The constant media calls for us to replace Martial

[eire-red]

To be fair, I think the narrative is more Martial isn't a world class no.9, in the same bracket as Kane, Aguero, Lewandowski etc. Fair enough, he's not, but its lazy to suggest that because he's not world class, then we should be looking to bring in someone else. Selling RVN and giving the reins to Saha, Rooney and Ronaldo is case and point. I feel Man Utd have always been better when the forward line is thought of as a unit, rather than one prolific player always being relied on. We have that dynamic with Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, and hopefully Sancho incoming.

In terms of the team itself, he's developing a really good understanding with Rashford and Bruno, and you can see he's always been on the same wavelength as Pogba.

I don't necessarily disagree with the view that Kane would take us to the next level going forward. In fact, on current form Martial stays in the team anyway and Rashford likely drops out. It's moreso the fact that that transfer is just never going to happen, and ignores our glaring weaknesses in the team (RW, CB and CDM) so you're just sitting there and wondering how the hell upgrading on one of our better performers will solve all of our problems. It's as if when Mourinho pushed him out of the team, he became the media's poster boy for what was wrong with United, when in reality what was wrong was the fact that he wasn't in the team in the first place ahead of Sanchez/Lingard etc.

 

[E-mal]

It’s not really lazy journalism, lots of people are/were uncertain about Martial and I still am too. Not if he keeps up a certain level for a long time, then everyone will shut up, but he never really has. Blows hot and cold, often plays badly or just not involved in games, then suddenly comes back again. Point being; his lowest level is lower than what you expect from a top striker. He is often on fire when the team is on fire, but does very little out of nothing over time when the team is struggling. Kane has a higher general level and a higher top level, Martial has not reached that top level (yet). Two different players, one with speed and technique, one with absolute killer instinct.

However..... Kane is older and seemingly hampered by all his previous injuries. Nothing is stopping Martial if he continues this form and doesn’t fall into his periods where you don’t see him on the pitch. Also, it’s not like his tally in the league was particularly impressive this season... our top scorer should net 25 goals in this day and age, his average level must go up a notch or two. Remember, we’re 30 points behind the winner and so many goals behind it’s ridiculous.. I’m not happy with that, we need to score more goals.

News flash, there was really no difference in the number of goals scored by their forwards compared with ours.
They won the league when their top scorer had 19!
The lack of goals was because we where over reliant on our forwards to score goals. How about we distribute the goals elsewhere?

He has alot of improvement he must do to his game but we getting a Kane won't make us close that gap, not in a million years. Our team is distinctly lacking in goals from other areas. Let's hope Bruno, Pogba and our RWF can contribute to our goals next season.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

It’s not really lazy journalism, lots of people are/were uncertain about Martial and I still am too. Not if he keeps up a certain level for a long time, then everyone will shut up, but he never really has. Blows hot and cold, often plays badly or just not involved in games, then suddenly comes back again. Point being; his lowest level is lower than what you expect from a top striker. He is often on fire when the team is on fire, but does very little out of nothing over time when the team is struggling. Kane has a higher general level and a higher top level, Martial has not reached that top level (yet). Two different players, one with speed and technique, one with absolute killer instinct.

However..... Kane is older and seemingly hampered by all his previous injuries. Nothing is stopping Martial if he continues this form and doesn’t fall into his periods where you don’t see him on the pitch. Also, it’s not like his tally in the league was particularly impressive this season... our top scorer should net 25 goals in this day and age, his average level must go up a notch or two. Remember, we’re 30 points behind the winner and so many goals behind it’s ridiculous.. I’m not happy with that, we need to score more goals.

Christ you seemingly haven’t seen a lot of top strikers when they aren’t in scoring form. And if Martial “kept up this form” he’d be best in the world quality considering he scored or assisted in almost every game since the restart. These standards are impossible for anyone to reach yet our fans have them because they think he sulks or is too inconsistent, which is something that can be said about pretty much our entire team for years.

 

[Luke1995]

I thought Scholes wanted to be a manager ? Other than a brief time at Oldham, he didn't really pursue it.

Talking about Manchester United will always generate controversy. They do it because people will watch.

 

[Yagami]

Martial is our most important player. He's the last player needing to be replaced.

Who does Rashford link-up best with? Martial.
Who does Pogba link-up best with? Martial.
Who does Fernandes link-up best with? Martial.
Who does Greenwood link-up best with? Martial.

He's the one who glues our attack together. Martial can link-up well with anyone. That's how good he is. As we saw last night with Mata, who also links-up best with Martial.

 

[Suedesi]

What's a proper striker? Liverpool, City, Madrid don't have one and they seem to be doing fine.

 

[Infordin]

Martial is essentially Firmino with a better conversation rate but inferior workrate (not implying that Martial is lazy, but Firmino is just exceptionally hard working).

 

[adexkola]

What's a proper striker? Liverpool, City, Madrid don't have one and they seem to be doing fine.

Aguero and Big Benz are proper strikers if I ever saw one

Liverpool are doing fine with Firmino, yes

 

[SteveW]

The constant calls to replace Martial are simply an illustration of just how little insight former players and talking heads really provide. Martial's growth and evolution as a centre forward should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has watched us closely all season. He's becoming very complete. He looks incredibly happy and motivated. He links up beautifully with all of our other attackers and I think he'll easily hit 25 PL goals next season. He's turning into the player we all hoped he could be.

Replacing him now would be stupid, expensive and pointless. Greenwood will be the competition for him and at his current rate of physical progression will be more than ready to play up front when needed by Jan when Ighalo leaves. Sorted. Spend the transfer funds elsewhere.

 

[Sb_16]

At this point there's no point in trying to convince doubters. The more you push the more they fight back. Childish. I understand the compliments can be over the top sometimes. But his progression this season has been a linear one and now is one of the irreplaceable names on the first team. The most important player for the fluency of out front 4/5.

What do people want really? For this team, a fluent interchanging front three all equally capable of scoring 20 league goals is better than a 30 goal striker who gets the majority of goals.

However, it would be beneficial if we can find an upgrade on Ighalo for a few years.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

If you weren't sure Martial is a top striker, Ian Wright saying he isn't should remove any doubt. He makes Paul Merson look like a genius.

 

[jem]

If he likes him so much why does he want him replaced?

I love Paul Scholes but I don't always feel that this statements are particularly well-thought out.

 

[Gasolin]

Martial is essentially Firmino with a better conversation rate but inferior workrate (not implying that Martial is lazy, but Firmino is just exceptionally hard working).

I think that is the aspect Ole is addressing and it's starting to show. Ole mentioned the physical stats of Martial finally going up recently.

 

[Gasolin]

Aguero and Big Benz are proper strikers if I ever saw one

Liverpool are doing fine with Firmino, yes

Benzema? I don't know about that. He was under the shadow of Cristiano, and after that, he was still a striker that participates more in the game than a "classic" striker. Only Aguero could be thought as a pure forward.

 

[Arka_BleedingRed]

Aguero and Big Benz are proper strikers if I ever saw one

Liverpool are doing fine with Firmino, yes

If Benzema and Aguero are proper strikers, so is Martial well on his way to be one too. In terms of style, Benz is quite similar to Martial, more so than Firmino, as they are from the same Lyon Academy.

I think the poster you quoted may be referring to the classic No. 9 that the English press so fondly like to harp on about, despite all evidence showing that it's well on it's way to extinction, rapidly being replaced by a fluid, interchangeable front three, who are all capable of playing center or drifting wide as per situation. In fact, Kane is probably England's last 'proper striker', so as to speak. The next generation's attackers are much more technical and fluid.

So, if everyone is ditching the lone, classic no. 9, why should Man United, the best club in England go for a seemingly outdated tactic, when they can have much more. Going by the season he has had, Tony has vastly improved on his hold up play, link up play, passing and showed his underrated strength and power to hold off some of the league's best defenders, all the while, still mesmerizing us with his technical skills. As a fan, why would I want to settle for something less? If he consistently shows next season too what he has shown this season, for me, Anthony would be right up there along with the league's best strike force.

 

[Lentwood]

Martial this season has been as good as any CF in England. No coincidence that our worst form coincided with him being out injured.

 

[Suedesi]

Aguero and Big Benz are proper strikers if I ever saw one

Liverpool are doing fine with Firmino, yes

You're right about Aguero, totally forgot him he must have been injured so long

Benz is an amazing player - just not a traditional #9 imo

 

[redshaw]

Martial is establishing himself in the forward role and I wouldn't bet against him taking it after so long being pushed to the side with the Ibra, Jose and Sanchez situations.

If Spurs can't improve then I see Kane doing a Sheringham in a few years time and becoming a top sub/backup player for a big club. With his contract, age and transfer fee I just don't see anyone coming in at the moment. The ship sailed when he resigned. Zaha is in a similar position, signed a long contract at Palace and to be close to his family, then changed his mind and now wants to move up.

 

[Greck]

Benzema? I don't know about that. He was under the shadow of Cristiano, and after that, he was still a striker that participates more in the game than a "classic" striker. Only Aguero could be thought as a pure forward.

Was thinking the same. Benzema isn't a classic 9. He gets his numbers but his value in their attack wasnt scoring. Aguero and Benzema are different breeds although Pep has changed Aguero to be more team-centric around the goal. Many modern systems use front 3s and want a striker facilitating the line.

If Kane was available for 50m we would be all over it but he isn't. Also get the feeling these guys think we should get a traditional hug the touchline winger while we're at it

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

United had the exact same creativity issues when Lukaku was here. ...............

we dont. We played most of first part of this season without Pogba. Lost Matic too Literally having zero creativity of any kind in midfield. We are entirely relying on our flanks and the counter attack to score. At no point did we rely strictly n the counter for goals when Lukaku was around. we played down the middle and the left flank

Scoring one more definitely wouldn’t have made him irreplaceable.

That is because there a lot of other things Lukaku did not add to the attack apart from just goals. Martial in comparison is a very big part of why Rahsford is also on 17 league goals and would have been on more if he hadn't missed over 3 months with injury.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think that is the aspect Ole is addressing and it's starting to show. Ole mentioned the physical stats of Martial finally going up recently.

He's definitely improved in that regard and I think that's the biggest difference. He doesn't get lost in games anymore. It would be incredible if he hits Firmino levels of workrate though, I think he has clocked 14km in some games.

 

[romufc]

So we need Harry Kane? I am going to compare him to Martial this season.

You can see this agenda that we need an all rounder no.9 is based on ariel ability only. Martial gets involved in the play alot more than Kane, better passing accuracy and is just as cilinical.

	Martial	Kane
Mins played	2638	2589
Passes	712	553
Passing Accuracy %	80.6	66.7
Duels won %	36.6	42.4
Ariel Duels %	23	39
Goals (non penalty)	17	16
Assists	6	2
Chances Created	30	27
Shooting accuracy	68%	60%
Offsides	12	20
Fouls won	41	44

 

[Rightnr]

The pundits on TV are either clueless or lazy because they don't watch enough of our games to opine correctly and objectively, so they just spout their media-driven agenda.

Now you may disagree they're clueless since they're ex-pros but that to me makes it worse. They're calling for someone to essentially lose their job (first-team place) in Martial without actually having the information to make that conclusion.

On top of that, getting someone like Kane who (IMO) is more interested in increasing his goal tally than making sure we win is bad for us as a team and club.

So we need Harry Kane? I am going to compare him to Martial this season.

You can see this agenda that we need an all rounder no.9 is based on ariel ability only. Martial gets involved in the play alot more than Kane, better passing accuracy and is just as cilinical.

Spot on. Martial is overall the better footballer which is what's needed in our system.

I also think he can significantly improve his aerial game because he's shown he can do it. This is where OGS comes in.

 

[Dante]

The pundits on TV are either clueless or lazy because they don't watch enough of our games to opine correctly and objectively, so they just spout their media-driven agenda.

Now you may disagree they're clueless since they're ex-pros but that to me makes it worse. They're calling for someone to essentially lose their job (first-team place) in Martial without actually having the information to make that conclusion.

On top of that, getting someone like Kane who (IMO) is more interested in increasing his goal tally than making sure we win is bad for us as a team and club.


Spot on. Martial is overall the better footballer which is what's needed in our system.

I also think he can significantly improve his aerial game because he's shown he can do it. This is where OGS comes in.

That opinion is no more or less lazy than any pundit's.

 

[Green_Red]

Clickbait comments, simple as that.

Nobody in their right mind that watches Martial could say he isn't a quality player. To even start comparing him to Kane, who just a couple of years ago was putting up numbers comparable to Ronaldo and Messi, just goes to show how good he is.

23 goals in all comps, I put him down for 25 at the start of the season, thats a good return for anyone and given this is the first season we've seen him as an out and out #9 I think we'll only see him get better and better in that position. At 24 years old he is easily in the top 5 strikers in the Premier League.

 

[adexkola]

If Benzema and Aguero are proper strikers, so is Martial well on his way to be one too. In terms of style, Benz is quite similar to Martial, more so than Firmino, as they are from the same Lyon Academy.

I think the poster you quoted may be referring to the classic No. 9 that the English press so fondly like to harp on about, despite all evidence showing that it's well on it's way to extinction, rapidly being replaced by a fluid, interchangeable front three, who are all capable of playing center or drifting wide as per situation. In fact, Kane is probably England's last 'proper striker', so as to speak. The next generation's attackers are much more technical and fluid.

So, if everyone is ditching the lone, classic no. 9, why should Man United, the best club in England go for a seemingly outdated tactic, when they can have much more. Going by the season he has had, Tony has vastly improved on his hold up play, link up play, passing and showed his underrated strength and power to hold off some of the league's best defenders, all the while, still mesmerizing us with his technical skills. As a fan, why would I want to settle for something less? If he consistently shows next season too what he has shown this season, for me, Anthony would be right up there along with the league's best strike force.

Ah I misread "proper striker". I get @Suedesi's point now. I don't think the traditional striker is obsolete, you just need the right system. The same way I think Martial is just fine for the system we have.

 

[romufc]

The pundits on TV are either clueless or lazy because they don't watch enough of our games to opine correctly and objectively, so they just spout their media-driven agenda.

Now you may disagree they're clueless since they're ex-pros but that to me makes it worse. They're calling for someone to essentially lose their job (first-team place) in Martial without actually having the information to make that conclusion.

On top of that, getting someone like Kane who (IMO) is more interested in increasing his goal tally than making sure we win is bad for us as a team and club.


Spot on. Martial is overall the better footballer which is what's needed in our system.

I also think he can significantly improve his aerial game because he's shown he can do it. This is where OGS comes in.

Ofcourse he can, he is given the opportunity and I can only see him improving.

Kane would have been perfect 18 months ago for us, he is a complete different player to what we need, which is a fluid system. I don't know if these pundits making these noises have watched what Martial does? Even the goal against LASK, I do not think Kane can do that.

Merson is a crap pundit anyway.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Is it still ongoing?
Seems quiet in recent months since this restart.

Easily because Martial performed like a top CF consistently and that shut them up.

 

[Rightnr]

That opinion is no more or less lazy than any pundit's.

Well, this is the exemplification of irony. One sentence with no arguments or logic calling my opinion lazy.

This lack of self-awareness is on the level of Mourinho.

 

[Eugenius]

It's a lazy media opinion but quite frankly there were a lot our supporters (at least on the caf) who not long along were swallowing Mourinho's disinformation hook line and sinker:
- calling him lazy
- saying his off the ball movement was rubbish & he doesn't run in behind
- insulting his general intelligence (saying his school teachers said he struggled academically and other wacky claims)
- claiming he was selfish for wanting to be present at the birth of his child
- generally underrating his ability (and ignoring what he showed as CF under LvG) and supporting playing Sanchez ahead of him
- calling anyone who disagreed with the above 'Martial FC'

For journos who watch our games occasionally and have a look at social media to form their opinions, is it any wonder it's taking time to change opinions.

Similarly if you remember Ronaldo was literally the best player in the world by 2007 and you still had idiots calling him a one trick pony who didn't show up for big games.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Paul Parker mentioned it again on Talksport this morning as though 30 goal a season strikers grow on trees. They want a proper striker as they describe it. They all obviously want Harry Kane, but we could blow a hundred million on him and he doesn't do it at United. There are plenty of strikers who have failed here. The only way would be get a cheap option to replace Ighalo. Martial is doing fine as far as I am concerned.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

RVP, Scholes and Hargreaves giving him a serious amount of admiration and praise.
RVP said he’s world class.
The rest of the clowns in the media need to take note.

 

[Santoryo]

RVP, Scholes and Hargreaves giving him a serious amount of admiration and praise.
RVP said he’s world class.
The rest of the clowns in the media need to take note.

Don't worry, Martial just has too much abilities for most of these clown to keep ignoring without looking like fools. This was a warm up season for Martial after finally being a consistent presence in the starting line up after 3 years in limbo under Mourinho. Next season should be an amazing one for Martial and the acknowledgements will come.

 

[b82REZ]

RVP, Scholes and Hargreaves giving him a serious amount of admiration and praise.
RVP said he’s world class.
The rest of the clowns in the media need to take note.

Tbf Scholes said we should prorotise Kane over Sancho this summer because we need "a proper number 9".

I think RvP speaking so highly over Martial made Scholes back peddle a bit on his opinion from the other night.

Martial is really starting to show the potential we all knew he had and is more of a modern striker than a lot yhe pundits are accustomed to, which is why we get daft calls for United to sign another striker.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Tbf Scholes said we should prioritise Kane over Sancho this summer because we need "a proper number 9".

I think RvP speaking so highly over Martial made Scholes back peddle a bit on his opinion from the other night.

I didn’t actually know Scholes said that recently. In that case, yes, he had a different opinion tonight due to listening to RVP.

 

[b82REZ]

I didn’t actually know Scholes said that recently. In that case, yes, he had a different opinion tonight due to listening to RVP.

My favourite ever player but Scholes is a very poor pundit and a lot of his opinions seem dated.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I didn’t actually know Scholes said that recently. In that case, yes, he had a different opinion tonight due to listening to RVP.

He is never consistent with his opinions and thats the issue.

Regarding Kane, the issue isnt that he is not a good player but striker is the least of our issues. Why would we go and spend 150m or whatever crazy amount to bring him when we still need other positions.

 

[davidmichael]

When’s he's on form I wouldn’t swap Martial for any other striker in the league at all as at his best he’s unplayable, the day’s of strikers just banging in goals is very dated and the modern striker needs to be an all rounder rather than just goals (outside of those pair of freaks Messi and Ronaldo) which Martial is now becoming.

He’s got great pace, underrated power, a great finisher, dribbling ability, can hold the ball up, works the channels, can pass and assist and what people forget is this is his first ever full season as a central striker and he’s 24 years old with a good 6-7 years ahead of him at the top level at least.

 

[Betson]

He is never consistent with his opinions and thats the issue.

Regarding Kane, the issue isnt that he is not a good player but striker is the least of our issues. Why would we go and spend 150m or whatever crazy amount to bring him when we still need other positions.

Those who have the same opinion of Martial from the last few season to what we have seen the latter half of this season, are simply not calling it the way it is is at the time.

Because attitude and production wise they are two different players , it is not inconsistent to criticize Martial on past performances and praise him for his recent form.

Even Solskear has said Martial is doing a lot more work in training in recent months and is a more more focused player than we have seen previously.

As Hargraves said last night everyone always knew there is potentially a top player in him , but as he said it was also a valid question mark over him to ask if he applied himself as much as he could of in the past.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Those who have the same opinion of Martial from the last few season to what we have seen the latter half of this season, are simply not calling it the way it is is at the time.

Because attitude and production wise they are two different players , it is not inconsistent to criticize Martial on past performances and praise him for his recent form.

Even Solskear has said Martial is doing a lot more work in training in recent months and is a more more focused player than we have seen previously.

As Hargraves said last night everyone always knew there is potentially a top player in him , but as he said it was also a valid question mark over him to ask if he applied himself as much as he could of in the past.

Scholes was literally talking on Friday before the game, he said united needed a propper number 9. Then 4 days later he says Martial is a proper number 9. Thats not inconsistent to you?