The curious case of Patrick Dorgu

[Shakesy]

Pity most of our players turn into curious cases

 

[PoTMS]

He's not very good. A period of 3 or 4 games where he played well doesn't change that.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I wonder if people actually watch our games.

Last season prior to his injury and after Carrick took over he was literally one of our best players for a sequence of 10 games or so.

He banged in some sensational goals and was a huge threat in attack. Any premier league team that plays in transition would love to have that kind of threat on their team.

Why the need to devalue a player we only paid 25 million for? Based on current prices he is at least a 55 million pound player maybe more.

If someone offered 50+ million for Dorgu I’d snap their arm off. That’s just me though.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

It’s pretty mad how quickly people go back to calling our own players utterly dogshit after a poor performance when he’d been doing well in the league for a fair few performances before it.

Almost like some are hoping for the games to come around so they can prove they were right. It doesn’t have to be so black and white. Can we not appreciate the potential and good games whilst also seeing he played poorly at Hull and not completely writing him off?

 

[Zumbi]

It’s pretty mad how quickly people go back to calling our own players utterly dogshit after a poor performance when he’d been doing well in the league for a fair few performances before it.

Almost like some are hoping for the games to come around so they can prove they were right. It doesn’t have to be so black and white. Can we not appreciate the potential and good games whilst also seeing he played poorly at Hull and not completely writing him off?

Yep. Worth remembering that in our most recent competitive game before Hull he got a goal and assist.

 

[SirScholes]

Would be a strange question then, or certainly an incomplete one. If ‘selling him isn’t the answer’, you would think there was a problem where a proposed solution was to sell. So what is that problem? He is shit? He is the third best left winger we have? We need a left back, for example, and can only acquire one if we sell someone for decent money?

Why has the question as to whether we should sell arisen?

directing this at the wrong person

 

[Mr. Burns Tuchel]

It’s pretty mad how quickly people go back to calling our own players utterly dogshit after a poor performance when he’d been doing well in the league for a fair few performances before it.

Almost like some are hoping for the games to come around so they can prove they were right. It doesn’t have to be so black and white. Can we not appreciate the potential and good games whilst also seeing he played poorly at Hull and not completely writing him off?

Yep. Worth remembering that in our most recent competitive game before Hull he got a goal and assist.

can you please check all of @PoTMS Last posts! Its hilarious every single post is negative talking about the club, spending, our new midfield, Dorgu, Bruno, Hull. Literally every single one! I've never seen anything like it.

its literally eye opening how vile and lack of support by central rightness some fans have.

What's that type of supporter called who got in to supporting United just because they won games?

They will now talk about how we are brainwashed at the standards of the club or something to act like they actually provide support by setting up unrealistic standards that no one above them is looking at.

 

[RedRoach]

If someone offered 50+ million for Dorgu I’d snap their arm off. That’s just me though.

Probably I would do the same but let’s not pretend Dorgu is way worse than some of the average players that have gone for 50 million already this window.

 

[RedIan]

Toxic fan base who turn on players very quickly.

Dorgu was the dogs danglers for a period last season and every one was gutted when he got injured. Hes 21 and still developing (as are others, including £70mill sesko) he will come good.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Toxic fan base who turn on players very quickly.

Dorgu was the dogs danglers for a period last season and every one was gutted when he got injured. Hes 21 and still developing (as are others, including £70mill sesko) he will come good.

I think this place might be the most reactionary forum around. Maybe all top club fan bases are like this? But the agenda against a young player like Dorgu with obvious potential is wild to me.

 

[Raoul]

Toxic fan base who turn on players very quickly.

Dorgu was the dogs danglers for a period last season and every one was gutted when he got injured. Hes 21 and still developing (as are others, including £70mill sesko) he will come good.

Agreed. Its easy to remember how young he still is, all the while having had to parachute into a United in transition from Amorim's wing backs to a more traditional attacking role under Carrick. Expectations should be moderated and all of his unexpected goals are a bonus.

 

[Apokalips]

Toxic fan base who turn on players very quickly.

Dorgu was the dogs danglers for a period last season and every one was gutted when he got injured. Hes 21 and still developing (as are others, including £70mill sesko) he will come good.

Dorgu is super young and I like him a lot, especially how he manages to get himself into dangerous areas, but he has a lot to work on. I want us to nurture him and develop him but I don't think he is a first choice winger, or even a winger at all, the way people are pushing him.

You say people turn on players quickly, but he became overhyped because of a small purple patch also so it swung both ways with him because he was consistently labelled a crap prior to that burst of form. The truth is usually somewhere in between, I think people are carried away on both ends, because he is not rubbish but nor is he an electrifying, dangerous winger that people project him to be because of a handful of good performances.

We need to nurture him but not rely on him to carry us forward, we have to stop getting carried away by purple patches and thrusting high importance on these young players - see Hojlund, Januzaj, Garnacho, Rashford, etc. What we need is to target some elite talent in the wide areas both forward and full back and let Dorgu develop behind those players the way Fergie would have done. Too often in post Fergie period, we have gifted positions to players too easily without top competition for their places and before they have proven to be consistently special and then we wonder why things keep falling apart.

 

[Dazzmondo]

I really wish we had tried Dorgu on the right wing. He's performed well there for Denmark. If he could perform there it would help a lot. We'd then have him as an option on both wings with Cunha and Rashford for the lw, and Amad, Lacey, Mbeumo for rw with Mbeumo being mostly a striker (at least until Sesko is fit enough and good enough to be starting). The biggest problem is that Carrick doesn't like Cunha as a lw imo.

 

[Zumbi]

I really wish we had tried Dorgu on the right wing. He's performed well there for Denmark. If he could perform there it would help a lot. We'd then have him as an option on both wings with Cunha and Rashford for the lw, and Amad, Lacey, Mbeumo for rw with Mbeumo being mostly a striker (at least until Sesko is fit enough and good enough to be starting). The biggest problem is that Carrick doesn't like Cunha as a lw imo.

Agreed. I’m still absolutely baffled that it wasn’t Dorgu right, Mbeumo up tip and Cunha left in the last match after Amad dropped out. That made so much more sense to me. Mbeumo was scoring from 9 in pre-seasons and Cunha is better carrying from deep than playing with his back to goal.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Why do we need this thread when we already have the player performance forum?!

It's just discussing the exact same thing!

 

[Frank White]

Agreed. I’m still absolutely baffled that it wasn’t Dorgu right, Mbeumo up tip and Cunha left in the last match after Amad dropped out. That made so much more sense to me. Mbeumo was scoring from 9 in pre-seasons and Cunha is better carrying from deep than playing with his back to goal.

Has he ever played there before for us? Cunha was decent for Brazil there at the WC, RW is Mbeumo's natural position and the general consensus prior to the Hull game was Dorgu is a left sided player. Nothing baffling about it really just the lot of them had a rough game.

 

[Zumbi]

Has he ever played there before for us? Cunha was decent for Brazil there at the WC, RW is Mbeumo's natural position and the general consensus prior to the Hull game was Dorgu is a left sided player. Nothing baffling about it really just the lot of them had a rough game.

He has, yeah, but can’t remember the game. He’s also played there for Denmark - scored an absolute banger from there cutting in on his left. And at Lecce he played both flanks.

Mbeumo was played up front for us all through pre-season and was scoring goals there. Why change it as soon as the league starts? Cunha playing up front for Brazil in international football is very different to the PL. He looks much better with space ahead of him than playing back to goal in the more physical PL.

 

[Devil81]

He's just getting up to speed like all the team, really annoyed with how unfit they were in fairness.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He has, yeah, but can’t remember the game. He’s also played there for Denmark - scored an absolute banger from there cutting in on his left. And at Lecce he played both flanks.

Mbeumo was played up front for us all through pre-season and was scoring goals there. Why change it as soon as the league starts? Cunha playing up front for Brazil in international football is very different to the PL. He looks much better with space ahead of him than playing back to goal in the more physical PL.

Newcastle at home?

 

[Zumbi]

Newcastle at home?

Yes! Pretty sure that was it.

 

[Lash]

He has, yeah, but can’t remember the game. He’s also played there for Denmark - scored an absolute banger from there cutting in on his left. And at Lecce he played both flanks.

Mbeumo was played up front for us all through pre-season and was scoring goals there. Why change it as soon as the league starts? Cunha playing up front for Brazil in international football is very different to the PL. He looks much better with space ahead of him than playing back to goal in the more physical PL.

Newcastle, under Amorim no less, in a 4-3-3.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

Its not a curious case tbh. Its pretty straight forward, he was signed because we had a manager who liked a system which required wingbacks who could run all day long in help equally in attack and defense. Once he left, Dorgu kind of became redundant. Carrick did try to resurrect his career and tried to fit him in as LW, which is workable in tough matches and we have used players like Park, Fletcher etc as workhorses in big matches, but honestly these players were far more talented and assured on the ball then Dorgu is.

He is not a defender as his one on one defending is very average. Plus playing him in defense means him losing the ball in defense and resulting in dangerous attacks close to goal. Which is probable reason why Carrick does not want him there. This was hinted by Carl Anka as well during TOTD.

Whereas, he is not a great attacker either. This was all obvious to anybody who looked at the stats and then was further reinforced when we watched him live. He thrived in physicality, running, sprints, duels etc. He was never great as a passer, dribbler or finisher.

I have been critical of this signing, because frankly he is not at the technical level required at Manutd and may never be. At this level very few players I have seen at Utd which are soo bad at basic football skills like passing, shooting, dribbling, first touches, lack of spatial awareness etc. I do not blame him, he seems like a great lad. But blame lies on the scouting and people above. They spent 30M for a player which is extremely poor and would have been useless for us once Amorim was gone. Despite, being told all of our signings were for all future managers.

 

[Zumbi]

Newcastle, under Amorim no less, in a 4-3-3.

Yep, match winning volley.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He's just getting up to speed like all the team, really annoyed with how unfit they were in fairness.

To be fair though he’s the only attacker besides Mbeumo who’s had a full preseason playing LW in every single game(?) so if anyone should have been ready to perform in the first game, it’s them.

 

[Frank White]

He has, yeah, but can’t remember the game. He’s also played there for Denmark - scored an absolute banger from there cutting in on his left. And at Lecce he played both flanks.

Mbeumo was played up front for us all through pre-season and was scoring goals there. Why change it as soon as the league starts? Cunha playing up front for Brazil in international football is very different to the PL. He looks much better with space ahead of him than playing back to goal in the more physical PL.

I assume it was because Amad was injured so we needed a right winger and that's Mbeumo's position.

 

[Lash]

Its not a curious case tbh. Its pretty straight forward, he was signed because we had a manager who liked a system which required wingbacks who could run all day long in help equally in attack and defense. Once he left, Dorgu kind of became redundant. Carrick did try to resurrect his career and tried to fit him in as LW, which is workable in tough matches and we have used players like Park, Fletcher etc as workhorses in big matches, but honestly these players were far more talented and assured on the ball then Dorgu is.

He is not a defender as his one on one defending is very average. Plus playing him in defense means him losing the ball in defense and resulting in dangerous attacks close to goal. Which is probable reason why Carrick does not want him there. This was hinted by Carl Anka as well during TOTD.

Whereas, he is not a great attacker either. This was all obvious to anybody who looked at the stats and then was further reinforced when we watched him live. He thrived in physicality, running, sprints, duels etc. He was never great as a passer, dribbler or finisher.

I have been critical of this signing, because frankly he is not at the technical level required at Manutd and may never be. At this level very few players I have seen at Utd which are soo bad at basic football skills like passing, shooting, dribbling, first touches, lack of spatial awareness etc. I do not blame him, he seems like a great lad. But blame lies on the scouting and people above. They spent 30M for a player which is extremely poor and would have been useless for us once Amorim was gone. Despite, being told all of our signings were for all future managers.

I mean you might not like him, but there's no need to just make up stuff.

 

[Devil81]

To be fair though he’s the only attacker besides Mbeumo who’s had a full preseason playing LW in every single game(?) so if anyone should have been ready to perform in the first game, it’s them.

Bit hard for anyone to perform at the top level if half your team are woefully unfit.

We're not talking about Sunday league.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Bit hard for anyone to perform at the top level if half your team are woefully unfit.

We're not talking about Sunday league.

And yet he was the one to get pulled at half time, for a guy who missed all of pre-season and still he was shown up.

 

[Trigestis]

I mean you might not like him, but there's no need to just make up stuff.

That poster does exactly that in players' threads - make up stuff. Same with Andrey Santos and others. Just says random things that are easily verifiably false.

 

[Champ]

Its not a curious case tbh. Its pretty straight forward, he was signed because we had a manager who liked a system which required wingbacks who could run all day long in help equally in attack and defense. Once he left, Dorgu kind of became redundant. Carrick did try to resurrect his career and tried to fit him in as LW, which is workable in tough matches and we have used players like Park, Fletcher etc as workhorses in big matches, but honestly these players were far more talented and assured on the ball then Dorgu is.

He is not a defender as his one on one defending is very average. Plus playing him in defense means him losing the ball in defense and resulting in dangerous attacks close to goal. Which is probable reason why Carrick does not want him there. This was hinted by Carl Anka as well during TOTD.

Whereas, he is not a great attacker either. This was all obvious to anybody who looked at the stats and then was further reinforced when we watched him live. He thrived in physicality, running, sprints, duels etc. He was never great as a passer, dribbler or finisher.

I have been critical of this signing, because frankly he is not at the technical level required at Manutd and may never be. At this level very few players I have seen at Utd which are soo bad at basic football skills like passing, shooting, dribbling, first touches, lack of spatial awareness etc. I do not blame him, he seems like a great lad. But blame lies on the scouting and people above. They spent 30M for a player which is extremely poor and would have been useless for us once Amorim was gone. Despite, being told all of our signings were for all future managers.

Why do people persist on claiming such and such player has poor technique or is really bad at basic skills?
We had the same with McTominay who proved everyone wrong in spectacular fashion, we also hear the same with Maguire, we also bizarrely hear it with players like Haaland...

These are international level players, they play at the elite for teams that perform at the highest level, they possess great techniques and are extremely talented players.
This sort of talk needs to die a death, it's pathetic.

 

[Frank White]

I mean you might not like him, but there's no need to just make up stuff.

He's being harsh on his shooting ability but the rest is pretty accurate, especially the first touch, passing and dribbling part. Hull aside he really needs to tighten up the technical side of his game, physically I put him up there with the best in the squad but his on the ball stuff needs major work.

 

[Trigestis]

He's being harsh on his shooting ability but the rest is pretty accurate, especially the first touch, passing and dribbling part. Hull aside he really needs to tighten up the technical side of his game, physically I put him up there with the best in the squad but his on the ball stuff needs major work.

He is also saying that he is extremely poor and that he is useless, so I'd say he's not pretty accurate.

 

[Frank White]

He is also saying that he is extremely poor and that he is useless, so I'd say he's not pretty accurate.

Was talking specifically about the bolded part of the quote. He's obviously not useless at 21 but there are some pretty big holes in his game when it comes to his on the ball work.

 

[Lash]

He's being harsh on his shooting ability but the rest is pretty accurate, especially the first touch, passing and dribbling part. Hull aside he really needs to tighten up the technical side of his game, physically I put him up there with the best in the squad but his on the ball stuff needs major work.

Definitely, but he's no where near the finished article. the Hull game isn't indicative of his level, when we have examples against top teams of what he can do.

 

[Zumbi]

Its not a curious case tbh. Its pretty straight forward, he was signed because we had a manager who liked a system which required wingbacks who could run all day long in help equally in attack and defense. Once he left, Dorgu kind of became redundant. Carrick did try to resurrect his career and tried to fit him in as LW, which is workable in tough matches and we have used players like Park, Fletcher etc as workhorses in big matches, but honestly these players were far more talented and assured on the ball then Dorgu is.

He is not a defender as his one on one defending is very average. Plus playing him in defense means him losing the ball in defense and resulting in dangerous attacks close to goal. Which is probable reason why Carrick does not want him there. This was hinted by Carl Anka as well during TOTD.

Whereas, he is not a great attacker either. This was all obvious to anybody who looked at the stats and then was further reinforced when we watched him live. He thrived in physicality, running, sprints, duels etc. He was never great as a passer, dribbler or finisher.

I have been critical of this signing, because frankly he is not at the technical level required at Manutd and may never be. At this level very few players I have seen at Utd which are soo bad at basic football skills like passing, shooting, dribbling, first touches, lack of spatial awareness etc. I do not blame him, he seems like a great lad. But blame lies on the scouting and people above. They spent 30M for a player which is extremely poor and would have been useless for us once Amorim was gone. Despite, being told all of our signings were for all future managers.

He didn’t become redundant under Carrick though did he? He put in stellar performances and scored some very important goals against City and Arsenal before his injury and then against Brighton at the end of the season when he returned from injury. He often provided the sort of directness we lacked. We have too small a sample size to judge him on, but he done more then enough in his limited wing performances so far to earn some more opportunities this year. It’s just up to Carrick to pick the right games for him.

 

[Frank White]

Definitely, but he's no where near the finished article. the Hull game isn't indicative of his level, when we have examples against top teams of what he can do.

100% he's not. He's a kid. Just against Hull or teams of similar stature his deficiencies on the ball are there to see. I'm not even talking about him attempting to take players on, all wingers lose the ball every now and then I'm talking more so about the 5 yard passes the he routinely makes a meal out of.

There's definitely something in it that he's looked his best when we get dominated possession wise.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

Why do people persist on claiming such and such player has poor technique or is really bad at basic skills?
We had the same with McTominay who proved everyone wrong in spectacular fashion, we also hear the same with Maguire, we also bizarrely hear it with players like Haaland...

These are international level players, they play at the elite for teams that perform at the highest level, they possess great techniques and are extremely talented players.
This sort of talk needs to die a death, it's pathetic.

So do you think all players who similar level of technique? Some are obviously far better which makes them look more comfortable and better than others. Do you think Dorgu has a similar technique as Evra? In fact in terms of technique he is worst than Dalot and Maz, who are no world beaters themselves.

For the other players, Mctominay was a solid player for us and he was technically alright. His problem was, he was never a 6, where we tried to fit him in. Similarly he was never getting ahead of Bruno as a 10. I think for his sake its great that he moved on and loving his life. But the example could not have been further away from my point. Mctominay had good technique, we would never play him in his best position, where he is thriving.

Harry dilly dallies on the ball, but his passing and technique is very good for a CB. Haaland is a freak, his hold up play, strength, pace, shot power and finishing are like elite tier, he does not need to have great touches or passing. The point is not about being perfect at everything, no player is, but at his position he needs to be good at those skills which are required. For Dorgu, since he plays LB, he needs to be a good defender which he is not. For LW, he is not a great dribbler, crosser, shooting, passing, linkup etc all are very weak. What he is good at are pace, physicality and running.

 

[Lash]

100% he's not. He's a kid. Just against Hull or teams of similar stature his deficiencies on the ball are there to see. I'm not even talking about him attempting to take players on, all wingers lose the ball every now and then I'm talking more so about the 5 yard passes the he routinely makes a meal out of.

There's definitely something in it that he's looked his best when we get dominated possession wise.

I think collectively we fail a bit as well. He's not gonna be like Semenyo, but if we make patterns for 1-2s and he can attack the back post well, we have a solid attacker in the ranks and certainly someone who would play in the big games.

 

[Zumbi]

I assume it was because Amad was injured so we needed a right winger and that's Mbeumo's position.

But Carrick himself has chosen to play Mbeumo up front as much as RW - he was often starting Mbeumo ahead of Sesko last season. And Mbeumo’s most dangerous in and around the box, and he had been scoring goals there in pre-season, so I’m struggling to see why Cunha was suddenly judged a better option there. Dorgu or Lacey on the right seems like a better replacement for Amad there than Cunha is for Mbeumo up top.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

He didn’t become redundant under Carrick though did he? He put in stellar performances and scored some very important goals against City and Arsenal before his injury and then against Brighton at the end of the season when he returned from injury. He often provided the sort of directness we lacked. We have too small a sample size to judge him on, but he done more then enough in his limited wing performances so far to earn some more opportunities this year. It’s just up to Carrick to pick the right games for him.

He was awful throughout the pre-season as well. I know pre-season only but just reaffirms the point that against teams where we need to open the defense, he does not have the guile to perform at that level. He did well for those games as those games are where, I do agree he has his uses, as we will defending a lot and he can help LB, Plus he can run up and down and provide an out ball at counter attacks.