He'd failed quite badly at Barca and Bayern before that too. There were a lot of warning signs that he wasn't the coach he used to be. The Netherland's run in the World Cup overshadowed those issues for people, I think.
The David Moyes appreciation thread
- Thread starter Sir Scott McToMinay
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The first season was pretty decent with some positivity that he could have built on, but the idiot decided to destroy everything in the next summer and fecked up the squad and his style became worse and worse.
Well he still won league titles there, something he didn't come close to here!
He deserved more time and one real preseason and transfer window.
The only reason he didn’t get a “real” preseason was because he chose to take his time off and enjoy his holidays, why shouldn’t he, he did have 6 years after all.
He didn’t “deserve” anything, he should’ve been gone in October.
I suck in sarcasm
I'd hardly call his time at Bayern a failure. It didn't end well, but his first season there was very successful.
You’re correct, though I didn’t have Ancelotti down as first choice. Tbf I don’t think SAF’s choices were ever listed in order, but I’ve always thought that he spoke to 1 of either Pep or Klopp first. (Or maybe I’m just trying to convince myself thereof)
But yeah, Ancelotti being approached rings a bell for sure. My shitty memory had me struggling to come up with 5 names which might have been approached before having Moyes at 6 (which might not have been true anyway!).
He deserved many things, but not more time.
What he actually deserved is to be run out of town, with people throwing tomatoes at him, while made his getaway.
He destroyed in 10 months what SAF took 22 years to build.
Some people say that Moyes gets a hard time on this forum. I say, he gets off lightly.
Nah i would have to brush on up on my Mandarin before doing that mate.Not seen you for a while, presumed you were on the numerous Shandong Luneng Taishan fans forums offering your unrivalled support for Marouane Fellaini
I don't think he would have agreed to resign to be honest.
I think most people could see that Fergie left a team that had grown old together over night. They were terrible that season under Moyes and their careers since have mostly proven how big a drop they had all taken.
It was still LVG that disbanded the team, Moyes' changes were insignificant. I remember him saying we needed 6 or 7 top class players to compete, which drew great ridicule at the time. Hindsight doesn't bode well for those that laughed. We've thrown over half a billion quid at this team since then, and are still in search of those top class players. Fecking joke.
It was still LVG that disbanded the team, Moyes' changes were insignificant. I remember him saying we needed 6 or 7 top class players to compete, which drew great ridicule at the time. Hindsight doesn't bode well for those that laughed. We've thrown over half a billion quid at this team since then, and are still in search of those top class players. Fecking joke.
马桶刷
Mǎtǒng shuā
Apparently that's toilet brush in mandarin
I don't think he would have either but no harm the club putting the option to him.
It's not possible for a dominant, league winning team, to suddenly become crap over a summer. David moyes was well out of his depth during his time here and the reports of his antics in the locker room were absolutely ridiculous and so were his comments in the press. He broke every damn record we set.
People who think moyes should have been given more time are absolutely nuts, he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. He is the reason where we are right now.
People who think moyes should have been given more time are absolutely nuts, he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. He is the reason where we are right now.
Of course we are in this situation because we hired Moyes to replace SAF. There is no appreciation of Moyes from me. He destroyed this great club. This thread should also be removed.
To be fair at this stage we're practically onto our second post Fergie squad rebuild. There must be something like players 15-20 players at least signed since 2013 that have already left the club. And no doubt at least another 20 of the 12/13 squad have been sold also.
The real damage to the squad was done in the first two years 2013-2015 in my opinion, first Moyes but especially Van Gaal sold way too many players and bought way too much dross in a very short period of time. Mourinho didn't help either and thats how we find ourselves in our current predicament of needing to practically rebuild the squad from scratch again.
Might have missed a few but heres the players that have left since 2013. I doubt any other top club has had so much squad turnover in the same period. 37 senior players in 6 years.
Zaha, Fellaini, Blind, Di Maria, Falcao, Valdes, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Depay, Darmian, Mkhitaryan, Ibrahimovic, Lukaku, Sanchez.
Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand, Evans, Valencia, Anderson, Rooney, Giggs, Smalling, Lindegaard, Vidic, Hernandez, Nani, Carrick, Welbeck, Van Persie, Cleverley, Fletcher, Kagawa, Buttner, Januzaj, Fabio.
Last edited:
The thread is prospering, no one forces you to read it.
The club had no plan for life after SAF, who after all that was said and done about how no one is bigger than the club, turns out that he was, and some people got a free ride.
The problems started while SAF was still here, the lack of investment and lack of a clear plan on how to keep the club successful.
We really couldn’t have done a worse job and take worse decisions and have a worse luck in the transfer market since 2013 even if we tried, if we weren’t so filthy rich we would’ve been regelated by now.
Quite possibly mate i wish i could convince myself we only ended up with Moyes because no one else was available.You’re correct, though I didn’t have Ancelotti down as first choice. Tbf I don’t think SAF’s choices were ever listed in order, but I’ve always thought that he spoke to 1 of either Pep or Klopp first. (Or maybe I’m just trying to convince myself thereof)
But yeah, Ancelotti being approached rings a bell for sure. My shitty memory had me struggling to come up with 5 names which might have been approached before having Moyes at 6 (which might not have been true anyway!).
But from what can be pieced together from Saf's book and quotes from all the various managers involved convinces me Moyes was first choice all along. Fergie was telling Moyes not to renew his contract with Everton in February so it would be easier for United to hire him. That was before he even told the club of his plans to retire and of course the infamous meeting at Fergusons house where he told Moyes he is the next Man Utd manager took place in late march or early april.
We know from his book he spoke to Pep first but he didn't know he was going to retire at that point (it was before his sister in laws death) by the time he had decided to retire Pep had already signed for Bayern. So he was never an option really, and i think Jose was never an option because one or more members of the board vetoed him, and/or he had already agreed to join Chelsea.
Kloop and Ancelotti both said Ferguson spoke them in April 2013 but neither have actually said they were offered the United job. Was Ferguson just going through the motions half heartedly approaching a few managers to appease some members of the board who wanted a thorough process of due diligence before appointing Moyes? Possibly who knows, i doubt we will ever know for certain.
But the fact that there isn't a quote from any manager that confirms they were actually verbally offered the job by Ferguson bar Moyes is what seals it for me personally that Moyes was the only choice never mind 1st choice.
Last edited:
The decline of this Real Madrid side (Benzema, Bale, Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo) has been a rapid downward spiral within the space of two seasons. The loss of Ronaldo hurt but they were already terrible in the league with him in 2017/18.
That Milan team (Kaka, Pirlo, Seedorf, Nesta, Cafu, Maldini) also declined enormously within one or two seasons.
Ferguson left United in 2013 with an old team that was on its very last legs.
Yeah good post stevoc. Not much to disagree with there.
It’s also highly possible SAF only tried distancing himself from the Moyes appointment after it all went tits up.
Yeah i reckon that was the reason these stories about Moyes not being first choice surfaced in the first place. Moyes failure will have hurt the great mans pride, i doubt Ferguson would have expected Moyes to waltz in and start winning league titles right away. But he probably also didn't envisage just how spectacularly bad Moyes would do in the job. Plus he probably didn't appreciate Moyes throwing him under the bus with his ''even Ferguson would have struggled with this squad'' nonsense.Yeah good post stevoc. Not much to disagree with there.
It’s also highly possible SAF only tried distancing himself from the Moyes appointment after it all went tits up.
Seem to remember Moyes admitting Ferguson also advised him to keep the current staff who will be able to help him. But Moyes preferred to bring in his own staff-Probably felt intimidated at the thought of having Ferguson's management team around. Biggest mistake he made.Yeah good post stevoc. Not much to disagree with there.
It’s also highly possible SAF only tried distancing himself from the Moyes appointment after it all went tits up.
That, & apparently going against SAF’s advice from the start by getting rid of the backroom staff
Fecking Moyes.
That's a big one as far as I'm concerned. Maybe a lot of Fergie's players were still there but the useless gimp got rid of a hell of a lot of institutional knowledge and culture which set the stage for the slide IMO.That, & apparently going against SAF’s advice from the start by getting rid of the backroom staff
Fecking Moyes.
What and spend the rest of our lives hearing "we aspire to be like City" or "Yes Liverpool are the favourites coming to Old Trafford" get real!! I don't care what era it is, even when we were a PL winning machine we were never favourites at Anfield! So why on earth would any United manager have the audacity/stupidity to say Liverpool are the favourites coming to our ground! Even if they are better than us, you don't EVER say that!
Yeah. He was clearly just the wrong possible choice whichever way you look at it
Yeah, just the post below yours, I noted as much. Catastrophic appointment.
I just wanted to be top red. Deserves time is phrase no1 on Ole thread so i wanted to try it.
No doubt that pissed him off too. Might not seem like a huge change but i reckon if he'd kept that staff on things would have transitioned more smoothly and he could have came in the top 4 and kept his job. But he chose sack them all so he has no one else to blame.That, & apparently going against SAF’s advice from the start by getting rid of the backroom staff
Fecking Moyes.
Yep, agreed with that.
He had some really passionate celebrations, got to give him that.
He was told that this was a smoothly run ship and advised not to make too many changes at once. If he had kept the coaching staff and let United play the way they have been playing under SAF then we for sure would have been in the CL position. Then slowly he can replace the older players instead of trying to bring Fellaini the same year. Honestly I do not mind even Fellaini as a back up and a squad player but Moyes changed the whole thing from the first day.
Why are folk still going on about David Moyes binning SAF's backroom staff when whoever replaced the great Man would have done exactly the same, and you know it, it's just what new Managers do, what was he to say to guys that had been loyal servants to him at Everton, sod your mortgages fellas I want you to sit around twiddling your thumbs for 6/9 months just in case I might need you?
Because that was the right thing to do. When you know that your next job is a step up from your current job you equip yourself with resources that can enable you to step up. The dressing room that Moyes was going to manage was filled with PL winners, champions league winners and full internationals. Anyone with half a brain would have realised that a backroom staff of Steve Round, Lumsden, and Phil Neville is not going to impress the champion players they were hired to coach. The fact that Moyes couldn’t realize that and surrounded himself with his mates showed he was not ready to move to the next level and why he should never have been hired in the first place.
Other Managers who go into successful dressing rooms bring with them coaches who have similar successful pedigree and thus are able to gain authority of the dressing room.
To be fair most managers are coming into replace a manager that has been sacked and usually their staff gets sacked along with them, this was also a unique situation. Add to that the fact Moyes and his staff had no experience of winning, Champions League, title races etc. its easy to see why sacking all that experience and know how was his first major blunder. Theres a reason Ferguson advised him to keep the current coaches on.
On your second point as Manager of Manchester United he could have given jobs to Woods, Round and Lumsden somewhere at the club no problem, Lumsden was retiring anyway i believe. And you have to think if Moyes was so concerned about these guys employment status then you have to wonder why he hasn't employed any of them at Sociedad, Sunderland or West Ham.
Moyes didn’t realise it was a step up, he thought Everton were a big club and he’d done well there so what’s the difference. There was a misplaced arrogance about him and a complete lack of understanding about the size of the club. He gave himself no chance from day one.
Not buying that, i'd be staggered if at least half the people he asked(and i'm sure he asked many people he trusted in football, and close friends) what they would do in the same situation re. SAF's staff would have said he had to bring in his own staff because the last thing he needed after the first defeat/sequence of bad results was Mickey Phelan in his ear saying SAF would have done this, SAF would have done that, or Rene holding a seminar with flip-charts aplenty going into graphic detail why RvP wasn't as effective as the previous year because he was playing 2 inches to far to the right.
If David Moyes thought it was the right thing to do it was the right thing for him to do.
And if the players didn't like it, tough, it was his Gig, and the option to leave was always there. Most of them were ready for the Travellers yard any way.
Yeah why would he want that type of knowledge or experience.
Come on mate. At the time i can see the rationale behind Moyes thinking he did what most managers do but he didn't see the bigger picture. In hindsight it was a mistake not to keep Fergusons staff on. At the very least he would have been no worse off than he was with Lumsden and Round but theres a good chance he would have fared better in his first year with Phelan and Mulensteen alongside him.Or wait 8 months until Moyes reign inevitably fell apart and he got the boot.
I'm always open to other peoples opinion, and within a week of him getting the Gig i'd gone from whatever he does he must keep SAF's staff to it will probably be best if he brings his own people in, and i've tried to explain why in post #197, so it was no great surprise that he did just that.
And on his staff, Ramsden was 66/67 at the time and probably retired, I think Chris Woods stayed on after Moyes left for a while then got fixed up elsewhere, and Steve Round got a job with the FA so the option for them to go to Spain with him wasn't an option, but luckily for him nobody wanted Phil Neville so he went with him, I think anyway, maybe I just made that all up.
D'ya thinkYeah why would he want that type of knowledge or experience.
Or wait 8 months until Moyes reign inevitably fell apart and he got the boot.
Or if they'd been professional like Rio and stabbed him in the back with Jagielkagate on Twitter inside a month!