The “Ole In” Brigade

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
24,079
Maguire was brought in not for instant success :houllier: He will be 27 in a month at the peak of his career.

We've heard it all in terms of excuses but this takes the top.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
3,161
When you spend £80M on Maguire (who is not a teenager but a CB in his absolute prime) or £50M on Wan Bissaka (who is already one of the best RBs in the league), this represents significant investment and these players should give you instant results.

Had we bought a bunch of teenagers, then I'd agree with you, but we've bought players who can make instant impact and give instant results.
CB's prime is 27-30, Maguire will be in his prime next year. Wan Bissaka has played one season in his career so you have to expect some time to adapt playing for a big club.

We have seen signings that instant impact does not always happen.

But if want to ignore that our defence has improved this year then thats fine.
 

DFreshKing

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
3,139
Location
Greater Manchester
Thankfully all the 'fans' can do is vent on the internet with zero impact at the football club. They have even begun scraping the barrel and accusing match going fans of some kind of treason because they are supporting Ole. :lol:
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
8,217
Thankfully all the 'fans' can do is vent on the internet with zero impact at the football club. They have even begun scraping the barrel and accusing match going fans of some kind of treason because they are supporting Ole. :lol:
A 1/4th full Old Trafford looked pretty impactful to me.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
14,837
Which is why I'm curious. Generally they say, Poch is a loser has never won a trophy. Okay Allegri then? No shit defensive football, we don't want that. Conte? Same. Nagellsmann never heard of him.

Im geniuenly curious which managers apart from Ole they actually rate as fit for us.
There is a thread on this forum - only a few days old - with lots of replies.
Both Conte and Nagellsmann are VERY highly rated in that thread.
Conte does seem to get good results, fast.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
8,217
Clearly, you do not want to know, so I am not even going to bother getting the stats
I know the stats. 1.4 conceded per game last season. 1.2 so far this season. But we scored 1.7 per game last season, and so far this season we're only managing 1.4.

We've also rapidly become one of the worst sides at defending set pieces this season despite spending £80m on someone generally regarded as the second most aerially dominant CB in the league after VVD.
 

DFreshKing

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
3,139
Location
Greater Manchester
I know the stats. 1.4 conceded per game last season. 1.2 so far this season. But we scored 1.7 per game last season, and so far this season we're only managing 1.4.

We've also rapidly become one of the worst sides at defending set pieces this season despite spending £80m on someone generally regarded as the second most aerially dominant CB in the league after VVD.
So what you are saying is our defence has improved. If only Ole was backed with attacking talent he wanted too.... Everyman and his dog knew we needed at least one top class attacking midfielder and a striker not just a squad winger.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,445
Our inability to defend set-plays is the thing that obviously stands out for me. Having a quick look at things, i think there's only three teams in the whole league who has conceded less goal than us (Liverpool, Leicester and Sheffield United), so from that perspective we're doing fine.

But the last time i checked, we were level with some other team for conceding the most goals from set-plays. It's obviously a massive problem and one that doesn't seem to be getting rectified.
 

Class of 63

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
6,927
Location
Still living next door to Alice ... in Wonderland!
Our inability to defend set-plays is the thing that obviously stands out for me. Having a quick look at things, i think there's only three teams in the whole league who has conceded less goal than us (Liverpool, Leicester and Sheffield United), so from that perspective we're doing fine.

But the last time i checked, we were level with some other team for conceding the most goals from set-plays. It's obviously a massive problem and one that doesn't seem to be getting rectified.
Till we replace De Gea who stays on his line like a Lemon we won't.
 

Shamana

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
1,664
There is a thread on this forum - only a few days old - with lots of replies.
Both Conte and Nagellsmann are VERY highly rated in that thread.
Conte does seem to get good results, fast.
But are the Ole in fans also posting in it?
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
8,217
So what you are saying is our defence has improved. If only Ole was backed with attacking talent he wanted too.... Everyman and his dog knew we needed at least one top class attacking midfielder and a striker not just a squad winger.
Our defence has marginally improved statistically by the whole team being set up more defensively. Than Mourinho. In meltdown mode.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
3,161
I know the stats. 1.4 conceded per game last season. 1.2 so far this season. But we scored 1.7 per game last season, and so far this season we're only managing 1.4.

We've also rapidly become one of the worst sides at defending set pieces this season despite spending £80m on someone generally regarded as the second most aerially dominant CB in the league after VVD.
It's not just the stats though is it? We seem to be able to withstand pressure better this season. Defending also comes from the whole team, not just the defenders. We need better protection for our CB's.

I agree with that point, there is no way we should be this poor at set pieces. How we are this bad is beyond me.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,445
Till we replace De Gea who stays on his line like a Lemon we won't.
That's definitely an issue with De Gea. It's not just limited to set-plays, either. His reticence to come off his line in open play is also an issue. Many times he could've come out and alleviated the situation with a simple punt up field or out of play, but he often leaves it to the defenders to sort out. It has never been a strong point to his game, and he seemingly hasn't worked on it either.

Although, our problems at set-plays are not only down to him. It's a collective issue.
 

Alabaster Codify7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
5,945
Location
Wales
That's definitely an issue with De Gea. It's not just limited to set-plays, either. His reticence to come off his line in open play is also an issue. Many times he could've come out and alleviated the situation with a simple punt up field or out of play, but he often leaves it to the defenders to sort out. It has never been a strong point to his game, and he seemingly hasn't worked on it either.

Although, our problems at set-plays are not only down to him. It's a collective issue.

Here's one.
None of our players seem to work on their weak points. Ever. Pick any current player and a weakness and fans have been talking about it for a long time. It strengthens my belief that our coaching is shockingly poor. If they ARE trying and the player isn't absorbing, drop him.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,445
Here's one.
None of our players seem to work on their weak points. Ever. Pick any current player and a weakness and fans have been talking about it for a long time. It strengthens my belief that our coaching is shockingly poor. If they ARE trying and the player isn't absorbing, drop him.
I’ve talked about our coaching before on this forum. For all of the Ole in or Ole out, we need to seriously look at the coaching staff. Carrick and McKenna have been here under other managerial regimes, and our football has not progressed in any of them. We have one-off games where we perform “tactical masterclasses” (as that’s the phrase people like to use when an underdog beats the favourites), but the football, for the most part, is still directionless.

I just don’t see why they’re still around, tbh. People can harp on all day about how McKenna is supposedly well respected and highly thought of, but he hasn’t fecking shown it here. Ditto for Carrick.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
3,161
I just don’t see why they’re still around, tbh. People can harp on all day about how McKenna is supposedly well respected and highly thought of, but he hasn’t fecking shown it here
I read something last week that the players feel McKenna's training sessions are too easy and simple.

He also seems to have Ole's ear, the annoying thing is even in game management, we see nothing from Ole to change patterns during a game.

If we are drawing or losing, it is all predictable, Lingard on for Perreira. Greenwood on the right for James on the 80th minute.

How do you expect a player to learn when you bring them on whenever we are losing or looking for a goal?

Because when we are 1-0 we play conservative football.
 

Alabaster Codify7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
5,945
Location
Wales
I’ve talked about our coaching before on this forum. For all of the Ole in or Ole out, we need to seriously look at the coaching staff. Carrick and McKenna have been here under other managerial regimes, and our football has not progressed in any of them. We have one-off games where we perform “tactical masterclasses” (as that’s the phrase people like to use when an underdog beats the favourites), but the football, for the most part, is still directionless.

I just don’t see why they’re still around, tbh. People can harp on all day about how McKenna is supposedly well respected and highly thought of, but he hasn’t fecking shown it here. Ditto for Carrick.
If this club is to progress, if/when Ole goes the LOT of them go. We will not go anywhere continuing to give jobs to underqualified boys just because they have history with the club. Rip up the script and modernise the lot.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
750
Location
Whalley Range
Ole is the worst manager in the EPL.
Any manager in the EPL will improve us. So that's 18 managers of rival teams who would do a better job.
Though we shouldn't just pick "any" manager, though, because Ole is setting the bar exremely low (I doubt even a Championship side would take him as their manager).
Poch is the popular choice, but to be honest, the board could simply hire 1-2 recruiters and ask them to create a short list and run through CVs of suitable managers. If I was appointed into this role, it wouldn't take me long to have a shortlist of 10 candidates, who I would present to the MUFC board. I'll do plenty of research into their backgrounds, playing styles, budgets, experience of countries/leagues, languages spoken, trophy counts, etc. The board can then reduce my shortlist to 5, say. I would then start contacting these managers to find out if they are interested and setting up informal interviews, which Woodward can have with them.

It really does not take a genius to work these things out.
The problem is that our club is ran poorly (with little to no planning), so to do something like this may seem like rocket science.
Ok, i'd love to read your shortlist of 10 available managers you think could do better than Ole...
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,445
I read something last week that the players feel McKenna's training sessions are too easy and simple.

He also seems to have Ole's ear, the annoying thing is even in game management, we see nothing from Ole to change patterns during a game.

If we are drawing or losing, it is all predictable, Lingard on for Perreira. Greenwood on the right for James on the 80th minute.

How do you expect a player to learn when you bring them on whenever we are losing or looking for a goal?

Because when we are 1-0 we play conservative football.

Yeah i think i read a similar thing. What's frustrating is that they seem to be getting a free pass. All the heat is on the manager (whether it's Ole, or Jose, or whoever), and that's fair enough to a certain extent 'cause a manager will always take the brunt of it but, as i said, our football is the same: It has no cohesion, no direction, no pattern. Whether you think Ole is the man or not (i don't think he is, personally), for me this needs some serious investigating. This season is not an anomaly. It's a pattern that we've seen for a couple of seasons, under the same coaching staff.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
3,161
Yeah i think i read a similar thing. What's frustrating is that they seem to be getting a free pass. All the heat is on the manager (whether it's Ole, or Jose, or whoever), and that's fair enough to a certain extent 'cause a manager will always take the brunt of it but, as i said, our football is the same: It has no cohesion, no direction, no pattern. Whether you think Ole is the man or not (i don't think he is, personally), for me this needs some serious investigating. This season is not an anomaly. It's a pattern that we've seen for a couple of seasons, under the same coaching staff.
I agree, Rashford finally seems to have improved this season, but the likes of Martial, Pogba, Lingard, DDG, Shaw have not improved like you would expect them to.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
14,383
Naaglesman
Rose
Poch
Rodgers
Wilder
Favre
Ten Haag
Howe
Tuchel
Big feckin Sam
He said available. Are you suggesting all we need to do is wag our little finger and the likes of Tuchel and Rodgers would immedaitely come running?
 

Alabaster Codify7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
5,945
Location
Wales
Naaglesman
Rose
Poch
Rodgers
Wilder
Favre
Ten Haag
Howe
Tuchel
Big feckin Sam
Every single one is SPOT ON pal. Big Sam would be the pits but equally defensive as underdog Ole and would at least solidify us defensively..... he's made numerous relegation fodder into defensive juggernauts.
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
1,116
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
He said available. Are you suggesting all we need to do is wag our little finger and the likes of Tuchel and Rodgers would immedaitely come running?
Klopp and Pep would never be available to us for obvious reasons but as for the rest, throw enough money their way and make them the right promises and it would be amazing the amount of doors that could open.

Every single one is SPOT ON pal. Big Sam would be the pits but equally defensive as underdog Ole and would at least solidify us defensively..... he's made numerous relegation fodder into defensive juggernauts.
I included big Sam because as bad as he is he's still better than Ole.
 

Tel074

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
710
I agree, Rashford finally seems to have improved this season, but the likes of Martial, Pogba, Lingard, DDG, Shaw have not improved like you would expect them to.
To be fair Jesus Christ himself couldnt get a turn out of Lingard or Shaw and Pobga has been injured all season
 

Class of 63

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
6,927
Location
Still living next door to Alice ... in Wonderland!
That's definitely an issue with De Gea. It's not just limited to set-plays, either. His reticence to come off his line in open play is also an issue. Many times he could've come out and alleviated the situation with a simple punt up field or out of play, but he often leaves it to the defenders to sort out. It has never been a strong point to his game, and he seemingly hasn't worked on it either.

Although, our problems at set-plays are not only down to him. It's a collective issue.
Not so fussed with him 'in play' as we want defenders good enough to play their way out of trouble and only put the ball out as a last resort but a bit more talking from him definitely would help, a simple "time you've got this" or "GET RID FFS" would do.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,445
Not so fussed with him 'in play' as we want defenders good enough to play their way out of trouble and only put the ball out as a last resort but a bit more talking from him definitely would help, a simple "time you've got this" or "GET RID FFS" would do.
When i say in play, i mean coming out as a sweeper (à la Ederson). He needs to add that to his game. It's not about the defence being able to play their way out of trouble or not, it's about reading the game and helping out. A long ball over the top from the opposition team that has the potential to cause chaos, could be easily remedied if he just read the game better and came out and cleared the danger.

It's something that he simply has to work on.
 

Class of 63

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
6,927
Location
Still living next door to Alice ... in Wonderland!
When i say in play, i mean coming out as a sweeper (à la Ederson). He needs to add that to his game. It's not about the defence being able to play their way out of trouble or not, it's about reading the game and helping out. A long ball over the top from the opposition team that has the potential to cause chaos, could be easily remedied if he just read the game better and came out and cleared the danger.

It's something that he simply has to work on.
There's a few things he has to work on to be considered one of the all time greats, but that's for another time, and another thread.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
30,207
Location
Egypt
He has not had one full season. Pathetic.
Yeah these upcoming 3 months are going to be different than the entire year he had managed the club in.

Then after this season ends the excuse will shift to : "He needs another full season", right ?