Team Pre-Season Meal

FreddieTheReddie

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There's no 'science' when it comes to a good steak, do you know why? It's all subjective. You'd swear Greenwood ordered his steak for you the way you're going on. Relax.
Yes, all subjective. Maybe McDonalds is actually good food and those bocuse d'or winner no nothing about the profession.
 

VanDeBank

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My original statement was pretty narrow, that footballers have superior fitness and athleticism. That if you put the 6ft9, 250lb LeBron James on a field he wouldn't see which way Ronaldo went.

Footballers run further.
They sprint more.
They're more agile.

That makes them fitter and more athletic to me.

If you wanted the stronger or more powerful, then of course it wouldn't be them.
:lol:

We all know strength and power have nothing to do with athleticism:

"the physical qualities that are characteristic of athletes, such as strength, fitness, and agility."

I'd actually go as far as to as say many of the American sports require more athleticism than football. You can compensate for shitty genetics by being brilliant on the ball. Look at Sneijder. Being able to take a corner kick more accurately with your wrong foot than the rest of the squad isn't going to compensate for your lack of height, pace or strength in American football.

I really couldn’t give a shit about American “athletes”, whether they’re goats or sheep. I can tell you for a fact that sports scientists unanimously agree that diet and nutrition can be optimised for peak performance. And the meals in the OP are far from fecking optimal.

Obviously, an occasional cheat meal is not a problem. Neither you nor I know if this was the case here.
You'd seem fairly uninformed for someone that claims to know "for a fact what sports scientist unanimously agree on" to think it's a 50-50 as to whether or not they eat fried food and creamy, chocolaty desserts on a daily basis.

You're aware there was no "peak performance" necessary in pre season? This isn't their in season pre game meal.
 

Pogue Mahone

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You'd seem fairly uninformed for someone that claims to know "for a fact what sports scientist unanimously agree on" to think it's a 50-50 as to whether or not they eat fried food and creamy, chocolaty desserts on a daily basis.

You're aware there was no "peak performance" necessary in pre season? This isn't their in season pre game meal.
Did that sentence make sense to you when you typed it?
 

RUCK4444

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God you know we need some more football when we’re arguing about footballers food…

Personally I’d have pulled up a chair opposite Ronaldo and eaten two fat portions of that apple pie and custard whilst staring lustfully into his eyes without blinking once. That’s how a true Ronaldo fanboy makes his introduction.
 

justsomebloke

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:lol:

We all know strength and power have nothing to do with athleticism:

"the physical qualities that are characteristic of athletes, such as strength, fitness, and agility."

I'd actually go as far as to as say many of the American sports require more athleticism than football. You can compensate for shitty genetics by being brilliant on the ball. Look at Sneijder. Being able to take a corner kick more accurately with your wrong foot than the rest of the squad isn't going to compensate for your lack of height, pace or strength in American football.



You'd seem fairly uninformed for someone that claims to know "for a fact what sports scientist unanimously agree on" to think it's a 50-50 as to whether or not they eat fried food and creamy, chocolaty desserts on a daily basis.

You're aware there was no "peak performance" necessary in pre season? This isn't their in season pre game meal.
There's a difference between athleticism and height/pace/strength though. Firstly because it refers to a wider set of traits (such as agility), but also because it is at least to some extent relative to your build and genetics. You can have great athleticism even if you're 5' 9. As you say though, you'd be useless in American football. But that's because it's a sport where size and strength are basic preconditions, and not just one among several possible attributes you can draw on for success. I'd guess you could say the same for basketball, if not to the same degree. In Ice Hockey size and strength are huge advantages, but there are lots of examples of players who have succeeded at the highest level without much of either. And baseball is not a word that sits well in the same sentence as "athleticism", no? :)
 

Chip

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That really should have ended the discussion about which athletes are fitter.
Does that mean that I'm fitter than a footballer if I jog 15 kilometers in 90 minutes on my run tonight? Because footballers don't run 15 kilometers in 90 minutes plus added time - and they even get a 15 minute break.

It's a pointless comparison and an ignorant conclusion.

No, I'm not a big NBA fan, and no I'm not American.
 

MDFC Manager

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Does that mean that I'm fitter than a footballer if I jog 15 kilometers in 90 minutes on my run tonight?
If you can pull that off twice a week, with several additional kilometres of warm-up and cooldown runs, plus several kilometres of running thru rest of the week, besides several hours of training, weight training, etc, then yes, you can certainly can yourself fitter than a footballer.
 

Pogue Mahone

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If you can pull that off twice a week, with several additional kilometres of warm-up and cooldown runs, plus several kilometres of running thru rest of the week, besides several hours of training, weight training, etc, then yes, you can certainly can yourself fitter than a footballer.
You also have to factor in sprints. Which makes that 15k “jog” a bit closer to HIIT. Seriously hard work anyway.
 

VanDeBank

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Did that sentence make sense to you when you typed it?
You're critizicing them for eating what they did, which you followed up with:
"Obviously, an occasional cheat meal is not a problem. Neither you nor I know if this was the case here."

You don't know if a meal with fried stuff and chocolate desserts is a cheat meal. Really? :lol:
Do you think our chefs are Ooma Loompas?

There's a difference between athleticism and height/pace/strength though. Firstly because it refers to a wider set of traits (such as agility), but also because it is at least to some extent relative to your build and genetics. You can have great athleticism even if you're 5' 9. As you say though, you'd be useless in American football. But that's because it's a sport where size and strength are basic preconditions, and not just one among several possible attributes you can draw on for success. I'd guess you could say the same for basketball, if not to the same degree. In Ice Hockey size and strength are huge advantages, but there are lots of examples of players who have succeeded at the highest level without much of either. And baseball is not a word that sits well in the same sentence as "athleticism", no? :)
Yes athleticism encompasses a wide set of traits including pace, strength and agility. Putting more emphasis on one over the other to conclude which is more athletic is just arbitrary. NBA players aren't less athletic because @11101 thinks being able to run longer or being able more agile is more important than being powerful or strong. I'm not even sure if footballers are more agile than NBA players. Based on what?

Completely disagree with athleticism being relative to one's genetics. It's not like we look at Dan James and see him drop at the slightest contact and think: "yeah his balance and coordination isn't bad relative to his genetics". On the flip side, we don't look at his insane sprint and go: "yeah, he was born really explosive (which he was), so it doesn't count as much towards him being athletic". Athleticism is highly genetic. Dan James was born fast and elite athletes are genetic freaks. Genetics play a huge role in explosiveness, VO2 max, pain tolerance, etc.
 

Pogue Mahone

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You're critizicing them for eating what they did, which you followed up with:
"Obviously, an occasional cheat meal is not a problem. Neither you nor I know if this was the case here."

You don't know if a meal with fried stuff and chocolate desserts is a cheat meal. Really? :lol:
Do you think our chefs are Ooma Loompas?
Now read what I said again. This time pay attention to the word “occasional”.
 

11101

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Which you continue to reduce to one definition whilst dismissing the rest of what fitness pertains to. That invalidates a large portion of your argument, because fitness and fitness tests are not just cardio.


Chart Standards Devgru Requirements
#ExercisesPassGoodGreatGold
1Pullups+ 15 reps+ 22 reps+ 26 reps+ 30 reps
2Pushups+ 80 reps+ 100 reps+ 120 reps+ 130 reps
3Sit-ups+ 90 reps+ 110 reps+ 130 reps+ 140 reps
43 Mile Run-22:30 min-20:00 min-18:24 min-18:00 min
5880 M. Swim-13:00 min-11:22 min-11:00 min-10:30 min


S.A.S. Modified Test
#ExercisesPassGoodGreatGold
1.Press Ups+ 45 reps are needed to pass
2.Sit-Ups+ 45 reps are needed to pass
3.1.5-mile runThe run has to be finished in under 09:30 min
4.Water EntryJump from a 10-meter tower.
4.25-meter water swim3 Meter water entry in full kit + Swim in uniform and weapon.
5.200 m swimTread Water for 5 min + Swim in uniform.
6.Dive TestUnderwater Swim + Object Retrieval.
7.8 Mile Hill RunIn less than 60 minutes


That's generically what fitness tests come down to - the more reps you can do of certain things, the fitter you are; the faster you can run/swim a distance in, but going further, there are even more measures of fitness. Weighted runs, too, which would be a curious affair for a footballer.

Continually reducing it to nothing but cardio is redundant at best and disingenuous at worst.
Those things matter if you need to carry a wounded teammate across the battlefield, swim 2 miles under cover of darkness, or walk 40 miles with a 80lb bergen on your back. Not so much use for chasing a ball around a field. Football and basketball are predominantly running sports, so running tests are the relevant ones.

When people talk about fitness they generally mean cardiovascular endurance. That's why people talk about Tour de France riders as the fittest athletes in the world and not competitive weightlifters or gymnasts who could do endless reps of any of those tests.
 

VanDeBank

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Now read what I said again. This time pay attention to the word “occasional”.
Yes, I read your redundancy.

A cheat meal that's isn't occasional is not a cheat meal, it's a shitty diet.

Those things matter if you need to carry a wounded teammate across the battlefield, swim 2 miles under cover of darkness, or walk 40 miles with a 80lb bergen on your back. Not so much use for chasing a ball around a field. Football and basketball are predominantly running sports, so running tests are the relevant ones.

When people talk about fitness they generally mean cardiovascular endurance. That's why people talk about Tour de France riders as the fittest athletes in the world and not competitive weightlifters or gymnasts who could do endless reps of any of those tests.
Really moving the goal post here. First you claimed footballers were more athletic than the guys in popular American sports. Now you've changed it to fitness. They're 2 different things you can't just use interchangeably.
 

Ananke

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I just can’t forgive anyone who has a well done steak :( Why Mason…WHY!!!
 

justsomebloke

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Yes athleticism encompasses a wide set of traits including pace, strength and agility. Putting more emphasis on one over the other to conclude which is more athletic is just arbitrary. NBA players aren't less athletic because @11101 thinks being able to run longer or being able more agile is more important than being powerful or strong. I'm not even sure if footballers are more agile than NBA players. Based on what?

Completely disagree with athleticism being relative to one's genetics. It's not like we look at Dan James and see him drop at the slightest contact and think: "yeah his balance and coordination isn't bad relative to his genetics". On the flip side, we don't look at his insane sprint and go: "yeah, he was born really explosive (which he was), so it doesn't count as much towards him being athletic". Athleticism is highly genetic. Dan James was born fast and elite athletes are genetic freaks. Genetics play a huge role in explosiveness, VO2 max, pain tolerance, etc.
I'm not arguing that there should be a stronger emphasis on agility or whatever. I'm just pointing out that athleticism is a more complex concept than just raw power, size and strength. Otherwise, it would not be possible to say, for instance, that a featherweight boxer could have a high degree of athleticism. That's also what I attempted to convey when I wrote that it's to some extent relative to your basic physical characteristics - though I'll own up to making that argument clumsily, and you are right in what you say about the genetics. And I didn't mean to argue that athleticism is entirley relative to your starting point, or solely about what you do with it. It's just, it's got to make some allowance for that, surely? You would not, for instance, judge the athleticism of a featherweight and the athleticism of a heavyweight by the same strength metrics?
 
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Fortitude

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Those things matter if you need to carry a wounded teammate across the battlefield, swim 2 miles under cover of darkness, or walk 40 miles with a 80lb bergen on your back. Not so much use for chasing a ball around a field. Football and basketball are predominantly running sports, so running tests are the relevant ones.

When people talk about fitness they generally mean cardiovascular endurance. That's why people talk about Tour de France riders as the fittest athletes in the world and not competitive weightlifters or gymnasts who could do endless reps of any of those tests.
Nope, sorry. You can't just apply one subjective definition to fitness when it's clearly established what a fitness test consists of and those metrics used across numerous professions you need to have a full gamut of fitness for.

Being cardiovascularly superb is great inside a bubble, but if it needs to be equally supplemented across the broad gamut of what fitness is, it becomes a fraction of the prerequisite.

If you make footballers use their arms as well as legs in a fitness test, they will lack, obviously. In a full body fitness test, the outcome is just not conclusive.

I think the footballers come out on top, but not with any certainty. They have T-Rex arms and cores that aren't particularly impressive - custom-made for precisely the sport they're honed for.
 

11101

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Nope, sorry. You can't just apply one subjective definition to fitness when it's clearly established what a fitness test consists of and those metrics used across numerous professions you need to have a full gamut of fitness for.

Being cardiovascularly superb is great inside a bubble, but if it needs to be equally supplemented across the broad gamut of what fitness is, it becomes a fraction of the prerequisite.

If you make footballers use their arms as well as legs in a fitness test, they will lack, obviously. In a full body fitness test, the outcome is just not conclusive.

I think the footballers come out on top, but not with any certainty. They have T-Rex arms and cores that aren't particularly impressive - custom-made for precisely the sport they're honed for.
The medical definition of fitness is the level of ability to perform respiratory and cardiovascular activities. If you want to count pullups or bench presses then be my guest, but that's not what fitness is.
 

TsuWave

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i’m hoping it was an organised “cheat day” and a one off. that can’t be normal. that menu wouldn’t look out of place at a hotel in benidorm or at the darts.
seemingly been a problem with us for over a decade:

Barcelona defender Gerard Pique has claimed that Manchester United allow their players to eat what they want and that some players are overweight.

At United there were some incredible things happening. Everyone was allowed to eat what they wanted and one must remember that the English diet is just like people say.

'Every two weeks we had to be checked out on a machine that measured the amount of fat we had in our bodies.

'It would be a surprise that none of the players broke the machine because of the amount of hamburgers and beer they had.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...and-burgers-claims-Gerard-Pique-Football.html
 

Fortitude

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The medical definition of fitness is the level of ability to perform respiratory and cardiovascular activities. If you want to count pullups or bench presses then be my guest, but that's not what fitness is.
Primarily, which is a given as you need your heart to do any kind of physical exertion under duress. Boxing off fitness as you have done, doesn't make it so, and there's no test for any functional environment that just requires you to be able to run fast/long whilst omitting everything else.
 

Mike Smalling

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seemingly been a problem with us for over a decade:

Barcelona defender Gerard Pique has claimed that Manchester United allow their players to eat what they want and that some players are overweight.

At United there were some incredible things happening. Everyone was allowed to eat what they wanted and one must remember that the English diet is just like people say.

'Every two weeks we had to be checked out on a machine that measured the amount of fat we had in our bodies.

'It would be a surprise that none of the players broke the machine because of the amount of hamburgers and beer they had.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...and-burgers-claims-Gerard-Pique-Football.html
That's interesting, since Pique was here in a time where we were quite successful.
 

VanDeBank

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That's exactly what he was getting at.
Yes and my point was you'd have to be very dense to think it's a 50-50 as to whether or not Man utd players frequently eat garbage together. More so if you claim to know what "sport scientists unanimously agree on".

hint: they don't. Duh-doi.
 

Dan_F

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The medical definition of fitness is the level of ability to perform respiratory and cardiovascular activities. If you want to count pullups or bench presses then be my guest, but that's not what fitness is.
Your first post said that Ronaldo would run rings around basketball players in any fitness or athleticism test. You’re now talking about respiratory or cardiovascular tests specifically.

The whole debate started when you actually used the word athleticism yourself. Then you just went on to talk about the distance they cover in games. No one is arguing about the ability of footballers to run longer distances than basketball players in one go.
 

VeevaVee

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Yes and my point was you'd have to be very dense to think it's a 50-50 as to whether or not Man utd players frequently eat garbage together. More so if you claim to know what "sport scientists unanimously agree on".

hint: they don't. Duh-doi.
Lee Grant just said they get to choose what they eat on a cheat meal every Friday, including desserts
 

Conor

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@VanDeBank your posts are fairly shite, and you seem awfully familiar and confrontational for someone on the forum 4 months. What was your previous username?
 

VanDeBank

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Lee Grant just said they get to choose what they eat on a cheat meal every Friday, including desserts
One meal a week sounds reasonable to me. It's not making me question their professionalism.

@VanDeBank your posts are fairly shite, and you seem awfully familiar and confrontational for someone on the forum 4 months. What was your previous username?
On which one of your alts did you lose an argument with me?

Edit: You got upset I explained how a standing vertical jump is barely trainable in a normal healthy adult, as explosiveness is largely genetic. Really? Makes sense to hold a grudge over :rolleyes:
 
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