The club treating loyal fans like sh*t again

Champ said:
Anyone thinking that ticket touting isn't an issue is burying their head in the sand.
United are definitely not the only club doing similar to this.
Yes it's a bit heavy handed and probably has caused pain for some innocent people, but it's probably also caught a fair amount of guilty parties who are making a shed load of cash from touting.

I think whilst 'day trippers' evidently bring in more money on the day, season ticket holders bring in guaranteed cash straight away at the start of the season, so the club isn't going to do away with that anytime soon.
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Why is "other clubs doing this" now a defence?

How many innocent season ticket holders losing their season tickets for absolute minor policy breaches is acceptable?

And aswell, given that most of these new free spaces will be re advertised as hospitality, the club are essentially just doing the touting themselves now.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
Why is "other clubs doing this" now a defence?

How many innocent season ticket holders losing their season tickets for absolute minor policy breaches is acceptable?

And aswell, given that most of these new free spaces will be re advertised as hospitality, the club are essentially just doing the touting themselves now.
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Did I say it was acceptable?

I use the case of other clubs as this is just what is happening, it isn't exclusive to United and touting is a genuine issue across the industry, the fact that the Government crackdown doesn't extend to football is a concern in itself.

How else would you propose the club crackdown on potential illegal sales? Is there a fairer way of doing so?
 
Champ said:
How else would you propose the club crackdown on potential illegal sales? Is there a fairer way of doing so?
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Is there a fairer way than blanket banning thousands of ST holders with a vague email one month after renewals with no clear definition of wrong-doing?

Yes.
 
Champ said:
Yes it's a bit heavy handed and probably has caused pain for some innocent people, but it's probably also caught a fair amount of guilty parties who are making a shed load of cash from touting.
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This blanket approach to it that's catching thousands of loyal match-going fans who have done barely anything wrong is the exact reason why people are complaining.
 
Following pressure from MUST/Fans Forum, the club have now changed their approach on this and now giving affected ST holders a chance to explain the 'suspicious activity' on their accounts

The problem is that INEOS cuts has left the ticket office woefully understaffed so I doubt they have the resources to deal with proper investigation into each account

Not clear at the moment how many are actually affected - i know a couple who have put forward their appeal so we wait and see
 
Rood said:
Following pressure from MUST/Fans Forum, the club have now changed their approach on this and now giving affected ST holders a chance to explain the 'suspicious activity' on their accounts

The problem is that INEOS cuts has left the ticket office woefully understaffed so I doubt they have the resources to deal with proper investigation into each account

Not clear at the moment how many are actually affected - i know a couple who have put forward their appeal so we wait and see
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There has been no change at all to the clubs approach since MUST released a statement from what I have seen?

All fans were given a dubious opportunity to query it - and many have already been knocked back.
 
Utd heap said:
There has been no change at all to the clubs approach since MUST released a statement from what I have seen?

All fans were given a dubious opportunity to query it - and many have already been knocked back.
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when you say knocked back what has been the punishment from the club? A suspension? Loss of their season ticket?
 
EverReddy said:
when you say knocked back what has been the punishment from the club? A suspension? Loss of their season ticket?
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Told to go through an official appeals process (long winded, loads of evidence requested) - ST deactivated, no access to it.
 
Utd heap said:
There has been no change at all to the clubs approach since MUST released a statement from what I have seen?

All fans were given a dubious opportunity to query it - and many have already been knocked back.
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You posted yourself up thread from the impacted fan "The e-mail i had today is not as aggressive as what they sent out on Friday."

There is a total change of approach and tone from from the club - whether it leads to a fair system of assessing who is a tout and who isnt remains to be seen, but many appeals referred to MUST have been overturned already with ST reinstated

Like I said, I'm doubtful myself that the ticket office have the resources to deal with this properly but let's see
 
Utd heap said:
Is there a fairer way than blanket banning thousands of ST holders with a vague email one month after renewals with no clear definition of wrong-doing?

Yes.
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How though? By going through every single transaction from thousands of ticket holders, meaning actual touts get away with it yet again?

The holders can appeal the decision which I am sure if they have done nothing wrong then they will and can prove that to the club.
Will it be foolproof? Of course not, but I'm yet to hear a different method which would be fairer.
 
Champ said:
How though? By going through every single transaction from thousands of ticket holders, meaning actual touts get away with it yet again?

The holders can appeal the decision which I am sure if they have done nothing wrong then they will and can prove that to the club.
Will it be foolproof? Of course not, but I'm yet to hear a different method which would be fairer.
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So cause huge disruption, and cause significant anguish to thousands of your regular ST holders in the effort of sweeping up a few touts - when the club themselves resell ST holder priced tickets to members at £199 a pop on a weekly basis.

It's all fecked up and we have people cheerleading it.
 
Again, no one disagrees with United tackling touts - it’s overdue.

However, when lifelong season‑ticket holders are being flagged for what is normal, honest behaviour, this is a clear issue.

It's hurting people who have been the backbone of the club for in some cases 50 years.

Worth adding again the club made things needlessly difficult for older fans with the introduction of online only tickets and completely binning off paper tickets.

Also worth adding that the changes themselves e.g the smartphone app, making it so the ST holders can only forward to members were seen as the recent solutions to touting. If anything, touting has become considerably worse now. This is on the club and the fact their solution was potentially a blanket ban (after renewals...) is fecking appalling.
 
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
Thanks for posting this, I can't post stuff like this yet or even reply with your quote properly... Still a newbie here.
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I'll quote your post from the Newbie forum for now:
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
Can someone who has permissions please post these in the "All Things Ticket related" forum?

A lot of noise about club sanctions going out to Season Ticket holders - please follow either or both.

https://x.com/OhCheesesChrist

https://cheesesofnazareth.substack.com/p/manchester-united-account-audits
https://cheesesofnazareth.substack.com/p/the-demise-of-the-season-ticket-holder
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Utd heap said:
So cause huge disruption, and cause significant anguish to thousands of your regular ST holders in the effort of sweeping up a few touts - when the club themselves resell ST holder priced tickets to members at £199 a pop on a weekly basis.

It's all fecked up and we have people cheerleading it.
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The club can resell what they want, that's through an official channel,

Also thousands of ST holders? Not sure this is correct, hundreds possibly, but definitely not thousands.

You maybe getting misconstrued with some of the standard member accounts getting banned also, which again happens at every single club...
 
Champ said:
The club can resell what they want, that's through an official channel,

Also thousands of ST holders? Not sure this is correct, hundreds possibly, but definitely not thousands.

You maybe getting misconstrued with some of the standard member accounts getting banned also, which again happens at every single club...
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Your stance here is everything is fine based on what sorry? Is everyone up in arms for no reason? Well done to the club, great initiative. Well actioned and implemented.
 
The less season tickets, the more Jim can sell tourist tickets at twice or more the price. That's all it comes down to. Hopefully there's some kind of legal challenge and it wont stick.

Although, you have other people on this forum lauding the world cup as a success specifically because of how much money FIFA ripped off from fans....so there's where you can look for who is to blame.

If clubs, football bodies etc. treat fans like garbage, and people pay up anyway, and even praise them for it, it will keep happening and keep getting worse.
 
Utd heap said:
Example below of the chaos this is causing.

Am I being naive.

The e-mail i had today is not as aggressive as what they sent out on Friday.

I’ve explained that I run the bus and a few of the older lads are not tech savvy so with their permission I have logged into their accounts on my phone to sort.

One was when they updated the app and one boys phone stopped him applying for aways, so I linked him to his mates app ticketing.

The other time one of the older blokes Mrs was struggling to renew his season ticket.
She had been putting the wrong card number in and it took is ages to sort out and work it out.

They’ve pulled my daughters ticket as well, which I assume because I log into it on my phone to apply for her aways.

I’ve done feck all wrong but try and help people out.

Blanket banning 5k people with generic emails via an AI sweep :lol:

Peoples mental health being messed about with here.
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The club is stuck between a rock and a hard place I think. I’m reading some of the examples here like asking people to log in on their behalf because they can’t update card details, off course that is going to ring alarm bells on any IT system.

What the club could do here is give a one-off benefit of the doubt and a warning that it could lead to losing their ST, but also offer a helpline so that people who struggle with the IT side can call official channels for assistance
 
noodlehair said:
The less season tickets, the more Jim can sell tourist tickets at twice or more the price. That's all it comes down to. Hopefully there's some kind of legal challenge and it wont stick.

Although, you have other people on this forum lauding the world cup as a success specifically because of how much money FIFA ripped off from fans....so there's where you can look for who is to blame.

If clubs, football bodies etc. treat fans like garbage, and people pay up anyway, and even praise them for it, it will keep happening and keep getting worse.
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Yep. This 100%.

The same people who will be moaning about the atmosphere in a few years when the last remnants of any fan culture have gone.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
Yep. This 100%.

The same people who will be moaning about the atmosphere in a few years when the last remnants of any fan culture have gone.
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The same people applauding FIFA for fleecing fans are also insisting that the atmosphere was generally great during the World Cup though, so there's no way they'll admit that if it also happens to turn shite at OT.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The same people applauding FIFA for fleecing fans are also insisting that the atmosphere was generally great during the World Cup though, so there's no way they'll admit that if it also happens to turn shite at OT.
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Yes we have people who think dividing a football game into quarters, targeted discrimination against players/officials/fans, having the American President change the rules of football midway through a tournament, and general greed glorifying at the expense of fans, are entirely insignificant issues. So stuff like this is hardly surprising.

I just feel for the actual fans caught up in it and hope the club end up having to backtrack. Fan groups need to be coming together to make more noise about stuff like this.

I'm sure there is some touting that goes on, but its nothing compared to other events such as music gigs. I've never paid over face value for a United ticket or even been asked to...but that's not why the club are doing it.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The same people applauding FIFA for fleecing fans are also insisting that the atmosphere was generally great during the World Cup though, so there's no way they'll admit that if it also happens to turn shite at OT.
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Oh yeah, you're correct.

The thing is though, nobody ever really pushes back on any of this though.

We all moan and then we all ultimately comply. The only time we haven't all just got on with it was the Super League and look at how that ended
 
noodlehair said:
The less season tickets, the more Jim can sell tourist tickets at twice or more the price. That's all it comes down to. Hopefully there's some kind of legal challenge and it wont stick.

Although, you have other people on this forum lauding the world cup as a success specifically because of how much money FIFA ripped off from fans....so there's where you can look for who is to blame.

If clubs, football bodies etc. treat fans like garbage, and people pay up anyway, and even praise them for it, it will keep happening and keep getting worse.
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You’re right and I never have understood it. I get that businesses scrimp for every penny, but surely the value of having a strong core support that creates a great atmosphere in the stadium is better than filling it with tourists and day trippers just to make a few extra quid here and there. With a club the size of United and the turnover they have, I don’t even see how that extra revenue is going to make a significant difference to the bottom line. The legacy fans, those who’s dad went to Old Trafford in the 50’s, and are now taking their kids, the Stretford End and vocal local support, this is the lifeblood of the club. Once it’s gone it’s gone, all that just to scrape around for a few extra pennies on matchday. It feels incredibly short sighted and I don’t understand it.
 
Unfortunately this was always going to happen. “Sir” Jim has a real distain for minority shareholders, I mean fans.

Huge void between leadership and the fans, regardless of what Colette Roche / Our PR team try to tell you.

Look at how Brentford listen and respect their fans. Miles apart.
 
El Zoido said:
You’re right and I never have understood it. I get that businesses scrimp for every penny, but surely the value of having a strong core support that creates a great atmosphere in the stadium is better than filling it with tourists and day trippers just to make a few extra quid here and there.
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I agree with the sentiment of what you say, but there’s an ever increasing number of season tickets now in the hands of people who sporadically attend matches. They either tout their unwanted matches or just hand them out to a wide range of friends and family. Season tickets should be in the hands of people who intend to try and attend virtually every home match. Since the digitisation of season tickets, fewer people are giving them up, even if they no longer have the intention of going to every home match, as our policies are very generous in terms of passing tickets on.

Season tickets should be primarily used by those whose name they are in and/or immediate family members, such as where a couple may have had a pair of tickets and now want to start taking their kids too, but can’t get a hold of another couple of season tickets next to their current ones.
 
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Utd heap said:
Your stance here is everything is fine based on what sorry? Is everyone up in arms for no reason? Well done to the club, great initiative. Well actioned and implemented.
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Yes, it is a great initiative, getting rid of touts that make it difficult for anyone to buy tickets at a decent price should be heralded by the fans.

Could it have been handled better? Sure.
But again, it's the same action at nearly every club, interesting that other clubs crow about banning people as it's usually a good thing.

Here we have potentially a few hundred season ticket holders who appear to have been mixed in with thousands of members all with suspicious activities on their accounts.

I'm sure if those ST holders can prove that they are not up to nefarious purposes than I expect the club to do what's right.
 
Champ said:
Yes, it is a great initiative, getting rid of touts that make it difficult for anyone to buy tickets at a decent price should be heralded by the fans.

Could it have been handled better? Sure.
But again, it's the same action at nearly every club, interesting that other clubs crow about banning people as it's usually a good thing.

Here we have potentially a few hundred season ticket holders who appear to have been mixed in with thousands of members all with suspicious activities on their accounts.

I'm sure if those ST holders can prove that they are not up to nefarious purposes than I expect the club to do what's right.
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Constantly amazed on here by the sheer blind faith people have in the clubs intentions.
 
TMDaines said:
I agree with the sentiment of what you say, but there’s an ever increasing number of season tickets now in the hands of people who sporadically attend matches. They either tout their unwanted matches or just hand them out to a wide range of friends and family. Season tickets should be in the hands of people who intend to try and attend virtually every home match. Since the digitisation of season tickets, fewer people are giving them up, even if they no longer have the intention of going to every home match, as our policies are very generous in terms of passing tickets on.

Season tickets should be primarily used by those whose name they are in and/or immediate family members, such as where a couple may have had a pair of tickets and now want to start taking their kids too, but can’t get a hold of another couple of season tickets next to their current ones.
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I’m a silver season ticket holder myself, I attend probably 60-70% of matches. I live in the midlands so I generally miss the midweek games mostly cause I can’t get to an evening kick off in time after finishing work, unless I take holiday. But I am part of an official supporters club and my ticket always goes to another member of the club, so my seat is never empty. In fact, selling my ticket to someone outside of the supporters club puts not only my season ticket at risk, but our status as a recognised supporters club at risk too. I think this is a fair solution and they should be exploring options for season ticket holders who genuinely are not touting, it feels like they’ve cast the net too wide and that they’re trying to simply reduce season ticket numbers and are using this as an excuse.
 
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
Thanks for posting this, I can't post stuff like this yet or even reply with your quote properly... Still a newbie here.
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You mention making a Subject Access Request (SAR) to see what data the club has on you, which is a good idea. By law, people have the right to know how an organisation processes their personal data.

However, a SAR can be redacted or even outright refused under a 'Crime and Taxation' exemption. Ticket touting is, by law, illegal. Therefore, the club could possibly justify refusing your SAR.

It would therefore be best to ask the Information Commissioner's Office for guidance before setting out on a SAR.

Just a tip.
 
Cee90 said:
Unfortunately this was always going to happen. “Sir” Jim has a real distain for minority shareholders, I mean fans.

Huge void between leadership and the fans, regardless of what Colette Roche / Our PR team try to tell you.

Look at how Brentford listen and respect their fans. Miles apart.
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Roche is the definition of an empty suit.
 
FearAontaithe said:
You mention making a Subject Access Request (SAR) to see what data the club has on you, which is a good idea. By law, people have the right to know how an organisation processes their personal data.

However, a SAR can be redacted or even outright refused under a 'Crime and Taxation' exemption. Ticket touting is, by law, illegal. Therefore, the club could possibly justify refusing your SAR.

It would therefore be best to ask the Information Commissioner's Office for guidance before setting out on a SAR.

Just a tip.
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I tried to be specific, which I thought might help with what data they could ask for.

TBH, putting the pressure on the club with all these requests was enough; we know they don't have the resources for it.

The media is fully picking up on it all; now we have to wait for the club's response
 
El Zoido said:
You’re right and I never have understood it. I get that businesses scrimp for every penny, but surely the value of having a strong core support that creates a great atmosphere in the stadium is better than filling it with tourists and day trippers just to make a few extra quid here and there. With a club the size of United and the turnover they have, I don’t even see how that extra revenue is going to make a significant difference to the bottom line. The legacy fans, those who’s dad went to Old Trafford in the 50’s, and are now taking their kids, the Stretford End and vocal local support, this is the lifeblood of the club. Once it’s gone it’s gone, all that just to scrape around for a few extra pennies on matchday. It feels incredibly short sighted and I don’t understand it.
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Its just the capitalist culture that's taking over football, and the general acceptance rather than fight back from it.

I mean even in the space of a few years, we've gone from the general uproar against the super European money league idea, to general acceptance of the world cup being turned into a nauseating greed/wealth parade.

I agree with you but it's pointless expecting millionaire yank owners and a British billionaire with a massive track record of treating low paid employees like sh*t, to see it that way. The only way to get through to them is stop dipping into your pocket or kick up enough fuss that they worry the PR might start hurting the pockets.
 
Utd heap said:
Constantly amazed on here by the sheer blind faith people have in the clubs intentions.
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I'm constantly amazed by fans persisting on pouring scorn on the club that they support.

I get people are emotionally attached to the club, but all it's been on here recently is utter ire and disrespect to the club, be it about the owners, about the lack of ambition, the lack of transfers, not spending £100m on a single player, and now the club trying to do the right thing and eradicating touts which is a very serious issue across the country.

I get it, people are angry, but surely you can actually see through that red mist and understand what the club are trying to achieve here? If you can't then that's on you.
 
Champ said:
I'm constantly amazed by fans persisting on pouring scorn on the club that they support.

I get people are emotionally attached to the club, but all it's been on here recently is utter ire and disrespect to the club, be it about the owners, about the lack of ambition, the lack of transfers, not spending £100m on a single player, and now the club trying to do the right thing and eradicating touts which is a very serious issue across the country.

I get it, people are angry, but surely you can actually see through that red mist and understand what the club are trying to achieve here? If you can't then that's on you.
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Dont lump in other irrelavent shite (transfers ffs) to try and make your own view softened up.

The owners are horrible dickheads and they are trying to fleece us.

We have £100 matchday tickets now. Not hospitality, no nothing. Just a ticket - £100.

Now a wave of ST holder spurious bans. We know where this ends.

You carry on being a Turkey voting for Christmas pal
 
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