Tennis 2021

ExoduS

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,560
Location
Serbia
I see Nole is not favorite around here. Well - it was not meant to be but the way I see it: If he won this, it would be a huge achievement but huge deflation as well. This failure could add fuel to the fire for another amazing year next year. If you look at history of Nole you can see that after his biggest loss at the time (RG final against Wawrinka) he came out firing and winning next 4 slams. On another hand after winning RG 2016 (biggest win of his career) he went onto biggest slump of his career.

So yeah... He did lose, but he lost to inspired and excellent opponent. Opponent who was more fresh physically and mentally, and is about 10 years younger. That draw was from hell. If he finished the job, he would have beaten 4 grand slam finalists.

Also I am a bit bitter today and have to add... Lead up to this final Djokovic had to play 3 night sessions, while Medvedev had to play 3 day sessions. Final was during the day. Conditions are faster during the day and Medvedev was so well calibrated.

Life goes on. There will be never conversation in tennis about the GOAT without Novak being mentioned in it. For me that is good enough. Doesn't have to be undisputed best ever. Federer and Nadal have their legacies, but Djokovic is right there with them and in some segments surpassed them. He was never meant to be this great, but he did it anyway.

Congrats to Medvedev. Amazing performance. Has he blinked in that second set, things could have been very different.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
85,440
Location
india
Relieved that Mendelev won. Djokovic will cross Federer and Nadal in terms of GS soon enough (probably AUS open) but A) the later the better and B) thank feck for some real quality in the men's game outsiders the big 3. About time. Mendelev is the only one who genuinely looks like he truly belongs (even before this). Hopefully that young Spanish kid is the next to explode.
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
38,543
Relieved that Mendelev won. Djokovic will cross Federer and Nadal in terms of GS soon enough (probably AUS open) but A) the later the better and B) thank feck for some real quality in the men's game outsiders the big 3. About time. Mendelev is the only one who genuinely looks like he truly belongs (even before this). Hopefully that young Spanish kid is the next to explode.
Delighted for a new name. It isn’t over for Novak but glad someone has finally ended the run.
Two new winners on the board1
 

Brophs

The one and only
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
46,361
As a natural supporter, I feel really disappointed not to have seen someone win the Grand Slam. It might never happen in my lifetime. It would have been the perfect way to see Djokovic put to bed the GOAT/slam record thing, which barring unforeseen circumstances, he’ll end up being comfortably ahead on eventually.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
6,888
Location
London
I see Nole is not favorite around here. Well - it was not meant to be but the way I see it: If he won this, it would be a huge achievement but huge deflation as well. This failure could add fuel to the fire for another amazing year next year. If you look at history of Nole you can see that after his biggest loss at the time (RG final against Wawrinka) he came out firing and winning next 4 slams. On another hand after winning RG 2016 (biggest win of his career) he went onto biggest slump of his career.

So yeah... He did lose, but he lost to inspired and excellent opponent. Opponent who was more fresh physically and mentally, and is about 10 years younger. That draw was from hell. If he finished the job, he would have beaten 4 grand slam finalists.

Also I am a bit bitter today and have to add... Lead up to this final Djokovic had to play 3 night sessions, while Medvedev had to play 3 day sessions. Final was during the day. Conditions are faster during the day and Medvedev was so well calibrated.

Life goes on. There will be never conversation in tennis about the GOAT without Novak being mentioned in it. For me that is good enough. Doesn't have to be undisputed best ever. Federer and Nadal have their legacies, but Djokovic is right there with them and in some segments surpassed them. He was never meant to be this great, but he did it anyway.

Congrats to Medvedev. Amazing performance. Has he blinked in that second set, things could have been very different.
Absolutely. I have to admit, I am not his biggest fan and struggle to warm to him as a player the same way I have both Federer and Nadal. But that's not uncommon, and I'm sure it's more routed in the idea that he could (and probably will) surpass their open hauls.

Djok is an incredible player who has had to contend with obstacles that neither Federer or Nadal had to simply due to fans' love for the latter. 100% one of the greatest, with a very real claim at top spot.
 

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
13,719
Only shame is we didn't get to see history but that's the beauty of sports it's about on that day. Records, trophies, history count for feck all. It was a fantastic performance from Medvedev. I remember a sequence of points in the second or third set where he sends Djokovic the wrong way twice in a row. He was out thinking the goat. He looks like the one to break that number 1 stranglehold djokovic has been having. Needs to improve his clay and grass game a bit too. First title of many for the next Gen and I'm glad it's Medvedev who breaks the duck. I think he's the most likable of the him,zverev, tsisipas trinity.
 

Spiersey

Full Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
7,243
Location
United Kingdom.
Supports
Chelsea
Thought his speech was fine, he’s pretty much never had a crowd like that in his favour and is more used to having it against him. He’s also lived with a lot of pressure since Wimbledon and even though he lost, that pressure is still gone as soon as the match is over. He’ll feel some sort of relief even after losing now.
 

MattofManchester

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,971
That is probably the easiest path you can ever have to reach a Slam final. Novak, on the other hand, had an absolute horror draw with Berretini, Zverev and Med back to back. With Roger and Rafa out, that is probably the hardest draw he could have faced given the form of these opponents.
Gasquet, Evans can cause a threat on their day. FAA has had a good year.
Easiest route? Have you seen some of the paths Djokovic has gotten to his slam finals on? Fed as well at Wimbledon?
This was hardly the easiest.
 

saivet

Full Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
21,308
Gasquet, Evans can cause a threat on their day. FAA has had a good year.
Easiest route? Have you seen some of the paths Djokovic has gotten to his slam finals on? Fed as well at Wimbledon?
This was hardly the easiest.
It's near to as good a route to the final as you could hope for. Gasquet hasn't caused anyone problems for a while and while Evans isn't an easy match, he's been in poor form for a while. Even at his best Evans is the type of player that may give you a good match but he's not winning. FAA has had a good year but him beating Medvedev would have been a pretty big shock.

It's a credit to Medvedev that he's navigated his draw easily as expected.


It’s not even top 3 easiest route since 2017, lets just casually forget 2017, 18 and 19 :lol:
Disagree with 2019. The easiest route to the final has to be 2016 US Open for Djokovic (he lost the final anyway) as half his opponents were injured.

R1: Janowicz
R2: Walkover
R3: Youzhny (retired in set 1)
R4: Edmund
QF: Tsonga (retired after set 2)
SF: Monfils
 
Last edited:

Zen

Full Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
12,352
I didn't even go that far back as his point was shit....but yep, further exemplify it.

Basically Djokovic has bottled the US Open big time in his career, maybe he just can't consistency condition his body to last the season. It's no surprise that Nadal, master of conditioning has took of advantage and overachieved there. Logically, there's no reason for him to have more US titles than Novak.. but there ya go. He does. I reckon Nole would somehow flop those draws in 2017-19, or at least only come away with one of them.
 

MattofManchester

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,971
I didn't even go that far back as his point was shit....but yep, further exemplify it.

Basically Djokovic has bottled the US Open big time in his career, maybe he just can't consistency condition his body to last the season. It's no surprise that Nadal, master of conditioning has took of advantage and overachieved there. Logically, there's no reason for him to have more US titles than Novak.. but there ya go. He does. I reckon Nole would somehow flop those draws in 2017-19, or at least only come away with one of them.
You're taking some serious credit away from the likes of Wawrinka and so on who have beaten Novak, including his controversial retirement against Stan and excluding his DQ, which was a one time surprise circumstance to occur.
Stan outplayed him at AO as well.

It wasn't even a choke as much as it was just him being outplayed by a younger, fresher and possible better version of his current self.

The same could be said of Nadal when it comes to AO and his numerous injuries there when he could have a run.

Djokovic is the best conditioned, always has been. His body has the most endurance. Proven by the fact that he goes on to win the indoor tournaments and Finals.

It just so happens that he's lost a bit at this tournament. It's sport, it happens.

Should also be said that the US Open court is slower than the AO Court, which, while being hardcourt, suits his game less.
 

Mark_Barca

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
2,268
Supports
Barcelona
3 US open slam wins, another 6 finals and two SFs but aye bottler at the US open. :lol:
 

Zen

Full Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
12,352
You're taking some serious credit away from the likes of Wawrinka and so on who have beaten Novak, including his controversial retirement against Stan and excluding his DQ, which was a one time surprise circumstance to occur.
Stan outplayed him at AO as well.

It wasn't even a choke as much as it was just him being outplayed by a younger, fresher and possible better version of his current self.

The same could be said of Nadal when it comes to AO and his numerous injuries there when he could have a run.

Djokovic is the best conditioned, always has been. His body has the most endurance. Proven by the fact that he goes on to win the indoor tournaments and Finals.

It just so happens that he's lost a bit at this tournament. It's sport, it happens.

Should also be said that the US Open court is slower than the AO Court, which, while being hardcourt, suits his game less.
I'm not taking any credit away from Wawrinka, Daniil, Nadal(2013) or Murray.... all worthy winners. All we're underdogs, so only backs up my point. He's lost more finals(3-6) at the US alone than the other 3 combined(17-5). Oh and there's the loss to Kei too.

Nadal being a favourite for either of hard has been pretty rare, so no, it's not comparable. Murray would be the better comparison if using the AO, but even then, he was the underdog in every final he was in.... whereas Djoko has been the fave for all but maybe 1 US Open of the past 10 years?
 

Bobski

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
5,742
Goat discussions are so toxic in every sport, a reflection of our own narcissism. Great sportspeople from the past set a mark for the next to reach and redefine what is possible for the next generation, Djokovic does not become as good as he has without Federer and Nadal, Nadal without Federer, Federer without Sampras and so on

In all sports we need to worry less about a ranking lists which lead to nonsense like 34yo Djokovic being called a choker after dominating the year.
 

giggs-beckham

Clueless
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
5,795
Medvedev has been playing incredibly safe, taunting Djokovic to try and force a winner and it’s paid off because the unforced errors have clearly ground him down
He was playing how Novak plays just keep the other guy in and wait for the mistake. Boring as feck both of them he out shit tennised Novak and beat him at his own game. That was his tactic. Probably the best way to beat him going for power grace and winners plays into his hands.
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
21,431
Location
New York City
I thought the crowd thing was the whole American’s backing a champion rather than an underdog thing but I guess it’s just because he’s Russian?
Wasn't at the Ashe, but it seemed to me the crowd was backing Medvedev early on and only started pushing for Djokovic during the third set. Crowd loves to get their money's worth, a three setter wasn't it.

As for the dickheads that were booing Medvedev during his serve, that's inexcusable. Could have been people betting on Djokovic, fans wanting to witness history, diehard Nole fans, some overexcited Serbs - either way - inexcusable.
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
21,431
Location
New York City
Perhaps Novak put too much pressure on himself? After the Zverev match he said he was going to put his body and soul on the line and he'd play it as if it was his last ever match.
I thought exactly the same fckn thing - 'watch him lose now'. Medvedev played a stunner, but I think Djokovic was fatigued both physically and mentally. He was just bearing all this weight of expectation and in the end he crumbled. Notice him bawling his eyes during the second to last game in the third set, it was just pent up emotions and he just couldn't cope.

Physically, he played 4+ hrs of tennis more than Medvedev, in a tournament like this it certainly accumulates quick.

I'd summarize by saying that he's amazing athlete but this was a step too far, and I'm perfectly happy with the result. He'll win more than Federer and Nadal (def more than Federer, Nadal might add a few more RG slams) but he certainly one of the best ever. Without wanting to opine on the GOAT discussion - which is even more boring than the Messi v Ronaldo debate - I'd say that even though he'll never be as liked as Federer or Nadal he's at a minimum as good as either. (And a dickhead to boot!)

Zverev took his legs and Medvedev took his soul! :cool:
 

Avatar

Full Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
3,563
Location
Egypt
Supports
Barcelona
The Laver Cup is one of the best tournaments to grace the tennis world; sadly it is still underrated. Some brilliant matches yesterday, and it's still the first day!!
 

saivet

Full Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
21,308
The Laver Cup is one of the best tournaments to grace the tennis world; sadly it is still underrated. Some brilliant matches yesterday, and it's still the first day!!
It's pretty fun when I've watched it but given the lack of stakes and manipulated scoring system I'm not sure how seriously I can take it. Certainly not worth staying up late for imo. When it's back in Europe I'll watch it and if it ever is in the UK, I'd try to go.

Just seen it is in London next year..
 

saivet

Full Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
21,308
Didn't watch any of it but I see the Laver Cup was even more one sided this year in favour of Team Europe. If they want to continue Europe vs Rest of the World they should bring in some ladies to balance things out as it's a complete mismatch.
 

Avatar

Full Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
3,563
Location
Egypt
Supports
Barcelona
Didn't watch any of it but I see the Laver Cup was even more one sided this year in favour of Team Europe. If they want to continue Europe vs Rest of the World they should bring in some ladies to balance things out as it's a complete mismatch.
The final score does not do Team World justice. With the exception of three matches, all the rest needed a tiebreaker.

It's pretty fun when I've watched it but given the lack of stakes and manipulated scoring system I'm not sure how seriously I can take it. Certainly not worth staying up late for imo. When it's back in Europe I'll watch it and if it ever is in the UK, I'd try to go.

Just seen it is in London next year..
Well the players do seem to take it seriously.
 

choccy77

Full Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
5,392
Sacks her coach, receives tonnes of money and endorsements....

Loses her opening round match on her first Tour, blames it on being 18, no experience playing at night and say's she has to play week in week out to improve.

Well if you get beaten in the opening round, you won't be playing week in week to improve.

I hope that this just grounds her a little, because she clearly has qualities to go far, but focus and hard work is what will get her there.

In a way, losing that final may have been better for her long term, would be a shame if that ends up being her only big tournament win of her career.

Kournikova was a good young player too, but her off the court life, was far more dominate than what she did on the court and she had a lot of people around her making money off her, she used Tennis as a window around the world to promote her off court lifestyle.
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
21,431
Location
New York City
Sacks her coach, receives tonnes of money and endorsements....

Loses her opening round match on her first Tour, blames it on being 18, no experience playing at night and say's she has to play week in week out to improve.

Well if you get beaten in the opening round, you won't be playing week in week to improve.

I hope that this just grounds her a little, because she clearly has qualities to go far, but focus and hard work is what will get her there.

In a way, losing that final may have been better for her long term, would be a shame if that ends up being her only big tournament win of her career.

Kournikova was a good young player too, but her off the court life, was far more dominate than what she did on the court and she had a lot of people around her making money off her, she used Tennis as a window around the world to promote her off court lifestyle.
Wasn't it the other way round? The coach had signed on thru the USO as he had other prior commitments, including coaching his own highly rated 10 yr old son.

She'll figure it out, she needs to regroup and maybe not enter all three tournaments thru the end of the year.

But it's nice to see the knives are out, so typical
 

choccy77

Full Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
5,392
Wasn't it the other way round? The coach had signed on thru the USO as he had other prior commitments, including coaching his own highly rated 10 yr old son.

She'll figure it out, she needs to regroup and maybe not enter all three tournaments thru the end of the year.

But it's nice to see the knives are out, so typical
That's what the media are saying. Not my specific words.
 

Jippy

Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes
Staff
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
52,900
Location
Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
Sacks her coach, receives tonnes of money and endorsements....

Loses her opening round match on her first Tour, blames it on being 18, no experience playing at night and say's she has to play week in week out to improve.

Well if you get beaten in the opening round, you won't be playing week in week to improve.

I hope that this just grounds her a little, because she clearly has qualities to go far, but focus and hard work is what will get her there.

In a way, losing that final may have been better for her long term, would be a shame if that ends up being her only big tournament win of her career.

Kournikova was a good young player too, but her off the court life, was far more dominate than what she did on the court and she had a lot of people around her making money off her, she used Tennis as a window around the world to promote her off court lifestyle.
:lol:Yes let's write off the rest of her career after she lost one match.
 

Zen

Full Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
12,352
Yeah, some reaction that :lol:

I did warn people to be a bit(/a lot) more grounded, the WTA tour is absolutely wild. We shouldn't be overhyping any player in general until a consistent run over a couple of years, loads have had short term runs but drifted away.