Sweet Square
Full Member
Always worth posting
I'm from Singapore, Malaysia's neighbour. This man was re-elected as PM not too long ago in a political system that relies heavily on race-based (and by extention religion) politics, so saying he doesn't have much influence over Muslims is baseless and even dangerous for non-Muslims living in the region.Look troll, someone has already pointed out this guy is a lunatic and is best ignored. I really doubt he has much influence over Muslims.
You could be the nicest guy on this planet but you ARE responsible for anything and everything that happens in the name of your shared belief system.I am a muslim, I'm not responsible for somebody else doing something who happens to be of the same religion as me. I don't share his views.
No, it actually isn't always worth posting.Always worth posting
The heck???You could be the nicest guy on this planet but you ARE responsible for anything and everything that happens in the name of your shared belief system.
Drop the imaginary friends and all the problems that your religion — and every other religion — have created decrease significantly. Isn‘t that reason enough? Don‘t you think you could step away from your irrational belief if it could save your neighbour/colleague/friend from being beheaded by a lunatic following the same belief system? Why not? Because in reality you don‘t give a shit. You don‘t want to leave your comfort zone, you don‘t want to disappoint your family and friends of the same belief. You choose to be part of a big lie over evolving.
As long as you hold on to it, of course you‘re also responsible for what is caused by it.
You have it in your own hands yet refuse to accept responsibility and instead continue to deny being part of the problem.
He makes a lot of sense in his post. The point about choosing to be a part of a big lie over evolving is spot on.The heck???
This is not just muslims tbf. I lived in US for 15 years and I'm a Christian. I used to rage against anti abortion laws and what I thought was unnecessary poking into the educational texts by Christian majority here but I have done nothing against it apart from raging against online.You could be the nicest guy on this planet but you ARE responsible for anything and everything that happens in the name of your shared belief system.
Drop the imaginary friends and all the problems that your religion — and every other religion — have created decrease significantly. Isn‘t that reason enough? Don‘t you think you could step away from your irrational belief if it could save your neighbour/colleague/friend from being beheaded by a lunatic following the same belief system? Why not? Because in reality you don‘t give a shit. You don‘t want to leave your comfort zone, you don‘t want to disappoint your family and friends of the same belief. You choose to be part of a big lie over evolving.
As long as you hold on to it, of course you‘re also responsible for what is caused by it.
You have it in your own hands yet refuse to accept responsibility and instead continue to deny being part of the problem.
Complete nonsense.You could be the nicest guy on this planet but you ARE responsible for anything and everything that happens in the name of your shared belief system.
Drop the imaginary friends and all the problems that your religion — and every other religion — have created decrease significantly. Isn‘t that reason enough? Don‘t you think you could step away from your irrational belief if it could save your neighbour/colleague/friend from being beheaded by a lunatic following the same belief system? Why not? Because in reality you don‘t give a shit. You don‘t want to leave your comfort zone, you don‘t want to disappoint your family and friends of the same belief. You choose to be part of a big lie over evolving.
As long as you hold on to it, of course you‘re also responsible for what is caused by it.
You have it in your own hands yet refuse to accept responsibility and instead continue to deny being part of the problem.
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None of those entities to which you referred are actively issuing fatwas to murder non-believers who create satire to try to say something, none of those entities are brainwashing the more susceptible adherents to their policies to carry out acts of violence in their names. Some of those points you brought up aren’t even choices by people (who chooses to be human or who chooses where they are born?).Complete nonsense.
Tomorrow is some Manchester United fans carry out murders, will you accept responsibility and stop supporting the club?
If certain groups in your country carry out vile acts, will you leave your country?
If the human race continues being destructive, will you forgo your humanness?
Maybe all the Brits here should have to pay for the Empires sins too.
Evangelical Christians are perhaps the biggest reason we have Trump and his cronies, perhaps resulting in the death of many more than the murders on Paris.None of those entities to which you referred are actively issuing fatwas to murder non-believers who create satire to try to say something, none of those entities are brainwashing the more susceptible adherents to their policies to carry out acts of violence in their names. Some of those points you brought up aren’t even choices by people (who chooses to be human or who chooses where they are born?).
It’s somewhat unfathomable that the religion of islam apparently isn’t at fault here. Is the fundamentalist issue just so far gone that there’s nothing that islam itself can do? Many in hereal are saying that only a minute portion of muslims in the world are truly this evil; well, to many of us, that’s a good thing as those people can be more easily drummed out of islam & such virulent aspects of the religion could more easily be purged from the religion itself. Is there no internal force of will within the religion to make these changes, is there no political will to try to divorce such horrors from ever being associated with islam ever again?
Or is it easier to circle the wagons, lament when outside criticism is focused on islam due to barbaric acts perpetrated in its name, ride out the storm, & take the easy way out? Many in here have spoken about the decentralization if the religion & the fact that it doesn’t have the hierarchal structure like other major religions, perhaps it’s time to develop one to help curb radicalization? I don’t know, but it just seems like a lot of the answers given are simply the path of least resistance.
Now, if that were the case, I would say you are right.....That someone commits violence cannot be projected on to the Muslims because of this. This is not like the Khomeini fatwa on Rushdee. No one issued any fatwa or anything of that sort on the poor teacher. He was murdered because a person thought he should murder him.
You choose where you live. And the US and UK (especially) have plenty of blood on their hands over the decadesNone of those entities to which you referred are actively issuing fatwas to murder non-believers who create satire to try to say something, none of those entities are brainwashing the more susceptible adherents to their policies to carry out acts of violence in their names. Some of those points you brought up aren’t even choices by people (who chooses to be human or who chooses where they are born?).
It’s somewhat unfathomable that the religion of islam apparently isn’t at fault here. Is the fundamentalist issue just so far gone that there’s nothing that islam itself can do? Many in hereal are saying that only a minute portion of muslims in the world are truly this evil; well, to many of us, that’s a good thing as those people can be more easily drummed out of islam & such virulent aspects of the religion could more easily be purged from the religion itself. Is there no internal force of will within the religion to make these changes, is there no political will to try to divorce such horrors from ever being associated with islam ever again?
Or is it easier to circle the wagons, lament when outside criticism is focused on islam due to barbaric acts perpetrated in its name, ride out the storm, & take the easy way out? Many in here have spoken about the decentralization if the religion & the fact that it doesn’t have the hierarchal structure like other major religions, perhaps it’s time to develop one to help curb radicalization? I don’t know, but it just seems like a lot of the answers given are simply the path of least resistance.
I abhor them with the same passion as I abhor islamic extremists. The uneducated batshit thumpers are largely to blame for Plump’s four years in office & we will unfortunately feel the deleterious effects on this country for decades to come.Evangelical Christians are perhaps the biggest reason we have Trump and his cronies, perhaps resulting in the death of many more than the murders on Paris.
So Islam isn't an individual but the US and UK areYou choose where you live. And the US and UK (especially) have plenty of blood on their hands over the decades
Islam isn't an individual. Blame Islamic leaders if you wish, but demonizing a random Muslim IT guy is rather pathetic behavior.
Not sure to what you are referring here? Was the muslim who issued the fatwa simply a random IT guy? By many accounts I have read, he was also a preacher.You choose where you live. And the US and UK (especially) have plenty of blood on their hands over the decades
Islam isn't an individual. Blame Islamic leaders if you wish, but demonizing a random Muslim IT guy is rather pathetic behavior.
I was thinking more along the lines of the suicide bomber types. Evangelicals, while nutjobs in their own right, don't want to die. I think the idea that dying in name of your God and killing as many non believers as possible is a rather alarm kind of extremism which nullifies the concern one can have over the effects of dropping a nuke somewhere.You mean like evangelical christians? They already have the keys to them...
Come on... you are angry and biased as...This is a convenient excuse that I’ve heard multiple times in the past. How about those adherents to the religion, like yourself, getting up in arms & demanding change? It’s far easier to somewhat circle the wagons in faux outrage claiming that there is rampant phobia against a certain religion from others; it’s another to actually feel ashamed that crimes are being committed in the name of said religion yet basically admit that nothing can be done. Smacks of a cop out. Religions are by their very nature divisive & it’s telling that you would feel so put upon when the root cause of these current atrocities is islam itself, there’s really no way around that fact. Don’t get twisted here, I am equally as contemptuous of all religion, this is not a slam solely on islam.
So, basically, you appear to be fine with any fatwa issued by islam towards any non-believer regardless the outcome? That it should be the country in which the atrocity is committed that should be policing itself & islam should not be held for any responsibility of the act? Just throw up your hands & claim that there is nothing you or your religion could do about it? With this attitude, you can’t see that there could be...
I told my parents i was an atheist in my mid teens.You could be the nicest guy on this planet but you ARE responsible for anything and everything that happens in the name of your shared belief system.
Drop the imaginary friends and all the problems that your religion — and every other religion — have created decrease significantly. Isn‘t that reason enough? Don‘t you think you could step away from your irrational belief if it could save your neighbour/colleague/friend from being beheaded by a lunatic following the same belief system? Why not? Because in reality you don‘t give a shit. You don‘t want to leave your comfort zone, you don‘t want to disappoint your family and friends of the same belief. You choose to be part of a big lie over evolving.
As long as you hold on to it, of course you‘re also responsible for what is caused by it.
You have it in your own hands yet refuse to accept responsibility and instead continue to deny being part of the problem.
I view all religious extremism through the same prism.Come on... you are angry and biased as...
There are no broad issues with Islam in Europe. However, there are certain pockets within European Islam that are problematic. But we are not talking about widespread issues here... otherwise we would have a beheading every month.
As stupid as that would be i think it would be a fitting end for a species like the Human race that are already murdering people over something as silly and trivial as a cartoon.I would take Ergodan anyday over this lunatic pakistani imam who is urging Pakistan to nuke france over this.
Imagine if the death of all life on earth was provoked by an offensive cartoon
Neither is?So Islam isn't an individual but the US and UK are
The guy on redcafe you're vilifying may well be.Not sure to what you are referring here? Was the muslim who issued the fatwa simply a random IT guy? By many accounts I have read, he was also a preacher.
Wow. ‘Vilifying?’ ‘Demonizing?’ I don’t think I was being disparaging to you at all. I was pointing out the facts as we know them regarding the fatwa being issued & how some don’t have choices in their lives vs. a religion one is, that being a specific choice that one makes.The guy on redcafe you're vilifying may well be.
That part has nothing to do with religion France and Turkey are in open conflict due to events in Syria/Libya and the fact that France sided with Greece in the current tensions between Turkey and Greece.Gotcha.. still confused why Erdogan waded in and why is no one going after him for fueling this fire
Ridiculous comparisons that aren‘t worthy of a detailed reply.Complete nonsense.
Tomorrow is some Manchester United fans carry out murders, will you accept responsibility and stop supporting the club?
If certain groups in your country carry out vile acts, will you leave your country?
If the human race continues being destructive, will you forgo your humanness?
Maybe all the Brits here should have to pay for the Empires sins too.
Then don't given nobody expects it to be a good one.Ridiculous comparisons that aren‘t worthy of a detailed reply.
I don't know but definitely not @Wolverine from redcafe who I was referring to. Not myself.Wow. ‘Vilifying?’ ‘Demonizing?’ I don’t think I was being disparaging to you at all. I was pointing out the facts as we know them regarding the fatwa being issued & how some don’t have choices in their lives vs. a religion one is, that being a specific choice that one makes.
Apologies if you took my statements as being directed specifically at you, I’m simply stating my incredulity at your statement.
But, like some in here have stated, there are no true islamic leaders akin to the hierarchical structures in other worldwide religion. To whom should I focus as a islamic leader of international renown to affect the changes needed to purge extremism out of the religion?
I can only work with what you share with us:I told my parents i was an atheist in my mid teens.
Nice little exposition about my life though, person on internet
Take it personal or don‘t, I‘m addressing any and every religious person. You ARE responsible. For all the shit that happens because of your story. Too many times have I heard excuses and pseudo-reasoning for crimes committed in the name of whoever or whatever you/they claim to be omnipotent. Fiction remains fiction no matter how much you sugarcoat or modify it.Its not my responsibility as a Muslim to stop a murder or prevent somebody else becoming radicalised despite how many times you keep saying it is it will not become less ridiculous.
Its not about what has already happened, its to prevent what will happen in the future. If you stop supporting Manchester United and it prevents some innocent soul from being beheaded then you should absolutely stop supporting Manchester united. Especially if you're always quoting something about manchester united fans valuing life overy everything and being the most peacefullest group of fans in the world.Complete nonsense.
Tomorrow is some Manchester United fans carry out murders, will you accept responsibility and stop supporting the club?
If certain groups in your country carry out vile acts, will you leave your country?
If the human race continues being destructive, will you forgo your humanness?
Maybe all the Brits here should have to pay for the Empires sins too.
His stopping practicing his faith will do feck all for stopping acts of violence. Just like a Brit leaving his country wouldn't have stopped all the atrocities committed on colonies.Its not about what has already happened, its to prevent what will happen in the future. If you stop supporting Manchester United and it prevents some innocent soul from being beheaded then you should absolutely stop supporting Manchester united. Especially if you're always quoting something about manchester united fans valuing life overy everything and being the most peacefullest group of fans in the world.
Could people stop making analogies to football. Football is about kicking a ball. Religion is amongst other things, a belief system on how you should live your life.Its not about what has already happened, its to prevent what will happen in the future. If you stop supporting Manchester United and it prevents some innocent soul from being beheaded then you should absolutely stop supporting Manchester united. Especially if you're always quoting something about manchester united fans valuing life overy everything and being the most peacefullest group of fans in the world.
No, it actually isn't always worth posting.
France is not the US, the perpetrators of these atrocities are not even Middle Eastern (one was Chechen and the other Tunisian) and the motivation was a bunch of satirical cartoons not reprisals for foreign wars.
There does exist a line where basically you're simultaneously oversimplifying, victim blaming and excusing it for some injustices done by others to others. You're well past that line.
I see.. I'm still surprised that what was an internal French law and authority issue is now dressed up as a global struggle against oppression of Muslims in France by a foreign leader directly at odds with France and that is being trotted out as the truth by many.That part has nothing to do with religion France and Turkey are in open conflict due to events in Syria/Libya and the fact that France sided with Greece in the current tensions between Turkey and Greece.
No doubt our military activity hasn't helped but this stinks of don't blame islam, it's everybody else fault. Islamic countries need to take ownership of this problem and solve it, all they seem to have done so far is stoked up more violence over some meaningless cartoons.Always worth posting