I don’t get the overrating of Matic. He hasn’t even been that good in this supposed turnaround of his since Ole took over. Herrera as the 6 and Ndombele as the 8 would be infinitely more balanced than Matic as the 6 with Herrera doing all his running for him. They would also be a great pairing if we wanted to play a double pivot and move Pogba further forward.
Tanguy Ndombele | Signed For Spurs
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Herrera’s best period at the club has been when playing as the holder - he outperformed Matic at Chelsea in the same role. Ndombele has played as the anchor the times I’ve watched him and that seems to consistently be his role at Lyon. So a reasonable argument can probably be made that they are both no.6s. Ndombele’s strengths are on the ball, with his purposeful passing and ball-carrying, while he looks suspect defensively other than the obvious athleticism. I would be very interested to see him alongside a sitting midfielder because he does have plenty to his game that could suit that role.
Lucas Tousart when he plays plays as the DM in that Lyon side. Ndombele and Aouar when it’s just those 2 in midfield seem to play like they have Tousart there backing them. Aouar off going everywhere, Ndombele a bit more positional awareness so does tend to hang back just a little bit more but he still wonders out of what I would call a good position in midfield to go and join an attack and leaving no protection at all.
For me Ndombele either replaces Herrera in a 3 or is paired with one of Matic or Herrera in a 2
He seems to have this 'clumsy' way of handling the ball that just annoys me every time. I don't think United should go for him, because his passing, shooting and vision doesn't seem to be up there too. His speed definitely is, but we have more than enough pacy players. I know it's silly saying this now, but we really should be looking for a midfielder like Frankie de Jong, Arthur or Julian Weigl. Players that can stick the ball on their feet and are able to think 2 steps ahead.
I like him from that video alone. Great range of forward thinking passes, great athleticism and is always in space looking for the ball. From those highlights I don't see why he can't play CDM. He reminds me of Kante in some of the tackles, getting right up in their faces. Except he looks much better technically.
I hadn't watched him until Barcelona but I'm sold on the Caf's hype. As mentioned above, get him and Rabiot in and we're set in midfield I think. With one of those players being free, we would still have money left for Sancho and a CB
Weird you think that. His passing and vision is probably one of his best assets imo.
It's not weird when for some reason people initially talked about him as a physical player when it is his skills that made him shine.
Agree with that except I'd say Ndombele plays deepest because thats where he likes to get on the ball and play his passes from. Because of that he's deeper, I dont think it has anything to do with positional awareness, just that he likes to be the one starting moves from deep with his good passing so thats where he tends to be. He's more of a deep lying playmaker than a DM.
I think replacing Ander he would improve our passing but we'd lose a lot of energy, workrate and interceptions from Ander. Plus he's our best big match player. So probably best playing the 2 as a duo so that Ander can do most of the defending and NDombele more the passing which is true of what we're currently doing with Matic and Ander. Matic is more of a passer than someone protecting the backline and Ander helps him a lot.
You’re probably right on that although he does tend to do a lot of stuff in the final 3rd as well and I’m not sure I would personally call him a DLP. He’s a bit of a weird player because he has elements of it all in his game and I tend to think that yeah he maybe likes it further back where he can see the play in front of him but he is very quick to make the forward pass. He is nothing like say a Carrick, Alonso and the likes from what I’ve seen if that makes sense. I still want him but his purchase would pose a lot of questions for Ole to ponder over.
Agree with this, I think Ander is the glue that holds that midfield together and it’s more by his force of will, energy and just his absolute desire to win everything and I just don’t see that in Ndombele. When a ball is there to be won he is great, but he never really goes looking to win things like Ander does. Would just be intresting to see how he’d fit in our midfield.
Yeah I recall you saying that before, I’ve had the chance to watch them a couple of times now and they’ve always started with Aouar and Ndombele in a two. And for me, Ndombele has always been the holder - he generally maintains his anchoring position when his team are building an attack, unless he personally is in possession and takes the opportunity to drive forward/ play a one-two to get into space/ pass a pressing opponent. I’ve rarely seen him look to forage forward and empty the holding midfield position off the ball. I’m not convinced that is merely because he’s more aware than Aouar is as defending is not his forte - I think he’s been assigned that role.
I would play Herrera at no.6 and Ndombele no.8, as I like Herrera in that position and would be looking for a bit more quality in the other role which I would hope Ndombele could provide.
City can have Ndombélé. He's nowhere near the quality of Fernandinho. Doesn't run enough too.
Amazing that some on here would take this guy over Rabiot. Rabiot is much tidier, classier & better range of passes than this guy.
We aren't even sure if Ndombélé's a bigger talent than Aouar.
Amazing that some on here would take this guy over Rabiot. Rabiot is much tidier, classier & better range of passes than this guy.
We aren't even sure if Ndombélé's a bigger talent than Aouar.
This post will be laughed at for years to come
My friend
That's mainly down to tactics and instructions by the coach though, just look at the distance covered from our players when Mourinho was in charged vs Solskjaer's now and you will see why
You may very well be right my friend. I guess time will tell.
Off topic a little but which clubs do you see Rabiot & Ndombélé ending up after this season?
Is this guy better than Kondogbia?
No difference in distance covered, in fact we covered 1-2% more distance under Mourinho.
The major difference was sprints per game. I believe under Mourinho we had 68, while under Ole we had over 140.
I haven't noticed Alderweild having trouble on set pieces, does he?
It's true that there's no Van Dijk or Vidic but I'm not sure defending set pieces is as much about individual talent as scoring them is. Probably the manager and players being focused and marking tightly is.
Also, Pogba and most games one of Lukaku or Matic are quite big, maybe the RB would be solid in that regard too.
But I don't think it's a bad idea to get Lindelof a proper physical CB as a partner, seems like a good fit for him longterm.
There is a long thread Workrate, https://www.redcafe.net/threads/workrate.421867/page-22 which examines this issue. I have posted various individual and team distance covered stats in that thread, during both Mourinho's and Solskjaer's time in charge, including team distance covered stats for all our CL matches this season. The official UEFA CL stats are here: https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2019/statistics/round=2000980/players/index.html
To the extent that it is down to the coach, that is merely a case of what distance they consider acceptable, rather than a maximum figure. For instance, Valencia ran about 9.0 km per 90 mins last season, which Mourinho was prepared to tolerate. Our other right-backs ran considerably further. Dalot ran 10.7 km against Young Boys this season. Similarly, Martial and Rashford covered very different distances when playing left wing for Mourinho (the precise figures are in the Workrate thread).
Under Mourinho, Matic, Fellaini, Herrera and McTominay all averaged well above 11.0 km per 90 mins, typically closer to 11.5 km per 90 mins. Solsjkaer wants his team to cover more distance. Ndombele would have to find an extra 2 km per 90 mins. Is he even capable of that ? Can he do it on a regular basis ?
If it wasn't a huge warning sign, I wouldn't have posted the figures in this thread in the first place.
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Fred can play the Herrera role of hassling and scurrying around. We need a creative midfielder to help us be less Pogba-centric. Can this guy do that?
Edit :Basically the midfielder we need should be capable of being a creative midfielder who's positionally aware - a Carrick type IMO so that there won't be an issue playing him and Pogba both.
Pogba
Fred/Herrera
Herrera/Matic
We have cover for all types except Pogba.
Edit :Basically the midfielder we need should be capable of being a creative midfielder who's positionally aware - a Carrick type IMO so that there won't be an issue playing him and Pogba both.
Pogba
Fred/Herrera
Herrera/Matic
We have cover for all types except Pogba.
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That's why we need to go all out for an Ericksen type or a Verratti since we've missed out on Frenkie de Jong. Supremely talented and creative midfielders to share the creative burden with Pogba.
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To be fair, he also committed a clumsy foul, which led to Montpellier's first goal, but otherwise he was very good.
But there is really few players that can dominate the midfield in a top 5 league in Europe at 22.
Its also a bit interesting that they continue to play Aouar and Ndombele in midfield in 4231. I can imagine Ole would enjoy playing a similar setup.
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Can Pogba play in a 3 midfield with Aouar and Ndombele playing behind him? If so, how much would they cost in total?
I don't think so. Both are at their best with a holding midfielder, just like Pogba. Problem with Auoar is that he plays in a very similar position compared to Pogba. If we'd sign him, one of them would have to play as the RCM. Pogba's performances suffered, when we did that. There's also not really a point in playing Aouar deeper than Pogba, when quite clearly he is more influential further forward, again just like Pogba. If we were to lose Pogba, he'd be a brilliant replacement for him, but I've yet to see either of Pogba and Aouar look as good on the right as they look on the left. NDombele might develop into that player that can play deeper, but at this moment in time he quite often needs someone like Matic or better deeper than him.
Poor defending obviously, but a nice pass regardless.
Eh. Most players arent. I doubt we'll sign someone who is as big a talent
How much have you got? We can make special price
He is not a bigger talent than Aouar that's quite obvious. But It's beyond the point if he's a better fit and more of a finished product right?
He is better than Kondogbia imo.
They're not really similar player, Kondogbia definitely has a few things he does better but I think Tanguy edges him overall.
The only player here who is competent defensively is Pogba and It's a waste to play him in a defensive position.
So really we'd need a better DM say in place of Matic to accommodate both Pogba and TN?
I don't think we will have the liberty to buy two midfielders in this transfer window especially high profile ones. I would almost get Ndombele and play McTominay in the Matic position. He's not good on the ball as such but covers more ground than Matic and clears the ball.... Pogba, Ndombele and McTominay may not be such a bad idea for midfield trio. Once again, not my first choice but if we are to strengthen in other areas like CB, RW and RB, one of the two midfield positions will have to give way.
We should be bringing through Angel Gomes for that role.
Pogba/Gomes
Fred/Herrera
Matic/McTominay/new signing?
If we plan to buy, then maybe get Joao Felix and go with a 4-2-3-1 system.
Wait, what? Did you have a miss-type or have I read this wrong? Are you saying out of the 3 of Aouar, Ndombele and Pogba, Pogba is the only capable defensive one?
He does look clumsy to be fair. Often suspect control and using his athleticism to get him out of jail. Reminds me of Fred. We don't need another one of those. A Carrick or Thiago is what we require
Could Thiago flourish at Utd still do you reckon or has that ship sailed?
We'd have to ask Thiago
Him and Pogba in the same midfield would be great to watch.
Imagine Thiago, Verratti and Pogba. Would be capable of great things offensively. Needs a proper solid backline to work though.
Yep. To be fair, Thiago can put in a huge shift defensively. Was great as a #6 against Real in the 2nd leg of the CL semis last season.
I'm a huge fan of Thiago but he's already 28.... and will still cost us 60m which does not make good business sense.
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