Television The 'Cuties' Netflix Controversy

hobbers

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Director is obviously a roaring hebephile.
 

Acrobat7

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Seen couple of videos. It’s distasteful at best. What cnut thought it would be a good idea to film 11 year olds dancing in a provocative way. Weird.
The problem is not making a movie out of it. The problem is, that this shit is happening „in real life“. Therefore it is good that the movie addresses this and gets a conversation starting to hopefully end having kids do this.
 

MaxiPaxi

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The problem is not making a movie out of it. The problem is, that this shit is happening „in real life“. Therefore it is good that the movie addresses this and gets a conversation starting to hopefully end having kids do this.
Why not make a documentary then? Do we need a movie to start this conversation?
 

Acrobat7

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Why not make a documentary then? Do we need a movie to start this conversation?
I am sure there are documentaries around on the topic. I remember seeing something on 8 year olds dressed up at pageants and I wanted to throw up. Could have also been something like elementary school dance teams or some shit like that.
But this movie started a discussion that is both uncomfortable and needed.
 

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It's a weird one because my understanding is that the movie is about the wrong sides of society for young teenagers and how far they can wrongly go in order to be accepted in real life and online. The american poster is about when the main character realizes that the path she chose was wrong and left the dance contest.

The perplexing part is that the point is that instead of questioning what these teenagers actually live, people are uncomfortable with the fact that they seemingly sexualized these kids while watching the movie or clips.
Good post.
 

stepic

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Why not make a documentary then? Do we need a movie to start this conversation?
why would a documentary be ok and a movie not be? Isn’t the whole point of (proper) film to challenge us in some way about the realities of the world?
 

MaxiPaxi

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why would a documentary be ok and a movie not be? Isn’t the whole point of (proper) film to challenge us in some way about the realities of the world?
We don’t have to show young girls twerking maybe? Why do we need the re-enactments to challenge ourselves. I don’t need to watch Child porn to know it’s horrific.
 

AkaAkuma

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im ignorant towards this, are 11year olds now living in a sexualised world? 14 I can imagine and be concerned and depressed at the thought of childhood ending so early, but 11, really?
 

afrocentricity

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I have no interest in watching this movie but the sexualising of kids is a big fecking problem and has been for a long fecking time....
 

MaxiPaxi

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I’m not sure if the guy is actually a paedo or his one of them stubborn people who will defend his point no matter what. What a hill to die on.
 

TwoSheds

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im ignorant towards this, are 11year olds now living in a sexualised world? 14 I can imagine and be concerned and depressed at the thought of childhood ending so early, but 11, really?
I think you may just be exactly who the film is aimed at.
 

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It's a disturbing and uncomfortable watch, but I think it did a good job of conveying just how fecked up things are becoming. I've seen my 12 year old niece and her friends dance around and film each other, I've seen the kind of clothes they want to wear, and it's a lot like what you see in the film. I've got cousins who've danced and done gymnastics, and I've always wondered why their costumes are skimpy two-pieces and deep V-necks. The film is extremely true to life, and what you see the main characters doing are the same kind of things you'll find any 11-12 year old girl doing. It does a really good job of showing just how the hypersexualisation of society has affected kids

I think the reactions people are having are the reactions the director wanted to provoke, it's just that they're being directed at the film itself, while the problem it's trying to highlight gets completely ignored and overlooked.

It's fair to question whether it had to be as provocative as it is, and truth be told, I don't know. I guess the fact that people are focusing on the "wrong" thing suggests that it might have gone overboard, but who knows how much of that reaction was fueled by Netflix' completely fecking up their promotion of it and the subsequent outrage.
 

DOTA

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It's really quite funny that you all just suddenly realised French cinema exists.
 

Champ

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im ignorant towards this, are 11year olds now living in a sexualised world? 14 I can imagine and be concerned and depressed at the thought of childhood ending so early, but 11, really?
Having this discussion with my work colleague today who has four daughters aged between 10 and 16,
The answer from him is yes kids this young are living in a sexualised world, just watch any music video or watch any fashion blogger on YouTube.
 

MaxiPaxi

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It's a disturbing and uncomfortable watch, but I think it did a good job of conveying just how fecked up things are becoming. I've seen my 12 year old niece and her friends dance around and film each other, I've seen the kind of clothes they want to wear, and it's a lot like what you see in the film. I've got cousins who've danced and done gymnastics, and I've always wondered why their costumes are skimpy two-pieces and deep V-necks. The film is extremely true to life, and what you see the main characters doing are the same kind of things you'll find any 11-12 year old girl doing. It does a really good job of showing just how the hypersexualisation of society has affected kids

I think the reactions people are having are the reactions the director wanted to provoke, it's just that they're being directed at the film itself, while the problem it's trying to highlight gets completely ignored and overlooked.

It's fair to question whether it had to be as provocative as it is, and truth be told, I don't know. I guess the fact that people are focusing on the "wrong" thing suggests that it might have gone overboard, but who knows how much of that reaction was fueled by Netflix' completely fecking up their promotion of it and the subsequent outrage.
Do we really need 11 year old girls to be exploited on screen to tell us that this toxic culture exists? Do we need some really disturbing scenes in the movie to realise that prepubescent teens go through these experiences? Do we need to feel uncomfortable for an hour and a half to get to the end of the movie for the main protagonist to realise that maybe she’s on the wrong path or at least that she’s too young to be walking along that path? It makes no sense for this movie to exist. It does far more harm than good.
 

DOTA

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Just popped on this Swedish film by some bloke called Bergman. A bit depressing. One star.
 

dumbo

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I love that this seems to have settled on a debate between people who haven't seen the film but want to condemn it for all its corruption and the guy who has seen it and is endorsing it on the grounds that he found it titillating.

I love that we decided to condemn this as obviously paedophilia, after looking up only the most paedophilic scenes from the paedophilia film, that have been carefully extracted and posted online to show us all the paedophilic material. Because we shouldn't watch this scandalous paedophile film with all the story and character stuff but let's just check all the paedophilic bits out just to make sure.

We truly are Donald Trump's cultural offspring.
 

Rooney in Paris

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It's really quite funny that you all just suddenly realised French cinema exists.
?
Do we really need 11 year old girls to be exploited on screen to tell us that this toxic culture exists? Do we need some really disturbing scenes in the movie to realise that prepubescent teens go through these experiences? Do we need to feel uncomfortable for an hour and a half to get to the end of the movie for the main protagonist to realise that maybe she’s on the wrong path or at least that she’s too young to be walking along that path? It makes no sense for this movie to exist. It does far more harm than good.
Given the conversation that this film has sparked, the answer would probably be yes.

Also, how does it do far more harm than good? Have you seen it?
 

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I love that this seems to have settled on a debate between people who haven't seen the film but want to condemn it for all its corruption and the guy who has seen it and is endorsing it on the grounds that he found it titillating.

I love that we decided to condemn this as obviously paedophilia, after looking up only the most paedophilic scenes from the paedophilia film, that have been carefully extracted and posted online to show us all the paedophilic material. Because we shouldn't watch this scandalous paedophile film with all the story and character stuff but let's just check all the paedophilic bits out just to make sure.

We truly are Donald Trump's cultural offspring.
There are a few sensible posts along those lines in this thread though.
 

dumbo

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There are a few sensible posts along those lines in this thread though.
Of course, it was a slight flight of hyperbolic fancy. And as always the evidence for some sort of mass movement against the film doesn't seem to be there. It seems to be the usual fringe loud mouths.

Still, watching videos of the supposedly offensive - and technically criminal, let it be said - bits that have been edited out and smashed together for ease of perusing, all the while condemning the film for said bits, is utter madness.
 

MaxiPaxi

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?

Given the conversation that this film has sparked, the answer would probably be yes.

Also, how does it do far more harm than good? Have you seen it?
The conversation has been started because there a prepubescent teens who are clearly being sexualised and exploited on film. It’s not thought provoking — it’s fecking disgusting. No I’ve not seen the movie and I don’t ever plan to.
 

dumbo

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Yet you watched one video of the offensive material. And then you watched another.

(unless you broadcast them simultaneously).
 

MaxiPaxi

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Yet you watched one video of the offensive material. And then you watched another.

(unless you broadcast them simultaneously).
Aye and that was enough for me. I don’t need an hour and a half to watch this to know this is disgusting garbage.
 

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Given the conversation that this film has sparked, the answer would probably be yes.
So are we saying that filmmakers should now be allowed to cast children of all ages and go ahead and film them for a movie depicting child pornography, where they are filmed performing entire sexual acts with adult actors, to start a discussion on the horrors of child pornography? As per the people defending this movie, the only way spread awareness about a topic seems to be actually having people, in this case young children, re-create the very acts that are horrific and disgusting.
 

MaxiPaxi

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So are we saying that filmmakers should now be allowed to cast children of all ages and go ahead and film them for a movie depicting child pornography, where they are filmed performing entire sexual acts with adult actors, to start a discussion on the horrors of child pornography? As per the people defending this movie, the only way spread awareness about a topic seems to be actually having people, in this case young children, re-create the very acts that are horrific and disgusting.
The discussion that was meant to be invoked has been largely lost as well. We’re now arguing about the direction the movie took and whether it’s right or wrong and not about the message the movie was trying to convey. It’s a total failure in my eyes.
 

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I love that this seems to have settled on a debate between people who haven't seen the film but want to condemn it for all its corruption and the guy who has seen it and is endorsing it on the grounds that he found it titillating.

I love that we decided to condemn this as obviously paedophilia, after looking up only the most paedophilic scenes from the paedophilia film, that have been carefully extracted and posted online to show us all the paedophilic material. Because we shouldn't watch this scandalous paedophile film with all the story and character stuff but let's just check all the paedophilic bits out just to make sure.

We truly are Donald Trump's cultural offspring.
Well, when's the last time a public debate (on any topic really; let alone something controversial) went well, with nuanced opinions, understanding for each other's standpoints, etc.? I don't really see the Trump link; public debate is a polarized cesspool of reactionary narrow-mindedness. Nothing Trump had to do for that - but of course it fits him like a glove.
Aye and that was enough for me. I don’t need an hour and a half to watch this to know this is disgusting garbage.
And that's the problem. I have not seen the film either, but reviews indicate that the controversial bits make up only a fairly small portion of the film. (Dumbo could comment further, as he's now actually seen it.) So your statement right here does not actually make sense.

What the review in my newspaper commented: yes, it's uncomfortable viewing, but that's the point, as the director (who is reflecting on her own youth, btw) is trying to raise the issue of sexualization of young women, etc. So their question was: how else can you raise this issue in a film, if you can't show it for what it is? And I would add: how is this worse than psychological or physical horror, or the typical kind of action film in which dozens of people are graphically killed on screen? (With neither genre generally trying to make any kind of moral or ethical point.)
 

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So are we saying that filmmakers should now be allowed to cast children of all ages and go ahead and film them for a movie depicting child pornography, where they are filmed performing entire sexual acts with adult actors, to start a discussion on the horrors of child pornography? As per the people defending this movie, the only way spread awareness about a topic seems to be actually having people, in this case young children, re-create the very acts that are horrific and disgusting.
Most sane people have an intuitive understanding of right and wrong. Healthy people do not need to watch something like cuties, to figure out that pedophillia is wrong, they already understood it. Just by making that show cuties, the girls had to be exploited, just in how they were dressed. I would not be surprised if in 10 years from now one of the girls that was on this show comes out and talks about how she was pressured or gas lit to doing this terrible show.
 
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Spoony

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The issue is that children had to be exploited in the name of art. I love art but I'm sure there's better ways to make your point. But yeah French films and all that. And black and white Bergmann ones. What an uncultured lot.
 

evil_geko

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It is indeed (intentionally) uncomfortable and distasteful etc. But people triggering and calling it "softcore porn" is the biggest overreaction I have seen about a film in a while.

But I am not surprised as today's society is really thin-skinned in general. This is nothing that far out and new for French/European cinema.
 

MaxiPaxi

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Well, when's the last time a public debate (on any topic really; let alone something controversial) went well, with nuanced opinions, understanding for each other's standpoints, etc.? I don't really see the Trump link; public debate is a polarized cesspool of reactionary narrow-mindedness. Nothing Trump had to do for that - but of course it fits him like a glove.

And that's the problem. I have not seen the film either, but reviews indicate that the controversial bits make up only a fairly small portion of the film. (Dumbo could comment further, as he's now actually seen it.) So your statement right here does not actually make sense.

What the review in my newspaper commented: yes, it's uncomfortable viewing, but that's the point, as the director (who is reflecting on her own youth, btw) is trying to raise the issue of sexualization of young women, etc. So their question was: how else can you raise this issue in a film, if you can't show it for what it is? And I would add: how is this worse than psychological or physical horror, or the typical kind of action film in which dozens of people are graphically killed on screen? (With neither genre generally trying to make any kind of moral or ethical point.)
I don’t need to watch it to understand the sexualisation of young girls in today’s world. With toxic social media etc. From what I know of the premise of the film, an french African girl is having cultural issues between her home life and the country she lives in. I get that, that I can be difficult and there is a story to be told there definitely. But I do not need twerking in my face and crotch shots of her to bring the point home. It’s absurd that anyone needs to see that to drive the point movie tries to make.
 

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Aye and that was enough for me. I don’t need an hour and a half to watch this to know this is disgusting garbage.
So you do not, in fact, know what you are talking about.
So are we saying that filmmakers should now be allowed to cast children of all ages and go ahead and film them for a movie depicting child pornography, where they are filmed performing entire sexual acts with adult actors, to start a discussion on the horrors of child pornography?
No because, simply put, that would be illegal.
 

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The discussion that was meant to be invoked has been largely lost as well. We’re now arguing about the direction the movie took and whether it’s right or wrong and not about the message the movie was trying to convey. It’s a total failure in my eyes.
Could that be in part due to the amount of people who haven’t watched the movie but want to center themselves as part of the discourse surrounding the film?

It reminds me of the furore surrounding certain video games in the 90’s and 00’s where people would lambast violent scenes or narratives, without having actually engaged with the medium itself.

Most sane people have an intuitive understanding of right and wrong. Healthy people do not need to watch something like cuties, to figure out that pedophillia is wrong, they already understood it. Plus, just by making that show cuties, the girls had to be exploited, just in how they were dressed. I would not be surprised if in 10 years from now, one of the girls that was on this show, comes out and talks about how she was pressured or gas lit to doing this terrible show.
That’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what this film is, and what it’s trying to convey. The message isn’t ‘pedos are bad’ ‘children shouldn’t be sexualised‘ It’s that these things are happening all around us. Look at this thread and see how many people question the idea that preteens are already exposed to a sexualised culture. That it’s a common part of many youths of that age. I don’t fault anyone for not wanting to watch the film because of uncomfortable scenes, but if they think that scenes depicted aren’t a part of everyday life for a lot of children they’re walking around with blinders on
 

MaxiPaxi

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Most sane people have an intuitive understanding of right and wrong. Healthy people do not need to watch something like cuties, to figure out that pedophillia is wrong, they already understood it. Just by making that show cuties, the girls had to be exploited, just in how they were dressed. I would not be surprised if in 10 years from now one of the girls that was on this show comes out and talks about how she was pressured or gas lit to doing this terrible show.
Exactly. I don’t see why the movie was needed to be filmed the way it was. It just made me feel very uncomfortable that these young girls were being made to dance that way. Any normal person would recoil at that.