That's the way in almost all the Muslim countries. The problem is that due to politics the extremists have a louder voice and hence more clout.
Gets right on what account? Terrorism?
Interesting that it’s not limited to Morocco. They have great surf down there, seems very safe to visit!
Where did I justify it? You were the one who said you'd have to be an idiot to think Islam in Europe wasn't a concern. I'm just using your admittedly weak and flawed logic to highlight how redundant it was.
Sorry, I was prompted by the back and forth between @Dante and @calodo2003, but also just thinking out loud a bit. It's been on my mind lately, especially after just reading a history of the Crusades, which while excellent suffers a bit from the author's painful efforts to try to distinguish between the different spheres of motivation which prompted those conflicts - were they primarily motivated by their faith, or by politics, or by economic incentive, etc. It seemed to me to be missing the point that this effort to categorise along these lines might not have made much if any sense to those involved. It also - unfairly IMO - implies a cynicism on the part of those involved whenever the supposedly purely spiritual mission became tainted by the prospect of material gain. Whereas I would suggest that such material gain would have been understood as forming a crucial element of God's plan and reward for those fighting on his behalf. I believe much the same could be said of those jihadi movements who defy the "religious/political" categorization.
Yeah, France did support the overthrow of two dictators. Yes, they also did a pretty shitty job of it. As for 'no right' I don't recognize the right of dictators to play the 'no meddling in our domestic politics' card I'm afraid.
Why not? It's non of france's business. They have destroyed one of the most developed countries in Africa. They didn't just support the overthrow. They destroyed the country for generations to come.
1990s to now: As for 'no right' I don't recognize the right of dictators to play the 'no meddling in our domestic politics' card I'm afraid.
This is the problem. France is demanding that this boycott should be stopped. That is pouring fuel into the fire. From a tragic and horrific incident of the murder of a poor teacher this has now becoming a different issue. Marcon has fallen into Erdogan's trap.
Hypocrites can't help themselves
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Ah get fecked with that shite, so it's imperialist now to not want to leave millions of people living under oppression, torture and arbitrary murder? Because gosh yeah I'm sure they'd be sitting there feeling totally patronized by our western sense of superiority if we acted to stop some cnut from pulling out their fingernails in a dungeon and raping their female relatives.
It is worse now. The Intervention made it worse. At least under Gaddafi if you do not deal in politics you are left alone and have a reasonably good life. Basic necessities were free including staple food. Education was free. There was religious freedom too. Now it is a hell hole for everyone. It has nothing to do with oppression. It has all to do with oil.
I don't want to waddle into this thread, but I can't believe that this needs to be said
. I mean how thick are you to think that any Western countries interfere into ME and Africa other than natural resourcesIt's not me who is saying this. It's the op I replied who is saying that it's to free them from oppression.I don't want to waddle into this thread, but I can't believe that this needs to be said
I know, I'm agreeing with you. I just think it's ridiculous that the op even consider that line of thought that you need to mentioned it
I was reading the way the religion is preached means it’s tightly controlled by the government to reduce the risk of extremist material? I remember the murders, awful. I haven’t watched a beheading video since I was younger, grim and best avoided!
Why do you bring that up? Crimes happen to tourists as well.
Tbf it’s not just any crime is it? It’s brutal murder of innocent people in the name of Islam.
Oh, come on... it was rather bad luck (wrong place at the wrong time) than anything else. It is a random attack (as random as it gets) by some lunatics who claim following some kind of Islamic preachings. They were just some poor souls (okay, ISIS wannabes that could not get to Syria) with nothing else to live for in their lives. One week later, and they might have gotten bored and called the whole thing off.
I didn’t defend how the French intervened, nor would I defend how the UK or US have done so in various countries. What I do defend however is the right to intervene against dictatorships and refuse to accept some blanket right against domestic interference for rulers that oppress their subjects. Obviously to date interventions have been done for self interest not for humanitarian reasons, and that’s been true going right back to the world wars.
It was pre meditated murder where they actively went to look for victims. I’m not going to reduce the severity of murder in the name of Islam to some nutty poor souls that had nothing to live for.
Yes, murder.
Because I guess he was talking about terroism in morocco and I found the incident related to the matter. in all 24 people were arrrested on this incident. It wasn't to paint to Morocco as some sort of terrorist spawning ground.
I guess it's just incredibly difficult to keep track of people like this even when they're known about. The resources to track the many 1000s of people on some sort of terrorist list 24 hours a day just isn't available I suppose.
Sorry, the thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent. Do you mean Abdullakh Anzorov? To be fair, French intelligence didn't cut off anybody's head over some drawings they found offensive.
Is that his name? The chechen who did this. I'm saying people talk like your average Muslim can at any time "lose it" but with almost all these cases the perpetrator has strong links to terrorist orgs and past crimes.
I had to go looking for it but I think that's his name, yeah. I don't think your garden variety muslim would do this sort of thing. Indeed, most people find murder abhorrent no matter if they are religious or not.
)The nerve you have. You know fully well this forum is full of people who you say should be profiled, with a stupid smiley.This isn’t the Paris attack, but...is profiling right? Yes is what I think (obviously!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54695580
I know very few people off this forum to be honest. I often think this internet crap is exactly that and it would be great to meet up with people.
In the early 50s and 60s when the Arab countries became independent countries, some of them were artificially created by The British. Eg. Saudi Arabai, Kuwait, Iraq and the Gulf countries, Syria etc. Some of them like Iraq and Syria were taken over by coups and dictators took over. In Egypt they had a monarchy who was so corrupt they over threw him and a military junta was formed. Saudi Arabia was not Saudi Arabia earlier. It was called Hijaz. When Ibn Saud took the country by force, he made a pact with Mohamed Ibn Wahab a religious zealot. Ibn Saud to rule politically while Mohamed Ibn Wahab to rule religiously. This was the pact that formed Saudi Arabia.
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Egypt has been independent since the 20s, Iraq and Saudi Arabia since the 30s (although Saudi Arabia was independent under divided kingdoms since the 20s and even before), Syria and Lebanon since the 40s. British influence was maintained in Egypt and Iraq by treaties backed by military force and local elite alliances, but was effectively ended in 1952 and 1958 respectively when the monarchies were both overthrown. Syria and Lebanon were the responsibility of France until they were granted independence after WW2. It is true, however, that the UAE (formerly known as the Trucial States), Bahrain, Qatar and Kuwait only achieved real independence from the British in the 60s and early 70s.
Saudi Arabia was not called the Hijaz. The Hijaz is the region along the middle of the Red Sea coastal plain of the Arabian Peninsula and its hinterland, including the holy cities. The Saudis’ origin is in Najd, the north-central desert region of the peninsula where the first Saudi state rose in the 18th century, during the time when the Saudi-Wahhabi arrangement was made. That state conquered the Hijaz in the early 19th century, but was ended a few years later by an Egyptian force ostensibly acting on behalf of the Ottoman Empire. A second Saudi state rose in the middle of the 19th century in Najd, but never took the Hijaz, and was defeated by its Rashidi rivals. The third Saudi state - which survives to this day - rose at the start of the 20th century, and only conquered and annexed the Hijaz in 1924/25. It then united Najd with the Hijaz and a bunch of other regions and declared the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the early 30s. The Hijaz had previously been an autonomous Ottoman province run by the Hashimites which had declared independence and proclaimed itself a kingdom during WW1.
Nasser never fought a war directly against the Saudis. At times he opposed them and at other times he was forced to ally to them. The closest they came to actual conflict was when he sent Egyptian troops to North Yemen in 1962 to support the Republican coup there, while the Saudis supported the overthrown monarchy.
Sorry, what children are you talking about here? Saudis? Or Afghans?
There’s no real evidence the Americans directly supported bin Laden, although there is some debate over whether he was an indirect recipient of funds before the founding of al Qaeda. Certainly American dollars supported plenty of other unsavory characters during the war, and the American effort definitely helped create the conditions in which al Qaeda could form and operate.
It may seem like this now, but it was Shi’i groups who actually pioneered the use of suicide bombings and massive car and truck bombings in the Middle East in the 80s and early 90s. Closer to the actual topic of this thread, it was Khomeini who prompted the first such blasphemy controversy in the West.
