Targeting wingers

davidmichael

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c14mr1v0rg6o

So Simon Stone has said we’re actively targeting wingers as a priority area this summer which as many like myself said before on multiple occasions would be annoying with Amorim getting rid of practically all wingers due to his stupid fecking system, question is who do we target seeing as midfield has to be the main priority area this summer ?
 
davidmichael said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c14mr1v0rg6o

So Simon Stone has said we’re actively targeting wingers as a priority area this summer which as many like myself said before on multiple occasions would be annoying with Amorim getting rid of practically all wingers due to his stupid fecking system, question is who do we target seeing as midfield has to be the main priority area this summer ?
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Which of the wingers Amorim got rid of are you missing from our squad?
 
davidmichael said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c14mr1v0rg6o

So Simon Stone has said we’re actively targeting wingers as a priority area this summer which as many like myself said before on multiple occasions would be annoying with Amorim getting rid of practically all wingers due to his stupid fecking system, question is who do we target seeing as midfield has to be the main priority area this summer ?
Click to expand...
Those wingers were not good enough.
 
davidmichael said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c14mr1v0rg6o

So Simon Stone has said we’re actively targeting wingers as a priority area this summer which as many like myself said before on multiple occasions would be annoying with Amorim getting rid of practically all wingers due to his stupid fecking system, question is who do we target seeing as midfield has to be the main priority area this summer ?
Click to expand...
For what its worth, those players we got rid of, would have still been sold even if Amorim wasn't our head coach manager. I mean Antony, Sancho and Rashford were all pretty much done at our club. The only questionable one was Garnacho but he isn't pulling up any trees either and we made good money on him.

I think plenty of people noticed that left wing was a priority after central midfield considering how Cunha likes to roam about. Good to see club not being dumb to these things anymore. I think it was also part of the reason we tried for Semenyo in Jan.
 
"Amorim" (because really it's the club & Amorim) getting rid of our wingers was only an issue if you think we wouldn't have wanted new wingers to replace Rashford and Garnacho anyway.

Which I currently don't.
 
Hammondo said:
Those wingers were not good enough.
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If "not good enough" is your standard, then a lot of players shouldn't be in our squad (e.g., Ugarte, Dalot etc. etc.)

In my book, having a medicore winger in the squad is better than having no wingers at all. We had our reasons to get rid of each one (too highly paid, too disruptive, too lazy etc. etc.) but I think the biggest reason was that we over committed to Amorim ball and the 3-4-3 and none of these guys had a role to play in that system.

Or said another way, if we had a 4 ATB manager, I don't think we would've gotten rid of all of our LW players.

tl;dr: INEOS fecked up. So far it hasn't costed us because Carrick is adapting just fine and we have a very short, injury free season.
 
Teja said:
If "not good enough" is your standard, then a lot of players shouldn't be in our squad (e.g., Ugarte, Dalot etc. etc.)

In my book, having a medicore winger in the squad is better than having no wingers at all. We had our reasons to get rid of each one (too highly paid, too disruptive, too lazy etc. etc.) but I think the biggest reason was that we over committed to Amorim ball and the 3-4-3 and none of these guys had a role to play in that system.

Or said another way, if we had a 4 ATB manager, I don't think we would've gotten rid of all of our LW players.

tl;dr: INEOS fecked up. So far it hasn't costed us because Carrick is adapting just fine and we have a very short, injury free season.
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They wouldn't be starting.
 
Ali Dia said:
I assume Cunha will go central once Bruno heads off. Call me old fashioned but I'd go with at least one wide player who can give us some width and doesn't always want to drift into the middle
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Cunha centrally will keep running blind alleys and giving ball away.

This summer should be all about midfield and fullbacks. One attacker if Zirkzee goes is enough.
 
Teja said:
If "not good enough" is your standard, then a lot of players shouldn't be in our squad (e.g., Ugarte, Dalot etc. etc.)

In my book, having a medicore winger in the squad is better than having no wingers at all. We had our reasons to get rid of each one (too highly paid, too disruptive, too lazy etc. etc.) but I think the biggest reason was that we over committed to Amorim ball and the 3-4-3 and none of these guys had a role to play in that system.

Or said another way, if we had a 4 ATB manager, I don't think we would've gotten rid of all of our LW players.

tl;dr: INEOS fecked up. So far it hasn't costed us because Carrick is adapting just fine and we have a very short, injury free season.
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Who was a out and out winger though.

Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho all inside forwards on left like Cunha.

And Amad Mbeumo have right side covered.

Infact Dorgu is most winger on left we have.
 
FromTheBench said:
Who was a out and out winger though.

Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho all inside forwards on left like Cunha.

And Amad Mbeumo have right side covered.

Infact Dorgu is most winger on left we have.
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re: Dorgu, I agree, but this wasn't a fact that was known when the season started. When we signed him he was playing RW for Lecce. For us, he never really played LW. Props to Carrick for profiling him as an out and out LW but let's not pretend Wilcox's master plan all along was to play Dorgu LW if we switched to a 4 ATB mid-season.

re: out and out winger, I don't think we necessarily need an out and out winger. Cunha is not a left winger at all, he's more a #10 / second striker and his natural tendency is to be in the middle of the pitch. I think the other three are much more traditional inside forwards who start out wide and cut in as appropriate. To compensate for Cunha's tendencies to drift, Carrick employed a variety of tactics like having Bruno stay left, have Mbeumo / Amad go left whenever Cunha is central etc.

Anyway, the question for me isn't if Cunha is good enough as a LW. The question is mostly around squad planning.

Our initial plan @ #10 when we started the season was that it would be Cunha / Mbeumo as starters backed up by an array of other #10s we have like Amad, Mount, Bruno, Mainoo etc. in a 3-4-3. We were stocked in the #10 position. The real risk was at LWB where we didn't have an alternative when Dorgu was unavailable. There used to be a stat floating about saying we never won a game with Dalot and Mazraoui at WB or somehing like that and our links were to wing backs like Dimarco.

This is what I mean when I say we "over-committed" to the 3-4-3. We got rid of all the natural wingers we had because we expected to be playing 3-4-3 and we had pretty decent cover in most positions there.

Even now it's possible that Cunha does his hamstring on one of these sprints and we're somewhat fecked on the LW. Do you really trust Dorgu to start every game at LW and deliver?
 
Teja said:
re: Dorgu, I agree, but this wasn't a fact that was known when the season started. When we signed him he was playing RW for Lecce. For us, he never really played LW. Props to Carrick for profiling him as an out and out LW but let's not pretend Wilcox's master plan all along was to play Dorgu LW if we switched to a 4 ATB mid-season.

re: out and out winger, I don't think we necessarily need an out and out winger. Cunha is not a left winger at all, he's more a #10 / second striker and his natural tendency is to be in the middle of the pitch. I think the other three are much more traditional inside forwards who start out wide and cut in as appropriate. To compensate for Cunha's tendencies to drift, Carrick employed a variety of tactics like having Bruno stay left, have Mbeumo / Amad go left whenever Cunha is central etc.

Anyway, the question for me isn't if Cunha is good enough as a LW. The question is mostly around squad planning.

Our initial plan @ #10 when we started the season was that it would be Cunha / Mbeumo as starters backed up by an array of other #10s we have like Amad, Mount, Bruno, Mainoo etc. in a 3-4-3. We were stocked in the #10 position. The real risk was at LWB where we didn't have an alternative when Dorgu was unavailable. There used to be a stat floating about saying we never won a game with Dalot and Mazraoui at WB or somehing like that and our links were to wing backs like Dimarco.

This is what I mean when I say we "over-committed" to the 3-4-3. We got rid of all the natural wingers we had because we expected to be playing 3-4-3 and we had pretty decent cover in most positions there.

Even now it's possible that Cunha does his hamstring on one of these sprints and we're somewhat fecked on the LW. Do you really trust Dorgu to start every game at LW and deliver?
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Did you really want to keep Sancho, Rashford, Garnacho and Anthony. Mediocre players who needed to be moved on who add nothing but mediocrity to the team Rashford, Sancho badly needed to be moved on because of their salaries.Even with no wingers now we are playing fantastic football and will more than likely finish third this season.

The club was 100% moving on all them
Wasters and trouble makers.I would think the priority in the summer will. Be two midfielders and a winger.
 
Teja said:
re: Dorgu, I agree, but this wasn't a fact that was known when the season started. When we signed him he was playing RW for Lecce. For us, he never really played LW. Props to Carrick for profiling him as an out and out LW but let's not pretend Wilcox's master plan all along was to play Dorgu LW if we switched to a 4 ATB mid-season.

re: out and out winger, I don't think we necessarily need an out and out winger. Cunha is not a left winger at all, he's more a #10 / second striker and his natural tendency is to be in the middle of the pitch. I think the other three are much more traditional inside forwards who start out wide and cut in as appropriate. To compensate for Cunha's tendencies to drift, Carrick employed a variety of tactics like having Bruno stay left, have Mbeumo / Amad go left whenever Cunha is central etc.

Anyway, the question for me isn't if Cunha is good enough as a LW. The question is mostly around squad planning.

Our initial plan @ #10 when we started the season was that it would be Cunha / Mbeumo as starters backed up by an array of other #10s we have like Amad, Mount, Bruno, Mainoo etc. in a 3-4-3. We were stocked in the #10 position. The real risk was at LWB where we didn't have an alternative when Dorgu was unavailable. There used to be a stat floating about saying we never won a game with Dalot and Mazraoui at WB or somehing like that and our links were to wing backs like Dimarco.

This is what I mean when I say we "over-committed" to the 3-4-3. We got rid of all the natural wingers we had because we expected to be playing 3-4-3 and we had pretty decent cover in most positions there.

Even now it's possible that Cunha does his hamstring on one of these sprints and we're somewhat fecked on the LW. Do you really trust Dorgu to start every game at LW and deliver?
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in a discussion about football moving in cycles, I heard a pundit posit the theory that traditional wingers might soon come back in vogue. Left footers on the left, rather than inside forwards. With a forward as good in the air as Sesko, mightn’t be the worst shout. Would like to see Amad have a go on the left at some point.
 
Teja said:
re: Dorgu, I agree, but this wasn't a fact that was known when the season started. When we signed him he was playing RW for Lecce. For us, he never really played LW. Props to Carrick for profiling him as an out and out LW but let's not pretend Wilcox's master plan all along was to play Dorgu LW if we switched to a 4 ATB mid-season.

re: out and out winger, I don't think we necessarily need an out and out winger. Cunha is not a left winger at all, he's more a #10 / second striker and his natural tendency is to be in the middle of the pitch. I think the other three are much more traditional inside forwards who start out wide and cut in as appropriate. To compensate for Cunha's tendencies to drift, Carrick employed a variety of tactics like having Bruno stay left, have Mbeumo / Amad go left whenever Cunha is central etc.

Anyway, the question for me isn't if Cunha is good enough as a LW. The question is mostly around squad planning.

Our initial plan @ #10 when we started the season was that it would be Cunha / Mbeumo as starters backed up by an array of other #10s we have like Amad, Mount, Bruno, Mainoo etc. in a 3-4-3. We were stocked in the #10 position. The real risk was at LWB where we didn't have an alternative when Dorgu was unavailable. There used to be a stat floating about saying we never won a game with Dalot and Mazraoui at WB or somehing like that and our links were to wing backs like Dimarco.

This is what I mean when I say we "over-committed" to the 3-4-3. We got rid of all the natural wingers we had because we expected to be playing 3-4-3 and we had pretty decent cover in most positions there.

Even now it's possible that Cunha does his hamstring on one of these sprints and we're somewhat fecked on the LW. Do you really trust Dorgu to start every game at LW and deliver?
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I think Dorgu at LW most games would be fine.

Even Mount is a decent option there and surely one of Amad and Mbuemo can play there too.

We can do with a left winger but its not a urgent need for me. Cm and both Fb's more of a concern.
 
The centre of midfield is the area where we can make the biggest improvement, particularly with Cas leaving. Our resources should be focused on that as the first and second priority. Only after that should we be looking at other areas.
 
Globule said:
The centre of midfield is the area where we can make the biggest improvement, particularly with Cas leaving. Our resources should be focused on that as the first and second priority. Only after that should we be looking at other areas.
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If we get UCL we'll easily be able to do both. It's not an either or proposition.

As far as OP's question, I'd probably target Diomande/Barcola/Ndiaye and if we can't get any of those three then get more creative and bargain hunt a bit more. But we absolutely need 1v1 quality and pace for that position.
 
I feel like our transfer strategy every summer is either to penny pinch or sign players we think will get the fans excited rather than players who will plug a hole in our team. We are allergic to signing midfielders, although granted Casemiro's wages are probably a big reason we haven't been able to sign anyone there.
 
Blood Mage said:
I feel like our transfer strategy every summer is either to penny pinch or sign players we think will get the fans excited rather than players who will plug a hole in our team. We are allergic to signing midfielders, although granted Casemiro's wages are probably a big reason we haven't been able to sign anyone there.
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We're not really known for penny pinching though, are we? I'd argue the opposite, we have a reputation for overpaying on pretty much every transfer we do. About the only thing we consistently achieve is failing to 'plug a hole in our team', whether the signings are exciting for the fans or not. There certainly wasn't much fanfare for the likes of Mount, Ugarte, Hojlund, Antony, and co - and we didn't pinch any pennies to bring them here.

What our transfer strategy usually is, is inept. Spending big money on overpriced players that we don't need. Hopefully with our new leadership team in place, we'll focus on the areas we actually need and bring in a top quality CM and a LB before addressing anything else.
 
Any manager worth his salt would have shipped out Sancho, Rashford, Antony and Garnacho.

Replacements were always going to be needed for them, so it makes sense for the club to target new wingers.

There's a lot that needs fixing first though, full backs, centre backs, centre midfield.
 
Anustart89 said:
Which of the wingers Amorim got rid of are you missing from our squad?
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Was the first question that sprang to mind after reading that OP :lol: Having “options” are no good anyway, if they’re shite.

Maybe the OP meant getting rid and not replacing them due to the stupid system or something.
 
Ish said:
Was the first question that sprang to mind after reading that OP :lol: Having “options” are no good anyway, if they’re shite.

Maybe the OP meant getting rid and not replacing them due to the stupid system or something.
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Well that’s a whole other thing. They can be bought now. Problem now is that we need four new full backs IMO.
 
I wonder whether Bazoumana Touré could do the trick. His crossing is in the 96 percentile and his pace is terrific. He makes prime Rashford look slow.
 
Iliman Ndiaye from Everton would be my pick. His favorite position is LW but also perform excellent at RW this season when LW was occupied by Grealish. He is not only explosive but very skillful at tight space and create chances facing low block. This character screams for top club recruitment. Not to mention he is proven EPL player so it's more a safer bet of money instead of those
Bundesliga / La liga / Serie A scams.
 
Anustart89 said:
Well that’s a whole other thing. They can be bought now. Problem now is that we need four new full backs IMO.
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Yeah, plus an entire midfield and possibly a backup striker :nervous:

At least we will have some money coming in from sales (fingers crossed) of Hojlund and Rashford, plus the wages of Sancho and Casemiro off the books etc.
 
afatzp said:
Iliman Ndiaye from Everton would be my pick. His favorite position is LW but also perform excellent at RW this season when LW was occupied by Grealish. He is not only explosive but very skillful at tight space and create chances facing low block. This character screams for top club recruitment. Not to mention he is proven EPL player so it's more a safer bet of money instead of those
Bundesliga / La liga / Serie A scams.
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Not for me. He seems to blow very hot and cold and he strikes me as one of those players that will always do his best work as a big fish in a small pond, much like a Grealish.
 
Ish said:
Yeah, plus an entire midfield and possibly a backup striker :nervous:

At least we will have some money coming in from sales (fingers crossed) of Hojlund and Rashford, plus the wages of Sancho and Casemiro off the books etc.
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Backup striker is probably the last position I would go for out of those given we have adequate cover in Mbeumo and Cunha should we add top class wingers to the side.

I would say two starting CMs would be the priority, then a left winger and a right back (if we think Dorgu can play at left back, otherwise I’d prioritise left back first). Then after that comes a backup midfielder if Ugarte goes and a backup striker.

Sigh..
 
sullydnl said:
"Amorim" (because really it's the club & Amorim) getting rid of our wingers was only an issue if you think we wouldn't have wanted new wingers to replace Rashford and Garnacho anyway.

Which I currently don't.
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By the same reasoning we should’ve just got rid of all our midfielders too.
 
acnumber9 said:
By the same reasoning we should’ve just got rid of all our midfielders too.
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I'll add "and as long as it doesn't cost you in the short term".

And I don't think playing Cunha at LW is any significant downgrade on what Rashford and Garnacho were offering immediately prior to their exits.
 
Cunha is better than Rashford and Garnacho, but I think they gave us much more balance just like Dorgu does. Defenders hate players that run in behind, which Cunha does less frequent.

Garnacho and Dorgu stretch play and get into good positions but most often lacked the quality to exploit, apart from some moments of good form.
 
We do need a winger because we need to do better against low block.

a LW, 2 CMs and a RB I think are the needed upgrades.
 
Anustart89 said:
Backup striker is probably the last position I would go for out of those given we have adequate cover in Mbeumo and Cunha should we add top class wingers to the side.

I would say two starting CMs would be the priority, then a left winger and a right back (if we think Dorgu can play at left back, otherwise I’d prioritise left back first). Then after that comes a backup midfielder if Ugarte goes and a backup striker.

Sigh..
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Yeah agreed with those. Apparently Welbeck is a free agent at the end of the season - I was thinking a cheap short term punt for that role, but agreed, we have cover there.
 
devilish said:
I wonder whether Bazoumana Touré could do the trick. His crossing is in the 96 percentile and his pace is terrific. He makes prime Rashford look slow.
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That's the sort of player I'd like us to target. Absolutely searing pace and wouldn't cost as much as some of the more popular choices, but serious potential.
 
Left wing is definitely up there. Having a player like Amad for the left wing would be a game changer for the squad so you can attack from both flanks. Absolutely needed.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
in a discussion about football moving in cycles, I heard a pundit posit the theory that traditional wingers might soon come back in vogue. Left footers on the left, rather than inside forwards. With a forward as good in the air as Sesko, mightn’t be the worst shout. Would like to see Amad have a go on the left at some point.
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Yep I'm also up for trying Amad on the left and dropping Cunha in one of these games.

bosnian_red said:
Left wing is definitely up there. Having a player like Amad for the left wing would be a game changer for the squad so you can attack from both flanks. Absolutely needed.
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Do you think with an attacking LB the LW issues would mostly be solved? Dalot / Maz can make up the 3 ATB along with the 2 CBs. If the LB has an engine and can bomb forward, then even if Cunha cuts inside it isn't a problem.
 
honirelandboy said:
Did you really want to keep Sancho, Rashford, Garnacho and Anthony. Mediocre players who needed to be moved on who add nothing but mediocrity to the team Rashford, Sancho badly needed to be moved on because of their salaries.Even with no wingers now we are playing fantastic football and will more than likely finish third this season.

The club was 100% moving on all them
Wasters and trouble makers.I would think the priority in the summer will. Be two midfielders and a winger.
Click to expand...

I would've kept one of Garnacho or Rashford. Ideally a motivated Rashford.
 
Teja said:
If "not good enough" is your standard, then a lot of players shouldn't be in our squad (e.g., Ugarte, Dalot etc. etc.)

In my book, having a medicore winger in the squad is better than having no wingers at all. We had our reasons to get rid of each one (too highly paid, too disruptive, too lazy etc. etc.) but I think the biggest reason was that we over committed to Amorim ball and the 3-4-3 and none of these guys had a role to play in that system.

Or said another way, if we had a 4 ATB manager, I don't think we would've gotten rid of all of our LW players.

tl;dr: INEOS fecked up. So far it hasn't costed us because Carrick is adapting just fine and we have a very short, injury free season.
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Yes, correct, we should get rid of those players too.

Whoever was behind it, getting rid of Garnacho, Rashford, Sancho and Antony was a great choice. We’re better off without them (literally - look at the league table), and selling them on frees up money to bring in new, better players.
 
This is a divisive one but I'd have kept Garnacho around over taking the 40m. Our LW options are limited and he offers more width than Cunha. We could have easily sold him for more than 40m 12 months later had he not had a very public falling out with Amorim.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
This is a divisive one but I'd have kept Garnacho around over taking the 40m. Our LW options are limited and he offers more width than Cunha. We could have easily sold him for more than 40m 12 months later had he not had a very public falling out with Amorim.
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Garnacho was better when played on the right though. He was mostly poor for his last two seasons here, with the only two runs of decent form being when first ETH then later Amorim played him on the right. When playing on the left, especially when starting, he was shit the large majority of the time.

Garnacho was a decent option to be a squad player coming off the bench. If he'd been willing to fill that role I would have happily kept him for now. But he clearly wasn't happy to fill that role and was causing problems, so he absolutely had to go.
 
MadDogg said:
Garnacho was better when played on the right though. He was mostly poor for his last two seasons here, with the only two runs of decent form being when first ETH then later Amorim played him on the right. When playing on the left, especially when starting, he was shit the large majority of the time.

Garnacho was a decent option to be a squad player coming off the bench. If he'd been willing to fill that role I would have happily kept him for now. But he clearly wasn't happy to fill that role and was causing problems, so he absolutely had to go.
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Even when he was in poor form, he was still carrying the ball forward and holding the width, the latter of which Cunha cannot do.

If I remember correctly, the large bulk of the problems he caused was after Amorim benched him in the cup final for Mount, which was understandable as I (as a fan) was also pissed off with that decision. As far as I'm aware, he's not causing problems at Chelsea despite getting less gametime than he got at United, likely because there isn't a dickhead in the dugout who gladly throws his players under the bus to protect his own ego.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Even when he was in poor form, he was still carrying the ball forward and holding the width, the latter of which Cunha cannot do.

It felt like he was only causing problems when Amorim benched him in the cup final for Mount, which was understandable as I (as a fan) was also pissed off with that decision. As far as I'm aware, he's not causing problems at Chelsea despite getting less gametime than he got at United, likely because there isn't a dickhead in the dugout who gladly throws his players under the bus to protect his own ego.
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Garnacho was a teenager thinking he had made it and acting like a big man. He was awful most games and was detrimental to our attacking play, and he was just generally an asshole, and his endless whining was so tedious to watch. He wasn't some star player, he was a mediocre player with good movement off the ball and directness. Just cheated on his girlfriend too with whom he got a kid with not long ago. Incredibly dislikeable person, and glad he's gone. Chelsea apparently wants to sell him this summer too, so it says something.
 
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