You cannot say Hernandez was a failure after leaving United. He scored 17 goals in 27 games for Bayer in the Bundesliga. Valencia played for United till last year. Welbeck had a terrible time with injuries and yes he was an average player. But none of them were regulars at United apart from Nani and Valencia. Nani too scored almost the same amount of goals per season he was scoring for United after he left United. They spent their best years at United. For sure all of them bar Welbeck would get into this side too at their form when they played for United.
The David Moyes appreciation thread
- Thread starter Sir Scott McToMinay
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Moyes was fecking terrible, but let's not act like Ole is any better. He will be memed for years to come in the same way Moyes is.
I would argue Young and Kagawa spent their best years at Villa and Dortmund.
What you talking about dish it out ffs?So it seems you can dish it out but can’t take it.
Anyway, No one is really getting bent out of shape over Moyes. Its when other posters make excuses for his incompetence then people rightly call it out.
And no one is getting bent out of shape!?
Sorry mate but you've totally lost me there.
Moyes was utterly clueless against the big teams and struggled at Old Trafford, but we played decent attacking football away from home.
Did you just put Moyes and "decent attacking football" in the same sentence?
It was similar football overall to the last Fergie season or two if my memory serves me right, minus the winning of course.Did you just put Moyes and "decent attacking football" in the same sentence?
He was utterly clueless against more than just big teams.
The most laughable thing looking back is how he declared that he had a "squad of champions" as he arrived.
Then it slowly changed to how he'd need a few quality players to win Europe.
Then as he was massively failing, suddenly the squad he'd been left wasn't good enough.
Has to be a wind up, surely?
My abiding memory of the Moyes season is being down in a pub in London watching us play Newcastle and loads of cockneys laughing at how shit we were.
Well the story goes that Ferguson was on holiday in 1998 and phoned Martin Edwards to see how the deal for Yorke was going. Edwards said he hadn't been working on it because there were some people who had doubts about Yorke. Ferguson wasn't happy and asked who these people were, to which Edwards replied Brian Kidd. Ferguson asked Edwards who Kidd thought we should sign and the answer was John Hartson.
We signed Yorke and a few months later Kidd left the club.
No one has said he should have declined the job, plus he wasn't asked about the job, he was TOLD by SAF "you are the next Man United manager" but also told to keep the well oiled machine running just how it is, no dramatic changes. But what did he do? ripped everything apart and made the champions watch Everton training videos. What a complete and utter moron.On the Couch(in treatment)with @Abhinav
Maybe he should have just declined the job offer, and then regretted it for the rest of his life.
And each and every one of us prefer having people around us we feel comfortable with, life is tough enough as it is.
This myth has endured that somehow Moyes was decent away and crap at home, yes we were better away but only marginally. The real contrast in our form was between the top and bottom halves of the league.
We only managed to win 2-3 games against teams who finished in the top 10, over an entire season. This is from a thread i made about it back then, it shows we were basically as crap away from home as we were at home
Being a legend I personally will never meme or ridicule Ole even if sacked. Moyes deserved his abuse for the stupid comments and behaviour; like he was really trying to turn United into Everton. Even if that was an ageing team, we had enough to make top 4 in 2013/14. It was despicable and Ole will not receive the same abuse from the fans no matter what. People will get on his back but he wont receive disrespect to that level, unless you're an oppo fan masquerading as a United fan.
See, despite all you say about Rio probably being true, he is still considered a legend and adored by the fans. The reason being he delivered the goods, did his job on the pitch and played an important part in united winning many major trophies.
The same can't be said for Moyes.
Edit: to clarify my point Rio is given leeway because he ws good at what he did. Moyes is not because he was incompetent.
Care to elaborate mate?
The post I quoted clearly states it includes all results up until the end of the season.
Those are the home and away tables for the day he was fired. In one of them we're a point behind then table-topping Liverpool, in the other we're 24 points behind them (albeit with a couple of games in hand). How exactly is it a myth that we were good away and crap at home?
He wasn't manager until the end of the season.
Yeah i got that mate but what relevance does Liverpool's points total have with the point i was trying to make about a comparison of United's form under Moyes?
If you'd said we had 9 more away points than home under Moyes compared to only a 4 point difference by the end of the season i would say you perhaps had a point. But Liverpool's points total is irrelevant to a discussion about United's.
And yes i can appreciate looking at the seasons totals as a whole despite Moyes not being the manager for the last 4 games could appear unfair or misleading, thats fair enough.
My original point was yes we were better away under Moyes than we were at home but not by much. We have to remember of the 4 games left after Moyes got sacked 3 of them were at home which will skew the results as he had more games to rack up away points.
Had Moyes stayed until the end of the season do you reckon the results as they played out would have been drastically different?
We played 3 teams who finished in the bottom half of the table winning 2 and losing one. We played 1 side who finished in the top 10 and we drew. That form was par for the course that season as the top10 vs bottom10 comparison i quoted clearly shows, i don't imagine things would have been that different under Moyes.
Yes obviously i'm aware mate. I'm also sure everyone else is too hence i didn't think i needed to explain that.
Last edited:
Points totals are only ever relevant in comparison to your rivals. That's literally what a league table is. And being better away from home isn't just about getting more points from away games, it's about results compared to expectations. If a team had the exact same results home and away over the course of a season you'd still judge them as having been better on the road, because winning away from home is significantly harder, that's how football works.
The indisputable fact is that we had an absolutely shocking home record under Moyes and a very decent one away from home. Which strongly suggests we had the quality in the side to have done much better than season, if we'd had a manager who had any idea what he was doing at Old Trafford.
Moyes were awful. Only thing i remember is him breaking negative records every month.
Ahhhh with you, I was still with David Moyes and his YES men
So what you're saying is your banter is so piss poor you couldn't use anything from the previous 20 glorious years to shut the feckers up?
All those games against big teams
Perhaps but a comparison was being made between Uniteds Home/Away form and their form vs Top/Bottom half sides. In which case Liverpools points total is in my opinion irrelevant to that comparison mate.
To an extent yes i'd agree with that but i also don't think it's black and white, for example there are teams who finish in the bottom half of the table every year who have better away form than home form. Style of play is a major factor in that of course.
Again i don't think you can say that mate when we played more away game under Moyes than we did home games. As i said that fact skews those numbers for me. It's entirely possible we could have won the 3 home games we had left had Moyes stayed on, in which case we would have ended up with only a point difference in our home/away form.
I do agree though that we vastly underperformed under Moyes. But personally i think most of that was down to Moyes limitations as a coach. When you look at our form vs the bottom half of the table we were very consistent because we had a much better side and 9 times out of 10 we won through sheer quality. But when it came to the top half and we were playing sides as good as us or at least not significantly we struggled badly. In those games when things are tight a managers strategy and tactics come into play more. And thats where Moyes was found sorely wanting.
I know how the story goes, but we all have to make our own decisions in life, oft against great advice, some time it works, and others it doesn't, but you you can't hold it against, sorry shouldn't hold it against David Moyes unless you personally have never made a wrong choice, or hindsight proved it to be.
And on the video whatever the truth, yeah let's totally ignore the disrespect shown to Jagielka, an England International not some pub player by the way, a fellow pro and apparently well liked in the game, and the then Manchester United Manager whether you thought he should have got the Gig or not, but oh no it's Saint friggin Rio - he fecked up big style and did irreparable damage to the club you say you support that season - Moyes, the club, us the fans needed everybody pulling in the same direction post SAF, yet some of the senior pros(and probably just for giggles) let us all down big style, but it's easier for most(that'll be the spoil little Princesses) to just blame the Manager....
He's kinda right. The first half of the season we'll losing left, right and center to anyone but during second half of the season we played several very good games away from home against midtable clubs, but we were still dogshite at home and got slaughtered easily by every good team home or away.
Mate you seem to still be working under the assumption that Rio started that Jagielka video rumour. And you could be right he might well have done but i'm genuinely interested what makes you believe that?
David Moyes was born in 1963.
@Class of 63 is literally David Moyes, all makes perfect sense now.
You did a real shite job man, absolute disgrace, thanks a lot for
nothing.
@Class of 63 is literally David Moyes, all makes perfect sense now.
You did a real shite job man, absolute disgrace, thanks a lot for
nothing.
I don't know, I can't even say he sent the tweet to me as I don't do twitter.
Is there a way for a Tweeter, or whatever the feck they are called, to find it in the archives using filters?
Oh noooooooo, i've been rumbled
There is mate we've seen recently people with too much time on their hands going through tens of thousands of celebrities tweets to find something offensive they've said in the past. Whether they do that manually or with software i don't know.
But if Rio had posted it on Twitter then he would have been quoted in loads of newspaper articles i'd imagine. You can find all sorts of quotes from him on Moyes but i can't find one where he actually confirmed confirmed or even spoke about the Jagielka story. As far as i can tell the rumour originally started either in a paper or on twitter. You can find quotes attributed to Ferdinand speaking about it but they are only on Twitter with no source.
Vidic sort of confirmed the story a year or two after he left, Moyes denied it. It probably did happen but with the passage of time i don't think it's as bad as it's been made out. If true i doubt Moyes was showing them the video as a way to offend them as if Jagielka was a better player or anything. He probably just wanted them to watch Jagielka and try to emulate his positioning etc.
I don't care if Jagielka was an England international or not. He is not half as good as Rio and Vidic and why the heck should they watch how he defends when they have been defending for seasons a lot better than him?
Hopefully there is somebody on here with too much time on their hands to go looking because i'd love to know for definite.
I remember Rio talking about it on camera possibly just after he left United, probably on Soccer Saturday on Sky where players are more relaxed and looser lipped, they were taking about the video and he was saying stuff like "Yeah man the dude(Moyes) had us watching videos of Everton defending corners, Everton, can you believe that" - there is the possibility that is what stuck in my mind all these years and the tweet was actually from somebody else.
And on Vida, MUTV showed a great interview around the time he was touted for the u23 coaches job/named club Ambassador early this Summer and it was touched on, he admitted certain things happened that shouldn't have but he never had a problem with Moyes, he just had a different way of doing things. Maybe it was Vida then, but I don't even know if he has got an twitter account.
The story goes that Moyes a perfectionist was drilling them on defensive situations and wanted to get it right but certain senior players(no names needed)were playing hell about being stood around in the wind and rain(lads it's Manchester!)doing the same thing over and over so the option to watch videos instead was offered, the rest is history, fact or fiction.
I wonder what would have happened if he showed them videos of Harry Maguire instead? People would slam him in a similar manner, only to have Maguire himself signed for Manchester United now.
Moyes was Fergie’s selection, ‘the chosen man’. Sometimes you have to blame the Sorcerer rather than the apprentice.
It was probably not the best way for Moyes to convey his ideas but he probably thought it would be easier to show them than explain what he wanted them to do. Jagielka not being as good as them doesn't really matter, it was probably more that Moyes wanted Vida and Rio to play how he had coached his Everton players to defend.
Jesus i'm defending Moyes now.
He might have said something about it in a video, we'll probably never know for sure mate. Moyes time at United was a strange period in United's history, strange at the time but maybe even more so looking back. There was so many rumours about things that happened behind the scenes coming out on a regular basis.
I believe Moyes himself was leaking information and no doubt one or more of the players were too. It seems from early into that season that there was a poor environment around the club that was detrimental. Its arguable if that was down to the Moyes or the players, the truth is probably both. Moyes was just a very bad fit for Manchester United on the pitch but in my opinion more so off it.
Ferguson run United like a family club where Moyes was more business like, had a lot of his own ideas and wanted to make wholesale changes. All of which are fine but he should have looked to take a measured approach and implement those changes over a number of years. From what i've heard he was making all sorts of changes the minute he walked in the door which rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
Great reply that mate, i'm not even gonna counter it, I just wish some folk could move on.
He was no Water Smith. Had it been a younger Walter Smith.... "THAT Walter Smith Interview"
Walter Smith, Neil Lennon, etc. They are better managers than Moyes. They have driven "winning" personalities.
During the Walter Smith era at Rangers Celtic couldn't complete because they kept hiring below par managers. Even if Rangers hadn't cheated Walter still would have dominated the SPL.
If Moyes were manager of Rangers Neil Lennon would be laughing... routine domination with a 5:0 scoreline
Moyes is a Tony Mowbray. Not as bad as Ronny Deila or Pedro Caixinha but still not good enough.
Walter Smith, Neil Lennon, etc. They are better managers than Moyes. They have driven "winning" personalities.
During the Walter Smith era at Rangers Celtic couldn't complete because they kept hiring below par managers. Even if Rangers hadn't cheated Walter still would have dominated the SPL.
If Moyes were manager of Rangers Neil Lennon would be laughing... routine domination with a 5:0 scoreline
Moyes is a Tony Mowbray. Not as bad as Ronny Deila or Pedro Caixinha but still not good enough.
Last edited: