Talented players with terrible work ethic

[mariachi-19]

Something I hear often, and think is plain wrong, is that some players are technically "gifted", like they were born with some ability to dribble or control the ball, that other players never could be capable of. Like any other form of abilities, good technical ability can be learned, through hard work, repetition, discipline etc.

If there are any ability in football that a player is born with, and that you can't learn if you're not born with, it's physical abilities like height and pace. There's no reason why someone like Andy Caroll shouldn't be able to be as good as Lewandowski or Benzema, who have similar physiques, or why Walcott or Lennon shouldn't reach the level of Sanchez or Willian. In that sense I would rather label players with great physical abilities, but limited techinal ability as the lazy ones, than the ones who are technically "gifted", but don't have the necessary physical or mental abilities.

Sorry but that's wrong. Having coached junior footballers at a reasonable level, players develop different attributes that extend beyond their physical ability. Michael Owen, as example, had one of the best striking instincts ever seen in football. The only player that arguably has come close to it in the last 20 years is Cristiano Ronaldo. Nobody and I mean nobody (not even Messi) has or probably will have the same level of total ball mastery as Ronaldinho had.


A significant amount of drive and practice does go into getting that good, but if it was simply down to practice a lot more players would be that talented

 

[Still ill]

Paul Pogba.



Too soon?

 

[snk123]

Matt Le Tissier
Robinho
Ronaldinho
Riquelme
Quaresma
Adriano
Amr Zaki?
Pato
George Best
Balotelli

 

[Still ill]

Matt Le Tissier
Robinho
Ronaldinho
Riquelme
Quaresma
Adriano
Amr Zaki?
Pato
George Best
Balotelli

I'm sure if will make Zaki's day to see his name included on that list. The lazy shit.

 

[PvsNP]

Can't believe we're taking this thread seriously after the OP mentioned Nick Fecking Powell !!!

Thought a little laughter would get the thread going.

 

[T_Model101]

I'm sure if will make Zaki's day to see his name included on that list. The lazy shit.

As if he'll be that bothered to read it

 

[Njord]

Sorry but that's wrong. Having coached junior footballers at a reasonable level, players develop different attributes that extend beyond their physical ability. Michael Owen, as example, had one of the best striking instincts ever seen in football. The only player that arguably has come close to it in the last 20 years is Cristiano Ronaldo. Nobody and I mean nobody (not even Messi) has or probably will have the same level of total ball mastery as Ronaldinho had.


A significant amount of drive and practice does go into getting that good, but if it was simply down to practice a lot more players would be that talented

I'm not saying that the difference between good and great comes down to pratice. What I'm contesting is the idea that someone like James Milner has reached the height of his given potential through hard work, while Hatem Ben Arfa was given everything, but because he was lazy didn't become a top player. Noone reaches the technical level of Ben Arfa if they're lazy, and a lot those that aren't "gifted" could probably have reached a far higher level if they worked on the right things their entire life.

From what I've read, there have been some changes in the english youth set up, and I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing players like Foden, Gomes and Sancho coming through, that are very different from former generations.

 

[tentan]

Mesut Ozil
Luke shaw
Paul Pogba

 

[donkeyfish]

There's a difference between being lazy on the pitch and off it.

 

[Harry190]

Adriano, during his short peak, was the freakiest striker football has ever seen. That left leg was a weapon of mass destruction, his whole body was. Talk about gifted.

 

[matherto]

Pogba.

 

[Dansk]

While he was far more than just some talented player with potential, Michael Laudrup had a notoriously poor work ethic. Cruyff had the following to say about him:

“one of the most difficult players I have worked with. When he gives 80 to 90 percent he is still by far the best, but I want 100 percent and he rarely does that.”

In the early 90s, Michael Laudrup quit the Danish national team because he didn't want to play for his country. They went on to win the Euros without him, and he did return later, but you could always tell that he wasn't really giving everything he had.

He was one of the most gifted players ever seen, but while he certainly delivered many world class performances, he won't go down in history as one of the absolute greatest names in football. If he had given 100%, he might have. There was a certain laziness about him, like he felt he'd done enough without doing all he could.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I see a lot of names being thrown around. But what exactly is terrible work ethic? Most of these guys went to training every day and showed up for matches.

So do you mean didn’t go above and beyond to reach their supposed potential?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I see a lot of names being thrown around. But what exactly is terrible work ethic? Most of these guys went to training every day and showed up for matches.

So do you mean didn’t go above and beyond to reach their supposed potential?

It is all nonsense since we have never seen these guys train.

 

[ash_86]

Adriano, during his short peak, was the freakiest striker football has ever seen. That left leg was a weapon of mass destruction, his whole body was. Talk about gifted.

Fookin hell, is he even human??

 

[Sterling Archer]

It is all nonsense since we have never seen these guys train.

Right?! Unless there are truthful accounts from coaches or family this is a bit unfair .

 

[Bojan11]

Can't believe nobody has mentioned Adebayor. He had the tools to be Drogba+.

Yep.

Rio Ferdinand said he was toughest striker he played. Says it all really.

 

[Peyroteo]

Yep.

Rio Ferdinand said he was toughest striker he played. Says it all really.

Must have played him when Adebayor had a few months left in his contract.

 

[Bojan11]

Must have played him when Adebayor had a few months left in his contract.

Nah he was good when Arsenal last beat us at Old Trafford in 2006.

 

[BenjaminP]

Ji Sung Park



white text

 

[marukomu]

Lots of these Brazilians. They can't even be arsed to write their full names.

 

[simonhch]

So Matt Le Tissier, just go and watch a compilation of his best goals. Absolutely fecking ridiculous how talented he was.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Right?! Unless there are truthful accounts from coaches or family this is a bit unfair .

And while there are truthful accounts from a few coaches about Shaw, the OP still suggests that it's too soon to include Shaw in the list. Baffling.

 

[meamth]

He’s the player with more skills than anybody else, is a shame because he would be the GOAT by far.

He achieved everything, he enjoyed his life to the fullest. That's more important than anything in this world.

Not everyone has that determination to maintain their discipline and motivation to be the best until late 30's. CR7 is that role model.

 

[kouroux]

He’s the player with more skills than anybody else, is a shame because he would be the GOAT by far.

Exactly

He is the greatest of all time.. What a player..

There hasn't been a single player in history who has awed me as much as his true best.

 

[Red Star One]

Something I hear often, and think is plain wrong, is that some players are technically "gifted", like they were born with some ability to dribble or control the ball, that other players never could be capable of. Like any other form of abilities, good technical ability can be learned, through hard work, repetition, discipline etc.

If there are any ability in football that a player is born with, and that you can't learn if you're not born with, it's physical abilities like height and pace. There's no reason why someone like Andy Caroll shouldn't be able to be as good as Lewandowski or Benzema, who have similar physiques, or why Walcott or Lennon shouldn't reach the level of Sanchez or Willian. In that sense I would rather label players with great physical abilities, but limited techinal ability as the lazy ones, than the ones who are technically "gifted", but don't have the necessary physical or mental abilities.

I like to think there’s such thing as talent, a natural ability. Would you also say there’s no reason some decent and quite popular pianist shouldn’t be able to be as good as Mozart or Chopin? No reason why a bloke next door who’s quite good at painting couldn’t become a next Van Gogh or Degas if he only worked harder? And if I worked harder in my primary school, would I become a second Einstein? I don’t think physical abilities like height and pace are the only abilities player’s born with. And I actually think Messi’s talent can well be compared to the one of great artists.

 

[tavtavtav]

Of all things why is Pogba's work ethic being slated as terrible? It's not like he's so ridiculously gifted he's achieved what he has in his career so far despite a terrible work ethic (in fact he seem pretty driven in leaving united and forcing his way into Juve). He doesn't drink alcohol at all, has a lean and defined body and his running numbers are up there with anyone in his position. Manager’s throughout his career never particular complained about application or work ethic (except funnily enough I remember reports about Mourinho being angry he was working with his own Personal Trainer to work on his hamstrings but was apparently making things worse).

Not saying he in particular is a model example of work ethic, but I don't believe that a player being bad form is automatically down to work ethic unless there is a proper indication of it.

 

[shamans]

A lot of the players mentioned here just focused on skillful play for than physicality because they were never good physically. Ozil, Adnan, Ronaldinho etc. That's not "terrible work ethic".

 

[RooneyLegend]

A lot of the players mentioned here just focused on skillful play for than physicality because they were never good physically. Ozil, Adnan, Ronaldinho etc. That's not "terrible work ethic".

How was Dinho not good physically?

So Matt Le Tissier, just go and watch a compilation of his best goals. Absolutely fecking ridiculous how talented he was.

On the other hand no player worked as much as he did on his ball striking.

 

[Class of 63]

What players had the potential to become fantastic players if they just had the right amount of proper work ethic?

From the top of my head:

Ravel Morrison
Anderson
Cassano
Powell
Ben Arfa
Taarabt
Quaresma

I think it's still too early to add Shaw to that list, but it doesn't bode well for him.

Ravel always worked his tripe off when he was on the pitch, his problem, sadly, is he's a fruitcake

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Something I hear often, and think is plain wrong, is that some players are technically "gifted", like they were born with some ability to dribble or control the ball, that other players never could be capable of. Like any other form of abilities, good technical ability can be learned, through hard work, repetition, discipline etc.

If there are any ability in football that a player is born with, and that you can't learn if you're not born with, it's physical abilities like height and pace. There's no reason why someone like Andy Caroll shouldn't be able to be as good as Lewandowski or Benzema, who have similar physiques, or why Walcott or Lennon shouldn't reach the level of Sanchez or Willian. In that sense I would rather label players with great physical abilities, but limited techinal ability as the lazy ones, than the ones who are technically "gifted", but don't have the necessary physical or mental abilities.

I would not go that far but, growing up it was often the guys who were not really working on their games outside of training or matches who had to rely on "working hard" in matches and the ones who were always working on their games made it look easy during matches. And it is nature and nurture and I think it is more on the nurture side especially since the best players tend to come from the same places in the World. And with aforementioned Walcott and guys like Owen Hargreaves, Chris Smalling they did not have top level technique but, you look in their backgrounds you see they all had a relatively late starts in Football.

 

[shamans]

How was Dinho not good physically?

On the other hand no player worked as much as he did on his ball striking.

His skill on the ball outweighed his physical attributes way, way more. He didn't need to focus on running around and tracking back. For a player like him trying on tricks and just attacking is the best use of him

 

[B20]

Not anyone we have heard of. Talented players with out work ethic wash out of Football.

Hagi

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

What about Georgie Best? Obviously hit great heights in his career but was finished at the top level by age 27.

 

[Rossa]

It's a combination of things. I think it's easy to label great technical players as being lazy as often they don't look that ripped or athletic. However, we know little about how many hours they train to be as technical, or how many hours they study tactics. Likewise, you have really fast players like Walcott who are very athletic, you can see with your own eyes that they apply themselves because of their physique, but we also know very little about how much they train on tactics or the technical aspects of the game. Also, for some, the lucky ones, they don't have to train hard to look ripped and muscular. Then you have the few who have the complete package like Ronaldo - great physical attributes, great technique and tactical awareness, and he trains his socks off to maintain and improve every aspect of his game. Messi is just a freak - but at one point in his career, he was a little lazy, wasn't he? Reportedly running less in games than Valdes, and that year, Messi was not as God-like.

As for talent, some things you can improve and some you can't. I talked to a pro volleyball player, and she said that often you would find that the shorter players had the best reflexes, most agile and the best coordination, but naturally struggled for height and reach. The tallest players would often struggle for agility and coordination. But, then there were a handful of very tall players who had the coordination and agility of much shorter players, and they were often the best in the world. I think the same could apply to football - some players have all the attributes, but when they then can't seem to break through, you can definitely start talking about a certain laziness. Another thing about talent is the ability and drive to push yourself that much harder to be the best.

I don't think Ronaldinho was lazy before he had become the best in the world, and maybe he was just happy with that.

What about Downing? He had everything to be a really good winger; he was very fast, a good dribbler and had a very nice cross. If you looked at him, however, you could clearly see he was carrying just a little bit of extra weight and was far from muscular. If he had the same drive that other players had, he would have become so much better.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Not anyone we have heard of. Talented players with out work ethic wash out of Football.

This just isn't true. Le Tissier admitted himself that he was a terrible professional who hated training

“I hated the running, the fitness drills” “My diet was poor, there’s no hiding that," “I used to have fish and chips and other unhealthy stuff the night before a game, and I didn't enjoy fitness at all. But with Bally, as long as you were performing on a Saturday, he didn’t care what you ate or what you did in training. One time he even caught me coming in from a nightclub in the early hours. I was expecting a [scolding] but he said, ‘The way you’re playing you can do what you like!’

If Le Tissier had a great work ethic who knows what he could have achieved in the game, as it was he was happy with where his supreme talent would take him whilst putting in as little effort as possible.

 

[broccoli]

The difference between the greats, such as Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Pele and good players like Neymar, Coutinho, Firmino and Willian are smaller than between those guys and Lallana, Barkley, Wilshere etc. I can't think of a single english world class player ever, who was that type of player. Unless you think it's something genetical that seperates the english from the spanish, brazilian or argentinians, then it means there's a cultural difference, a difference in the football education in the different countries. Because of this I believe it is unfair to label players that have worked their entire lives to be good technically as "lazy" (because they lack other skills), or to say that they are just naturally "gifted".

There were many English players more talented than Neymar, Coutinho, Firmino, Willian, i don't know many historical players from the UK but George Best, Giggs, Scholes, Le Tissier come to mind (I'm leaving out other great players that I don't feel had the same natural talent).

In my opinion and life experience it's obvious that natural talent has nothing to do with nationality or place of birth. Culture will be a heavy influence on the sport you do and enjoy since childhood; In Brazil there's only football basically so it's natural that Brazilians end up with a much bigger pool of technically gifted players and thus easier to pick the talented few which are still not many.

What I'm trying to say is, there's naturally gifted people everywhere around the globe. Very few people apply those talents for football though. What happens in Brazil is that most of them just play football so, through very simple maths, equals to a higher chance of successful players.

Take Portugal for instance. We are a tiny country but all over the years we have been producing fantastic talents and even have had 2 of the best players of all time (Eusébio and CR7) but are we genetically so different from the Spaniards? Or Italians? Greeks? No, CR7 and Eusebio were from two different races but both very naturally gifted, superior motor coordination although Eusebio was a bit more in that regard. The main difference between Portugal and Spain besides population is that Portugal basically just cares about football, everything else is niche, Spain, Italy, etc are culturally more developed countries where other sports are relevant too so the ratio between population and talent pool is not as big as Portugal.

Back in my footballing days it was very difficult to get into a local youth club due to high competition. In high schools you usually had 3-4 very gifted players that would play alone against an entire class and those were the ones who would make it to a local club. Nowadays you pay a fee and you join the club, it's much easier now, I suspect this was happening before in other European countries.

Anyway, do you truly believe that natural talent is just height and muscles? That there aren't genetic cognitive differences between humans? I find it vary hard to believe the validity of that notion.

 

[Physiocrat]

Alvaro Recoba

 

[Schneckerl]

Something I hear often, and think is plain wrong, is that some players are technically "gifted", like they were born with some ability to dribble or control the ball, that other players never could be capable of. Like any other form of abilities, good technical ability can be learned, through hard work, repetition, discipline etc.

If there are any ability in football that a player is born with, and that you can't learn if you're not born with, it's physical abilities like height and pace. There's no reason why someone like Andy Caroll shouldn't be able to be as good as Lewandowski or Benzema, who have similar physiques, or why Walcott or Lennon shouldn't reach the level of Sanchez or Willian. In that sense I would rather label players with great physical abilities, but limited techinal ability as the lazy ones, than the ones who are technically "gifted", but don't have the necessary physical or mental abilities.

sure mate if you just trained properly from an early age on you would have been the next messi.

 

[harms]

Lee Trundle and Robin Friday with similar stories

And from those not mentioned yet — Adrian Mutu. I'm pretty sure that the guy had to pay Chelsea something like 17 millions that they've spent on his transfer.