He is lovely to watch and has great technique and a great touch. I would take that skillset over someone with more power and pace any day. Not convinced for him to be our main striker but happy for him to be the number 2.
The case for Zirkzee as #9
- Thread starter Walrus
- Start date
I think with Mbuemo and Cunha the strengths in his game will become more apparent.
Mbeumo might be able to play that role but Cunha's certainly not a 9, even a wide one. Would be a waste to use him that way, especially just to accommodate Zirkzee.
He'd never score enough goals to be sufficient as our striker.
He is slow.
He doesnt score.
Nice skills at time.
He gives away the ball the majority of time he tries to dribble.
He needs to be sold.
He doesnt score.
Nice skills at time.
He gives away the ball the majority of time he tries to dribble.
He needs to be sold.
Curious as to why you think so? The popular notion is that his tendency to drop deep and get on the ball would see him occupy the space Mbuemo and Cunha operate in and blunt their effectiveness, the idea is that to maximize them you want a striker who is a physical bully and plays high up the pitch between the posts and occupies defenders. How would you see them operating together?
He'll be a fine backup for both the 10 and 9 position, but he doesn't score enough goals to make it work as a starter.
It would be different if we had one of the 10 roles filled by a Salah or someone like that, or even peak Rashford. But realistically if it's going to be Cunha and Mbeumo they're not out and out goal scorers, they're creative (and I actually think quite complementary) players. You need to put a goal scorer in front of them.
It would be different if we had one of the 10 roles filled by a Salah or someone like that, or even peak Rashford. But realistically if it's going to be Cunha and Mbeumo they're not out and out goal scorers, they're creative (and I actually think quite complementary) players. You need to put a goal scorer in front of them.
Weirdly turning into a cult hero.
Reality, regrettably, is that he’s sh1t
Sell him and Hojlund and bring in a striker, ie someone who scores goals
Reality, regrettably, is that he’s sh1t
Sell him and Hojlund and bring in a striker, ie someone who scores goals
Agreed. Joshua just doesn't have the goal scoring gene to ever warrant being called a "striker". Of course he can be useful, but let's just be sure none of us expect more than a few goals and assists from him. 5 plus 5 over the course of a season -- great for a squad man -- would be a fantastic return from him the Dutchman, but I don't think we'll ever see even that from him.
Backup no 10 at best. If we keep him he needs to improve no end
We have Cunha, Mount, Bruno, Amad and Mainoo who would play 10 in front of Zirkzee. And likely Mburmo.
Take the L and send him back to Italy
Nice skills at times but overall a complete dud. Almost good, would be at home in the Irish national team. Likeable but awful. Sell if we can (no chance he leaves).
I think he'll be an interesting watch with some of the potential new players we will have in our side. Still not sure he'll be a starter any time soon, but claims he's "shit" might end up looking a bit daft.
There are those who overrate Zirkzee, and there are those who underrate him, as you are here.
He's never going to be a prolific striker, but he will be a very good 10 who excels at physicality, hold up play, distributing the ball in the final 3rd, and generally being an annoying and imposing presence to the opposition. He's also still relatively young and will improve, especially with better players around him next year.
I would put him at our 7th choice number 10 on the basis we get Mbeumo.
He’s imposing, yes. But not strong. I think he spends far too much time on the ball rather than looking to link up quickly. When he dribbles he loses the ball near every time - far too easy for PL defenders to take the ball from him when he’s dribbling as low speed.
Berbatov from Temu.
Sorry…..in all seriousness, there is a half decent player in there. But certainly not first choice.
Sorry…..in all seriousness, there is a half decent player in there. But certainly not first choice.
I didn't think Zirkzee was the best working in tight spaces, but maybe i was wrong....
Enjoy your holiday Josh!
Enjoy your holiday Josh!
But as a #9 there is no case to be made, would you agree? I don’t deny Z has some nice touches but I don’t see him as a PL #10. He’s almost a passenger.
He’s definitely not a scoring 9, but in a pinch could easily deputize as a sub in certain situations. Definitely not as a starter though.
He doesn't need to score a lot of goals. If we have Cunha and Mbeumo, they can provide the goals, as I'd say his game would suit them both very well.
I think a lot of people have been hoodwinked by Zirkzee due to the complete ineffectiveness of Hojlund.
People seem to be dazzled because he has a few nice touches, but he actually gives the ball away almost every time he dribbles with it.
People seem to be dazzled because he has a few nice touches, but he actually gives the ball away almost every time he dribbles with it.
Like a lot of people, got a bit of time for the way he came back from that Newcastle game and he was definitely better post that, albeit from a very low bar prior.
He’ll need to go up several notches again I think to be an option long term and let’s see how it goes this season. Hopefully he kicks on.
One thing I would say is I always thought his fitness looked poor last season. On the rare occasions he played 90 mins he looked like he could barely move for the last few minutes. I hope he comes back to pre-season ready to go.
He’ll need to go up several notches again I think to be an option long term and let’s see how it goes this season. Hopefully he kicks on.
One thing I would say is I always thought his fitness looked poor last season. On the rare occasions he played 90 mins he looked like he could barely move for the last few minutes. I hope he comes back to pre-season ready to go.
Whilst you are far from the only one to do this… I literally made “the case” in the OP, it’s kinda the point of the thread. Whether it’s a GOOD case or not, is of course the point of discussion.
We still need our #9 to score goals - especially after what we got out of Hojlund this past year. Otherwise what's the point of having a 9 if they can't do the most important thing a 9 is supposed to do.
There’s been almost zero productivity from the team as a whole. Zirkzee has the technical ability and thought process be very creative, but he’s not the type that will create something out of nothing all by himself on a consistent basis. But give him teammates on the same wavelength, who are thinking the same thing at the same time, and I think he can be quite effective. That’s what people here are seeing and hanging their hopes on. Will it work out? Who knows. The one thing we do know for certain is that the new powers that be will give players 2 years to prove their value to the team. And they will make financially rational and reasonable decisions. That means we’ll stick with Zirkzee for another year if we can’t get a sensible deal for Gyökeres or someone else (hence the Delap chase).
Saw an analysis that said the opposite of this. His heat map overlaps with theirs and would lead to congestion in the space outside the penalty area blunting their effectiveness. We need a new striker but if either Zirkzee or Hojlund are playing significant minutes next season they will need to stay as high up the pitch as possible and between the posts to force the defence back and create the room for Mbuemo and Cunha to operate.
He’d be a matched set with our keeper who can’t save shots.
I’m concurring with everyone else who says there is no case to be made for this idea. You don’t have a case.
he is 9.5 not a 9. He doesn't have the right attributes for a 9.
He's better than Hojlund and that's enough reason to start him as a number 9 if we don't sign another striker.
Sell him back to Italy. Just not strong enough for this division. Some fancy footwork in the middle but thats not enough. He is no Firmino.
Sell now when his stock is still decent. 25mil should cover his PSR purposes.
Sell now when his stock is still decent. 25mil should cover his PSR purposes.
I wonder why some fans still want him in the squad. Zirkzee is quite clearly the worst attacker in red in the past 20 years. Don't get me wrong, after his sub mediocre stats in the Serie A i did not expect anything outstanding from him (and never understood why we signed him anyway) but honestly he could even underperform my lowest expectations. He is slow as a snail's fart, zero killer instict in front of the goal and if he tries to dribble he usually loses the ball. Looks like an U12 player amongst seniors. We have to get rid of him.
Considering he was comfortably better than the other striker we had last season, I don't know how you come up with that take.
Christ, save the opinions for when he plays again. He looked like he had something about him in his performances near the end of the season and that was after a good few weeks out injured. He’s definitely not worse than Hojlund and can link up play with clever first touches and hold the ball up.
I think you keep him for a year and see if he develops with better players but if a decent offer came then we'd be daft not to cut our losses. He didn't show any signs of being a goal threat here. Some decent touches here and there and I respect his fight to rally after Newcastle but as someone else said, he needs to jump several gears to become a valuable player.
I don't understand this statement at all. Both were terrible. Zirkzee scored in 2 league games all season, his debut in August and against Everton on December 1st, he did not score in the league again after December 1st. If you compare them side by side it should be concerning that Zirkzee is 2 years older than Rasmus and has fewer career goals. I understand he has higher technical ability but where is it useful? He is simply not a striker and we do not need him anywhere else on the pitch, as much use as tits on a bull.
Ahha so we should keep an absolutly shite attacker JUST BECAUSE he was a bit better (your opinion) than the other shite?
I get you're a new poster, but this isn't a case of bad publicity is still good publicity.
You've just mentioned that he was our worst attacker in the past 20 years, but still complained when he was proven to be far better than Hojlund. Which is it?
We all know he's not a out and out striker, but he has shown he can indeed dribble a ball a lot better than you make out. See Arsenal FA Cup round for a start. It's no surprised here that a lot started to write off the chance of the EL when he got injured.
I think you have a massive agenda to a player who has showed something worthwhile looking at. I think you need to be aiming your frustration at something else.
Hojlund just had what was, by quite some distance, the worst full season any regular starter has had in Utd's PL history. He was almost certainly the worst regular starter in the entire PL all season.
Hell, even if you look just at goals scored then Zirkzee was scoring at a higher rate (both in the league and overall) despite playing a lot of his minutes in a deeper role. He was taking more shots, he was getting much more involved in play, playing a lot more passes and linking up with the other attackers, he was carrying the ball forward himself much more (and with a higher success rate), he was a better target man for long balls, and he was also doing far, far more work defensively. I literally don't think there was a single aspect of the game that Hojlund was doing better, so I don't know how it can be just 'my opinion' that Zirkzee was a bit better.
The first half or so of the season Zirkzee wasn't any better. But he was clearly improving as the season wore on, and looked very much like someone who struggled to get to terms with the increased intensity and physicality of the PL at first but was starting to get to grips of it. Hardly the first player either for us or the league as a whole to need that bit of time. Once he got used to the league he then showed enough that I'm interested to see how much further improvement that he's capable of, especially if the other two attackers are strong goal threats where I suspect Zirkzee will actually increase the amount of goals that they get.
If we can buy two new strikers, I'm not against selling Zirkzee as well. But that's very unlikely. Or if selling Zirkzee is the difference between getting a top quality target in or not, then sure. But if we only buy one striker then I'd much rather keep Zirkzee as the backup than Hojlund.
We should write the season off and stop signing any more first team players if we can’t get a new no 9. That’s how grim the situation with our forward line is.
We need to have some standard. And by that standard, there should be no if about Zirkzee being our starting no 9, whether he’s slightly better than Hojlund or not. Head should roll if we fail this transfer window after all the time to plan and draw up a list of targets. Don’t tell me, we could only have Delap and Gyokeres in that list.