The “Ole In” Brigade

Foxbatt

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so how many defeats before you flip flop again?
When we lose games we should be winning regularly. Leicester game, I said there is nothing much he can do. Right now he is doing well even with games we do not win. Like the Leicester game. I was never one for Poch. I do not think he is going to do any better. Ole seems to be learning on the job too. His talks are now different. You can see from his post match. His subs are coming a lot earlier now too. Now he needs to bring about changes to win against teams who try to sit back and dominate teams. Hopefully he will get some money to buy a DM in the January window. If he gets better than last year then it is a progress as I have said before. Whether he can win the PL is still doubtful. I do not care if he wins the PL this season or not. If we can get second place then it is a huge progress. He is not making the mistakes he made before. Our corners are different now too. The game plan is different and now as Bruno and Ole said we need to see out games a lot better. At least they now talk about it. Next is the implementation. It is too easy to say what is going to happen end of the season but for sure we need a couple of players.
I think he needs to find a better combination up front for games against teams who sit back. Maybe drop Rashford and play Martial and Cavani up front?
 

OleBoiii

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Even without trophies he's the best manager post Fergie. The best part is that we seem to only be getting better, unlike under the other coaches. That is the most important part at the end of the day.

He's created a team of fighters who are entertaining to watch. He keeps a cool head and gives the media no ammunition what-so-ever. And now we're averaging 2.1 points per game and have the same amount of points as the leaders. Imagine if we had a consistent goalscorer like Cole, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo or RVP. We'd be flying.
 

westmeath

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Well, here's the points table comparison for each season since Sir Alex. I'm marked in red the numbers that represent games with less points than our current total. I.E. Last season it took till match day 22 to have more points than we do now.

We're behind on Joses 2nd place finish season (17-18) but ahead of all the other seasons by at least 2 games.
Games Played20-2119-2018-1917-1816-1715-1614-1513-14
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Thanks for this.
I appreciate the effort taken.

I’m just a bit doubtful about comparing points totals across different seasons. Each season is different and winning one league with 80 points can be a bigger achievement than winning the next one with 100 points. It mostly depends on how good the likes of Palace, Southampton, Wolves etc are in a given season.

The key difference between this year and others is that this year we are in a battle for top spot. Despite what we might have thought in 17/18, we were miles away,
 

Foxbatt

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We were never in the hunt with Jose anyway. This year it is onto us to keep it going. We are good enough to beat any team when we play well. The problem is that lots of time in the past we have had been bad. Now we seems to start on the front foot and we need to finish off teams. Actually I won't be too disappointed even if we lose to Pool but hoping that we can nick a win. What frustrates me is that our forwards are as good as any yet the mess up individually. This is why we do not win as many matches as we should have won.
 

glazed

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Here we are now. All you Ole Outters, why not get on the train and ride it as long as it lasts? If and when it goes south, then go ahead and moan then.
I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.
 

Matriac

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I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.
I'm a "wouldn't mind the glazers out if a better owner could afford us, maybe get a DOF in after Ole is done with us, in 20 or 25 years".
 

Dominos

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It is debatable, but this United team play much more entertaining football and are actually starting to play the 'United way' again. Mourinho didn't fit the United tradition and played very pragmatic football.

Points don't always tell who was a better team either. Leicester in their PL win finished on 81 points, whereas United in 1999 treble win only finished on 78 PL points.

The United team in 08/09 CL, PL double win finished on 90 points, and if points alone determine the better team that means this double winning team with Rooney, Ronaldo and co are only the joint 8th best team in PL history. That team is probably the best ever PL team, if anyone said there were 7 better PL winning teams then that would be ludicrous and they would be laughed at.
It's not the only factor but it matters, neither league position or points total alone can tell the whole story.

There's no chance Leicester's title winners for example are a better football team than 18/19 Liverpool who finished 2nd on 97 points, no chance.
 

Eyepopper

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I don't think we'll win the league this season, and I wont be disappointed if we don't, I didnt expect us to. But we're in a great position right now, so I will hope.

Given where we are, and the improvement in both the squad and playing style since he took over I cant see any reason why anyone would argue that Ole doesn't deserve more time. People want an instant solution to a problem that's been 10 years in the making.

The thing I'm most encouraged by is the standards and attitude of Utd seem to be being reintroduced.

I read Carricks biography again recently, where he spoke about the pressure he felt to deliver when he arrived at Utd, and the culture and arrogance of those Fergie players, its something I think we've missed, we've signed players who thought Utd should be privileged to have them rather than players who should feel privileged to play for Manchester United.

That's something only Ole, Carrick, Phelan can instill, and right now it seems to be bearing fruit.

It's something neither Van Gaal, nor Mourinho could do as they tried to bend the club to their vision.
 

glazed

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I'm a "wouldn't mind the glazers out if a better owner could afford us, maybe get a DOF in after Ole is done with us, in 20 or 25 years".
I fear it's optimistic. Ole has gone on strong runs before. But I agree things are looking positive on many fronts and that cannot be ignored. If the club starts to compete at the highest level despite the Glazers I will be amazed but delighted. But I suspect we're just looking at a standard Ole run combined with the weirdness of the Covid football calendar hobbling Pep and Klopp from running away with it as usual.
 

Maluco

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Anyone saying there weren’t times when things looked tenuous is crazy, but it’s a lesson to all of us that doubted him. Football can move so quickly. The European results were so frustrating, and after the terrible start (which can’t just be written off), I was doubting him. We looked terrible in some games, even when winning.

But seeing how healthy the squad is and how the players never gave up playing and fighting for him has cemented it for me.

I am now fully behind him regardless of any blips. No coach is perfect, but his squad building has been tremendous and there are signs that he is getting better and making better in game decisions. That is really positive.

I have gone from supporting the team and wanting a change of coach, to supporting the team and worrying about the coach, to supporting the team and being really happy with the coach.

I never wanted us to lose and I continued to watch every game and support the team. I am just so happy it is working out for Ole, and honestly, I’m enjoying it more because of him and his personality.

I love how he has come back from adversity and kept fighting and building a really talented squad of players has been central to that. Results are just confirming what he has been building.

Long may it continue!
 

reelworld

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You're reaching now, winning the league? Lets see where we are come April before there's any of that talk.

Fact is we're the start of January and so anyone who wanted him sacked in November shouldn't be blinded by a good couple of weeks in December and likewise those who have seen the good in the work he was doing shouldn't be blinded if we run into a bad patch in February (on whenever it may be)

If you flip flop as regular as the weather as I said before dont be surprised when people call you out
You said that we should already have an opinion on Ole and should not change it regardless of results.
I don't know what would happen in the next 23 matches and neither do you.
But at some point if he keeps winning, don't you think those who against him should change their minds?
And like wise the other way around if he suddenly starting to lose matches
 

McTerminator

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Anyone saying there weren’t times when things looked tenuous is crazy, but it’s a lesson to all of us that doubted him. Football can move so quickly. The European results were so frustrating, and after the terrible start (which can’t just be written off), I was doubting him. We looked terrible in some games, even when winning.

But seeing how healthy the squad is and how the players never gave up playing and fighting for him has cemented it for me.

I am now fully behind him regardless of any blips. No coach is perfect, but his squad building has been tremendous and there are signs that he is getting better and making better in game decisions. That is really positive.

I have gone from supporting the team and wanting a change of coach, to supporting the team and worrying about the coach, to supporting the team and being really happy with the coach.

I never wanted us to lose and I continued to watch every game and support the team. I am just so happy it is working out for Ole, and honestly, I’m enjoying it more because of him and his personality.

I love how he has come back from adversity and kept fighting and building a really talented squad of players has been central to that. Results are just confirming what he has been building.

Long may it continue!
I can really respect someone with this sort of outlook.

I have been on a similar journey to you albeit I have backed the manager throughout To varying degrees, but have definitely had some crises of faith in some of the lows.

Right now I am thoroughly enjoying the football and looking forward to the rest of the season!
 

dpansheth

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I am still firmly in “ole out” brigade but credit to him after CL debacle. He “needs to win over a doubter like me by appointing an assistant who can be more tactical and technical than him. And then he’ll have to make a right choice in choosing correctly two of these three players: Haaland, Grealish and Sancho.
 

always_hoping

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I am still firmly in “ole out” brigade but credit to him after CL debacle.
Under Ferguson United made their exits at the CL group stage a handful of times and in easier groups on paper than the one United played in this season.
 

Gator Nate

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10 wins in 16 games. First team in the league to reach 10 wins this season. No other team with games in hand can do it, either.
 

The United

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I am still firmly in “ole out” brigade but credit to him after CL debacle. He “needs to win over a doubter like me by appointing an assistant who can be more tactical and technical than him. And then he’ll have to make a right choice in choosing correctly two of these three players: Haaland, Grealish and Sancho.
If you think this team is not ready to win or do good in domestic league, you might be expecting too much from them in CL. Especially with the group we were in.

Even if we passed the group stage, I doubt anyone would expect us to go further. This team still needs experience of highest order as a whole to go places. They have to do it first in the domestic league like what they are doing now so far.

For me, CL at this point is not too important for us to measure how much we are progressing as a team.
 

tombombadil

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Well, here's the points table comparison for each season since Sir Alex. I'm marked in red the numbers that represent games with less points than our current total. I.E. Last season it took till match day 22 to have more points than we do now.

We're behind on Joses 2nd place finish season (17-18) but ahead of all the other seasons by at least 2 games.
Games Played20-2119-2018-1917-1816-1715-1614-1513-14
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Thank you. That's a very useful comparison.
 

dpansheth

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Under Ferguson United made their exits at the CL group stage a handful of times and in easier groups on paper than the one United played in this season.
Yes, I remember very well. The point I wanted to make wrt “debacle” was how we didn’t close the deal after 3 very good games. Hence my comment about assistants. To me Thats naivety
 

dpansheth

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If you think this team is not ready to win or do good in domestic league, you might be expecting too much from them in CL. Especially with the group we were in.

Even if we passed the group stage, I doubt anyone would expect us to go further. This team still needs experience of highest order as a whole to go places. They have to do it first in the domestic league like what they are doing now so far.

For me, CL at this point is not too important for us to measure how much we are progressing as a team.
CL is certainly important to even attract bigger talents. Once we won again PSG, ole should have been able to close the deal. Make no mistake i m putting the blame squarely on ole carrick team. Not just ole.
 

NoPace

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I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.
You can vote for me when the Caf takes power
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Even without trophies he's the best manager post Fergie. The best part is that we seem to only be getting better, unlike under the other coaches. That is the most important part at the end of the day.

He's created a team of fighters who are entertaining to watch. He keeps a cool head and gives the media no ammunition what-so-ever. And now we're averaging 2.1 points per game and have the same amount of points as the leaders. Imagine if we had a consistent goalscorer like Cole, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo or RVP. We'd be flying.
This what we Ole in trying to tell those Ole out about the progress last time and how under Mourinho we didn’t make progress despite of winning those second tier trophies. It’s only becoming clear to most people now due to what’s happening on the league table.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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The football that team played was abysmal and we didn’t score goals in line with our rivals: one look at how we actually played and it was obvious that the team was destined for failure. This team is comfortably better.
Completely agree. Anyone claiming Mourinho was better at this point is kidding themselves and I’d question their judgement.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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This what we Ole in trying to tell those Ole out about the progress last time and how under Mourinho we didn’t make progress despite of winning those second tier trophies. It’s only becoming clear to most people now due to what’s happening on the league table.
Unfortunately for many fans they can’t see what’s been right in front of their faces for the last two years. It’s been clear to why objective fan that Ole is building a team miles better than anything Mourinho achieved. This team actually plays attractive football for a start, we have recruited much better and there’s a togetherness that frankly was never evident under the toxic one. Easily the best managed post Fergie and I’ve maintained that since last year.
 

dove

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Aged well
Yea, just like that "We will never get out of the group" gem. We are on a very good run right now and Ole of course deserves credit but if you are planning to go after each "Ole outer" then I suggest to wait a bit. We knew we are capable of having very good winning streaks but at the same time we know we can turn into something that barely look like a football team overnight. If we can avoid that, we will be fine and I have no problem admitting I was wrong. Anything less than TOP 4 is a failure with the squad we have.
 

Lentwood

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It strikes me that many members of this forum don't know what they want.

- They want a clear-out but they don't want players to leave.
- They want experienced, 'complete' footballers who are young, hungry and can be developed the 'Manchester United way'.
- They want an experienced manager who is a proven winner but also someone very trendy and 'modern', unlike those dinosaurs LvG and Jose.
- They want the club to throw money at players but they don't want to waste any more money on overpaid mercenaries.
- They don't want 'Galatico' signings but they do want Bale, Neymar and Dybala.
- They want our Scouts to identify young, talented players before they become household names but they complain when we sign young, talented players who are not already household names
- They want to implement a 'long-term' strategy but they want to tear up the plan every time we lose a football match

I believe all of the above comes from short-termism and the desire to 'have their cake and eat it', symptomatic of the 'NuFootball' fan. The NuFootball fan is a strange creature who likes to share football-related "hilarious" banter memes on Facebook, refers to our rivals as 'Loserpool' and 'Shitteh' and has never actually kicked a football, nor been to a football game, bar the odd occasion they get a free ticket through work or a mate. The problem with this 'fan' is they become so entrenched in the tribalism and petty squabbling they fail to see the big picture.

Let's just make a couple of my opinions clear before I make my points;

- The Glazer takeover has done immeasurable damage to Manchester United, they are blood-thirsty, cretinous, uber-Capitalist parasites who have contributed NOTHING to this club

- Ed Woodward may be, in some sense of the word, a 'smart' man, however, when referring solely to his skills at running the operations of a modern day football club, he is an incompetent buffoon

HOWEVER

As I stated earlier in my post, we cannot, as fans, have our cake and eat it. Over the last six years, the Glazers and Ed have been RIGHTFULLY criticised for;

- Failing to understand the 'United DNA'
- Failing to invest between 2005 and 2014
- Looking for 'quick fixes' as opposed to long-term strategic planning
- Throwing money at mercenary footballers who perform better on Instagram and Twitter than they do on the field
- Sacking managers who are basically hung out to dry, effectively fighting a war against an armoured tank division with what has amounted to water pistols
- Employing managers who's very footballing ethos goes against 'the United way'

NOW

If you look at what the Glazers and Ed have done over the last 12-18 months, it would appear to me that somewhere, somehow, they have had an epiphany. It would appear to me at least that there has been a total shift in mindset and that the foundations are now (hopefully) being laid for a better future....what makes me say this?

- The club have done what they should have been doing for the last six years and signed the best two AVAILABLE 'young' players in their position from the PL (Maguire and Wan-Bissaka)

- The club have let go of several players who, whilst admittedly may have contributed to varying degrees over the last few seasons, were NEVER really Manchester United players. Either in terms of personality or ability. I am talking here about your Fellaini's, Sanchez's, Lukaku's, Herrera's and HOPEFULLY Rojo's, Darmian's etc...

- The club refused to bow to Dybala's wage demands NOT because we couldn't afford them but because we felt he was joining for the WRONG reasons

- The club immediately distanced themselves from the usual press speculation about signing players like Bale and Neymar

- The club moved to sign a young player with potential from the Championship. Something we never had to do in the past because we were by far the most resource-rich team in the league. Roman, Sheikh Mansour and TV money has changed that.

- They have appointed Ole, a man who understands Manchester United and its History

Now, I can feel the NuFootball lot gnashing their teeth.....'but what about squad depth' they cry....'how will we cope with only three senior forwards', furthermore 'Ole is a novice, a Glazer yes-man with no more tactical nous than a cabbage'. They also bang on about 'net spend' and 'not replacing Player X'.....well I have an answer to all of the above and that is that this situation we are in now is going to have to get A LOT worse before it gets better and I believe the club finally appreciate this. Here's what I think the club have realised;

- A senior football manager like a Jose Mourinho is the antithesis of what we need right now. We cannot afford to spend the £800m+ I believe it would take to transform us into title contenders in one window and therefore we would end up in another situation whereby we have a frustrated manager sat in the dugout, constantly firing shots at the Board and at the players. We do not need this right now. What we need is a positive man, a man who understands the club and his role within it, a man who admittedly, to a certain extent, is happy just to be here. That man is Ole. Is he the best manager out there? Hell no. Does Ed believe he is the best manager out there? I highly doubt it. I believe the Board see Ole as a man who can oversee this painful transitional period with a smile, whilst just about managing to keep just enough players and fans on-side to make it bearable. At the point were we ARE ready to start challenging for titles again, I believe Ole will make way for a more senior, tactical aware manager who will then go to war with a proper squad of footballers.

- Signing mercenaries and expecting players who performed well for other teams in other positions/formations/styles to slot straight in and produce a 'quick fix' is NOT the way forward. This never, ever works. All of the very best teams are constructed, not bought in one window. What we need now is to identify the right players at the right age and steadily, over the course of four or five windows, build a team. We will lose players like De Gea and Pogba along the way, but this is a hangover of poor choices made in the past. In De Gea's case, we wasted his best years and his powers are now waning. In Pogba's, we failed to find the right players to get the best out of him and keep him happy in a side challenging for trophies. He won't want to, nor should he, waste two/three more seasons pissing about in 6th. This will make it more difficult to build a strong squad but IF we keep identifying the RIGHT players, at the RIGHT age and adding two/three at a time, it ought only be three seasons max before we can at least compete for second

- We need to get rid of the players who don't WANT to be here or who are not good enough to be here as quickly as possible, even if we don't have replacements lined up. A common mistake the NuFootball lot make is that they have gained their experience of buying and selling football players from Football Manager 2018. They think you can simply transfer list 12 players, sell them for asking price before July and spend the money on 5 replacements. Sorry but this is so far from the reality it's laughable. Selling players is almost as complicated as buying players for a club like Manchester United. Our players by default are on big wages and by virtue of the fact we want to sell them, it's unlikely other clubs who could afford their wages would touch them with a barge pole. That means that IF the club identify that Lukaku is NOT the striker to take us forward as a club and there is an offer of £75m on the table, then we HAVE to take it whether a replacement is lined up or not. Does this weaken us short-term? Of course it does, because right now Lukaku and Sanchez are better players than Greenwood, however, next window and the window after we SHOULD have cash, wages and squad positions free to target the players I outlined earlier - the best young players from the PL (and the odd one from elsewhere) in their positions.

So in summary, I believe;

- The Glazers and Ed have learned something from the Jose debacle and the last 6yrs
- Ole is basically a 'long-term caretaker' overseeing the transition phase
- Money IS available but we won't just throw it around anymore. NOT a bad thing at all.
- The club want to get back to signing two/three top young, hungry players at a time, as opposed to hordes of mediocre 'established' footballers (and I include your Lo Celso's and Ndombele's and Icardi's and Fernandes' in that 'hordes of mediocre' category)

However, that all being said, in terms of league position and points gained, this season IS going to be very, very painful. We've left ourselves very thin, our squad is lacking in quality and we have a manager who doesn't appear to have much tactical nous. What we need to appreciate as fans is that this is a result of poor choices made between 2005 and 2018 and just repeating these poor choices MIGHT scrape us 4th on the odd occasion but will never get us back to where we want to be. For that, we need open heart surgery and unfortunately, where going to be very weak for a while before HOPEFULLY making a full recovery

Patience is a virtue. Don't come on here wailing every time we lose one football match. Understand the big picture. Still appreciate the damage that the Glazers and Ed have done to our club. Let's just hope that the green shoots on display are not a mirage!
In another example of an extremely prescient thread by me, here’s my OP from my thread “The Green Shoots of Recovery” which I created at Christmas last year.

I got absolute dogs abuse at the time. I would say roughly 75% of the replies where rude and aggressive in tone.

But hey, no need for any apologies, l was right again, I’ll settle for being able to say “I told you so”. The only obvious error was me calling Fernandes “mediocre”!

I’d just like the enraged, impatient and petulant Ole out posters to think about where the club would be now if the rest of the fanbase had turned after Newcastle (0-1) last year and Ole had been sacked. Maybe remember that next time they want the newest and most fashionable hipster manager to take over?
 

Beachryan

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No one can question the squad mentality Ole has built - we look really, really together right now. And our season of come from behind wins highlights the sheer grit he's instilled too. Plus the squad is vastly better than when he took over. And we're competing for the title at Christmas! All excellent things, and will keep him comfortably employed for the rest of the season. Which is wonderful, because he's f*cking Ole and no United fan doesn't want us to lift trophies with him as the manager.

But, this isn't the first time he's gone on an excellent run - and all the other times it's been followed by utter disasters. So let's get to the end of the season, then we can review.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Above all, he's brought back the belief. That moment post match when everyone was surrounding Bailly was awesome and you could tell the players believe that they can win the league.
 

Oldyella

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I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.

Why would a DOF amount to Ole out though in medium term? Ole deserves as much time as he earns, the same as any other manager.
 

Foxbatt

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For the Ole in brigade. Are you fans of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or Manchester United? If you are fans and supporters of Manchester United then be very happy that we are joint top of the league and pray we win the league. If you are only fans of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, then better go from here and form another forum.
For the Ole out brigade. Are you Ole outers because he is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer? If so you can go and form an Ole out forum somewhere else. If you are fans of Manchester United then be very happy that we are joint top of the league now and pray we win the league.
 

Leftback99

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For the Ole in brigade. Are you fans of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or Manchester United? If you are fans and supporters of Manchester United then be very happy that we are joint top of the league and pray we win the league. If you are only fans of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, then better go from here and form another forum.
For the Ole out brigade. Are you Ole outers because he is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer? If so you can go and form an Ole out forum somewhere else. If you are fans of Manchester United then be very happy that we are joint top of the league now and pray we win the league.
Nobody is a fan of a manager over the club (other than the odd strange poster on here).

'Ole in' is only a thing describing those of us that dared to argue with the likes of yourself that sacking him wasn't the right thing to do and took a lot of abuse for it.

Is every fan of their club an 'x manager in or out' by default? It's not a thing is it?

We just support the club and have more patience beyond what the last result was. Currently enjoyable to be rewarded for our backing.