The “Ole doesn’t have the players to work with” myth

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,100
don't care what the feck you think. If you think Ole is is the man to take us forward that is your opinion.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-says-finishing-outside-the-top-four-will-not-stop-players-joining-man-united
What are you on about? You got some agenda mate. I’m asking you where did you get the idea of something that I never heard of or something that the manager never said, I’m not arguing with you whether Ole is the man to take us forward.

And clear to me that I saw feckin nothing about him ever said world class midfielder in that link. Why is it so hard to admit or accept that you are wrong or misread? You are just making it up, there is difference between your own opinion and making things up to suit your own agenda.

The clear evidence here is Ole have said it last week he wanted a midfielder & so far players he signed are not world class.
 

Fosu-Mens

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
3,131
Location
Fred | 2019/20 Performances
Stop making excuses and ignoring fact.

Our defense last season was terrible, it wasn’t just Ole who wants a new centre back but Mourinho also wanted one in his last summer transfer window and when he didn’t get one he was moaning. Two managers had the same idea of signing centre back and if it doesn’t convince why those two thinks we need one you may be you should watch the game again and look at Jones in the weekend, are you telling me that was good enough?

We have spent the entire 3 transfer window under Mourinho a 180m for 3 midfield and that wasn’t enough to even fix it. What the feck Mourinho was doing in those three summer windows wasting our money.

We needed a winger, a full back & centre back and we got them. Why are you still moaning with our recruitment? If anything been the most positive is actually the recruitment & the improvement of our players. I bet if we don’t get a centre back but get midfield instead you would have still moan about why Ole didn’t sign a centre back. People like you are just finding excuses to blame the manager just because he doesn’t suit you.
Obviously your opinion is what constitutes as fact...
Making excuses? Seriously?

Statistically, we are only marginally better at defending from open play compared to last season and we are yet to play City. I expect we will see similar statistical numbers to last season come May. What you do not seem to grasp is that for a team as poor as we are at attacking, for us to win on a regular basis we need to be extremely good in defence, which we are not and is not a sustainable approach to rely on 1-0 wins each week.
What is an easier scenario to accomplish?
1. Reduce the number of expected goals allowed with 20.
2. Reduce the number of expected goals allowed with 10 and increase the number of expected goals scored with 10.

First, you use Mourinho's argument for wanting a Centreback to prove you are correct about us spending £80m on Maguire, then you are questioning his capability as a manager for wasting £180m on midfielders over 3 seasons... I'm not disagreeing with you that we needed a centreback, only that we needed 1-2 midfielders a lot more than we needed Maguire. Both could have been accomplished had the people at the club not been incompetent and thought that Maguire would be a radical upgrade, his immobility not a major issue and that he was worth £80m...

Even though Mourinho/the club spent that sum on midfielders over the last 3 years it is obvious that the players we have available for midfield are on average far below the quality that is needed.

I stated before the window that our main priority should be to fix the midfield. I agreed that buying a right-sided fullback should be done but spending £50m on a defensive specialist was not worth it, and we would be better served by spending half that on a more experienced and attacking able player like Meunier. I also stated that Maguire was overrated and his lack of mobility would become an issue even if we played a low block/park the bus scheme, which we have seen. A right-winger like Zyiech would do the trick given that he can score, create and function in other situations than a counter-attacking setup.

I'm "moaning" about our recruitment because it is still shockingly bad. We are buying players suited to a style of football that will never get us far. We failed to address our obvious need for midfielders over the summer and we failed to bring in a right-winger that can perform against a balanced defence. We are still completely incompetent at anything other than parking the bus and hoping for a mistake or a counter. This squads ability to retain possession is among the worst teams in the league.

I stated in the previous post that OGS and his coaches are not the only ones to blame, and those previous managers, Woodward etc are more at fault for our current situation. But the players brought in during the summer compared to what we needed and the style of football we play etc are all on OGS and it is these two things that I criticize.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,100
Obviously your opinion is what constitutes as fact...
Making excuses? Seriously?

Statistically, we are only marginally better at defending from open play compared to last season and we are yet to play City. I expect we will see similar statistical numbers to last season come May. What you do not seem to grasp is that for a team as poor as we are at attacking, for us to win on a regular basis we need to be extremely good in defence, which we are not and is not a sustainable approach to rely on 1-0 wins each week.
What is an easier scenario to accomplish?
1. Reduce the number of expected goals allowed with 20.
2. Reduce the number of expected goals allowed with 10 and increase the number of expected goals scored with 10.

First, you use Mourinho's argument for wanting a Centreback to prove you are correct about us spending £80m on Maguire, then you are questioning his capability as a manager for wasting £180m on midfielders over 3 seasons... I'm not disagreeing with you that we needed a centreback, only that we needed 1-2 midfielders a lot more than we needed Maguire. Both could have been accomplished had the people at the club not been incompetent and thought that Maguire would be a radical upgrade, his immobility not a major issue and that he was worth £80m...

Even though Mourinho/the club spent that sum on midfielders over the last 3 years it is obvious that the players we have available for midfield are on average far below the quality that is needed.

I stated before the window that our main priority should be to fix the midfield. I agreed that buying a right-sided fullback should be done but spending £50m on a defensive specialist was not worth it, and we would be better served by spending half that on a more experienced and attacking able player like Meunier. I also stated that Maguire was overrated and his lack of mobility would become an issue even if we played a low block/park the bus scheme, which we have seen. A right-winger like Zyiech would do the trick given that he can score, create and function in other situations than a counter-attacking setup.

I'm "moaning" about our recruitment because it is still shockingly bad. We are buying players suited to a style of football that will never get us far. We failed to address our obvious need for midfielders over the summer and we failed to bring in a right-winger that can perform against a balanced defence. We are still completely incompetent at anything other than parking the bus and hoping for a mistake or a counter. This squads ability to retain possession is among the worst teams in the league.

I stated in the previous post that OGS and his coaches are not the only ones to blame, and those previous managers, Woodward etc are more at fault for our current situation. But the players brought in during the summer compared to what we needed and the style of football we play etc are all on OGS and it is these two things that I criticize.
So you would rather see Lindelof & Phil Jones in centre back than McTominay - Pogba - Fred in midfield? Is this a joke? How can you manage to say our central defenders is more or less to an average EPL level but you call our midfield as "far below" of the level.

You are making excuses that you think we need midfielder more than a centre back, it's so ridiculous because the reality is we need a centre back as equal as we need a midfielder. I'm using Jose's case spent 180m on midfielders not because I'm questioning Mourinho but I'm questioning your excuses to tell you that even even after spent 3 of summer windows to sort out our midfielders, we were still making no progress last season, & there was still problem in our team. At the end of the day we have to consider those two position as equal problems that we need to sort out.

It's not shockingly bad, why are you talking nonsense? Our recruitment have been performing very well for us so far this season. What game are you watching?

We spent 50m on full back for worth of the next 10 years not for only 2 or 3 years like Meunier who barely even play regular with PSG.
Maguire was brought in to upgrade our defense, add ability to play from the back, add the composure, leadership & experience in defense which he did.
Daniel James has been our best signing so far and potentially to cement the starting XI winger position for very long time.

These three players are basically have prove them self that they have potential capable to take United to the next level as a part of the rebuilding plan.

We aren't parking the bus & waiting for mistake for counter in all our games. Completely different to how Mourinho play. Just because we are turning defense into attack or we play counter doesn't mean all we are doing is parking the bus & waiting for mistake. You are ignoring the fact that we are relying on pressing & we play a counter press. Just because we went defensive approach against Liverpool doesn't mean we did the same thing to other games, the manager isn't naive to approach every game the same way, the manager has to consider what's the current squad's weakness as well.
 

Eric's Seagull

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
3,422
Location
4-4-2: The Flat One
Stop making excuses and ignoring fact.

Our defense last season was terrible, it wasn’t just Ole who wants a new centre back but Mourinho also wanted one in his last summer transfer window and when he didn’t get one he was moaning. Two managers had the same idea of signing centre back and if it doesn’t convince why those two thinks we need one you may be you should watch the game again and look at Jones in the weekend, are you telling me that was good enough?

We have spent the entire 3 transfer window under Mourinho a 180m for 3 midfield and that wasn’t enough to even fix it. What the feck Mourinho was doing in those three summer windows wasting our money.

We needed a winger, a full back & centre back and we got them. Why are you still moaning with our recruitment? If anything been the most positive is actually the recruitment & the improvement of our players. I bet if we don’t get a centre back but get midfield instead you would have still moan about why Ole didn’t sign a centre back. People like you are just finding excuses to blame the manager just because he doesn’t suit you.
I agree with you that we needed a winger, Full back and centre back and am happy that we got them as our defence was a shambles last season due to the amount of goals we conceded. If we didn't sign players in those areas, depending on injuries we may have had to field a back 4 of Dalot, Jones, Rojo and Young some games and there is a chance we may have conceded even more goals.

I think that it was negligent not getting in another midfielder as it has been shown how lacking we have been in that are due to the injury to Pogba and now McTominay as well and I really hope we do something about it in the next window, same thing applies to striker as shown how bad we can be when Martial is out.
 

Bobcat

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
3,528
Location
Behind the curtains, leering at the neighbors
Just out of curiosity, how does people rate our current squad. There are about a million Ole threads already where people are barking at each other, but the squad is almost never talked about

DDG: Good goalkeeper, has not been himself since the WC. I know this might piss people off, but i would have no problem with getting rid of him now while his stock is still high. Hes a great shot stopper on his day, but his work in the box and his kicking leaves a lot to be desired. Henderson who is at loan at Sheffield is topping the clean sheet table this tear and looks a proper talent
AWB: Is tied with Ndidi for most tackles in Europe, but creates much fewer fouls. Amazing defender, but need to improve his attacking skills
Lindelof: Hes alright, but not really good enough to be a first choice CB in the PL for a top 4 club. Loses too many duels vs strong players and his aerial capabilities are just not very good.
Baily/Jones/Rojo: They cant be relied on. Too rash, and when they do finally manage to establish themselves, get some games under their belt and find some form, they get injured
Maguire: Not world class, but still the best CB we have by a mile and hes young which is good. Bloody expensive though
Sir Ashley Young III: Model professional, but hes just too old now. The fact that he has played this much up until now and managed to avoid injury is just miraculous
Dalot: Shows promise at times, but is too rash. Might turn into a decent player one day
Shaw: I have always rooted for him, but hes always just a gust of wind away from another major injury. I dont think his body can handle it
Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Williams: Young promising players, but its too early to tell if they will make it. Williams is looking excellent so far though

Pogba: Great player when he wants to
Mata: Same as young
Lingard: Not good enough. Honestly i cant think of a single PL team he would be starting games for
Pereira: Not PL quality at all, slow, lightweight, mediocre technique. Turkish league seems like his level
Fred: Hes looked better recently, but thats a low bar to clear. Would be thrilled if he turns out to be decent after all, but i am not holding by breath
James: Looks like a steal at 15 million. Lightning pace, good vision and a surprisingly good foot on him. Solid player
Matic: Looks like hes wearing cinder blocks on his feet and not shoes. Lost his legs
Gomes/Garner: Has looked alright when i've seen them, way too early to tell
Scott: With Pogba injured hes been our outstanding midfielder this year which is both great and terrifying at the same time. Amazing attitude and drive although a bit rough around the edges and a bit naive in possession at times. Under Fergie, he would be the kind of promising youngster that got his chances against smaller sides in cup ties and hes now our main man in midfield

Rashford: If he keeps his form up he will tripple his output this year. If we are going to single out one player that has improved under Ole, its him
Martial: Amazing at times and is vital to our attacking line up right now. I do think he tends to go missing too much though
Greenwood: Hes a special talent. 4 goals and 1 assists in 4 games at 18 is great. If anyone is going to make it big time, it him
Chong: Has looked completely out of his depth every time hes played for the first team

Top 4 quality: DDG(Henderson), AWB, Maguire, Pogba, Rashford, Martial
Young and promising: Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Williams, James, McTomminay, Greenwood,

Squad players: Lindelof, Gomes, Garner, Dalot, Fred(maybe)

Not good enough/too old: Baily, Jones, Rojo, Young, Shaw, Mata, Pereira, Matic, Chong

When everyone is fit, out attacking line up is quite good, but lack depth, we do lack at least 2 midfielders though and preferably we should get a better CB than Lindelof

In: 1 CF, 2 CM's, 1 CB. And not squad option ones. We need quality first team players, then promote some more kids
Out: Baily, Jones, Rojo, Young, Shaw, Mata, Pereira, Matic, Chong
 

OhGee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
101
He allowed Herrera to go despite all evidence pointing to the fact he was offered a contract. The whole situation was handled poorly but I wouldn't blame Ole for that, that one lies solely on whomever is responsible for extending contracts. Ole obviously knew we needed a midfielder hence the enquiry on Erickson. But we have to question whether potential deals didn't happen during the window or there was no attampts to sign anyone. We can't tell but I find hard to believe that he was happy with what he got in the window
He mentions time and time again that he has full control over all transfers so either he is lying and playing Ed’s/Glazers puppet ( which I think is the case) or he is telling the truth. Both instances does not sit well with me...
 

cyril C

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
1,176
there is absolutely no depth or balance to the squad. This is not Ole's fault.

We've had numerous managers, the shape of the squad hasn't been great.

Oh... wow Williams...

Oh.. wow Greenwood
No depth. While I don't blame Ole on Sanchez, but what about Lukaku? Can't fit into his system? What about Smalling? We get rid of Smalling only to keep Jones an d Rojo. LVG and Mourinho created part of the squad problem, but Ole inherited a decent squad last season, and the club still allowed him to recruit a CB.
 

Figgins

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
141
No depth. While I don't blame Ole on Sanchez, but what about Lukaku? Can't fit into his system? What about Smalling? We get rid of Smalling only to keep Jones an d Rojo. LVG and Mourinho created part of the squad problem, but Ole inherited a decent squad last season, and the club still allowed him to recruit a CB.
I'm not sure what you mean by decent when the squad had and has no depth of quality.

Smalling, Jones and Rojo. What about Smalling? Yes, we allow Smalling to go on loan, what of it? Are you implying retaining Smalling would be better than playing Ole's intended starting line up and that Smalling didn't or hasn't had a say in the loan move because of limited opportunities? Are you also suggesting Jones and Rojo are easily moved on?

What about Lukaku? I make the same statement as Smalling, are you saying Lukaku didn't have a say in moving, United's play would have been better with him or you/he would have been happy with him being a bench warmer? That said, isn't your LVG and Mourinho creating a squad problem conflicting with a suggestion of blame about Lukaku and decent squad.
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
654
I'm not sure what you mean by decent when the squad had and has no depth of quality.

Smalling, Jones and Rojo. What about Smalling? Yes, we allow Smalling to go on loan, what of it? Are you implying retaining Smalling would be better than playing Ole's intended starting line up and that Smalling didn't or hasn't had a say in the loan move because of limited opportunities? Are you also suggesting Jones and Rojo are easily moved on?

What about Lukaku? I make the same statement as Smalling, are you saying Lukaku didn't have a say in moving, United's play would have been better with him or you/he would have been happy with him being a bench warmer? That said, isn't your LVG and Mourinho creating a squad problem conflicting with a suggestion of blame about Lukaku and decent squad.
Smalling, despite his on the ball weaknesses is a much better player than Lindelof. He just had an average season last season but his athleticism is the perfect tonic to Maguire's major weakness - lack of pace. It's not like we are now amazing in building up from the back now that Smalling is gone.

Lukaku I feel was handled badly from both sides. The player should have done better with his weight issues whilst Ole could have been more accommodating and appreciative of some of the important goals he got for us. I imagine we missed a trick in timing when we sold Lukaku whilst buying James, if we had kept him considering the player James has become I think Lukaku would have scored more for us. James is the player Mourinho was looking for when he wanted Perisic, a traditional wide man that would have put so many chances on the plate for Lukaku.
 

Figgins

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
141
Smalling, despite his on the ball weaknesses is a much better player than Lindelof. He just had an average season last season but his athleticism is the perfect tonic to Maguire's major weakness - lack of pace. It's not like we are now amazing in building up from the back now that Smalling is gone.

Lukaku I feel was handled badly from both sides. The player should have done better with his weight issues whilst Ole could have been more accommodating and appreciative of some of the important goals he got for us. I imagine we missed a trick in timing when we sold Lukaku whilst buying James, if we had kept him considering the player James has become I think Lukaku would have scored more for us. James is the player Mourinho was looking for when he wanted Perisic, a traditional wide man that would have put so many chances on the plate for Lukaku.
If Smalling was as good, athletic/injury free as you suggest, in future plans and willing to be a team player would he still be at united?

Lukaku; are you suggesting that Lukaku was/is united quality or a united type player? Yes we miss his goals, we also miss some of Fellanis goals. Should we have kept him as well?
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
654
If Smalling was as good, athletic/injury free as you suggest, in future plans and willing to be a team player would he still be at united?

Lukaku; are you suggesting that Lukaku was/is united quality or a united type player? Yes we miss his goals, we also miss some of Fellanis goals. Should we have kept him as well?
You build a team in stages, improving incrementally until you reach your ultimate goal. The question is would Smalling and Lukaku have been helpful this season and are we worse off for not having them? Its neither here nor there but sometimes you have to tolerate some of the things you find unacceptable until you are in a stronger position to act.
 

Figgins

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
141
You build a team in stages, improving incrementally until you reach your ultimate goal. The question is would Smalling and Lukaku have been helpful this season and are we worse off for not having them? Its neither here nor there but sometimes you have to tolerate some of the things you find unacceptable until you are in a stronger position to act.
Who has to tolerate some things? the fans, a player, the manager, the club? Is your "tolerate" simplistic? Are you essentially saying, lets keep a player against their will, against the managers vision, against the clubs vision, who fans aren't concerned about.. just in case?
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
654
Who has to tolerate some things? the fans, a player, the manager, the club? Is your "tolerate" simplistic? Are you essentially saying, lets keep a player against their will, against the managers vision, against the clubs vision, who fans aren't concerned about.. just in case?
The manager, we the fans and the club. Do you actually think when Fergie was winning he always had the ideal eleven or squad but some players you keep for a little longer until you are in a position to get better.

All I am saying is that Lukaku and Smalling could have contributed to the team and have us in a better position.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
4,862
Location
Ireland
Look at how losing Laporte and Kompany has affected City this season, a squad far superior to our own and a manager considered by most to be a genius.

Players matter, and our squad has some glaring holes that are plain to see whenever any player is unavailable.
True, We need players in January, no matter who the manger is.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
3,765
I have no problems with people who say our squad is not good enough to win trophies. I absolutely agree with them.
What I do have issues is that they or most say our midfield is the worst yet Ole is forgiven for not improving the squad. He could have bought any midfield player and improved the squad and yet he didn't.
 

MaxiPaxi

Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
14,646
That's a decent team out there today, anyone who says otherwise should perhaps choose a new sport to follow. Football doesn't agree with you.

Fred has 32 appearances in the CL for most which came for a respectable team.

Andreas has 118 senior appearances for Valencia, United and Granada. Is he good enough for United or who we aspire to be? Probably not but I could see him playing in La Liga for a mid table side.

Mata, whilst obviously past his peak, is still experienced player who would be fine if we played him more often and utilised him to suit his game. The fact that we like to break at lighting speed, doesn't mean that he's suddenly shit, it means he doesn't really suit our style of play.

Williams is a young buck who had a tough game last week but then scored a cracking goal and theres clearly talent there.

Everyone else in that team is international quality and good enough to challenge for top 4.
 
Last edited:

stevecoppell

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
82
This not a myth. This is the worst set of players Utd had since the early 70s. No coach will do better.
 

Florida Man

Cartoon expert and crap superhero
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
10,650
Location
Florida, man
This not a myth. This is the worst set of players Utd had since the early 70s. No coach will do better.
They should be good enough to be coached properly. Take for example some mid table Argentinian club. They don't have the quality level of a top 4 English side. But they at least are good enough to play something that resembles coherent football. If it matters, I found some random highlights. That alone looks more coherent that what I watched today.

 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
3,663
I'm not sure what you mean by decent when the squad had and has no depth of quality.

Smalling, Jones and Rojo. What about Smalling? Yes, we allow Smalling to go on loan, what of it? Are you implying retaining Smalling would be better than playing Ole's intended starting line up and that Smalling didn't or hasn't had a say in the loan move because of limited opportunities? Are you also suggesting Jones and Rojo are easily moved on?

What about Lukaku? I make the same statement as Smalling, are you saying Lukaku didn't have a say in moving, United's play would have been better with him or you/he would have been happy with him being a bench warmer? That said, isn't your LVG and Mourinho creating a squad problem conflicting with a suggestion of blame about Lukaku and decent squad.
Woodward wouldn’t allow Mourinho to sign another CB because he had signed two already and we had 5 CB. In that season Phil Jones’ contract was coming to an end. He had a poor injury record and hadn’t been a regular for years. So why then was his contract extended for 4 years? Because of that decision we cant get rid of the worse CB of the 5 we had.

Then a year later the next manager is allowed to buy a CB for a world record price, and a target of the previous manager. We then have too many CBs in the squad again. Because no one wants Jones or Rojo we have to loan out our third best CB in Smalling leaving us an injury away from having to use our worst CB.

All the planning and organisation above the manager is a mess. Nothing changes whilst Woodward and Judge are in charge.
 

Leftback99

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
4,930
They should be good enough to be coached properly. Take for example some mid table Argentinian club. They don't have the quality level of a top 4 English side. But they at least are good enough to play something that resembles coherent football. If it matters, I found some random highlights. That alone looks more coherent that what I watched today.

Key word. Watch every 90 mins from the PL this weekend instead, there will be plenty of poor quality football like we produced today.
 

MaxiPaxi

Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
14,646
Key word. Watch every 90 mins from the PL this weekend instead, there will be plenty of poor quality football like we produced today.
So its okay now then? Its acceptable to see this since PSG last season?
 

Florida Man

Cartoon expert and crap superhero
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
10,650
Location
Florida, man
Key word. Watch every 90 mins from the PL this weekend instead, there will be plenty of poor quality football like we produced today.
I put highlights because I doubt anyone is going to watch a full 90 minutes posted here. I don't disagree about the poor quality football but that doesn't exactly refute my point. In fact, it's almost saying that our football is on par with the poor teams. And I would argue that what those teams and us have in common is poor coaching in addition to mediocre players. A top manager would at least get better results and gameplay from those same poor clubs, despite the players.
 

Leftback99

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
4,930
So its okay now then? Its acceptable to see this since PSG last season?
Today was poor, no one has said otherwise. People don't seem to realise that when you have a mid table level team on the pitch (with starters like Pereira, Mata, Lindelof, WIlliams) you get mid table level football, this is what it looks like if you ever watch other games in the PL. It's not like the match of the day 'highlights'.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
755
Woodward wouldn’t allow Mourinho to sign another CB because he had signed two already and we had 5 CB. In that season Phil Jones’ contract was coming to an end. He had a poor injury record and hadn’t been a regular for years. So why then was his contract extended for 4 years? Because of that decision we cant get rid of the worse CB of the 5 we had.

Then a year later the next manager is allowed to buy a CB for a world record price, and a target of the previous manager. We then have too many CBs in the squad again. Because no one wants Jones or Rojo we have to loan out our third best CB in Smalling leaving us an injury away from having to use our worst CB.

All the planning and organisation above the manager is a mess. Nothing changes whilst Woodward and Judge are in charge.
Succinctly put. Shambolic decision-making coming straight from the top.
 
Last edited:

MaxiPaxi

Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
14,646
Today was poor, no one has said otherwise. People don't seem to realise that when you have a mid table level team on the pitch (with starters like Pereira, Mata, Lindelof, WIlliams) you get mid table level football, this is what it looks like if you ever watch other games in the PL. It's not like the match of the day 'highlights'.
I don't agree that Lindelof and Mata are mid table players. Both are good enough to challenge for top 4. Mata isn't utilised at all. The game passes him by because we stick it out wide and drill the ball across the box, put a cross in or hope for individual brilliance, tactics like that totally render him useless. He's our most experienced and intelligent attacker and should be the fulcrum that all our play goes through. Lindelof has improved dramatically over the past year. Yes, he's suspect in the air but as a defender he's absolutely fine in my opinion. Agreed on other two. It still doesn't excuse how poor we've been for best part of 6 months of football.
 

Leftback99

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
4,930
I don't agree that Lindelof and Mata are mid table players. Both are good enough to challenge for top 4. Mata isn't utilised at all. The game passes him by because we stick it out wide and drill the ball across the box, put a cross in or hope for individual brilliance, tactics like that totally render him useless. He's our most experienced and intelligent attacker and should be the fulcrum that all our play goes through. Lindelof has improved dramatically over the past year. Yes, he's suspect in the air but as a defender he's absolutely fine in my opinion. Agreed on other two. It still doesn't excuse how poor we've been for best part of 6 months of football.
Sorry, but you lost me at Mata is good enough for top 4. We'll never agree on the quality of this squad if that's the level. He'd be nowhere near a starter for the top 6 including Leicester.

I hadn't realised that Villa had spent over £130m in the summer. That's on top of having McGinn and Grealish who are £50m players themselves in midfield. These teams aren't pushovers anymore.

For me we've got Rashford, Martial, James (from the Championship like Villa) Maguire and AWB. That's all of our quality above mid table level at the moment, it's not enough.

I expected win today but didn't think there would be much in it.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
700
The thesis that Ole is up to the job but doesn’t have adequate players to realize the squad’s full potential is one I don’t agree with.

It’s beyond all reasonable debate now that we need to upgrade the manager, but we also undoubtedly need to upgrade the squad as well. I can accept the prospect of Ole serving out the rest of the season only if the summer brings us a manager of the highest pedigree. Ideally, that manager would be brought on in January but as I understand it he would like to take a full season off to recharge the batteries and learn English. Fine.

But we all know we have squad quality issues. Another CB to partner with Maguire would be a good start, though not the highest priority. The highest priority is to rebuild the midfield, either with or without Pogba. And a RW. If all that costs us 300m, so be it. We have suffered long enough.
 

Denis79

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
3,728
This not a myth. This is the worst set of players Utd had since the early 70s. No coach will do better.
I still support Ole but I disagree with you. What you just wrote indicates that managers have no impact on football at all.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
8,500
That's a decent team out there today, anyone who says otherwise should perhaps choose a new sport to follow. Football doesn't agree with you.

Fred has 32 appearances in the CL for most which came for a respectable team.

Andreas has 118 senior appearances for Valencia, United and Granada. Is he good enough for United or who we aspire to be? Probably not but I could see him playing in La Liga for a mid table side.

Mata, whilst obviously past his peak, is still experienced player who would be fine if we played him more often and utilised him to suit his game. The fact that we like to break at lighting speed, doesn't mean that he's suddenly shit, it means he doesn't really suit our style of play.

Williams is a young buck who had a tough game last week but then scored a cracking goal and theres clearly talent there.

Everyone else in that team is international quality and good enough to challenge for top 4.
I'm not here defending Ole from what is absolutely just criticism, but I do take issue with a few of those points. Fred is probably universally questioned as a 52m worth player. Since joining United he is not rated at all. Pereira we all know is not a midfielder, like Rio Ferdinand was not a left winger.

Mata in front of those two is asking for trouble. You can isolate individual players and evaluate their skills and ability, but a team needs to be put together effectively and pragmatically. And Mata would hardly command the wages he earns here elsewhere these days. All good examples of players who are not good enough. With the former two, another element comes into it. Not every player can handle the pressure at a club with huge expectations. So they might be better than some random player in an average side, but not really show it for their bigger club. That's happened a lot at United. So, again, Ole is right in describing character as a key attribute we should look for, as we simply don't have it.

But I agree in the general sense, this team can play way better and look miles more purposeful under a manager who knows how to coach and manage the players.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
3,663
I want Ole out the quality of the midfield and forwards is dire.

Our midfield options today were Matic, Pereira, Fred and Mata. There is nothing in that midfield. It’s awful.

In attack we have three inconsistent youngsters. And for me Martial has now been given the opportunity as a striker and he isn’t exactly flourishing. He’s 24 this month. I’m getting to the point where I think he just not as good as everyone thinks. The MOTD analysis shows him once again not moving to create space and he’s never in the box when crosses come in. Movement like that is instinctive in top class strikers, it’s very difficult to teach that.
 

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
1,526
Seeing players like AWB, Rashford, Martial, James, Greenwood with so much potential and playing in such a disjointed team I would say its more the players dont have a manager to work with.

They are clearly underperforming, they have a way higher potential that what they are offering at the moment.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
1,125
He mentions time and time again that he has full control over all transfers so either he is lying and playing Ed’s/Glazers puppet ( which I think is the case) or he is telling the truth. Both instances does not sit well with me...
/This.

Time for the OgS apologists to decide. If iGS isn’t in charge of transfers & is a puppet; he gets no credit for the likes of Sanchez, Lukaku leaving whilst also can’t be blamed for the lack of incomings.

If he is as he states in charge of transfers he must take full responsibility for not plugging glaring gaps in the summer.

When we went into freefall last season he was telling us he knew what we needed & how players that left would be replaced - the man is clueless.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
3,765
Most of the Ole in brigade keep saying that our midfield is the worst in the PL. Then why on Earth did not Ole go and buy just about any midfield player who is better than what we have? Either we have or we do not have? Why did he want Maguire, when he could have had Tielemans( A good midfield player) and Soyuncu for a total of 64 million? That is still 14 million less than what we paid for Maguire. Both are playing much better than Maguire is playing for us.