The “Ole In” Brigade

NWRed

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I’m more or less convinced at this point that the fervent Ole ins are either on a wum, or have genuine mental stability issues. I’m fairly confident there’s a plan in place and he’ll be gone in the summer. They’re best off ignored until then.
No, we're just capable of remembering the past and taking a long term view.
 

NWRed

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Our results and style of play are honestly, the worst they’ve been post Fergie which is an absolutely damming indictment on Ole’s ability as a manager.
Our style of play was worse under all 3 previous managers.

With a better manager, we would have made a-lot more progress than Ole has made, I don’t see how that’s even debatable.
It's debatable because it's speculation. If we'd have kept hold of Lukaku and Sanchez we might be a bit further up the league, but we'd be further away from the squad we need in order to regain our position at the summit of English football.
 
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Son

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We claim them as failures because we used to have that high standard, if a manager didnt win IMPORTANT trophies such as the premier league or UCL then it was a failure, that used to be our standard. What we are seeing with Ole is beyond ridiculous but to argue that LVG and Mourinho werent failures because they won small time trophies such as the FA Cup or the Europa League is embarrasing.
Embarassing that we won trophies... Never heard that one before.

United winning a European trophy was brilliant under Mourinho because for a club our stature we always bottle it in Europe. FA Cups are never to be sniffed at either, they all count.
 

Sky1981

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Embarassing that we won trophies... Never heard that one before.

United winning a European trophy was brilliant under Mourinho because for a club our stature we always bottle it in Europe. FA Cups are never to be sniffed at either, they all count.
You must be new here, dig back a year 2nd is loser, EL is a tin mickey mouse cup.
 

Son

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You must be new here, dig back a year 2nd is loser, EL is a tin mickey mouse cup.
EL was the last trophy we needed in our collection so that win was sweet. I enjoyed that season.
 

meamth

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This.

Proper manager would assess, coy, fool lukaku thinking he has a future, only sell him when he's ready.

Same with smailing. Proper manager would identify that smailing would do the job and that 80m would benefit the whole sum more if invested on a midfielder and a winger. Instead of stupidly blaming the board for not giving him 500m for a new xi.

Proper manager would hire a better coach, who he not only trusted but worthy of the job instead of some feel good appointment that offers no fresh idea.

Proper manager should know exactly his own weakness and strengt. Saf knew exactly what his swot are. He hires the right man, not the yes man.

Proper manager would correctly assess the team isnt fit enough to sustain a high intensity football for 50 games. He should then instill a different approach tactically to cover for his team. Mourinho plays defensive football with less runs, less injury. Pep utilizes a collective approach to make his players run less. I dont watch too many liverpool but you bet klopp have a few secret in his sleeves.

Proper manager would ask how much they can spend, and optimized it to the best result.

Proper manager can afford a rebuild without having to tear up the whole place, court relegation and naively thinks it's gonna be alright year 3.

Proper manager stands on the technical area. Barking orders, cheering his players at the very least, esprit d''corp management 101, ole and his 2 stooges just sit slumped on the duggout. It shows that he has no new instructions even when chasing a goal, it means that he fixes nothing. Its ok if you're winning but for the love of god even if it's only for show get up there and crack some whip.
How do you know what is proper manager or not?

Amazing post.
 

meamth

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We're 8th? Our deadwoods are banging goals across the isle, the other deadwoods is going to be Serie A defender of the year contender. 25 in 35. 0 goals in the last 4 League games. worst start in 30 years. Should I go on?
I know that, but how do you know how a proper manager act on and off the field though?

Just because of the results?
 

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No, we're just capable of remembering the past and taking a long term view.
The past, that's it?

What in the past exactly?

If you're relying on the past for your long term view then that's dumb, because you'd have to go back as far as Sir Alex to find a manager who has managed to turn things around from a similar position to Ole, and we all know Ole isn't Sir Alex, nobody is, he was one of a kind.

The "past" since then suggests that no PL manager, or big club manager in Europe in general, has ever turned it around from a position like this. The evidence is overwhelmingly there from your "past" that shows Ole is done for. You can't even use the past as an feasible excuse, you're living in some fecking fantasy land where apparently giving a failing manager loads of time means they'll turn things around and become a success despite there being absolutely no evidence, past or present, to suggest that's the case!
 

meamth

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You tell me, you come here shitting on everyone's opinion, why dont you share us your wisdom?
Well I'm no professional manager I can't comment what Ole should do.

One thing is for sure, different manager, different style, off and on the pitch. What matters is the results.
 

Sky1981

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Of course it is.

I'm just questioning your detailed 8 - proper manager guidelines. The formula which, is so easy to understand, any manager should follow.
Off course they should follow, it's pretty fecking obvious, not paying 80M for a sideways upgrade, not shipping your main striker without a backup, not going in the season with bare bones midfielder.

Since you're so smart, you share your wisdom. If you're not, then stop barging in here pretending to be a wise man, while offering nothing but 1 liner.
 

izec

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Can't believe people argue with newbie posters on here. There will always be an Ole in guy. Just resist it until the sacking. I would have said lean back and enjoy the ride, but there isn't much to enjoy really, it is miserable.
 

Giggsyking

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Someone with Ole's CV managing Manchester fecking United is stupidest decision made by a football club ever. Even Moyse made more sense than this decision. He was proven in the PL and relegated a team despite signing 7 players. Why the feck would I give the guy who signed 7 players and relegated a team a job at the biggest football club in the world?
 

romufc

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Off course they should follow, it's pretty fecking obvious, not paying 80M for a sideways upgrade, not shipping your main striker without a backup, not going in the season with bare bones midfielder.

Since you're so smart, you share your wisdom. If you're not, then stop barging in here pretending to be a wise man, while offering nothing but 1 liner.
Maguire is not a sideways step to Smalling. Go watch 90 mins of Roma and you will see that Smalling makes more mistakes than you think he does.

From memory he was at fault for the goal last weekend, at fault for misjudging a header V Juve.

Lukaku was always going to score goals, it is your opinion that he is our main striker, go back to last year's threads to see what people felt about Lukaku.
 

ColvaleGoa

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Not gonna happen, but say off chance we beat Chelsea. What is going to be the verdict than? We are back? We are going to be in top 4? Ole in?
 

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Not gonna happen, but say off chance we beat Chelsea. What is going to be the verdict than? We are back? We are going to be in top 4? Ole in?
If you're still flip flopping off of one result, you don't deserve to have your opinion respected really. At this point I think the majority have made their mind up.
 

meamth

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Off course they should follow, it's pretty fecking obvious, not paying 80M for a sideways upgrade, not shipping your main striker without a backup, not going in the season with bare bones midfielder.

Since you're so smart, you share your wisdom. If you're not, then stop barging in here pretending to be a wise man, while offering nothing but 1 liner.
It's pretty obvious because we're in this state.

Remember the days when the caf demanded massive clear outs of the squad. Here we are, we got that wish.

I'm not smarter than anyone posting here, but I would avoid posting guidelines like an expert on how to be a good manager.
 

NWRed

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The past, that's it?

What in the past exactly?

If you're relying on the past for your long term view then that's dumb, because you'd have to go back as far as Sir Alex to find a manager who has managed to turn things around from a similar position to Ole, and we all know Ole isn't Sir Alex, nobody is, he was one of a kind.

The "past" since then suggests that no PL manager, or big club manager in Europe in general, has ever turned it around from a position like this. The evidence is overwhelmingly there from your "past" that shows Ole is done for. You can't even use the past as an feasible excuse, you're living in some fecking fantasy land where apparently giving a failing manager loads of time means they'll turn things around and become a success despite there being absolutely no evidence, past or present, to suggest that's the case!
The past meaning

1) The recent past of our club. Hiring managers with great track records but who don't understand the club didn't work and chopping and changing managers is always detrimental to long term aims.

2) The more distant past, the problems with the club are not new and the resolution is obvious, we need to completely revamp the squad, getting rid of the older highly paid underachieving players who are too comfortable with losing regularly and replacing them with young, hungry, talented players with the right mentality who can be moulded into a team. That is precisely what Ole is trying to do and currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term.
 

romufc

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Remember the days when the caf demanded massive clear outs of the squad. Here we are, we got that wish.
Yes, thank you. We have a clear out and now the caf wants the players back. Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Sanchez.

You need to clear out before you can build something. We are going into a summer where we do not need to shift players before bringing any in, that is so important.

If you look in the PL, not all clubs can say the same.

City - need to get rid of one winger / ST if they want another
Pool - Will need to get rid of one if they want a big name signing in the forward line.

We are in a unique position at the moment where whether it is Ole or a new man, it feels like a blank canvas.
 

InspiRED

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Can't believe people argue with newbie posters on here. There will always be an Ole in guy. Just resist it until the sacking. I would have said lean back and enjoy the ride, but there isn't much to enjoy really, it is miserable.
Lean back and withstand the ride :lol:
 

meamth

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Yes, thank you. We have a clear out and now the caf wants the players back. Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Sanchez.

You need to clear out before you can build something. We are going into a summer where we do not need to shift players before bringing any in, that is so important.

If you look in the PL, not all clubs can say the same.

City - need to get rid of one winger / ST if they want another
Pool - Will need to get rid of one if they want a big name signing in the forward line.

We are in a unique position at the moment where whether it is Ole or a new man, it feels like a blank canvas.
Funny how bad results can change what they want.

Before this season: Get rid of deadwood! I don't care!
After we're in bad position: Ole is stupid, they should sign players first before the clear outs!

We all agreed at one point this is a slow process, and here we are now, aborting this mission.
 

romufc

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Funny how bad results can change what they want.

Before this season: Get rid of deadwood! I don't care!
After we're in bad position: Ole is stupid, they should sign players first before the clear outs!

We all agreed at one point this is a slow process, and here we are now, aborting this mission.
I am as frustrated as any other fan on the results.

The thing I would say is, I am happier to finish 6th-8h and have a thin squad, having got rid of most of the deadwood so that we can go into a summer with players we know we want at this club.

I understand this process could have been painful with the key injuries it is alot more painful that I imagined it but we are where we are, we need to keep going. I still wouldnt have Lukaku, Smalling and the like in my team knowing we need to get rid.
 

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The past meaning

1) The recent past of our club. Hiring managers with great track records but who don't understand the club didn't work and chopping and changing managers is always detrimental to long term aims.

2) The more distant past, the problems with the club are not new and the resolution is obvious, we need to completely revamp the squad, getting rid of the older highly paid underachieving players who are too comfortable with losing regularly and replacing them with young, hungry, talented players with the right mentality who can be moulded into a team. That is precisely what Ole is trying to do and currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term.
No, sorry, hang on, you said the past shows that we need to take a long term view. But the past, Man Utd or not, shows that taking a long term view with a failing manager is a very bad idea.

I'm asking you what in the past suggests that giving loads more time to a manager who has a horrible return in results, performances, and overall play is a good idea? Has it worked at all for any other club? Do you really think Man Utd are so unique that giving a really average manager loads more time than any other club in this position would do will somehow break that trend?

"currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term."

For feck sake, 8th, 8th in the league, our worst points tally in the PL at this stage ever, behind Sheffield Utd and Everton, 10 wins in 30 games, and that should have no bearing on whether he's the right man? Not to mention that there's nothing Ole has done as a manager prior to being here that shows he's in any way cut out at a PL level, let alone at a club like Man Utd. It's just such an astonishing level of delusion that I can't actually get over it. When a manager like Poch is available who has proven himself capable of building really good sides, playing really good football, making betters much better and getting CL football and challenging for titles without much of a budget is available, and you are still clamming for a manager who got Cardiff relegated and had them 17th in the Championship, was in the Norweigan league because no other club would touch him, and now is performing arguably worse than any of our other post-SAF managers did, do you not start to think "hang on, maybe I'm being ridiculous because Ole's a club legend"?

If it wasn't Ole, and it was another manager without his ties to Utd performing like this, would you want to give them loads of time too?
 

meamth

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I am as frustrated as any other fan on the results.

The thing I would say is, I am happier to finish 6th-8h and have a thin squad, having got rid of most of the deadwood so that we can go into a summer with players we know we want at this club.

I understand this process could have been painful with the key injuries it is alot more painful that I imagined it but we are where we are, we need to keep going. I still wouldnt have Lukaku, Smalling and the like in my team knowing we need to get rid.
We're the same, mate.

Don't care if Ole in or out at this point, just want to see a fresh young team next season. Call us defeatist, or whatever, this rebuild has been a long time coming.
 

Wilt

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Not gonna happen, but say off chance we beat Chelsea. What is going to be the verdict than? We are back? We are going to be in top 4? Ole in?
It’s very possible we could beat Chelsea, they have a young team and their current form is not great. But beating Chelsea is not going to change much, perhaps just give Ole a little respite until the next dire performance which certainly won’t be far away. Too much damage has already been done.
 

romufc

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We're the same, mate.

Don't care if Ole in or out at this point, just want to see a fresh young team next season. Call us defeatist, or whatever, this rebuild has been a long time coming.
Agreed, finally we have go a deadwood. The fact is even if we had all the said players, we were in the same position last year outside the top 4 playing shit football.

I would rather give younger players a chance to see if they will be any better, we have seen the commitment from McTominay, Rash, Greenwood, Williams, Maguire, AWB and improvements to Fred which could form part of a base for the new manager to work with.

All the above players are able to play different styles of football.
 
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Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?
Well we were developing for the long term this time last year and we were 6th. We were developing for the long term 2 years ago and we were 2nd. I sense a trend here...

I will always back Ole for no other reason than I love him. Yes, it's like Geordies with Keegan and Scousers with Dalglish, I don't care though. Ole's been a favourite of mine since 1996 and nothing will change that, ever. Until the very end I will be hoping he succeeds. I don't understand people who call themselves United fans who want him to fail.
Nobody wants him to fail, people just see the writing on the wall. There's no evidence he will ever be up to the level of what a United manager should be. I'm all for backing the project when there is a clear plan in place, but with Ole it's nothing more than blind faith.

Keegan got Newcastle promoted and nearly won the Premier League title. Dalglish won Liverpool 3 league titles and won one for Blackburn too. They both actually had managerial credentials. Ole isn't comparable. It's the same as the Fergie comparisons, "well he started poorly" yeah, but he'd still won league and European trophies for Aberdeen (still the last time someone stopped Celtic/Rangers) Klopp is often compared to Ole, "he finished 8th in his first season" again, he'd taken Dortmund to successive Bundesliga titles (still the last time someone stopped Bayern) and a CL final. They both had credentials.

Anyone who is backing Ole at this point is showing blind faith. His record is unacceptable. Worse than Moyes, worse than LVG, worse than Mourinho. He is to us what Hodgson was to Liverpool.
 
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It’s very possible we could beat Chelsea, they have a young team and their current form is not great. But beating Chelsea is not going to change much, perhaps just give Ole a little respite until the next dire performance which certainly won’t be far away. Too much damage has already been done.
Maybe i'm a hopeless optimist, but maybe we can hope for a strong finish to the season?

With both Pogba and McTomminay returning and Bruno having trained with the team for more than a week it might transform our midfield. Dont get me wrong, Fred has been brilliant, but the supporting cast...not so much. Seeing as McTomminay and especially Pogba has played fairly little this season, they should have plenty of gas left in the tank for the run in when fatigue becomes and issue for everyone else

If you look at our stats this year it shows that pretty much every bit of creativity has come from the three up top. That means that pretty much anyone can just double mark our front three and pretty much all our attacking threat goes straight out the window. Pogba+Bruno creating chances, will mean other teams cant defend as easily against us as they have so far
 

b82REZ

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Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?
Because that displays regression, not progression. 2nd to 6th to 8th. Hardly screams a club moving in the right direction.
 

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No, sorry, hang on, you said the past shows that we need to take a long term view. But the past, Man Utd or not, shows that taking a long term view with a failing manager is a very bad idea.

I'm asking you what in the past suggests that giving loads more time to a manager who has a horrible return in results, performances, and overall play is a good idea? Has it worked at all for any other club? Do you really think Man Utd are so unique that giving a really average manager loads more time than any other club in this position would do will somehow break that trend?

"currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term."

For feck sake, 8th, 8th in the league, our worst points tally in the PL at this stage ever, behind Sheffield Utd and Everton, 10 wins in 30 games, and that should have no bearing on whether he's the right man? Not to mention that there's nothing Ole has done as a manager prior to being here that shows he's in any way cut out at a PL level, let alone at a club like Man Utd. It's just such an astonishing level of delusion that I can't actually get over it. When a manager like Poch is available who has proven himself capable of building really good sides, playing really good football, making betters much better and getting CL football and challenging for titles without much of a budget is available, and you are still clamming for a manager who got Cardiff relegated and had them 17th in the Championship, was in the Norweigan league because no other club would touch him, and now is performing arguably worse than any of our other post-SAF managers did, do you not start to think "hang on, maybe I'm being ridiculous because Ole's a club legend"?

If it wasn't Ole, and it was another manager without his ties to Utd performing like this, would you want to give them loads of time too?
Howard Kendall @ Everton, and Ron Saunders @ Villa, the fans at both clubs demanded their removal because of results/playing style, the owners ignored the fans, and within 18 months/2 years both of them had won the old Division One - not suggesting Ole will do the same, but ....
 

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Howard Kendall @ Everton, and Ron Saunders @ Villa, the fans at both clubs demanded their removal because of results/playing style, the owners ignored the fans, and within 18 months/2 years both of them had won the old Division One - not suggesting Ole will do the same, but ....
Anything from the last 20-25 years?
 

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Maybe i'm a hopeless optimist, but maybe we can hope for a strong finish to the season?

With both Pogba and McTomminay returning and Bruno having trained with the team for more than a week it might transform our midfield. Dont get me wrong, Fred has been brilliant, but the supporting cast...not so much. Seeing as McTomminay and especially Pogba has played fairly little this season, they should have plenty of gas left in the tank for the run in when fatigue becomes and issue for everyone else

If you look at our stats this year it shows that pretty much every bit of creativity has come from the three up top. That means that pretty much anyone can just double mark our front three and pretty much all our attacking threat goes straight out the window. Pogba+Bruno creating chances, will mean other teams cant defend as easily against us as they have so far
Our results were still just as bad with Pogba and McT both in the team, albeit there weren't many times they were, which means Bruno is supposed to be the missing link, a big ask.
 

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Our results were still just as bad with Pogba and McT both in the team, albeit there weren't many times they were, which means Bruno is supposed to be the missing link, a big ask.
I may be wrong here, but did not Pogba get injured after Soton? IIRC we got robbed blind by Palace in the 2nd game, got robbed by Wolves the 3rd game, and were admittedly pretty shit, but also got robbed by Soton when they managed to get 1-1 with 10 men