The diamond

eltigreFalcao

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
340
Location
Buenos Aires
With our current forward options it would actually allow us to rotate Martial, Rashford, Greenwood without having to rely on James and Ighalo off the bench so could be a good option. The fact that all 3 can drift into wide areas also means they can all be effective playing in a front 2 ahead of a diamond. VDB, Pogba and Bruno can also rotate within the diamond with the attributes they have too.

I do think we will always be at our most dangerous with Martial, Rashford and Greenwood together as a 3 though and if we were ever to sign Sancho then it will be even stronger.
Spot on.
 

youngrell

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
1,825
Location
South Wales
Would you rate a striker that got into good positions that could never finish?
What’s your point?

There’s a big difference between that and expecting your full backs to be your most creative outlets.

We have plenty of creativity through the middle of the pitch but Shaw and AWB can still help us use the full width of the pitch to create space.
 

Enfant terrible

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
293
Swap Bruno and VDB and this is gold. Bruno is an engine, can produce a long pass, and has a cannon, VDB needs to be in tight spaces closer to 2 of the MMM in front.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
11,991
The last team to use a diamond with high success was Zidane's Real during the 2016-2017 season with their first choice XI.

They had Marcelo and Carvajal. Carvajal is a great full-back going forward. Marcelo is probably the best full-back ever going forward.

I don't like it with our current full-back options.
 

KW2006

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
225
I remember we played a few matches with Martial and Rashford as two wide forwards(hug the line, provide width) and Mata as false-9. And it worked quite work(though Mata is not fast enough).

Maybe we could try again with Bruno/VDB as the false-9. With Martial and Rashford hugging the line, it would mitigate the problem of a diamond being too narrow.

In this case, we would have 3 options(Martial, Rashford, Greenwood) for the front 2 positions, and 2 options(Bruno, VDB) for the false-9, even if we failed to sign Sancho or anyone this summer.
 

Eli Zee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
525
I like the idea of a Diamond with 2 strikers. We have no good wide players tbh.

If our fullbacks aren't so good going forward, would it be dumb to ask Pogba, fernandes, rashford, vdb, martial to provide width once in a while? When they do & there is a hole in midfield, Harry or lindelof can move up to fill it while the fullback(s) just stay back..

Or does that not work as all? I understand usually you want fullbacks providing width, but if one of the CMs/AMs provide width or a forward provides width while the Mids all shift up, we could bring a CB up to cover center midfield.
 
Last edited:

TheGame

Full Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
7,474
I always worry about defensively with the diamond. Surely it just creates a gap in the middle if the opposition use a lot of width?
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
16,705
What’s your point?

There’s a big difference between that and expecting your full backs to be your most creative outlets.

We have plenty of creativity through the middle of the pitch but Shaw and AWB can still help us use the full width of the pitch to create space.
If your using a formation which requires your full back to basically be as creative as your wingers.. it would help if your full backs are creative.

We don't have creative full backs therefore the formation will not work as it should. It's like playing 532 with wingbacks that can't defend.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
16,705
My point stands. It is not pointless in the slightest. We have options. Such as when we played split strikers against tottenham away under Ole. before.

You do not need to place your strikers wide to benefit from a diamond that is fairly compact in the middle. Your later points, that I never talked about, answer this question.
To make it effective you only really need 1 offensive full-back but preferentially for full effect you could have 2 attacking FB but moving depending on your instructions.

For other notions of the diamond lets hear from an absolute charlatan and no-mark:

I know I pointed out the split strikers already with Spurs. However it only lasted for 45 mins and our attack was null and void from our wings as you guessed it.. we don't have attacking full backs.

Also the key point of that video is Johan Cryuff.. We have Ole Gunnar Solskjear. It's like ask Gareth Southgate to deliver Pep's tactics.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
6,632
I always worry about defensively with the diamond. Surely it just creates a gap in the middle if the opposition use a lot of width?
Yep, which is why many managers do not use it. It is a FIFA formation.

You create overloads all over the pitch, who covers the opposition full back? The RCM? then who covers the other side? LCM? then you are left with a DM against potentially 3 CM's ?

Do people think Pogba can cover that much ground?
 

sparx99

Full Member
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
1,243
You could use Bruno and Pogba to hold the width. Van De Beek actually kind of did this last night as he was drifting to the LW a lot.

I'd play Fred ahead of Matic because he is far more mobile.

 

Eli Zee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
525
If your using a formation which requires your full back to basically be as creative as your wingers.. it would help if your full backs are creative.

We don't have creative full backs therefore the formation will not work as it should. It's like playing 532 with wingbacks that can't defend.
What if one of the mids help with width while a CB moves forward to cover for them, and the fullbacks stay back? We already see fernandes and Pogba often on the sidelines with the ball throughout the game providing width

maybe let Shawprovide width on the left but on the right, let a mid do it while AWB stays back and lindelof or harry goes up to fill the gap at CDM
 
Last edited:

Havak

Pokemon master
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
6,998
Location
Salford, Manchester
I'd like to see it used at some point but perhaps with Daniel James being tried as a full back. Could be horrible, but it might work. I can see this being a formation we try if we are losing a game at the moment, as without signing another forward this is probably our better 'last throw of the dice' play.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
16,705
What if one of the mids help with width while a CB moves forward to cover for them, and the fullbacks stay back? We already see fernandes and Pogba often on the sidelines with the ball throughout the game providing width

maybe let Shawprovide width on the left but on the right, let a mid do it while AWB stays back and lindelof or harry goes up to fill the gap at CDM
I think it's easier to employ what they tried yesterday. 4-2-2-1-1. This gives your two double pivots the opportunity to shield both Pogba and say Bruno. Also filling in for full backs to go forward whilst VDB acts as a false 9 support striker to Martial or Rashford, which got us Mata's goal yesterday.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
4,055
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
The only reason why we should consider it is because one of MMM trio can be rested. But it'd be foolish not to sign another attacker considering the quality gap between those three and the rest.
 

Cantonagotmehere

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
1,529
Location
Charm City, MD
I just wonder when are we going to stop using this formation that OGS use, it needs out and out wingers that we dont have.
Last year we played the diamond against Everton and it was one of our best performances we ever played there.
With the players we have at our disposal and with the difficulties we face in controlling the midfield I would love to see OGS try the diamond again.

................. DDG
AWB ..... EB.... HM..... LS
................ NM
..........VDB.....PP
.................BF
...........AM.....MM
Trouble sleeping last night and started going through United lineups in my heads. This was my favorite. haha.
 

Class of 63

Sourness
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
9,030
Location
Going through the Desert on a Horse with no Name
I just wonder when are we going to stop using this formation that OGS use, it needs out and out wingers that we dont have.
Last year we played the diamond against Everton and it was one of our best performances we ever played there.
With the players we have at our disposal and with the difficulties we face in controlling the midfield I would love to see OGS try the diamond again.

................. DDG
AWB ..... EB.... HM..... LS
................ NM
..........VDB.....PP
.................BF
...........AM.....MM
Mason Mount?
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
5,408
To me it just screams trying to get all our best players on the pitch at the same time and shoe horning them in. City aren't afraid to leave likes of B.Silva, Mahrez n co on their bench so neither should we.

Where is the strength in depth off the bench too if we flood the first 11 with every star player we have?

Bruno, Pogba n VDB can be rotated. That's what we should be aiming for now.
 

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
3,278
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
...........................Matic
.......VDB..............................Pogba
..........................Bruno
...Greenwood...............Rashford/Martial

Diamond!
 

RashyForPM

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,016
Time to reignite this topic. After signing Telles, I really feel we should play a diamond more, especially tonight since Martial is out anyway. Telles is an attacking fullback who can provide the width on the left, while Greenwood will provide the width on the right flank by drifting out. This would give us real control and balance, and allow us to win the midfield battle, which obviously will likely result in us winning the game at St. James’ Park. What’s more, we can play the Matic-Fred-Bruno 3 which served us so well pre-lockdown while getting VdB in there too for a well deserved first start.

Something like this:

———————Henderson———————
AWB———Bailly———Tuanzebe———Telles
————————Matic—————————
—————Fred————VdB——————
————————Bruno—————————
——Greenwood———Rashford———
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
6,021
Location
Florida
Telles might give us some attacking & width, but, if we don’t have this, we will not succeed in the diamond. If our full backs can’t hack it wide & attacking, we are still a transfer window or two away from being able to deploy this system.

Toss in ineffective defensive shifts from the likes of PP & we will be overrun on the wings & exposed.
 

RashyForPM

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,016
Telles might give us some attacking & width, but, if we don’t have this, we will not succeed in the diamond. If our full backs can’t hack it wide & attacking, we are still a transfer window or two away from being able to deploy this system.

Toss in ineffective defensive shifts from the likes of PP & we will be overrun on the wings & exposed.
We need an attacking right back unless AWB improves dramatically. However, I still think we can play this diamond with some tactical flexibility like Greenwood drifting out wide. I dropped Pogba from my team btw, the guy is lazy and has no passion for the club.
 

Hawks2008

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
4,510
Location
Melbz
Never understood the caf's fascination with the diamond when we don't have the fullbacks for it or a proper holder.

Yeah it sounds good in theory to cram our best midfielders and forwards into one 11 but it won't work.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
6,021
Location
Florida
We need an attacking right back unless AWB improves dramatically. However, I still think we can play this diamond with some tactical flexibility like Greenwood drifting out wide. I dropped Pogba from my team btw, the guy is lazy and has no passion for the club.
Just noticed your 2.0. More balanced definitely. Shaw has not been that bad going forward, but his offensive output has been only minimal to decent. Telles should offer us much more. Just having one outside back who will inject offensive positivity into the team will help immensely. I’m not expecting a rebirth of Evra, but any output by Telles will be welcome.
I would love to see Telles start. That will be a statement of intent by Ole.

All this said, I would still push for 433 as our system.
 

RashyForPM

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,016
Just noticed your 2.0. More balanced definitely. Shaw has not been that bad going forward, but his offensive output has been only minimal to decent. Telles should offer us much more. Just having one outside back who will inject offensive positivity into the team will help immensely. I’m not expecting a rebirth of Evra, but any output by Telles will be welcome.
I would love to see Telles start. That will be a statement of intent by Ole.

All this said, I would still push for 433 as our system.
Don’t get me wrong, when Martial’s back, so would I. Rashford-Martial-Greenwood is still really exciting. For me though, with him out tomorrow, we have to play the 4-4-2 diamond. Probably playing to Telles’ strengths too by having him bomb forward constantly. Who knows, if it works really well, we could take it into the PSG game too.
 

NoLogo

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
16,900
Location
I can't remember why I joined this war.
Never understood the caf's fascination with the diamond when we don't have the fullbacks for it or a proper holder.

Yeah it sounds good in theory to cram our best midfielders and forwards into one 11 but it won't work.
Agreed. It looks pretty on paper and allows us to play two strikers but you are absolutely right it doesn't fix our problem that we have zero threat over the wide positions since our FBs aren't good enough going forward.

I also would hope people realize that after our managers tried pretty much any formation on the planet over the last 6 years and we looked shite in pretty much all of them, that formations aren't our problem.

Edit: forgot we have Telles now maybe he can provide some width, given that he is supposed to be good at crossing but that will help us with any formation not just the diamond.
 

Gabagoo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 15, 2020
Messages
246
Personally I'd play a 352 because we don't have complete-enough FBs to both attack and defend. But if we did use a diamond, I'd go with this:

............................... de Gea ........................

Wan-Bissaka ... Lindelof ... Bailly ... Telles

............................... Matic ..........................

......... McTominay ...... van de Beek .........

............................. Bruno(c) ......................

..................... Cavani ... Rashford* ...........


* Only if he's fully fit; otherwise use Martial.
 

archiebald

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
280
I would play:

Henderson
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
AWB Matic VDB Telles
Pogba Fernandes
Greenwood

About time to give Henderson a run out as he's too good to be sitting on the bench. Last chance for Pogba to prove himself in a preferred advanced position too.
 

SoCross

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
2,445
Changed the game, the tactical switch. Would love to see it again.
 

Fosu-Mens

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
4,069
Location
Fred | 2019/20 Performances
Having 3 central defenders and a more attacking left wingback makes for some stability and flexibility.
Given that we to some degree defend by numbers and attack with individualism, this formation suits our players' strengths and hides some of their deficiences.

Bruno, Martial and Rashford work well together and got the individual qualities to create something on their own or can be a danger from range. Fred and McT, while not being good on the ball or the best passers, works hard and covers a lot of space. And having 3 at the back with the two midfielders in front of them makes us less susceptible for counters when our wingbacks are high up the pitch.

I would be interested to see this formation and setup against a team with a more compact defensive structure than PSG, just to see if our attackers can create as many dangerous situations against more players and with less space.
 

SoCross

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
2,445
Having 3 central defenders and a more attacking left wingback makes for some stability and flexibility.
Given that we to some degree defend by numbers and attack with individualism, this formation suits our players' strengths and hides some of their deficiences.

Bruno, Martial and Rashford work well together and got the individual qualities to create something on their own or can be a danger from range. Fred and McT, while not being good on the ball or the best passers, works hard and covers a lot of space. And having 3 at the back with the two midfielders in front of them makes us less susceptible for counters when our wingbacks are high up the pitch.

I would be interested to see this formation and setup against a team with a more compact defensive structure than PSG, just to see if our attackers can create as many dangerous situations against more players and with less space.
Think this goes into the 3-5-2 thread and not the diamond thread?
 

Berbasbullet

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
8,796
Been championing this for a while, it just makes sense, Pogba can attack more, Bruno can attack, the split strikers can go wide and run at defenders.
 

Artorias

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
159
Location
Manchester
I hope that Ole keeps playing this same formation. That PSG game is the better example that this formation could work in the long run. We don't have any real wingers, so why keeps playing them?
Telles and AWB did very well.
I would love to this team every week.

DeGea
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
AWB McT Fred Telles
VdB Bruno
Rashford