The “Ole In” Brigade

mu4c_20le

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Arsenal won loads of FA cups under Wenger.
Oh yeah, I was thinking more about their current state. I'm a big Wenger fan, and actually wanted him to step in when we sacked Jose. I thought Ole was a big risk even as caretaker and didn't really believe the rumours.
 

DFreshKing

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I would agree in terms of length of service, but 'time' isn't dished out without any kind of sign that the person deserves to be given it. Everything Ole is doing is below-par, and nothing suggests it's going to get any better either. What we're seeing right now, and have been since August, is exactly what we saw for a few months after Ole was made permanent last season.

That is with £200m worth of new players.

What evidence is there to suggest things will improve? If anything, the evidence all points towards this being The Norm now under this manager.
Do you get paid to put £200 Million on players in every post? Do you know how insanely stupid it is when £60 Million of that has played one fecking game? Add the context of English tax and utd tax and then realise he has bought 3 players to change a horror squad that had 8 leave and one shiny new boy. it's pathetic and boring, we can all read transfer news and reported prices.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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Yeah our squad is miles behind Wolves, Sheffield United, Leicester and Everton.
We can't possibly be expected to compete. Ole needs another 3 years. Maybe 4. And 28 new players. Then we'll finally see that he's been Sir Alex Klopp this entire time.
 
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"A Horror Squad".

Kin ell, he took over a squad that literally finished 2nd just 7 months before he took over :lol:

Overachievement or not, no horror squad, not even a poor squad ever made 2nd in any top league.
 

Andycoleno9

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Do you get paid to put £200 Million on players in every post? Do you know how insanely stupid it is when £60 Million of that has played one fecking game? Add the context of English tax and utd tax and then realise he has bought 3 players to change a horror squad that had 8 leave and one shiny new boy. it's pathetic and boring, we can all read transfer news and reported prices.
So; how that horror squad finished second and after failed Cardiff's manager magic touch is 8th with big chance being 14th after next five PL games?
 

Shamana

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"A Horror Squad".

Kin ell, he took over a squad that literally finished 2nd just 7 months before he took over :lol:

Overachievement or not, no horror squad, not even a poor squad ever made 2nd in any top league.
Wasn't is just around 4 months before?

But anyway I'm surprised our squad is even good enough to be in PL.
 

Bilbo

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It was and still is an incomplete squad. It's not being overly biased to say that. We lack creative players and because of this we have struggled to break down teams in a lot of matches.

If we'd had Pogba and/or Bruno in the team regularly we would certainly have a few more points than we have now.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Do you get paid to put £200 Million on players in every post? Do you know how insanely stupid it is when £60 Million of that has played one fecking game? Add the context of English tax and utd tax and then realise he has bought 3 players to change a horror squad that had 8 leave and one shiny new boy. it's pathetic and boring, we can all read transfer news and reported prices.
I was going to respond to the Horror Squad catastrophy but it appears many others also found it astounding. As you were lad.
 

romufc

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Thats just making excuses, all the times Ole gets compared with other managers the main argument is that the other manager has a better squad, no matter which team.
I have not said they have a better squad, I quite think we have a decent squad.

How is that excuses? surely you have watched football long enough to know consistency is key.

If you are playing a regular first 11 week in week out you are likely to be alot more consistent than when you are chopping and changing.

You must be very naive to think that it's an excuse. How many times this season has DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial played together and that will tell you why we are so bad.
 

Enigma_87

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I have not said they have a better squad, I quite think we have a decent squad.

How is that excuses? surely you have watched football long enough to know consistency is key.

If you are playing a regular first 11 week in week out you are likely to be alot more consistent than when you are chopping and changing.

You must be very naive to think that it's an excuse. How many times this season has DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial played together and that will tell you why we are so bad.
Didn't Chelsea have a lot of injuries themselves?

You can look up their team on opening day.

How much did they spent in the Summer, yet they are above us with an inexperienced manager and having equally bad injury rate?

Also the injuries are also down to the management. Since Ole took over our injury list exploded compared to previous seasons.
 

romufc

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Didn't Chelsea have a lot of injuries themselves?

You can look up their team on opening day.

How much did they spent in the Summer, yet they are above us with an inexperienced manager and having equally bad injury rate?

Also the injuries are also down to the management. Since Ole took over our injury list exploded compared to previous seasons.
Yes, that is why we are still in the race for top 4, because of their injuries and inconsistency. Surprise Surprise this has come about because they have had injuries.

They got Pulisic in for £50m and signed Kovavic for £40m. Currently we have 8 injuries and Chelsea 3. Equally as bad? What makes you say that?

Martial our main striker was injured for 3 months
Pogba our key player most of the season
Rashford our talisman 3 months
McT one of our players of the season out for 3 months

I won't even mention the rest.

Please enlighten me on how Chelsea have had equally as bad injuries?
 

Enigma_87

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Yes, that is why we are still in the race for top 4, because of their injuries and inconsistency. Surprise Surprise this has come about because they have had injuries.

They got Pulisic in for £50m and signed Kovavic for £40m. Currently we have 8 injuries and Chelsea 3. Equally as bad? What makes you say that?

Martial our main striker was injured for 3 months
Pogba our key player most of the season
Rashford our talisman 3 months
McT one of our players of the season out for 3 months

I won't even mention the rest.

Please enlighten me on how Chelsea have had equally as bad injuries?

Rudiger - their best defender played 45 mins up until 14th of December.
Kante - their best midfielder missed 8 games
Loftus Cheek - out for the season
CHO - missed the first 6 games.
Pulisic has played 45 mins since New year.
Barkley has missed half of the games through injury.
Reece James - half of the games.
Emerson - 7 games.
Christensen was also injured at some point.
Pedro - injured
Giroud - injured

I can go on.

For Pulisic and Kovacic they lost their best player in Hazard.

Do you really pay attention to other team problems or just use ours to excuse Ole's incompetence?
 

romufc

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Rudiger - their best defender played 45 mins up until 14th of December.
Kante - their best midfielder missed 8 games -
Loftus Cheek - out for the season -
CHO - missed the first 6 games.
Pulisic has played 45 mins since New year.
Barkley has missed half of the games through injury.
Reece James - half of the games.
Emerson - 7 games.
Christensen was also injured at some point.
Pedro - injured
Giroud - injured

I can go on.

For Pulisic and Kovacic they lost their best player in Hazard.

Do you really pay attention to other team problems or just use ours to excuse Ole's incompetence?
So out of the names mentioned, which of them are first choice? Chelseas team is Kepa, james, Tomori, Rudiger, Azpi, Kante, Jorghinho, Willian, Mount, CHO, Tammy.

That is what they start with alot of the times. Please check your records because Reece James has not been injured since Sep 11, 2019.

I pay attention to everyone in the league, looks like you don't because I can easily have mentioned players like Dalot, Tuanzebe, Jones, Matic, Fred, Lingard etc but I didn't you know why? because they are not first choice.

What does Hazard have to do with this? We lost players in the summer too. So it is 100% Ole's fault that our players are injured?

So it was Ole's fault when we had a bad injury period when LVG was here?
 

Enigma_87

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So out of the names mentioned, which of them are first choice? Chelseas team is Kepa, james, Tomori, Rudiger, Azpi, Kante, Jorghinho, Willian, Mount, CHO, Tammy.

That is what they start with alot of the times. Please check your records because Reece James has not been injured since Sep 11, 2019.

I pay attention to everyone in the league, looks like you don't because I can easily have mentioned players like Dalot, Tuanzebe, Jones, Matic, Fred, Lingard etc but I didn't you know why? because they are not first choice.

What does Hazard have to do with this? We lost players in the summer too. So it is 100% Ole's fault that our players are injured?

So it was Ole's fault when we had a bad injury period when LVG was here?
Seriously? He was injured for the beginning of the season and then eased into it. He is not thrown in the deep end like your beloved manager does with most of the players. He was on the bench and with the U23 til 19 October.

And you sure have to first check your facts before spouting anymore bollocks:

‘Reece James is out for a week or 10 days. He’s had a bit of a niggle around his ankle injury which he had surgery on in pre-season. That was a bit of a worry, but the doctors are saying at the moment he’ll be a week or so.

‘Alonso is similar. It’s the top of a glute muscle injury. They’re in a similar boat, not terrible injuries but obviously they’re missing a pretty crucial time.’
The above quote was from Lampard himself during Christmas season on the official website:
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2019/12/31/lampard-updates-on-injured-full-backs-and-looks-into-his-crystal


Next month against Newcastle he again received an injury causing him to miss the game against Arsenal:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10769685/chelsea-blow-reece-james-injury/


But we probably need to believe you instead?
 

romufc

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Seriously? He was injured for the beginning of the season and then eased into it. He is not thrown in the deep end like your beloved manager does with most of the players. He was on the bench and with the U23 til 19 October.

And you sure have to first check your facts before spouting anymore bollocks:


The above quote was from Lampard himself during Christmas season on the official website:
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2019/12/31/lampard-updates-on-injured-full-backs-and-looks-into-his-crystal


Next month against Newcastle he again received an injury causing him to miss the game against Arsenal:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10769685/chelsea-blow-reece-james-injury/


But we probably need to believe you instead?

So eased into it is the same as being injured? Didn't know that. Which players are thrown into the deep end?

He got injured and missed one game and recovered, that is hardly missing half the games is it?

Alot of players pick up knocks, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB have all picked up knocks and missed a couple of games here and there.

Missing 1/2 games is hardly a long term injury is it?

All I said was to have a entertaining play style is you need a consistent team, then you ended up bringing Chelsea's players that are not first team then realised you fecked up so start bringing knocks picked up by some players and players that have been sold?

Get a grip.
 

Enigma_87

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So eased into it is the same as being injured? Didn't know that. Which players are thrown into the deep end?

He got injured and missed one game and recovered, that is hardly missing half the games is it?

Alot of players pick up knocks, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB have all picked up knocks and missed a couple of games here and there.

Missing 1/2 games is hardly a long term injury is it?

All I said was to have a entertaining play style is you need a consistent team, then you ended up bringing Chelsea's players that are not first team then realised you fecked up so start bringing knocks picked up by some players and players that have been sold?

Get a grip.
He missed three games since December in PL, played 10 mins against Spurs and was on the bench against Bournemouth and Lampard explained the reason for it. He also missed the Hull game in the cup again through the same injury.

He had a ankle operation in the Summer hence - yes needs more time to rehabilitate and match practice.

You said he hasn't been injured since 11 September, now you spin it as long term injury?

Again will you keep spouting bollocks or admit you were wrong with your claim?
 

romufc

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He missed three games since December.

He had a ankle operation in the Summer hence - yes needs more time to rehabilitate and match practice.

You said he hasn't been injured since 11 September, now you spin it as long term injury?

Again will you keep spouting bollocks or admit you were wrong with your claim?
I wasn't wrong though was I? I have always maintained long term injuries, a couple of knocks here and there is part and parcel of the game, everyone expects that.

Hes missed 3 games since end of September too..

I am not wrong that a consistent team will peform better than a team of consistent injuries.

You can make claims that I am spouting bollocks, but at least I respond unlike you when being caught out on something. E.g. the players mentioned were not first team Chelsea payers, and the LVG injury record after you claimed our injury have become worse than previous seasons because of Ole.
 

Enigma_87

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I wasn't wrong though was I? I have always maintained long term injuries, a couple of knocks here and there is part and parcel of the game, everyone expects that.

Hes missed 3 games since end of September too..

I am not wrong that a consistent team will peform better than a team of consistent injuries.

You can make claims that I am spouting bollocks, but at least I respond unlike you when being caught out on something. E.g. the players mentioned were not first team Chelsea payers, and the LVG injury record after you claimed our injury have become worse than previous seasons because of Ole.
My initial quote was about Chelsea having many injuries - where was I talking about first team, rotational players and so forth? Was it wrong to say they have ton of injuries themselves?

Reece James played 1.357' minutes this season and Lampard has numerous times said he was having issues with his ankle - the one he was operated on - are you for real? Just admit you were wrong and move on, no point arguing with you..
 

romufc

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My initial quote was about Chelsea having many injuries - where was I talking about first team, rotational players and so forth? Was it wrong to say they have ton of injuries themselves?

Reece James played 1.357' minutes this season and Lampard has numerous times said he was having issues with his ankle - the one he was operated on - are you for real? Just admit you were wrong and move on, no point arguing with you..
Why would I admit I am wrong when you cannot accept the truth.

Please go have a look at most title winners. They have a team that plays regularly.

Liverpool this year - Have had injuries but most of their team plays week in week out
City - Same with them last year
City - Same with them year before
Chelsea - Same with them under Conte
Leicester - Same with them

Ofcourse they will get injuries through the season, but I doubt you will see a title winning team that has had injuries to their 4 / 5 main players for majority of the season.
 

Enigma_87

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Why would I admit I am wrong when you cannot accept the truth.

Please go have a look at most title winners. They have a team that plays regularly.

Liverpool this year - Have had injuries but most of their team plays week in week out
City - Same with them last year
City - Same with them year before
Chelsea - Same with them under Conte
Leicester - Same with them

Ofcourse they will get injuries through the season, but I doubt you will see a title winning team that has had injuries to their 4 / 5 main players for majority of the season.
What truth? :houllier:

What did I say from the off?

Chelsea had ton of injuries themselves:
1. Did I mention first team or something - yes or no?
2. Did Chelsea had ton of injuries - yes or no?

3. Did Reece James receive an injury after 11th of September, contrary to this claim?

That is what they start with alot of the times. Please check your records because Reece James has not been injured since Sep 11, 2019.
yes or no?

I don't care about who plays regularly or not, that was not my point from the off, which you are now trying to change the subject.
 

romufc

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What truth? :houllier:

What did I say from the off?

Chelsea had ton of injuries themselves:
1. Did I mention first team or something - yes or no?
2. Did Chelsea had ton of injuries - yes or no?

3. Did Reece James receive an injury after 11th of September, contrary to this claim?



yes or no?

I don't care about who plays regularly or not, that was not my point from the off, which you are now trying to change the subject.



have not said they have a better squad, I quite think we have a decent squad.

How is that excuses? surely you have watched football long enough to know consistency is key.

If you are playing a regular first 11 week in week out you are likely to be alot more consistent than when you are chopping and changing.

You must be very naive to think that it's an excuse. How many times this season has DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial played together and that will tell you why we are so bad.
This is the quote you responded to... so that was the point in the first instance, not my fault you are cannot respond to the point I was making rather than making your own silly points.

There was no point responding to me if you wanted to make a completely different point?
 

JG3001

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Funny how bad results can change what they want.

Before this season: Get rid of deadwood! I don't care!
After we're in bad position: Ole is stupid, they should sign players first before the clear outs!

We all agreed at one point this is a slow process, and here we are now, aborting this mission.
I’ve had this debate/argument before about getting rid of the deadwood. Couple things:

- You start by getting rid of the worst of the worst, the Lingard, Jones, Rojos of the team, not your better players.

- Deadwood still needs replacing (admittedly I don’t think this falls completely on Ole). Stripping the team bare bones was always going to be a disaster.

On a related note, and as pointed out by others on here, there is nothing to suggest Ole will be a success here. Almost relegating Cardiff twice in a row should be plenty evidence that this job is way out of his expertise.

Can’t believe people still argue for him in, change his name to David Moyes and people would be baying for blood. Forget the ability of the players for a moment, the guy is not what we need going forward. Far too many on here are too stubborn to admit that nostalgia is clouding their judgement
 

Enigma_87

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This is the quote you responded to... so that was the point in the first instance, not my fault you are cannot respond to the point I was making rather than making your own silly points.

There was no point responding to me if you wanted to make a completely different point?
and this was the post you responded to:

Thats just making excuses, all the times Ole gets compared with other managers the main argument is that the other manager has a better squad, no matter which team.
Where did that poster say first team?
 

Relevated

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It's so strange. Mourinho is judged by his meltdown and his other accomplishments are not taken into account yet he was a flop. But with the Ole in brigade they judge Ole based on their false hope that he will eventually succeed even though he has been so bad and achieved zilch.
 

Lentwood

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3 years? You have to draw the line somewhere. 3 years is fine if you're still on the cusp of achieving your goals, right now we're a million miles off! What if we finish 17th would you still want to allow 3 years? top 4 is the bare minimum (at least it should be for United). No CL, Ed will pull the trigger in May.
How many times since SAF have we achieved a top four finish? Twice?

It's this 'we're Man Utd' arrogance that's hurting the club. We are currently in a position that reflects the weakness of our squad, not the weakness (or strength) of our manager

Hence the reason I would say let's at the very leas let Ole get to January 2021....because by then the first XI at least should look more like his own
 

Shamana

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How many times since SAF have we achieved a top four finish? Twice?

It's this 'we're Man Utd' arrogance that's hurting the club. We are currently in a position that reflects the weakness of our squad, not the weakness (or strength) of our manager

Hence the reason I would say let's at the very leas let Ole get to January 2021....because by then the first XI at least should look more like his own
Ok so Ole get's a freepass for whatever happens on the pitch.

We've got a worse squad than Sheffield United, Wolves, Everton and Leicester then.
 

Enigma_87

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How many times since SAF have we achieved a top four finish? Twice?

It's this 'we're Man Utd' arrogance that's hurting the club. We are currently in a position that reflects the weakness of our squad, not the weakness (or strength) of our manager

Hence the reason I would say let's at the very leas let Ole get to January 2021....because by then the first XI at least should look more like his own
And how many managers we sacked as soon as they couldn't finish top 4 or get to CL?

Why should Ole be privileged, despite having worse CV or track record compared to any of Moyes, LvG and Jose?
 

amolbhatia50k

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Yeah he's doing a mysterious job, so mysterious that no one else can judge him except by being a total expert in company management. You need extra qualifications in order to see through what Ole is doing. Probably Ole himself can't see what he's doing judging by how he contradicts himself in pressers and says embarrassing things left, right and center but it's alright. Ole supporters need to comfort themselves that everything is going to be alright at one point..right? Right?
:lol: They don't see how utterly daft their logic is.
 

sunama

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I get why people look at states and say it's clearly not good. But nobody is able to suggest an available manager that could improve things at United, if Ole was replaced.
Ole is the worst manager in the EPL.
Any manager in the EPL will improve us. So that's 18 managers of rival teams who would do a better job.
Though we shouldn't just pick "any" manager, though, because Ole is setting the bar exremely low (I doubt even a Championship side would take him as their manager).
Poch is the popular choice, but to be honest, the board could simply hire 1-2 recruiters and ask them to create a short list and run through CVs of suitable managers. If I was appointed into this role, it wouldn't take me long to have a shortlist of 10 candidates, who I would present to the MUFC board. I'll do plenty of research into their backgrounds, playing styles, budgets, experience of countries/leagues, languages spoken, trophy counts, etc. The board can then reduce my shortlist to 5, say. I would then start contacting these managers to find out if they are interested and setting up informal interviews, which Woodward can have with them.

It really does not take a genius to work these things out.
The problem is that our club is ran poorly (with little to no planning), so to do something like this may seem like rocket science.
 
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Davìd Moyéz

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My jury is still out on Ole. I don't understand how people can be so certain in their views that he's not up to it. Maybe in time that will prove to be the case but we are in the process of tearing up the squad and starting again with lots of very young players. Were people expecting some sort of title challenge?

Would be interesting to see what everyone would've voted on a SAF in/out poll after his first 14 months. Obviously I'm not comparing the 2 and SAF had achieved much more before getting the job but it's a similar scenario in terms of rebuilding the squad with young players. That will always take time.
 

sunama

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I’m more or less convinced at this point that the fervent Ole ins are either on a wum, or have genuine mental stability issues.
It's almost as if there is a running joke and I'm not in on it.
We are evidently getting worse, despite spending money, yet they claim we are getting better.
When I show them our league positions (past and present), they come out with some drivel that usually implies that league position is irrelevant and that winning games is not important.

It's like they are living in a twilight zone, where the lower you are in the league, the better. :lol:

I also find it funny how the notions of Ole as our manager and long-term planning suddenly seem synonymous, when in reality he was hired off the back of a 3-month new manager bounce, a lucky win over PSG, and a catchy song about his being at the wheel. None of that really smacks of meticulous planning, in my opinion.
There is no planning, mate.
We are reactive. I wrote a long post of examples on this forum a few days ago, demonstrating that we do not plan - we react.
There is absolutely zero planning.
 

sunama

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It is a terrible return but you and I both know the players signed were not for instant success, we knew all along we are building something for 2-3 years down the line.
When you spend £80M on Maguire (who is not a teenager but a CB in his absolute prime) or £50M on Wan Bissaka (who is already one of the best RBs in the league), this represents significant investment and these players should give you instant results.

Had we bought a bunch of teenagers, then I'd agree with you, but we've bought players who can make instant impact and give instant results.
 

hobbers

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We spent £130m on the two highest rated 'oven-ready' available defenders in the league, in their respective positions, and our defense has not improved at all. They were both obviously bought for instant impact, just without the impact. :lol:

Whether that's down to poor coaching or poor choice of signing, still comes back to Ole. I mean we're the worst team in the league at defending set pieces and yet I still see Williams going up against guys a foot taller than him, meanwhile Maguire lurks on the front post, which is only great if they underhit the cross. As if we haven't learned by now that zonal marking is shit. Well, clearly Ole hasn't learned.