The current negativity and how will it effect next season?

[wolvored]

I think the negativity has built up from the end of the Fergie era. We have gone from the fiasco of Moyes, the boredom of VG and now the defense first play of Mourinho. We have come this season within touching distance of the top, but fell away alarmingly. We need to win the league next season in my opinion. If we dont then being champions will become more a distant memory and obviously the negativity will get worse. If someone had have said to me in summer 1990 Liverpool wouldnt win the league again for 28 (and counting) years, you would have laughed yourself silly and thought they had gone mad. Im not saying we will go that long, but the longer it goes on the harder it becomes. Foreign players look to the other clubs if we aint at the top. We then have to pay more extortionate wages to attract them. Every year the other top clubs will spend more and more on players etc etc

 

[2mufc0]

A couple of top class signings and starting with a clean slate next season will bring the optimism back, let's just hope we start well otherwise the negativity will be quick to return.

 

[wolvored]

Exactly. And it’s a common theme.

I agree if it’s the wrong person (Moyes) then people, including myself, were right to say it’s sll very well having stability but with the wrong man it’s pointless.

However we have Jose Mourinho as manager. We’re improving our league position, winning trophies. I think people just have an agenda against him or are entitled. Oh and our football isn’t boring at all-look at the many 4-0’s we’ve had and beating Liverpool and Chelsea quite comfortably. People on here went quiet after that until the next not so great result.

We didnt beat either team comfortably it was 2-1 both times. In fact we only had 2 shots and scored with both of them in the Liverpool game.

 

[prath92]

We didnt beat either team comfortably it was 2-1 both times. In fact we only had 2 shots and scored with both of them in the Liverpool game.

The Liverpool game was as comfortable as it gets. We could have had O’Shea in goal and still won

 

[Litch]

New season, new start with extra optimism should we have addressed the weaknesses of this season in a couple of world class signings...

 

[Rafaeldagold]

We didnt beat either team comfortably it was 2-1 both times. In fact we only had 2 shots and scored with both of them in the Liverpool game.

This is what I’m talking about. Against a big team it was very comfortable and we never looked liked not winning either.
Some of our fan base just ooze negativity. Nothing is ever enough

 

[wolvored]

This is what I’m talking about. Against a big team it was very comfortable and we never looked liked not winning either.
Some of our fan base just ooze negativity. Nothing is ever enough

I didnt say I was negative about the result. I was just pointing out we didnt win either game comfortably. You win a game comfortably at 3-0 or 4-1 or something like that.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I don’t have any issue at all with the style of play that Mou has United playing. I actually enjoy every match, but that is probably because of how much worse the football was under LVG. Nothing can get that bad.

 

[Marcky411]

This is some simplicity thinking that are heralded by the anti Jose brigade, they think winning what he has won in football is just pure luck and easy because he plays defensive football. This sort of arrogant thinking the next manager would do exponentially better than Mourinho. They think United is too big to fail that all it takes is a modern young unproven manager to simply turn us into Barcelona. The same sort of thinking that makes you guys detest Mourinho and preferred Moyes.

And yes, he is one of the best active manager in the business second only to pep. You can't deny that no matter how hard you try.

Firstly Moyes wasn't mentioned, I was referring to managers that have won several trophies and I used Ancelotti and Pep in my example. I was just pointing out that there are more managers out there than Jose, proven managers. As you stated in the bold bit, it is the same arrogant thinking that only Jose can take us forward and everyone else will fail. I don't detest Jose, I don't know him as a person, but I do have an opinion of the cr@p football he is shovelling us week in week out and that after 2 years.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I didnt say I was negative about the result. I was just pointing out we didnt win either game comfortably. You win a game comfortably at 3-0 or 4-1 or something like that.

Sometimes in football you don’t get the amount of goals your play deserved to make a scoreline look comfortable. That doesn’t mean the match isn’t comfortably in your control.
Or you can win 3-0 with 2 late goals when the match was far from comfortable.

 

[noodlehair]

If we play how we did in the first half of the Swansea game with some kind of consistency between now and the end of the season, I don't think there'll be so much negativity.

Negativity is reactionary for the most part. It spirals into lunacy for sure, but if the team plays well, generally people react positively (and then that also spirals into lunacy).

 

[Morpheus 7]

I see this point being continually made and I have got to think that Jose's negative/defensive tactics has washed off on a lot of fans. Since Jose has come in every transfer window he is looking for a CB, is this the position that really needs addressing. I understand we need coverage in all positions but at CB we have, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Blind and as rumours go we are in for another CB. How many FB's, DM's or even true strikers do we have(and I am not talking about players who can also play in those positions), has our defence been the issue for the past 3-4 years. Even under LvG out defence wasn't bad with Blind and Mike Smalling. We have been one of the few teams in the PL the last couple of years, that have had the least amount of goals conceded but yet we are still on about our defence and buying/replacing CD's.

Jose has had 4 transfer windows and not once has he addressed the FB positions or has thought of buying/replacing a Carrick type player who can control games. He has neither addressed the gaping hole on the RW. We have had Martial and Rashford for the LW, last year the whole summer we were after Perišić, who mainly plays as a LW, didn't get him so in January we go in for Sanchez who plays/wants to play on the LW.
Now it seems Jose's main concern is losing Fellaini, a player who has always been the number 1 player fans thought should never have come to Utd and should've been sold ages ago. Strange enough Jose has now convinced many fans that Fellaini is very important and we mustn't loose him. This is also a manager that has always said if a player wants to leave he won't try and keep them but boy oh boy what has he tried to keep Fellaini, go figure.

I agree with you that we are stacked in CB but not with quality, it's very much quantity. Blind had a good year with Mike Smalling, that was a bad season for us overall, we finished 5th and won the FA cup. Lvg was the most negative manager I've ever seen, it masked real issues. There is one point that you have overlooked massively and it's Dave. I would go as far as saying that he's been responsible for half these clean sheets, I know a goalkeeper is expected to keep them but he's kept way more and made more saves. He's made so many saves and crucial ones to cover weaknesses at the back. The way we've setup has made us harder to break down too. My issue is having CB's that can defend and take the ball out comfortably. Helping us make that transition from defence to attack. Smalling can't, Jones is average, Lindelof has the ability to do it but hasn't performed, Blind isn't in Jose's plans, Bailly is ok but will go long if he doesn't see it, Rojo is aggressive but we haven't seen it enough. Point is, we don't have a quality CB pairing and although we have number's it isn't good enough. We need a pairing that more than like will play most of the season. Even if one gets injured, to have a permanent leader. We are not going to be winning a league with Smalling and Jones for most of the season. We need a world class upgrade on what we have.

 

[Antisocial]

The only fear I really have around the negativity is in the transfer market - leaving wages aside, I’d expect us to be at best the third choice for in demand players after City and Liverpool given the unrelenting love and affection those two teams always get from the media, etc. City fans have never had anything like this good so there’s basically nothing but positivity from them (though some have been spoiled by the owners and are becoming greedy), and Liverpool are basically in the same position because their heyday so very, very long ago that probably most of the fans haven’t felt anything like the positivity they have with Klopp, who is a far better manager than they have any right of having given their status as a club in the Premier League era.

I’d expect any player to be attracted that type of emotion - throw-in the style of play, and I could see a situation where if the three clubs went in for the same player that we’d be third choice right until we start making wage offers. Not sure how much impact the positivity or negativity of a club has in the face of wages, so I think we’ll be OK as long as Woodward carries on his current recruitment policy.

Money talks, and despite City having unlimited money we seem to offer more wages (officially anyway) so as I say, I think we’ll be OK.

 

[Marcky411]

I agree with you that we are stacked in CB but not with quality, it's very much quantity. Blind had a good year with Mike Smalling, that was a bad season for us overall, we finished 5th and won the FA cup. Lvg was the most negative manager I've ever seen, it masked real issues. There is one point that you have overlooked massively and it's Dave. I would go as far as saying that he's been responsible for half these clean sheets, I know a goalkeeper is expected to keep them but he's kept way more and made more saves. He's made so many saves and crucial ones to cover weaknesses at the back. The way we've setup has made us harder to break down too. My issue is having CB's that can defend and take the ball out comfortably. Helping us make that transition from defence to attack. Smalling can't, Jones is average, Lindelof has the ability to do it but hasn't performed, Blind isn't in Jose's plans, Bailly is ok but will go long if he doesn't see it, Rojo is aggressive but we haven't seen it enough. Point is, we don't have a quality CB pairing and although we have number's it isn't good enough. We need a pairing that more than like will play most of the season. Even if one gets injured, to have a permanent leader. We are not going to be winning a league with Smalling and Jones for most of the season. We need a world class upgrade on what we have.

I agree we could do with an upgrade on what we have but the true world class players, who are leaders as well, are of age and are already at big clubs and won't want to move, thus we will have to gamble on potential, like Bailly(definitely no regrets, although has been injured this season). The point I was trying to make was that there are other positions in the team more urgent of addressing than our CD's.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

The only fear I really have around the negativity is in the transfer market - leaving wages aside, I’d expect us to be at best the third choice for in demand players after City and Liverpool given the unrelenting love and affection those two teams always get from the media, etc. City fans have never had anything like this good so there’s basically nothing but positivity from them (though some have been spoiled by the owners and are becoming greedy), and Liverpool are basically in the same position because their heyday so very, very long ago that probably most of the fans haven’t felt anything like the positivity they have with Klopp, who is a far better manager than they have any right of having given their status as a club in the Premier League.

I’d expect any player to be attracted that type of emotion - throw-in the style of play, and I could see a situation where if the three clubs went in for the same player that we’d be third choice right until we start making wage offers. But sure how much impact the positivity or negativity of a club has in the face of wages, so I think we’ll be OK as long as Woodward carries on his current recruitment policy.

Money talks, and despite City having unlimited money we seem to offer more wages (officially anyway) so as I say, I think we’ll be OK.

There’s no way we’d third choice in a players mind behind Liverpool and City.

We are the most famous club in England and in the world.

If you want instant success perhaps you’d pick City and the Guardiola affect. But we are still Manchester United and still relevant with winning things playing in front of 76,000. You’ve reached the pinnacle playing for a club of our stature. So I’d say it’d be close between us.

Liverpool has the history but not much else to offer so I really can’t see where a player would choose them over us, I just can’t see it.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

That depends on the type of individual you are, you've clearly been following the club longer than I've been alive but I could care less that style of football City and Liverpool play

I'd also argue that we haven't played breathtaking attacking football for almost 10 years and that obviously includes Fergies final few seasons

Agree with this. Ronaldo going was pretty much the end of the exciting football. Can't remember timing, but Tevez was gone similar timing. And who have we really brought to improve things in that time.

RVP was one year of arguably more exciting football, but the supporting cast were at the end of the road in many cases or just not good enough.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

I think the negativity has built up from the end of the Fergie era. We have gone from the fiasco of Moyes, the boredom of VG and now the defense first play of Mourinho. We have come this season within touching distance of the top, but fell away alarmingly. We need to win the league next season in my opinion. If we dont then being champions will become more a distant memory and obviously the negativity will get worse. If someone had have said to me in summer 1990 Liverpool wouldnt win the league again for 28 (and counting) years, you would have laughed yourself silly and thought they had gone mad. Im not saying we will go that long, but the longer it goes on the harder it becomes. Foreign players look to the other clubs if we aint at the top. We then have to pay more extortionate wages to attract them. Every year the other top clubs will spend more and more on players etc etc

There is always a chance City can't sustain it or get found out tactically, but if City maintain their form then we have to accept 2nd as a good result. Sometimes a team just works and you can't expect to suddenly interrupt that. City also have the benefit of gradual replacement of aging stars with world class top of the game talent.

It's hard to predict, because Chelsea have had seasons of looking unbeatable and then fallen to shit and even for the dominance of United winning consecutive leagues wasn't always a given.

A slight change in energy or motivation can derail momentum.

 

[Antisocial]

There’s no way we’d third choice in a players mind behind Liverpool and City.

We are the most famous club in England and in the world.

If you want instant success perhaps you’d pick City and the Guardiola affect. But we are still Manchester United and still relevant with winning things playing in front of 76,000. You’ve reached the pinnacle playing for a club of our stature. So I’d say it’d be close between us.

Liverpool has the history but not much else to offer so I really can’t see where a player would choose them over us, I just can’t see it.

I agree we’re a bigger club than both (obviously) but if we’re talking about positivity, then there’s a lot more around the two of them than around us; certainly the Guardiola and Klopp effect have their roles to play, but also just the general love those clubs get all the damn time compared to us, or Arsenal, or even Chelsea, who are also bigger clubs.

The best thing we have going for us (other than wages and related commercial opportunities) is that we have still managed to win trophies the last couple of years whilst Liverpool have won one trophy (a league cup) in like 12 years and most players weren’t born when they last won the league, but big trophies remain out of our reach for now, so I’m not sure where we would sit in the preferences of a top player with the option of the three clubs. Down to individuals of course though.

 

[breakout67]

Players don't give a donkeys about 'positivity'. £££ is most important, followed by silverware.

United, City and Chelsea are the prime targets in this league for this reason. They spend the money and win trophies.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Players don't give a donkeys about 'positivity'. £££ is most important, followed by silverware.

United, City and Chelsea are the prime targets in this league for this reason. They spend the money and win trophies.

I think obviously money is an important factor but winning trophies and the feeling you’ve reached the pinnacle in your profession must rank high too.

When you look back as a player would you be more proud and excited to say you played for Manchester United and were a part of our long and illustrious history or would you feel like you’ve reached the top winning trophies playing for a team playing really well but with a winning history only in last few years after an insane cash injection from an oppressive state?

Around the world Manchester still just means Manchester United and always will do. I would think a player would rather become and add to our history.

 

[Siorac]

So we're back to this myth that it's either entertainment or results.

Yeah, you get the feeling that there isn't a single manager in the world who is capable of finishing higher than 8th or something with Manchester United. That if someone tries to play positive, entertaining football with the world's richest club, we will get stuffed every week.

 

[Siorac]

Sometimes in football you don’t get the amount of goals your play deserved to make a scoreline look comfortable. That doesn’t mean the match isn’t comfortably in your control.
Or you can win 3-0 with 2 late goals when the match was far from comfortable.

But the Liverpool game was neither of these. It was a nervy backs-to-the-wall effort after a good first half. Certainly wasn't comfortable.

 

[King Kana]

In the last three years he has won two minor trophies, finished sixth and took Chesea to near the relegation zone.

How certain are you that he is the second best manager in the world?

As Conte is currently doing now then? He must be shite too.

 

[breakout67]

I think obviously money is an important factor but winning trophies and the feeling you’ve reached the pinnacle in your profession must rank high too.

When you look back as a player would you be more proud and excited to say you played for Manchester United and were a part of our long and illustrious history or would you feel like you’ve reached the top winning trophies playing for a team playing really well but with a winning history only in last few years after an insane cash injection from an oppressive state?

Around the world Manchester still just means Manchester United and always will do. I would think a player would rather become and add to our history.

Yes you are right; playing and/or managing for Manchester United is on most people's bucket lists. If they feel that they are at the right level for the club they will want to go.

For example, Mkhitaryan said in one of his interviews for Arsenal that one of his highlights of his career was playing for us and winning the Europa League.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

The Old Trafford crowd are always positive at the beginning of the season. That is what matters. Opinions on forums and media is irrelevant to the team performance.

Thank goodness.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

This is what I’m talking about. Against a big team it was very comfortable and we never looked liked not winning either.
Some of our fan base just ooze negativity. Nothing is ever enough

Totally agree. They just want to moan. Why even bother.

 

[wolvored]

Sometimes in football you don’t get the amount of goals your play deserved to make a scoreline look comfortable. That doesn’t mean the match isn’t comfortably in your control.
Or you can win 3-0 with 2 late goals when the match was far from comfortable.

With only a goal different the opposition only needs one good chance and the wins gone, so to me the team can never be comfortable until the final whistle. As I said a comfortable win to me is where you are at least 3 goals up and are dominant.

 

[wolvored]

There is always a chance City can't sustain it or get found out tactically, but if City maintain their form then we have to accept 2nd as a good result. Sometimes a team just works and you can't expect to suddenly interrupt that. City also have the benefit of gradual replacement of aging stars with world class top of the game talent.

It's hard to predict, because Chelsea have had seasons of looking unbeatable and then fallen to shit and even for the dominance of United winning consecutive leagues wasn't always a given.

A slight change in energy or motivation can derail momentum.

I agree with you, but I think we need to win it next season. The 'we are a team in transition' some folks on here say, cant keep going on and on. If he cant build a team after 3 seasons then hes not the manager we need.

 

[Offside]

To me it just doesn’t matter who we sign anymore as they will just underperform. We need Jose to get rid of a few and get people in their right positions with a settled XI then we can be more positive.

 

[wolvored]

I think obviously money is an important factor but winning trophies and the feeling you’ve reached the pinnacle in your profession must rank high too.

When you look back as a player would you be more proud and excited to say you played for Manchester United and were a part of our long and illustrious history or would you feel like you’ve reached the top winning trophies playing for a team playing really well but with a winning history only in last few years after an insane cash injection from an oppressive state?

Around the world Manchester still just means Manchester United and always will do. I would think a player would rather become and add to our history.

No. Players home and abroad would take the trophies and the money over playing for an historic club. When you look back on your career would you tell your kids I won Ch League and the Premiership with (enter team), or I played a couple of seasons for Manchester, but won nothing. That jesus kid at City is a prime example. Utd and City were both after him. He went to City and said the chance of playing for Pep and winning trophies under him was the draw. Utds history was never mentioned. As for Manchester just meaning Utd, I dont think that happens now. Everyone has heard of City.

 

[MUFC OK]

Negativity is good as we show our displeasure. Next season we will start fresh. We have been negative all seasons since SAF but whenever we started with wins we have been positive.

And as soon as there is a sign of things going wrong or a bad patch of form the negativity will return 10-fold - 'No more excuses', 'he's in his 3rd season', 'money spent' etc. Basically people won't be satisfied unless we do what City have done this year in the league which is not going to happen.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

No. Players home and abroad would take the trophies and the money over playing for an historic club. When you look back on your career would you tell your kids I won Ch League and the Premiership with (enter team), or I played a couple of seasons for Manchester, but won nothing. That jesus kid at City is a prime example. Utd and City were both after him. He went to City and said the chance of playing for Pep and winning trophies under him was the draw. Utds history was never mentioned. As for Manchester just meaning Utd, I dont think that happens now. Everyone has heard of City.

With respect you can’t say I’m wrong. You don’t know, and in all fairness it depends what kind of player/person you are I guess. For me it wouldn’t mean much winning the lot with City as much as winning it with Manchester United would be. And that’s not down to purely being a United fan, it’s for the prestige which money can’t buy.

And I lived in Mexico for a while a couple years ago and nobody even knew what a Manchester City was. Weren’t even aware they existed. You mention a Manchester team that plays football 99/100 they say United.

 

[shamans]

And as soon as there is a sign of things going wrong or a bad patch of form the negativity will return 10-fold - 'No more excuses', 'he's in his 3rd season', 'money spent' etc. Basically people won't be satisfied unless we do what City have done this year in the league which is not going to happen.

That's not true. We just want to see good football with a decent title race. Our current results would not be that bad if we played good attacking football at least.

 

[wolvored]

With respect you can’t say I’m wrong. You don’t know, and in all fairness it depends what kind of player/person you are I guess. For me it wouldn’t mean much winning the lot with City as much as winning it with Manchester United would be. And that’s not down to purely being a United fan, it’s for the prestige which money can’t buy.

And I lived in Mexico for a while a couple years ago and nobody even knew what a Manchester City was. Weren’t even aware they existed. You mention a Manchester team that plays football 99/100 they say United.

I agree with you to a point. Up until Pep joined I would say Manchester was only known in some places as Utd. This has now changed.
You are looking at it as a Utd fan though compared to a foreign player as regards coming here for the history against going to play for lets say City who look the business, have a pro-attack world famous manager and look the most likely at the moment to challenge for the league and Champions League. As mentioned with Gabriel Jesus.

 

[MUFC OK]

That's not true. We just want to see good football with a decent title race. Our current results would not be that bad if we played good attacking football at least.

It's a debate for another thread as to what constitutes good football, we know Liverpool are playing good football, we all think Fergie played good football, but in reality we were pretty damn uninspiring to watch after Ronaldo left, barring the odd counter attacking masterclass against the tactically inept Wenger and Arsenal.

I agree we certainly should be closer to City in terms of points, and being in a title race next season is a must, but its easy to forget just how poor we were before Jose arrived. he has signed mostly great players, with a couple that haven't worked out, and is gradually improving the quality of our starting XI and squad. we have only finished in the top 4 once since SAF left, and that was in a season with no European football, we are much improved no doubt, with patience and continuity I think we will continue on our upward trajectory, there is a lot to be positive about.

 

[shamans]

It's a debate for another thread as to what constitutes good football, we know Liverpool are playing good football, we all think Fergie played good football, but in reality we were pretty damn uninspiring to watch after Ronaldo left, barring the odd counter attacking masterclass against the tactically inept Wenger and Arsenal.

I agree we certainly should be closer to City in terms of points, and being in a title race next season is a must, but its easy to forget just how poor we were before Jose arrived. he has signed mostly great players, with a couple that haven't worked out, and is gradually improving the quality of our starting XI and squad. we have only finished in the top 4 once since SAF left, and that was in a season with no European football, we are much improved no doubt, with patience and continuity I think we will continue on our upward trajectory, there is a lot to be positive about.

Thats not true. We were nowhere as bad with some of our football as we are now. My biggest issue is how we play against the top teams and even with Fergie in his late years we went for it

 

[Bobski]

And as soon as there is a sign of things going wrong or a bad patch of form the negativity will return 10-fold - 'No more excuses', 'he's in his 3rd season', 'money spent' etc. Basically people won't be satisfied unless we do what City have done this year in the league which is not going to happen.

This is what happens at one of the worlds elite clubs. It comes with the territory, and frankly as long as it does not carry over to the stands during game time it is inconsequential.

If Mourinho is allowed to spend a lot of money again, puts a squad in place that he is happy with then surely at that point you have to accept the expectation?

 

[charlenefan]

Well that ought to do it till the Semi Final at least

 

[charlenefan]

So here we are days from the start of the new season and the negativity is worse than it was when I started this thread

1- Jose unhappy
2- No new LB
3- No new RB either (unless Delot surprises)
4- Fellaini still here
5- No commanding CB
6- Shit pre-season both in terms of performances and results
7- Barca have just bid for Pogba

In my life this is the first time we've gone into a season in such disarray (even the Moyes/LVG years were filled with more optimism)

 

[Turnip]

Since I started following football again this is the least excited for a new season I can remember me being. At the end of last season i was just waiting for it to be over, I'm already thinking I want this season over and it's not even started yet. Might see if I can get some sort of medically induced coma (or just watching one of our matches might do the trick to be fair) to skip it all.

I'm not too fussed about lack or signings, I think Fred will be a positive and an actual right back has got to be a bonus, our squad isn't amazing but I feel Jose should be able to achieve something with it. I'm kinda happy to see no left backs, meaning Shaw is surely going to get a proper shot. But the talk of Pogba and Martial leaving and Jose being in damage control mode before we've even kicked a ball competitively just makes me concerned we're about to take a massive leap backwards and I'm not sure I can be bothered to pay attention to more "rebuilding phase" seasons.