I think the djokovic style being unattractive is a meme at this point. He had more winners than Nadal yesterday. I can understand preferring Federer or Nadals style but I'm afraid I can't really understand those who find djokovics game hard to watch or unappealing. In terms of serving, volleying, forehand, backhand, lobs, drops he has it all.
Tennis 2021
- Thread starter Sean_RedDevil
- Start date
I'd agree with this. There's also a likeability factor that often gets overlooked. People simply seem to like Federer a bit more than the other two, even though Rafa is probably just as nice a guy as Fed (if not more). Novak probably a touch less given some of his off the court antics.
I see it this way: Federer is the most artistic, Nadal is the most athletic, Djoker is the most intelligent.
If you're fit enough, thus putting fitness aside, then the mind would give you a heck of an advantage; and I'm a Federer fan.
If you're fit enough, thus putting fitness aside, then the mind would give you a heck of an advantage; and I'm a Federer fan.
That's a nice way to put it.
But that's my point he played on those surfaces in America 6 straight years and never won it, twice on clay in years he won the French Open. Look at Djokovic, arguably the greatest hard court player ever couldn't get over the line at the Cincinnati Open until 2018. 10 years it took him.
It may be the same surface type but we all know they don't always play the same.
Would Borg have won more slams if he played for another 5+ years, of course, would it have been up to 25? Extremely Doubtful. Reason being he had lost 3/4 of his last slam finals to an emerging McEnroe. Who was 3 years younger and he only managed to win another three GS titles in the following 11 years. Lendl, Wilander, Edberg and Becker were all strong in 80s. Very unlikely Borg dominated through the 80s in my view.
It's a complete myth regarding Djokovic's style IMO. He's so talented in all aspects of his game and some of his shot hitting is incredible, really underrated in that regard. Great player to watch and way people act like their watching David Ferrer is crazy, no offence to Ferrer.
Way people go on about Roger that he just constructs points, hits fantastic shots non stop is another myth, his serving is one of the greatest of all time. Amount of times you see ace, ace, ace or unreturned serve. Surely that is more boring than seeing someone defend and return unreturnable shots and turn defence into attack?
All three are great to watch, but it does seem like people go overboard on styles because their favourite Federer slam record has been caught.
The US Open on grass up to 74 wouldn't have really come into play for Borg since he was 17/18 years old at the time and didn't win his first Wimbledon until 76. He could've conceivably won one on clay for the 2-3 years it was on that surface, but then again he didn't win every single slam he competed in, and was beaten one year by peak Jimmy Connors. He was however dominant at Wimbledon and RG, for much of the latter part of the decade and into the early 80s, and at 26, there was really no indication that he couldn't have continued picking up many more slams had he played until the mid to late 80s.
Your a blind person or just Djokovic hating if you think his style of play is unattractive
I was ooo’ing and ahhhh’ing all night last night with the shots he was banging out
sensational viewing when he’s playing like that, and also he pulls it off by looking fresh all the time
Federer was still certainly more eye catching with his style, with Balletically floating around the court making mind blowing shots with what seemed like zero effort
Djokovic isn’t balletic or as pleasing to watch as Federer, but his style is still a beaut, it’s still formidable, it’s still Exceptional quality personified, just different to Feds and Nadals
certainly several million miles from unattractive
I was ooo’ing and ahhhh’ing all night last night with the shots he was banging out
sensational viewing when he’s playing like that, and also he pulls it off by looking fresh all the time
Federer was still certainly more eye catching with his style, with Balletically floating around the court making mind blowing shots with what seemed like zero effort
Djokovic isn’t balletic or as pleasing to watch as Federer, but his style is still a beaut, it’s still formidable, it’s still Exceptional quality personified, just different to Feds and Nadals
certainly several million miles from unattractive
djokovic’s 2011 and 2015 season surpass any season Federer had. If we want to dive deep into the ELO ratings Djokovic has done it against tougher competition than Federer as has Nadal.Federer often had a mental block against Djokovic and from 2010 onward was the beginning of his decline against Djokovic
Djokovic is 34 years old, people are acting like he’s still 25. Just because nadal has declined doesn’t make what Djokovic doing any less impressive. I’d argue Djokovic is playing better than any 34 year old in history.
First set of the woman's final went by super quickly. 6-1 Krejcikova
Amazing third set last night, couldn't take my eyes off it (and I missed the footie, gladly)
Regarding the GOAT debate, wonder if Pistol Pete belongs in the conversation. He retired too early, as did most of his contemporaries I suppose. Then again Fed/Nad/Nole have had the benefit of modern sports science in terms of faster recovery, better nutrition, physio etc, to prolong their careers so who knows.
Regarding the GOAT debate, wonder if Pistol Pete belongs in the conversation. He retired too early, as did most of his contemporaries I suppose. Then again Fed/Nad/Nole have had the benefit of modern sports science in terms of faster recovery, better nutrition, physio etc, to prolong their careers so who knows.
sure, you can make all those arguments. i'm not claiming federer beat peak djoko either. my argument was against saying that novak "conquered" him at his peak. their peaks simply did not coincide. neither did nadal's and federer's, but young clay-court-specialist nadal still beat him regularly (mostly on clay, but also on hard, and eventually he was the one to end him at wimbledon).
4 years of win percentages that nobody else has matched. (djoko crossed 90 twice in his career - 91 and 93 in 2011 and 15, nadal did it once in 2013) seems good to me to define a "peak".*
For example, i'd put messi's peak at 2010-15, 5 years. Just like with Federer's improved 2017 backhand, some people try to argue the playmaker version of Messi is better, but it's no contest against their explosive younger selves.
*Interestingly, not just their overall win %age, their H2H in those years against their peers is also great: 8-4 for Djokovic vs Federer in 2011+2015, 4-0 for Nadal vs Fed in 2013, and 10-0 for Djokovic vs Nadal in those 2 years. The only exception is 3-3 for Nadal-Djokovic in 2013, so you can say Djokovic matched Nadal at his peak.
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The problem for Djokovic is that he came after the other 2..... and threes a crowd. The Tennis fanbase adulation didn't have space for him. If the other didn't exist and he was almighty still, he wouldn't get these odd ass complaints about his game or whatever. I sense it massively frustrates and by god, it should.
It's a bit bizarre how you guys can't accept that people might not enjoy watching Djokovic.
It reminds me a bit of the Chelsea fans on here defending their most recent title winning team under Jose, and why it was actually really attacking football and everyone who thought otherwise was wrong, blind, stupid, biased, etc.
The thing everybody forgets when having this debate, usually due to being partisan, is that style, greatness, and entertainment factor is subjective, and not everybody enjoys the same thing.
It's actually more bizarre that a tennis fan wouldn't enjoy watching one of if not the greatest tennis player of all time.
Nobody is saying you have to enjoy him more than Federer or whoever but to not enjoy watching great tennis is just weird for a tennis fan. Nothing to do with being partisan either as im sure all the people who quoted would have the same reaction is someone said they don't enjoy watching Nadal or Federer.
Like Zen posted though i think it's the third wheel thing and also there are a lot of Fed/Nadal/Murray fans bitter that's he's outshining a lot of their favorites and beat them in some important matches.
Here we go again, another "it's just jealous fanboys not liking the players I like" comment. Maybe people just have different tastes to you?
Djokovic is the most efficient tennis player I've ever seen, but I don't find his efficiency exciting. For his matches to be watchable for me I need someone on the other side of the net constantly middling the ball and hitting the lines.
It's not really his fault, but he's a product of his times - slow courts, long grueling rallies, percentages, grinding opponents down, all of which he's a master at, but none of which get me off my seat.
Anyway the "real tennis fan likes what I like" stuff is a bit too school playground for my liking, so I'll leave it at this: people can like different things without anyone being wrong. That's something that should be celebrated, not denigrated.
Nobody said you can't like what you like. Calm down, I just said it's weird. Your reasons don't make a lot of sense to me but sure to each their own.
i'm very heavily procrastinating
the table was obviously added manually so it may not be properly aligned.
e - for some reason, it's the 2 graphs that aren't aligned, even though they were made together on the same grid! damn you, R!!!!
the table was obviously added manually so it may not be properly aligned.
e - for some reason, it's the 2 graphs that aren't aligned, even though they were made together on the same grid! damn you, R!!!!
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You can't really say that with certainty. Borg struggled massively with the mental aspect of the game towards the end of his career. That was the main reason why he retired in the first place. Had he continued he could have equally faded out with no slams to his name. Its really hard to say.
No comments yet on the final? Far better viewing than the England game
Going to a tie break. Djokovic failed to serve it out at 6-5
back from the dead. again. 6-6, great winner from Tsitsi.
1-0 for Tsitsipas (7-6) after one hour. Till now, a very good and competitive game
Tsisipas takes it. We got ourselves a final.
Haha Tsitsipas might really pull a Wawrinka 2015 on Djokovic here. Playing incredible Tennis and seems way fitter. Djokovic still tired from Friday? And he also doesn`t like the heat as far as I know? (Although its not inredible hot in Paris atm)
Novak is struggling, and Tsitsipas has been great. Would be a shame for him, personally.
Djokovic needs to up his level before it's too late. don't think he'll have enough energy if he goes 0-2.
Now the break as well. Novak is done here, unfortunately.
it looks that way, but never rule out these younger players crumbling under pressure. it's Novak, he can break him right away.
Sure.
Though, I do believe in Greek and hope he wins, but you're way too harsh on Đoković, who time and again showed us escapes from worse situations.
Say what you want about him and his 'weak era' - but peak Federer didn't give a sniff like Djokovic is doing here and has done with Wawrinka and well, Murray too.... though I’m almost certain he felt sorry for Murray and gifted him that first US
disappointing from Djoko so far. double break now, Tsitsi serving for set.
I agree. His style lacks a certain charm or joy to it. Mourinho's Chelsea is the perfect comparison. Functional and highly effective but lacking in entertainment value. I don't like defensive tennis but I somehow find Nadal more interestingly stylistically and like I said back foot tennis is not my cup of tea.
Federer is obviously the sportsman, not just tennis player, who scores highest in this regard. I don't think I've ever seen a mode graceful sportsman. Like watching a fricking painting.
Also this match has been very surprising. Tsitipas has been superb and Djokovic mediocre. I thought he'd steamroll him. But if anyone can come back from 2 down its Djokovic.
What a bottle job from serving for the 1st set.
Finished it with an ace down the line. Djokovic poor in the second.
Djokovic 2 sets down, very poor
Djokovic looks gone. Will be incredible if he pulls it back from here
just too many errors from Djoko, tiredness isn't that big factor at this point. simply isn't there.
Those players are far better than players Fed played in his weak era.Say what you want about him and his 'weak era' - but peak Federer didn't give a sniff like Djokovic is doing here and has done with Wawrinka and well, Murray too.... though I’m almost certain he felt sorry for Murray and gifted him that first US
Novak just doesn't look up for it, strange thing to say but it's true.