually think this bunch with Case organising could work well

Mainoo - Amad
——— Case
Heaven - Yoro

Give Amad creative freedom with Kobbie and Case linking it together and keeping it simple
 
The problem with any 4 at the back set up, and problems can be solved of course, is that Case can't handle being in a double pivot, let alone a single one, and needs help. You almost have to have Case sitting in front of the back four with Ugarte as a marauding ball hunter but then the ball progression is terrible so you have to slot Mainoo in there as well. That leaves Bruno, Cunha, Mbeumo, Amad, Mount, Sesko battling out for the front three spots. But whatever combination you have as the front three will leave holes. Most notably, we will lack width on one or both sides. Could put Bruno behind Mbeumo and Amad against low blocks. Could put Cunha behind Mbeumo and Sesko to counter-attack. Pressing is going to be an issue at times.

Think you maybe have to start Dorgu at left back and when in possession he offers width on the left, The back four becomes a back three, maybe giving Yoro a chance to start at right back.

Something like on paper:

----------------Lammens--------
------Yoro - MDL - Martinez - Dorgu-----
-------Ugarte - Case - Mainoo------------
--------------------Bruno-----------------------
------------Mbeumo - Amad-------------

But in possession would functionally look more like:
--------------------Lammens-----------
------------Yoro - MDL - Martinez------
---------------------Case----------
--Amad- Ugarte - Mainoo - Dorgu--
--------------------Bruno---------
-------------------Mbeumo---------

Or:

-----------------Lammens---------------
-----Yoro - MDL - Martinez - Dorgu---
---------Ugarte - Case - Mainoo---------
-------------Mbeumo - Cunha-----------
-----------------------Sesko----------

Which in attacking phases would look more like"

-----------------Lammens------------------
----------Yoro - MDL - Martinez---------
---------------Case --- Ugarte------------
-------------------Mainoo--------------------
---Mbeumo -- Cunha ------ Dorgu---
--------------------Sesko-----------------------
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Mount, Amad, Obi, and Zirkzee to rotate across the front three.
Yoro Heaven and Maguire to rotate at centre back.
Ugarte to rotate into CM.
Dalot Dorgu to rotate LB RB


Depth, options, perfect.
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Where does Mount fit in a 4-2-3-1 assuming Bruno is the permanent 10? I don't think he has the speed or running power to play as a wide man in a front 3 (as opposed to playing as one of the 10s in a 343).

I think Amorim's departure is going to adversely affect him the most out of all our squad as there's no natural role for him anymore.

Also, I can't see where Zirkzee is going to fit in. Again, the 10 seems the only natural fit for him in a 4231, and he's not getting ahead of Bruno. And if Bruno wasn't available, I'd sooner have Cunha and Mount in there ahead of Zirkzee.
 
Amad has to start.

He's one of our best pressers (has a knack for pinching the ball off defenders), is our best dribbler, one of the few players we have who can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces, works incredibly hard defensively, can score and create.

The amount of line-ups without him (here and other threads) really surprises me.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
Where does Mount fit in a 4-2-3-1 assuming Bruno is the permanent 10? I don't think he has the speed or running power to play as a wide man in a front 3 (as opposed to playing as one of the 10s in a 343).

I think Amorim's departure is going to adversely affect him the most out of all our squad as there's no natural role for him anymore.

Also, I can't see where Zirkzee is going to fit in. Again, the 10 seems the only natural fit for him in a 4231, and he's not getting ahead of Bruno. And if Bruno wasn't available, I'd sooner have Cunha and Mount in there ahead of Zirkzee.
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Proper rotation at number 10. No more of Bruno playing 90 minutes every single match.
 
Yagami said:
Amad has to start.

He's one of our best pressers (has a knack for pinching the ball off defenders), is our best dribbler, one of the few players we have who can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces, works incredibly hard defensively, can score and create.

The amount of line-ups without him (here and other threads) really surprises me.
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I agree. I'd have him RW and Mbeumo CF in all starting line ups. He's too good to leave out.

If he's not playing well in a given game, we'd always have the option of moving Mbeumo to RW and putting Sesko up top.
 
For Burnley I expect it'll be ....

Lammens
Dalot Heaven Martinez Shaw
Ugarte Casemiro
Mount Bruno Cunha
Sesko

Mount and Bruno to come off at some point.

With everyone back you change Dalot, Ugarte and Mount for Mazraoui, Mainoo and Mbuemo. Amad potentially for Sesko unless he kicks on.
 
I think with any front foot approach, one of Heaven or Yoro may get to play simply based on pace. I know Yoro has been done recently for initial acceleration, but in a recovery footrace, he has shown he can catch up with most, unlike De Ligt and Martinez.
 
I think we have to go 4-2-3-1 but accept that we can't get all our good players into the first XI. There are going to be some very good players on the bench, and that's as it should be at a club like United. It will be less of an issue when we have European football back.

My first-choice lineup would be:
------------------Lammens-----------------
-Maz----De Ligt--Martinez--Shaw-
----------Casemiro-------Ugarte--------
---Mbuemo-----Bruno----Cunha-----
-------------------Sesko----------------------

Everyone in a position that suits them. Heaven and Yoro to get plenty of rotation in defence. Amad, Mainoo and Mount to get plenty of rotation in the attacking three. Collyer to get opportunities in midfield, but we really need a couple of signings there. Zirkzee to give Sesko the occasional breather by playing as a false 9, but again, we really need a signing there.

The one player who could work as a square peg in a round hole is Mount in Ugarte's position. I like Mount, but we have so many options in that attacking three he's not going to play many games. And he seems to have all the characteristics to play deeper: he runs all day, plays responsibly and is surely capable of making simple passes to keep possession. I'd rather convert him to a deep-lying midfielder than Bruno, who's always going to offer more in the final third.
 
With all fit:

------------------------Lammens------------------
Mazraoui----De Ligt------Heaven-----Shaw
---------------Casemiro---------Martinez--------------
Amad-------------------Bruno-------------------------Cunha
----------------------------Sesko-----------------------------------

Maz is more defensive than Dalot but also a better and more intelligent footballer. Him sitting back more allows Shaw further up the pitch which we'll really need for the overlap past Cunha.
Ugarte is shite. Mainoo too many deficiencies to rely as a regular starter. Martinez offers stronger defensive support, press resistant and better passing range. Would also allow Casemiro to bomb on and crash the box on occasion.
We need Sesko to start, can't be bothering with squeezing in midget Mbuemo as a CF when Sesko is a complete weapon that can be used.
 
442 diamond please:

Sesko. Mbeumo
Cunha
Fernandes. Mainoo
Casemiro
Dorgu Heaven De Ligt Masraoui
 
When you forget about previous formations and just look at each players' prefered or ideal position the lineup kind of sorts itself out:

GK - Lammens, Bayindir

RB - Mazraoui, Dalot

CB - De Ligt, Martinez, Yoro, Maguire, Heaven

LB - Dorgu, Shaw

DM - Casemiro, Ugarte

CM - Mount, Mainoo

AM - Bruno, Zirkzee?

RW - Mbeumo, Amad

CF - Sesko, Obi

LW- Cunha, Lacey?

Could be 4-2-3-1 for more possession/control or 4-3-3 for more pressing/intensity. Another option within the same formation could be Mbeumo up front so both he and Amad can play together.

A variation would be 4-4-2 with Cunha-Lacey as LAM instead of LW and Mount-Mainoo as RAM instead of RM.
 
At full strenght, probably won't be too different from Amorim's lineups. Maybe drop one of Sesko/Cunha for Mainoo or Ugarte I guess.

Biggest difference I reckon will be how the team defends
 
Dorgu is not an attacker, he is awful. Sesko never even tries, looks like he wanted to sign for Arsenal and is going through the motions.

Why has Fletcher decided on 2 defensive midfielders against a team about to be relegated? Especially when one of them is Ugarte who has been absolutely shambolic since he was signed.
 
Biggest problems with the 4231 - out of possession the players don’t know how to press, and we don’t have the midfielders to play out through the centre with. Watching the issues in this Burnley game I already think this season is a write off now.
 
IMHO the formation matters very little when most of the players are just not good enough.
 
We've looked a little open....

But we have created an absolute pan full of chances.

Two cleared off the line

Very suspect disallowed goal.

3 decent Sesko chances

Cunha shot

Ugarte shot.

We look infinitely more dangerous in the final third... Just think about the Everton and West Ham games.

I just can't understand the reversing of Cuhna and Dorgu.....

It seems pretty much every coach on the planet these days just has to do something left field to put their own stamp on things...Cunha has looked pap as a result. Just daft.
 
WPMUFC said:
Backheel FC mixed with Fellaini ball

Tactical masterclass :lol:
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Against the 2nd worst team in the league, yet we still can’t put one in the net. They are practically begging us to score. Ok Martinez should have one, but still. We lack so much quality in important areas.
 
The switch of 10's/wingers worked well for Sesko. Goals aside, I heard a stat that he had the most shots on target of any Striker this season, scored 2...on another day could have had 4.
We have a 6"4 instinctive striker with a great leap and aerial presence. It's not dinosaur simplicity to get some decent service into him first time before the defence can set.
 
To be fair... I take it back on the Dorgu front.... He had a great game overall, and that type of service from the left really suited Sesko.

Cunha didn't look comfortable all night though for me.
 
Amad has shown he can play deeper with defensive discipline. Every time Bruno plays false nine he/we tend to score and be fluid. Thus:


Dalot MDL Yoro Dorgu
Amad Casemiro Mainoo
Mbuemo Bruno Cunha

That front 5 is all technical and can do some serious damage, plus Amad can add some legs to midfield.
 
At the moment, if they’re fit I’d pick Maguire and De Ligt as the back two. Slow as feck but just the experience and organisation will help. Martinez is a loss in terms of creativity but we need the best defenders there.

Dorgu Maguire De Ligt Shaw
Bruno Casemiro
Amad Cunha Mbuemo
Sesko
 
Everyone fit:

Lemons
Mazraoui De Ligt Maguire Shaw
Casemiro Bruno
Mbeumo Amad Mount
Šeško


Dalot can manage the janitorial staff and Cunha would make for a good parking attendent.
 
Waynne said:
Everyone fit:

Lemons
Mazraoui De Ligt Maguire Shaw
Casemiro Bruno
Mbeumo Amad Mount
Šeško


Dalot can manage the janitorial staff and Cunha would make for a good parking attendent.
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That’s a lot of responsibility for Dalot. He would cock it up just like he does when he crosses the ball.
 
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