I struggle to make a case for him as a footballer. How on earth did we think he was worth signing. Very very chill and lazy approach, capable of the the odd flash of something. Berba was like that but least you could see he was brilliant. My issue with Zirkzee is his shooting technique, its horrific, it's like he's never seen a football before. There's under 12s capable of striking a ball better. It's bizarre that it wasn't seen in scouting (we obviously are terrible at scouting)
The case for Zirkzee as #9
- Thread starter Walrus
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Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) give their end of season awards out! They celebrate the best players, goals and moments of the season (there were some, honestly) and also give out awards for the worst and most disappointing players/moments of the season.
They then discuss all the latest transfer rumours and get into the potential ins and outs this summer at Old Trafford.
One has to assume Zirkzee is a game-raising cnut in this scenario.
I dread xour Hojlund assessment
Seen a post yesterday saying that we shouldn't actually sign another striker, as Zirkzee will be fine as our number 9. You have to wonder if they're taking the piss or not. Maybe they enjoy seeing us battling relegation.
If he can break into a jog we may be onto something.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The amount of flak that Zirkzee gets as a younger player in a new league is well harsh. He’s unfairly lumped in as being as bad or worse than Hoijland because our attack didn’t function.
I get that he started horribly and took a while to find his feet but who apart from Bruno did function well? Don’t get me wrong he needs to improve a lot but he’d already showed to me signs of massive improvement from seasons start till his injury.
I am convinced that Zirkzee will come good this season and a lot of fans who have already written him off will be made to eat their words.
I get that he started horribly and took a while to find his feet but who apart from Bruno did function well? Don’t get me wrong he needs to improve a lot but he’d already showed to me signs of massive improvement from seasons start till his injury.
I am convinced that Zirkzee will come good this season and a lot of fans who have already written him off will be made to eat their words.
Someone posted a few days ago that he only scored in 2 league games last season and one of those was the opening game. If correct, that's scary for a player being touted as a centre forward. His best position is on the bench.
Zirkzee is not crap
Zirkzee is not a #9, he is a second striker or "something between 9 and 10" in his own words
Both of these statements are correct. We also need a proper #9 in the ideal world, but there is a lot we need and despite popular opinion, I think signing Cunha/Mbeumo pair is much more critical fot Amorim's system. Not only it allows Amad to play as attacking wingback but the upgrade from last year's mess of Garnacho and rotating roster of others to these two goal-making machines is transformative
He can't, we aren't.
Said it many times; I think he’ll be absolutely class this coming season if we get the team behind him right. I’m not saying we build a team around him, but if we do get Mbueno over the line, then that front 3 has bags of potential to click into something fantastic in my eyes.
I'll make allowances for the possibility that playing with Cunha and Mbeumo could change things, but as of now it seems to me a stretch to think he'll have success as a 9. He hasn't shown much sharpness in and around the box.
I like Zirkzee and I think he has a space in this squad. Clearly talented, good technical ability but he joined United for the worst league season in decades. Some comments about him on here are cruel and very harsh and said with pure emotion and no logic.
Saying that, we need a number 9 if Hojlund goes. We cannot rely on Obi yet and Zirkzee in my opinion should be in the number 10 role as back up as well as back up to the number 9 making Obi third choice.
We badly need a number 9 with experience. No thanks to the Ekteke lad or anyone "promising". Gykores is ideal but personally, I'd love to see Mateta here. Good age, good experience and someone Obi can replace in a few years, if he is good enough. Also can play 343.
Saying that, we need a number 9 if Hojlund goes. We cannot rely on Obi yet and Zirkzee in my opinion should be in the number 10 role as back up as well as back up to the number 9 making Obi third choice.
We badly need a number 9 with experience. No thanks to the Ekteke lad or anyone "promising". Gykores is ideal but personally, I'd love to see Mateta here. Good age, good experience and someone Obi can replace in a few years, if he is good enough. Also can play 343.
I know we finished 15th but we arent a team that should be finishing that low realistically. Not saying we should be top 4 but with the majority of players we have we should at least be higher. So if we say for arguments sake we are a top 10 team. Zirkzee wouldn't get a game for any of the other 9 teams.
If Zirkzee played for Wolves and had the season he just had but for them, would there be teams chasing him and wanting him? No chance. We signed Cunha from Wolves because it was clear and obvious he was a very very good player. I could never see Zirkzee at Cunha levels.
I keep seeing people say "There's a player in there" and "his control/holdup and touch in X game was brilliant". The fact that we have to point out 1 particular moment from 1 particular game to try and justify him being a good player isnt right, how can you gloss over all the other moments where It looked like it was a fan on the pitch trying to join in?
We are stuck with him for another season unfortunately, but can't see him being anything other than a bit part player until we cut our losses and move him on to anyone willing to offer chocolate buttons as a fee.
If Zirkzee played for Wolves and had the season he just had but for them, would there be teams chasing him and wanting him? No chance. We signed Cunha from Wolves because it was clear and obvious he was a very very good player. I could never see Zirkzee at Cunha levels.
I keep seeing people say "There's a player in there" and "his control/holdup and touch in X game was brilliant". The fact that we have to point out 1 particular moment from 1 particular game to try and justify him being a good player isnt right, how can you gloss over all the other moments where It looked like it was a fan on the pitch trying to join in?
We are stuck with him for another season unfortunately, but can't see him being anything other than a bit part player until we cut our losses and move him on to anyone willing to offer chocolate buttons as a fee.
Nuts to say he had only one good moment.
Nuts to say he had a good moment in every game. More often than not he didn't do anything noticeably good in a game.
Stop clinging onto the brief flashes. There's way more bad than good. Period.
A poor version of Berbatov
Obviously he struggled massively for the first half of the season or so. However he was also clearly improving as the season wore on and he got used to the intensity and physicality of the league, and it was more than just the odd good moment that you're making out.
So the question is just how much further improvement will come. If he continues getting better he can end up being at least a good squad player for us, especially if we surround him with good goal scorers (as he will quite likely enable them to score more than they would with a more selfish striker). Alternatively he doesn't get better, and indeed might even drop back to the performance levels of his early matches, in which case he obviously won't be good enough.
No way to know yet which way he'll go, but we can hope that'll it'll be the former.
imagine a more lackluster berba , berba on meds
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if we don’t bring someone else in.
Rasmus fits the tactics a lot more than Zirkzee, and now with Cunha, Mbeuno and hopefully some functioning wingbacks in Dorgu and most likely Amad ,we’ll finally find ourselves with players capable of exploiting the space behind Rasmus when he drags the defence in.
Although maybe he’ll change it and have everything go through Zirkzee which I doubt but maybe after a year in the Prem he’s realised his tactics need adjusting.
Rasmus fits the tactics a lot more than Zirkzee, and now with Cunha, Mbeuno and hopefully some functioning wingbacks in Dorgu and most likely Amad ,we’ll finally find ourselves with players capable of exploiting the space behind Rasmus when he drags the defence in.
Although maybe he’ll change it and have everything go through Zirkzee which I doubt but maybe after a year in the Prem he’s realised his tactics need adjusting.
This is what the preseason is for
Every player had more bad than good. The whole season was more bad than good. This team and last season didnt really offer Zirkzee a chance to be good. Overtime Zirkzee started to become a bit better while the team stayed shit (or got even worse). Hopefully it will be better upcoming season and Zirkzee can show what he can do in a better team.
Zirkzee is a good player, in fact he was one of the few players I enjoyed watching in the second half of the season. We need an out and out striker/goalscorer becauses hes not that, but I'd be disappointed if he left. Hes shown a lot more than Hoilund IMO. Surely we can manage to sell 2 of Rashford, Garnacho, Sancho, Antony and Hoilund. I'd like us to say no loans whatsoever this summer. Small loan fees and subsidised wages don't help us much. If everyone in the bomb squad knew they would be facing a season training with the youth team they would be more motivated a agree a permanent deal.
I agree, Zirkzee was very good past the 90 minute mark
There is no case to be had for Zirkzee as a striker, he's about 10 to 15 percent better than Hojlund in a low bar comparison which just highlights how critical the need is to seriously strengthen the forward line this window.
Yes there is case but I’m tired of us going into new season relying on players based on theory rather than their actual performances. Get a striker
Any other big club would cash in and move him on. Suppose it's because they have money to do so, we can't just take the L and replace him with another big signing. He'll get this season and be swiftly moved on by Amorim or whoever is in charge. Off the top of my head Vardy is 14 years older and he's still more mobile than a 24 year old Zirkzee. Obviously Vardy is superior striker I'm not comparing any of that, I'm just saying the mobility, urgency, sprints are all levels below what's required. Berbatov worked well but feck me look who was around him. We could afford to have someone like that.
First season here - decent improvement and trajectory throughout the season. Good on the ball and solid progressive passer - deserved several more assists than he got. Didn’t finish off as many chances as he should have but positions were alright.
It was a crap season and I find it hard to attribute much of that to him. I’d say he’s earned the chance the prove himself with a second season - but it’s definitely make or break for him.
I don’t think I can see him as a starter long-term (would be happy to be proven wrong) but I think he’ll get plenty of chances this year to prove whether he can be a squad player long-term. Certainly would be useful for us given he can play across the front 3 in this system
It was a crap season and I find it hard to attribute much of that to him. I’d say he’s earned the chance the prove himself with a second season - but it’s definitely make or break for him.
I don’t think I can see him as a starter long-term (would be happy to be proven wrong) but I think he’ll get plenty of chances this year to prove whether he can be a squad player long-term. Certainly would be useful for us given he can play across the front 3 in this system
I like Zirkzee, there is a very good player in him.
Only concern is too many No-10's in the team now which can be an issue next season,
Mainoo,Mason,Zirkzee,Bruno,Amad,Mbeumo,Cunha, with all these players and a couple of other signings like a Striker and CM I would prefer 4-3-3 to be honest.
-----------------------Osimhen---------------
--------Cunha----------------------Mbeumo---
-------------------------Bruno-----------------------------
--------------Mainoo----------Baleba-------------------
----Dorgu-----Heaven----Yoro-------------Maz---------
Amad,Zirkzee,Ugarte,Deligt as backup options
The difference is much bigger. With ZZ we hold on to the ball much better, which helps us avoid turnovers and counterattacks.
His pressing is better than Højlund’s as well. Something is off about Højlund’s game that needs addressing.
Both strikers suffer from lack of service, but with ZZ we look more like a team.
ZZ is alot of better than Hoijund. Definitely has a role behind a main striker. If Mbeumo cost so much, we might as get a striker and let ZZ compete for AM role. We had too many no. 10, I think we should move Mount.
We could line up with Cunha and Mount at 10, Mbeumo and Amad on the wings, Bruno as 8 and Zirkzee as false 9. That would be 6 players who arguably are best in the same position. Not sure what exactly Amorim‘s plan is but if we don’t create tons of chances we never will.
Way too slow. Way.
I think if we go down this route, it'll end in tears. Zirkzee was mostly dreadful last season, but gets perceived somewhat positively because he has decent technique and because Hojlund by comparison managed to be even worse.
We need to sign an actual striker.
We need to sign an actual striker.
Great post. I m in total agreement. I am really lloking forward to a front 3 of Cunha, and Mbeumo, with Zirskee dropping in and playing the (Firminho role) I still think we need nother srtiker, with a differnt profile. I think Zirskee is very under rated on here. With Amad also at RWB, and I imagine rotating positions with with Mbeumo, I am actually more confident than most on here.
We are still at least 1 WC althletic ball carrying CM short, (Mousa Dembele type), a WC CCB that can step into midfield and with elite passing ability, and of course a GK, which will probably have to wait to next season.
In other news, I just have some weirrd feeling Wirtz will be a flop, or t least not as good as he is in Germany. (We can dream
Always find this guys content interesting...
This. End of discussion.
As said above, this. He has 2 speeds, standing still and a fast stroll. That's not even referring to his overall pace. I think Henry was fuming about Mbappe in champions league on CBS this season. Mbappe is lightning, but when he was playing central he just didn't have the urgency to get into box, Bellingham was constantly running past him.
Pace doesn't make players good, Dan James/Obertan/ were lightning but didn't have alot of anything after that. I don't think a player is good because is can stand around and lay off the ball nicely to others. Weghorst and Ighalo done that.
Nobody said a player necessarily needs pace to be good, but I do think without it in the premier league you either have to have that genius footballing brain or you will suffer. It's more and more physical. A 9, though, needs pace to get onto balls put through or crossed in. Zirkzee just is not a no 9 for me, at all. I have said it before, he'd be a legend in indoor 6 aside.
ZZ is not fast but not slow either. His big frame masks his actual speed. Just watch his pressing and his runs with the ball.
I’m more concerned with whether he can start scoring more goals, which also depends on the team around him. We need to see more hunger and aggression from him. He’s more of a technical player who connects, but that doesn’t mean he can’t improve that aspect of his game.
You are right about Weghorst, but he lacked the technical skills and ball carrying ZZ has.
Another player who, to me, comes across well in the media, and I hope he has a good career.
But he isn't good enough to be United's permanent number 9 if we want to get back into the top 4.
But he isn't good enough to be United's permanent number 9 if we want to get back into the top 4.