“Lazy criticism” and “fellow sensible posters”....so if you don’t blindly support Ole or have faith in his long term suitability for the club (because let’s face it, he’s achieved nothing comparatively relevant as a manager in the game to give us faith)....all criticism are automatically lazy and the posters aren’t sensible? Righto.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
Klopp had already proven he could turn a mediocre Dortmund into the best team in germany and one of the best in world while being hamstrung financially and did well against adversity. He had a CV and was rated as one the best managers in the world. At last half of the caf wanted him to succeed Saf.
Ole does not have a CV in top flight football. His previous PL experience is doing a terrible job with Cardiff. Klopp is showing that trust in him was merited.
Ole was a nothing manager before coming here. He's a player legend meant to be a interim manager.
If we are going to keep comparing every manager to Saf and Klopp, then we might as well have let Moyes seen out his 6 year contract.
If Ole can improve our results and finish 4th or 5th, I think he maybe merits another season, but if much better and more proven managers are avaible I don't see any reason why not going for them if they suit our vision.
I really expected more from OP to start a thread to defend Ole.
Criticising the manager is fine - for example I thought Ole managed the Watford game poorly. Should have started Pogba and Greenwood and his subs were poor
However, the “lazy” criticisms I’m fed up of hearing where the ones I highlighted in the OP
I’m sick of hearing about Jose, I’m sick of fans talking about “coaching” as if they have the first clue what’s going on behind the scenes and I’m sick of the notion that people like me support Ole because he played for us once
It’s not a thread to defend Ole, we have loads of those
It’s a thread to reject some of the lazier arguments i.e. the idea that we support Ole because he played for us once
How about Pep? Barely scraping 4th with footballs most expensive squad?
You think this place would have been an oasis of calm and reasoned logic?
I will only ask you about the first point.
One simple question
would you give Kåre Ingebritsen time to manage Manchetser united?
One simple question
would you give Kåre Ingebritsen time to manage Manchetser united?
The problem for me is when when we play well it looks very very good and you can see what Ole is trying to achieve, however when we play poorly it is more to do with player effort than anything the manager is doing. We all know who they are but some of our players like to coast through games and sometimes only wake up in the last 15 or so minutes. Ole cant do anything about that, as Moaninho couldnt either.
There are still players that need to be cut loose. Changing the manager wont change that. No manager is going to come in and suddenly those players will change their ways, weve seen the proof of that already.
There are still players that need to be cut loose. Changing the manager wont change that. No manager is going to come in and suddenly those players will change their ways, weve seen the proof of that already.
Again, his tactical influence on the team was very clear and the issue was that he had the likes of Clichy and Sagna as starters who at the time were pretty much semi retired. Pep also had a very solid track record. Ole has been coaching the team for a full year and I have no idea about what he is able to actually do well, we don't really play like a team and our results are pretty poor.
Your OP didn't help your case at all if this is your intention.
We've beaten teams better than us and lost to teams worser than us. We're not better than the teams we won against and not worse than teams we lost against. The truth is somewhere in the middle . Without giving time we will never find out. If we could add couple of quality players then we keep the record against the top while overcoming teams below us that would show progress better. I'm prepared to wait a little longer.
There are talks of him being sacked as well. But I think him presiding over City's 2 best domestic seasons of all time means that he has more merit to stay.
Comparing Klopp and Pep ( serial winner and top coaches in the world) with our in championship level manager Ole. Oh gosh....
This is the way I see it. Leicester have a better chance of winning the title a second time before we win it again. That’s because their owner cares about football. We can sack Ole and bring in Poch but nothing will change. We still don’t have a DoF. We will still scramble in the transfer Windows because Woodword and his sidekick can’t walk and talk at the same time. We’ll still have players that have no business being here. I concede this job could be more than Ole can handle with no other changes in place but I think that applies to any manager. It applied to LVG and Jose. Those two just had the ability to paper over the cracks somewhat due to their experience. we can see what Ole wants to transform the squad into. I think he should be given support in this January window. Let Matic and Rojo go if they can be sold. Bring in Haaland if the fee is reasonable. If we don’t finish the season in a better position then maybe it’s time to look elsewhere. However, if the owners are going to put the same restraints on the next manager and not appoint a DoF then what is the point?
So Leicester, Wolves and Sheffield, who are all currently above us, have got better squads and players than us?
That's great. For somebody who's accusing others of throwing old lazy tired cliches, you sure like throwing around old lazy tired cliches yourself.
I am an "Ole in" myself, but this post is one of the laziest attempts of defending him. Especially this point
There is no logic, no argument, nothing whatsoever can come from that point. I would say Ole himself may be embarrassed to be defended like that.
Yes
You have to stop thinking of “better” in such a linear way. We arguably have 6/7 “better” individuals than the likes of Wolves/Leicester but collectively they are better. They have round pegs in round holes and a squad who’s players complement each other’s strengths and mitigate each others weaknesses
Our squad is a mess, inexperienced players, no proper forwards, no proper #10s, only really one proper winger. That’s even before you get into the actual debate about the ability of the players
The logic is most of us accepted at the start of the season that this would be a struggle....so now that it is a struggle why should we change our minds about the worthiness of the project?
It literally says that in the OP....
A “proper” defence of Ole would focus on the chaotic mess he inherited, only having one window etc....
There is no issue with the project, the issue is about who should be piloting this project. The reality is that in football, you don't need to have the best players to play like a team, we don't look like a team and the current manager doesn't have a track record at a good level. So logically people aren't particularly eager to be attached to him for three seasons.
I would still back him but it is most frustrating to beat the good teams and then fail miserably against the bottom team.
The one good thing is he is trying to change a toxic culture that dominated since Moyes was hired. Buying all these players who either turned out shit or did not want to be here.
The one good thing is he is trying to change a toxic culture that dominated since Moyes was hired. Buying all these players who either turned out shit or did not want to be here.
Any idea why they might be better collectively?
Inexperienced players? We've got CL winner, PL winners, WC winner. No proper forwards? What is a proper forward? A big tall lad who plays a target man role? I don't think Vardy is that either and it doesn't stop Leicester from being 2nd with him being the top scorer. No proven goalscorer? It was Ole's idea to get rid of Lukaku (rightfully or wrongfully) because we've got Tony and Rashy to take his place. No proper #10? Sure, I won't even have to drop into 'can Pogba play as a #10' debate. Instead, why don't we play without a #10 if we don't have one? One proper winger? If we're insisting with playing a #10 then a 'proper winger' is not exactly what we should be aiming for.
And yes, that's even before you get into the actual debate about the ability of the players and of the manager.
It's a bit early to call that one. I think OGS recruitmens wants to be here, but our defense really isn't that impressive considering the money spent. James has been good for his pricetag. But I agree it's better than buying players who are past it or nearly past it.
We could be in relegation battle but:
"Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys."
And need to readjust our expectations for this season.
Hmm... no point continue in this argument any further.
"Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys."
And need to readjust our expectations for this season.
Hmm... no point continue in this argument any further.
OP makes up imaginary opposing views for him to easily counter and still fails to counter them. Well done.
There's arguments for both points, I did not want ole as permanent manager, I still think the board went early on giving him a 3 year deal.
Only thing is he's got it, and needs to be given a fair crack, we've seen the others fail, Jose was the one? I didn't realy fancy him iether but he is a top coach but going backwards.
We need another 2 Windows and time for some of the young ones to progress, if it's Ole that's here we have to back him. Results are still needed though and being unable to break down the lower so called sides is a issue.
Pressure will tell on board if it's given to them , and they will sack him.
What happens then? New manager new ideas new players etc etc, then another 5 seasons later could still be in the same boat. Patience and time will tell if ole is the right guy?
Only thing is he's got it, and needs to be given a fair crack, we've seen the others fail, Jose was the one? I didn't realy fancy him iether but he is a top coach but going backwards.
We need another 2 Windows and time for some of the young ones to progress, if it's Ole that's here we have to back him. Results are still needed though and being unable to break down the lower so called sides is a issue.
Pressure will tell on board if it's given to them , and they will sack him.
What happens then? New manager new ideas new players etc etc, then another 5 seasons later could still be in the same boat. Patience and time will tell if ole is the right guy?
Imaginary? You should see my Twitter!
Never been a fan of the whole in/out brigade nonsense is it only serves to create a divide between the forum.
I honestly don't see what there is to gain from threads such as this one, other than to act as fuel for that divide.
I honestly don't see what there is to gain from threads such as this one, other than to act as fuel for that divide.
I am sure we would be doing better had we given Moyes 6-7 years. He would have us around 6th-7th in my opinion. Maybe we shall bring him back?
Totally different. Had no plan, no vision, no ideas and looked beaten
But actually......yeah I do believe had we stuck with a manager for 6yrs post SAF we would be better off than we are right now yes.
I have never heard such idiocy about Ole. He is having a dream. He has a plan. Of course he has a dream of winning everything with United. Every manager at United has that dream.
Unfortunately the reality is very different. We had the best manager in the PL and he did struggle occasionally to win trophies in England.
In fact he struggled a lot in Europe. He had much better players and had the winning mentality as a manager and the track record of winning trophies. Players wanted to come to United knowing that they would be coached by one of the best managers in the world and they would win trophies.
But Ole has none of that. He is not a top or even a medium class manager. He is an incompetent manager who can't even coach a decent side. He has no track record of winning any major trophies. United under him is a mid table club.
If SAF cannot beat top class managers to win the CL what chance does Ole have in winning the PL?
Unfortunately the reality is very different. We had the best manager in the PL and he did struggle occasionally to win trophies in England.
In fact he struggled a lot in Europe. He had much better players and had the winning mentality as a manager and the track record of winning trophies. Players wanted to come to United knowing that they would be coached by one of the best managers in the world and they would win trophies.
But Ole has none of that. He is not a top or even a medium class manager. He is an incompetent manager who can't even coach a decent side. He has no track record of winning any major trophies. United under him is a mid table club.
If SAF cannot beat top class managers to win the CL what chance does Ole have in winning the PL?
You see, here you have your answer. A lot of people think that this applies to Ole too.
There are several different levels of struggling. We can be position 5,6,7,8,9,10 or fighting a relegation battle, all can be considered "struggling" for Manchester United. Some are acceptable, some (like relegation battle for example) are not.
Ole is a United fan too and I trust that he didn't think we are sitting at 8th and break negative records after negative records is something "expected" and "reality".
But what am I doing? You "Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys. " anyway.
Precisely.
Wow. I'm starting to think you're wumming now. So what fecking vision is Ole showing us, examples please. What plan does he have for us? And did you not hear yesterday, he bloody wrapped his tits in for this season -- if that's not defeatist then I don't know what it. You're on a fecking wind up, and I'm not taking another thing you say seriously.
Ole has no plan against teams that don't play to our strengths. He looks as beaten and clueless as well. But just like Moyes he might come good if we give him more time. But does he merit that? There only thing that holds me against hiring Poch is that he is coming off is worst season ever and we have trend of hiring managers when they have hit their lowest lows. But disregarding this season, he has past track record of delivering what we are looking for. Consistently top 4 finishes and developing youth. I don't believe there aren't managers out there who can do what Ole is trying to do, but much better.
You did not do much good to your brigade by that effort in this thread.
Ole has absolutely no idea how to build an attack that is not a counter. That cannot be on the players. And it has been proven dozens of times already.
Ole has absolutely no idea how to build an attack that is not a counter. That cannot be on the players. And it has been proven dozens of times already.
What on earth is going on 
.
Also is this our future from now in this place? Posters hooked like leeches onto persona and start spinning one sided nonsense like followers in dictatorship countries? We already have one for Poch and he has zero connections with us.
For Moyes i dont remember much, had personal problems in the family so United was like a booster to bad days. LvG had some defenders but not like the type since JM and majority was always on the same page when it comes to his boring football.
Since JM, everything went tits up, we have United fans who are/were fans of JM before he even became a United manager, a guy we fought for PL titles and he won some and we didnt, i mean what the actual feck. During his period here, things turned even more crazy.
Now we have Ole a United legend as a player and after him, maybe, like i said above, we could have Poch and if that happens, there is already one person in a line, ready to take crazy on totally different level. Where is United in all of that, just boggles my mind.
.Also is this our future from now in this place? Posters hooked like leeches onto persona and start spinning one sided nonsense like followers in dictatorship countries? We already have one for Poch and he has zero connections with us.
For Moyes i dont remember much, had personal problems in the family so United was like a booster to bad days. LvG had some defenders but not like the type since JM and majority was always on the same page when it comes to his boring football.
Since JM, everything went tits up, we have United fans who are/were fans of JM before he even became a United manager, a guy we fought for PL titles and he won some and we didnt, i mean what the actual feck. During his period here, things turned even more crazy.
Now we have Ole a United legend as a player and after him, maybe, like i said above, we could have Poch and if that happens, there is already one person in a line, ready to take crazy on totally different level. Where is United in all of that, just boggles my mind.
Point 2
Biggest one that bugs me is when people conveniently forget how Ole has been hamstrung in the recruitment by Woodward.
Sanction Lukaku leaving sign no replacement
Sanction Sanchez leaving sign no replacement
Sanction Herrera being released sign no replacement
Sanction Fellaini being sold sign no replacement
4 first team players arguably with no replacements
Sanction Lukaku leaving sign no replacement
Sanction Sanchez leaving sign no replacement
Sanction Herrera being released sign no replacement
Sanction Fellaini being sold sign no replacement
4 first team players arguably with no replacements