The Daredevil Draft R1 | Skizzo vs Himannv

[GodShaveTheQueen]

-------------------------------------- SKIZZO ------------------------------------------------------------------------- HIMANNV-----------------------------------

Skizzo's write up:

Tactic:
Built around trying to get the best out of Lothar Matthaus.

Low on time so apologies for the quick run through. Basically a solid back line with Picchi reprising a role he’s familiar with and excelled in. Outstanding protection with the French trio. An industrious and technical midfielder alongside Lothar. Conti out wide and Keegan linking the midfield and attack.

All the players (bar Ruud, but he still puts in a shift) would be hounding and harrying the opposition, getting stuck in and out working until winning the ball back.

Himannv's write up:

Tactics: Combination of Carre Magique, Juventus, and my own spin

Attack

• The team is set up to provide an optimal platform for Le Roi to star in.
• Boniek reprises his role for Juve in front of Platini.
• Law is a natural finisher who can make the most of Platini's passes, while also drawing defenders to him to create spaces for Platini to run in and score himself.

Midfield

• Platini is supported by his usual sidekick - Alain Giresse
• Bonhof adds the workrate in midfield
• Fernandez was not just a DM but also someone who can create and Stieleke can play this role perfectly

Defence

• Bossis, of course, has played this role before and fits like a glove.
• Zanetti is an upgrade on Amoros.
• The CBs are great defenders first and McGrath is a Tresor upgrade.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Tell you what, those are two brilliant teams. Pretty sure this will be super close.

Good luck @Skizzo @Himannv

 

[Skizzo]

When I arrived at Bayern, we won the league during my first year. Now I’m at Inter and the same thing will happen again.” Presenting himself with confidence, Lothar Matthaus, was well aware that he would need to back this claim up with facts. At the start of what was the German’s first season as an interista, the team’s domestic competition was remarkably tough. Rivals included a Dutch-inspired Milan side, who were the reigning champions, Maradona’s Napoli, Baggio’s Fiorentina, Laudrup’s Juventus and also a Sampdoria side led by Vialli and Mancini. However, Inter ultimately triumphed thanks to a perfectly constructed team, which notably had the 27-year-old No.10 at its core.
In Germany, he had been mostly used as a No.6 or No.8, however, these positions were both occupied by Mandorlini and Matteoli. Therefore, in selfless fashion, Lothar switched to No.10. During that first season he made 32 league appearances and scored nine crucial goals.

All of his teammates had similar opinions when describing Lothar Matthaus: “From that moment when he decided to win a match, he would win it.” He was the ultimate game-changer, providing both technical and moral leadership for the squad and providing a sense of positivity for his teammates. Upon his arrival in Italy, he heard that it was good enough for the team to draw on their travels and then win at home. However, prior to a game away in Emilia, he said to his teammates: “Draw? Today we’ll win 4-0.” He would ultimately be mistaken, with the scoreboard at the Dall’Ara showing Bologna 0 Inter 6 at the end of the day.

The San Siro loved him, so much so that they even supported him through the 1990 World Cup, where Germany played five matches at the refurbished Meazza. Often the Curva Nord would be full of interisti, who’d simply be there to support Matthaus and help his Germany side win their third World Cup.

In exchange, Lothar would lift the Ballon d’Or at San Siro that same year. A deserved award for a player who had the rare skill of combining ability with charisma. He was decisive in decisive moments. Examples of this include his fierce free-kick to defeat Maradona’s Napoli in 1989, securing the Scudetto as a result, and also a penalty struck just under the crossbar to gift Inter the 1991 UEFA Cup.

He enjoyed four fantastic years with the Nerazzurri - the most important of his 20-year career. During this he played in five World Cups, which is a record for any player and has yet to be broken. Despite success elsewhere, Inter was a special club for him and always will be; as was he a special player for all interisti. When out in the playground, kids didn’t want to be Platini, Maradona, Van Basten, Baggio or Mancini. They wanted to Lothar Matthaus, the winner.

 

[Synco]

Will take a lot to convince me this isn't a draw. Maybe it's Skizzo's defense, but it'd hurt to vote against Himann's team.

 

[P-Nut]

Will wait a good while to vote on this one, Matthaus immediately draws the eye with how effective he could be in this set up, but Himaanvs front 3 look deadly as well.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Your first instinct w.r.t proven partnerships here is Platini-Boniek and Platini-Giresse.

One really successful one that might go under the radar is the 70's Gladbach partnership of Stielike and Bonhof

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Also due credits to @Jim Beam for giving everyone the default Carre Magique graphic

 

[Himannv]

Good luck @Skizzo

TBH, with this kind of pool I don't expect too many weaknesses and glaring mistakes, and Skizzo is a fantastic drafter and manager. I think this, and many other games, will come down to preference and how much you like a certain team. Will talk about some of my players in the next few posts.

 

[Skizzo]

Good luck @Skizzo

TBH, with this kind of pool I don't expect too many weaknesses and glaring mistakes, and Skizzo is a fantastic drafter and manager. I think this, and many other games, will come down to preference and how much you like a certain team. Will talk about some of my players in the next few posts.

you too mate! Agree with all you said too. Can’t find much fault with your team in terms of set up, and I’m sure we both see areas we think we can push as an advantage, but in terms of balance and setup, I think you have it pretty much bang on.

I’ll be in and out throughout the day!

 

[Enigma_87]

• The CBs are great defenders first and McGrath is a Tresor upgrade.

Hugely debatable and for me is the other way around.

 

[Himannv]

I thought I'll just go through the Euro 1984 tournament to introduce Le Roi, not that he needs introducing on this forum.

The overall game of Michel Platini is slightly underrated sometimes. People often just look at the sublime passes or the beautiful and important goals he scored, while forgetting the kind of overall impact he had on the game. He wasn't shy of tracking back, tackling, and pressing opponents, while also throwing in exceptional vision and an uncanny ability to beat the press.

The following video is a good illustration of the kind of overall impact he can have on games:


For France in 1984, it was all about Platini from the moment the tournament. Right in his peak, he scored the only goal of the game on the opening night of Euro 84 against Denmark. In a match in which he mixed silky touches with a willingness to get stuck into tackles.

In the very next game, he score a hattrick against Belgium, which also showcased his versatility as a goal scorer. He scored with his left foot, right foot, and also a header.


This game featured Platini finding pockets of space to apply his X-Ray vision and playmaking ability, and also interestingly featured Giresse running the channels and creating space for Le Roi. Platini scored a hattrick in the game that followed as well (vs Yugoslavia).

The game against Portugal was one of the hardest that the French team faced. Platini played some lovely passes and showcased his vision, but it was his goal in the last minute of extra time prove how clutch he was in the biggest games with everything on the line.


In the finals against Spain, once again Platini proved decisive with his goal off a free kick. Certainly not the best freekick he's ever taken, but a key goal in the finals of a major tournament. Platini lifted the cup as captain and deserving champion.


To add just a little more, here's a great video compilation of his goals and skills.

 

[Himannv]

Hugely debatable and for me is the other way around.

Tresor > McGrath? Not for me personally, but ok.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

i do wonder how are McGrath and Robbo rated outside the United circle....

 

[Skizzo]

Will wait a good while to vote on this one, Matthaus immediately draws the eye with how effective he could be in this set up, but Himaanvs front 3 look deadly as well.

They definitely have goals in them, and have appreciated them all myself in different draft teams. In terms of defensively though, Desailly and Thuram can tuck in or go wide, and with Picchi still back there in a role he’s familiar (and been successful) with, we should be well versed to nullify some of that threat coming through. Makelele-Desailly-Thuram won’t lack for athleticism or defensive nous and I’m sure would relish the chance to match up physically there.

 

[Skizzo]

The fact we have a team who will press hard from the front and win balls back in possession (Keegan, Conti, Matthaus all harassing the back line) it’s worth noting who will be sniffing around the loose balls and quick transition to attack, who could be ready at the drop of a hat to stick the ball in the back of the net.

 

[harms]

i do wonder how are McGrath and Robbo rated outside the United circle....

If you exclude Irish, English & Villa fans, then, certainly, not high enough. I've seen a lot of claims that have McGrath as the best Irish international of all-time, (to be fair, he got a bit lucky with his peak overlapping with their greatest ever performances; Keane's absolute peak came a little after that and Brady was a tad too old), for example. And Robson's performances for England were just as impressive as those for United. In the eyes of unaffiliated fans though, their lack of achievements certainly works against them

Comparing Trésor to McGrath is an interesting one. The former certainly has a better reputation in historical context, but I would certainly pick McGrath over him on the basis of what I've seen of both of them. Being the reference center back of one of the leading footballing nations (before the emergence of Blanc/Desailly generation) had certainly boosted Trésor's reputation a bit. On the other hand, McGrath got a lot of hype because of his dad in the 90's.

 

[Physiocrat]

Again really close. Skizzo's defence is insane although I think Himmanv's superior creativity will win out here.

Also I get how this replicates his role at Inter, but I think it places more creative burden on Matthaus than he would ideally have. I suspect Inter played him there because they had no-one else who could do it as well rather than it being his optimal position per se. You do want him to have full licence to go forward and back but spreading the creative burden a little more would enhance the team overall. The more I think about Matthaus I reckon he would be great in a 433 with a selfless DLP like Carrick at the base and a selfless creative 8 like Nedved ahead of Matthaus. Matthaus is the ultimate boss but is supplemented by creative play ahead and behind him. Then of course there would be the front 3.

 

[Skizzo]

Again really close. Skizzo's defence is insane although I think Himmanv's superior creativity will win out here.

Also I get how this replicates his role at Inter, but I think it places more creative burden on Matthaus than he would ideally have. I suspect Inter played him there because they had no-one else who could do it as well rather than it being his optimal position per se. You do want him to have full licence to go forward and back but spreading the creative burden a little more would enhance the team overall. The more I think about Matthaus I reckon he would be great in a 433 with a selfless DLP like Carrick at the base and a selfless creative 8 like Nedved ahead of Matthaus. Matthaus is the ultimate boss but is supplemented by creative play ahead and behind him. Then of course there would be the front 3.

Matthaus thrived at inter with only three players ahead of him. The focal point is obviously going through him, but I think you’re overlooking the other players here as well. Conti out wide is great with the ball at his feet and also putting crosses in where Keegan and Ruud can get on the end, and with Matthaus being a threat with his late arrival.


And Keegan is a great foil to play one of the three ahead of Matthaus due to just how industrious he was on top of being a threat going forward. Great in the air, always moving around, he’d look to fall in pockets of space and drag people around which would be a great asset alongside someone bursting forward like Lothar.


I don’t think Matthaus would want someone from midfield ahead of him here, but Netto in this role is a perfect foil. Energetic and robust and right at home in that LCM area, he’s great at carrying the ball forward when needed, but also technical enough to find the passes forward to spring quickly.

 

[P-Nut]

The fact we have a team who will press hard from the front and win balls back in possession (Keegan, Conti, Matthaus all harassing the back line) it’s worth noting who will be sniffing around the loose balls and quick transition to attack, who could be ready at the drop of a hat to stick the ball in the back of the net.

I actually love the fact he's being used in an all time draft, one of the greatest fox in the box strikers there has been.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I have decided to call this a draw. Its really sad that one of these two won't be progressing.

Will admit I was closer to voting for Himannv as he sports a lot of my favorites, but Skizzo's team is unquestionably brilliant and more importantly, unique.

Most people don't use Matthaus this well. In fact, I remember putting it in one of my games' OP and boy, does the setup in this game deliver big time.

Managers that pick Matthaus as the first pick don't often win the draft and there is a very good reason for that. They don't try to get the best out of their marquee player. The best way to build a draft team in our opinion is to build it around the best player in your team and maximize his influence on the setup. Sounds obvious and easy to do with the likes of Maradona or Di Stefano or Baresi or Beckenbauer. Not so much with the likes of Matthaus and Rijkaard. The most usual misuse of course is to shoehorn Lothar into a double pivot and place a pure No.10 ahead of him with of course the eventual hope of replacing him with a GOAT No.10 in reinforcements. That more or less converts Matthaus into a minor upgrade over players like Davids/Tigana/Keane etc. Someone who could provide a base for the playmaker ahead of him to shine. But Matthaus of course was so much better than that and offers way more than any of them listed earlier. One simply needs to use him in the right setup around the right set of players who rather than limit his game, make use of his skills both on and off the ball to the maximum.

 

[Skizzo]

@GodShaveTheQueen it was a goal to set things up for Lothar to shine from the start, and I feel it came together quite nicely for a first round team. The open drafting helped, but besides making a few “quality” upgrades, I don’t feel any roles can really be greatly improved upon. Cue someone coming in to tell me why I’m wrong

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@GodShaveTheQueen it was a goal to set things up for Lothar to shine from the start, and I feel it came together quite nicely for a first round team. The open drafting helped, but besides making a few “quality” upgrades, I don’t feel any roles can really be greatly improved upon. Cue someone coming in to tell me why I’m wrong

I can’t comment on upgrades, but I guess you do deserve my vote not just for the unique and different but also for doing it with great quality.

Sorry Himannv, hate voting against you here.

 

[Jim Beam]

Incredibly hard to vote.

Went for Skizzo, not just because of Lothar, but fantastic defence and that attacking trio (RVN, Keegan, Conti) looks like more then a sum of its parts with every player offering something different to deal with. Not the biggest fan of Netto, Makelele base for Lothar though.

 

[Skizzo]

Incredibly hard to vote.

Went for Skizzo, not just because of Lothar, but fantastic defence and that attacking trio (RVN, Keegan, Conti) looks like more then a sum of its parts with every player offering something different to deal with. Not the biggest fan of Netto, Makelele base for Lothar though.

What do you see being a better base there? Or rather, what types of players/style would you prefer seeing there?

 

[Jim Beam]

What do you see being a better base there? Or rather, what types of players/style would you prefer seeing there?

In general, am not the biggest fan of Makelele, but that is not the main issue. Netto is fine in terms of quick passing, getting the ball quickly upfront and holding his own defensively, but would like to add a bit more of a goal threat and playmaking from the secondary midfield. Someone who the other defence will also have to count going forward.

The way the team is shaped I can see Lothar doing most of the attacking from that midfield. Like he did in Inter. The thing is I definitely don't see that Inter as a great team in an all time sense and the team could have been better if it didn't depend so much on Lothar going forward and producing heroic displays one after another. Especially considering the strength of your defence + Makelele you could go for a bit more adventures 2nd midfielder alongside of him. Maybe Bastian, Edwards, Modric, even Davids on first thought...

All that said and since it is a 1st round, it is quite a team around Lothar, mind you.

 

[Isotope]

Skizzo's players are perfect for his theme. Incredible.

 

[Physiocrat]

The way the team is shaped I can see Lothar doing most of the attacking from that midfield. Like he did in Inter. The thing is I definitely don't see that Inter as a great team in an all time sense and the team could have been better if it didn't depend so much on Lothar going forward and producing heroic displays one after another.

This. I would also say you can make that side better without diminishing Matthaus' role.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tresor > McGrath? Not for me personally, but ok.

Aye, at least for me it's Tresor as the better defender, although they are very simular in many ways - being underrated due to playing for teams that didn't achieve much at their peak and having similar physical frame but also being very good on the ball.

In terms of the game - very good crafted sides from both managers and I just couldn't separate them at the end.

 

[Ecstatic]

-------------------------------------- SKIZZO ------------------------------------------------------------------------- HIMANNV-----------------------------------

Skizzo's write up:

Tactic:
Built around trying to get the best out of Lothar Matthaus.

Interesting.

As a sheep, I think I would have had Germany 1990 as a main source of inspiration and would have had something like that:

 

[Ecstatic]

Skizzo was an obvious big favorite for me before the draw but it seens the magic of a square makes difference these days!