The diamond

Lay

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Didn’t RBL dominate the first half though? Bruno changed the game more than anything
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Didn’t RBL dominate the first half though? Bruno changed the game more than anything
I remembered we dominated half of the first half. They did for the other first half. Either way, there is no fix formation. Ole is flexible and has many in his locker to choose.
 

Adam-Utd

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If it's a choice between playing MMM up front or a diamond which gets the best out of Pogba I'm not picking the later
Yeah it’s a tough choice, but gives us good flexibility in future matches. If pogba plays like that though he can play next to Fernandes with Fred behind them no problems.
 

Adam-Utd

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Haha, fair enough.

Just glad we won. Absolutely buzzing!
I’ll agree with that! Best performance I can remember for a long time. We genuinely looked so silky, I’ve wanted us to play with that sort of tempo and movement for ages and it just finally clicked.

why are we such a bunch of game raising wankers?! We better not give a half assed performance on the weekend.
 

Berbasbullet

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I’ll agree with that! Best performance I can remember for a long time. We genuinely looked so silky, I’ve wanted us to play with that sort of tempo and movement for ages and it just finally clicked.

why are we such a bunch of game raising wankers?! We better not give a half assed performance on the weekend.
Oh you just know we will :lol:
 

Foxbatt

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It is the 4 man in midfield that got them stumped. yes they had possession after we scored but we were solid most of the time. By the time Rashford and Bruno came on they were tired which helped us a lot. We should not play 3 up front especially against better teams.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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I’ll agree with that! Best performance I can remember for a long time. We genuinely looked so silky, I’ve wanted us to play with that sort of tempo and movement for ages and it just finally clicked.

why are we such a bunch of game raising wankers?! We better not give a half assed performance on the weekend.
Well, this is it. In order to take us to that next level, we need to be a lot more consistent, because we've shown that we can beat amongst the best teams in Europe on our day.
 

Adam-Utd

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Well, this is it. In order to take us to that next level, we need to be a lot more consistent, because we've shown that we can beat amongst the best teams in Europe on our day.
Yep, we genuinely can beat anybody. We thrashed sevilla but couldn’t put the ball in the net and they had an easier game against bayern in the super cup.

I really do think this team has huge potential, we have to remember how young it is too.
 

3KDré

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Didn’t RBL dominate the first half though? Bruno changed the game more than anything
Not really. They did have a lot of the ball but they didn't do that much with it.
 

AneRu

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The diamond is no panacea to all of our problems; it has a time and a place. Just appreciate the fact that we have the players to shift from system to system with increased ease.
It's no panacea but with our current strengths and weaknesses I think we need a formation that utilizes our best players and covers for our weaknesses.

With a diamond or a 4-2-2-2 does that. We somehow forget how devastating Pogba is when he plays further up or how Martial and Rashford always bring the best out of each other. With Bruno into the mix we have the makings of a fantastic front four, all capable of creating, linking up play and scoring goals.

Fred and McTominay with the energy and defensive nous to shore up the midfield and protect the back four. Its really simple.
 

Suvvernmanc

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It definitely suits our squad. We are stacked with quality midfielders (never thought id be saying that) and not many wingers so it allows us to play with more creativity and solidity centrally while playing 2 of 4 of our attackers who are strikers really. Rashford, Martial, Greenwood are good coming of the left/right but ultimately will thrive playing in a 2. And trying to get Cavani minutes is a good problem to have.

I dont get the whole.. 'find you best formation and stick to it' thing. You should play a formation that best suits us against whichever opposition we face. The diamond looked good last night as it got donny and Pogba on the pitch together with 2 good players to do the dirty work behind. Last night it was Matic and Fred (who was fecking incredible) and Scott and Bruno coming off the bench. I'd be happy to change formations as we now have the quality to change styles/formations during a game If need be.
 

Mr Smith

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It won't be appropriate in every game, but I do hope we start playing this formation more frequently, especially against weaker opposition. It suits so many of our players, and there's actually not quite the width problem I was worried about.
 

Freak

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The diamond clearly works for the players we have. We should stick with it. Rashford is much much better playing central in this system than he is as a left wing forward in the 4-2-3-1. Even Pogba looked good after such a long time - who knew?
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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It won't be appropriate in every game, but I do hope we start playing this formation more frequently, especially against weaker opposition. It suits so many of our players, and there's actually not quite the width problem I was worried about.
Interestingly we've seen it do well against strong opposition.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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Play Pogba on the left of a diamond, nearer the touchline, when he plays in the middle he is pressed from two or three directions with his back to goal. Laurie made a good point in The Athletic that the touchline removes a direction from which he can be pressed.

He looked like a £90m WC midfielder. I mean, he looked unreal. Those performances have been few and far between and shows where he needs to be played. Keep him close to the forwards, transition through Midfield, and play the killer pass.

Fred and Matic behind him works because Fred has the legs and Matic has the screen. Matic on his own with Pogba in a double pivot, is left with too much to do. Diamond is great. Three at the back is great.
 

bosnian_red

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Not really a diamond but definitely a 4-2-2-2. Looking at what we have, its easily the most suited. Sometimes we'll adapt it to a 352, but I definitely think we should use a 4-2-2-2 as our regular formation.

Gk - De Gea/Henderson
RB - Wan Bissaka/Williams
CB (2) - Maguire/Lindelof/Tuanzebe
LB - Shaw/Telles
CDM (2) - Fred, McTominay, Matic
CAM (2) - Bruno, Pogba, Van de Beek
ST (2) - Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani
Added depth - Bailly/Mengi/Jones, Mata, Lingard, James, Pellistri, Ighalo/Diallo (January).

Basically any given game we'd rotate the main options with full confidence, but also with having the 1/2 quality players per position on the bench to change things. Then if we do a full rotation, have the further depth to pick from to complete a full 2nd 11. Its a very strong group, didn't expect us to go for a narrower attack like that, but the addition of Telles really will help and give us a lot more options to change things around and develop as a team.

Using 2 of Fred/Matic/McTominay as the double pivot ensures we always give the foundation and protection that the front 4 need to push up. They still work hard defensively as Pogba showed yesterday, but just puts less pressure on defensive positioning which isn't their strength. McTominay and Fred especially are excellent ball winners and support enough with ball progression, but it lets us use 2 of our excellent 4 attackers in their best positions, uses 2 of our 3 excellent attacking mids in their best positions, and ensures nobody is over relied on. Fred possibly the only one I guess, since McTominay/Matic as a 2 isn't great usually. Van de Beek can play as part of those 2 though, so if we go full rotation maybe we pull Van De Beek deeper to replace Fred and use Lingard/Mata as the CAMs?

Games we need more width, we put Telles in at left back and he can stretch the pitch down the left and deliver balls into the box, other games we use Shaw and roll the dice on what attacking performance he puts in, but knowing we'll have 4 top class attackers who like to drift on the pitch anyway. Biggest benefit is it gets us solid defensively, but of course gives us plenty going forward too. Just need to put our top players out there and they'll figure it out. We shouldn't be using someone like James or Lingard or Mata apart from full rotation games.
 
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CG1010

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Playing a formation a few times against specific occasions is fine. But to make it the default one is a completely different game. Teams will start adjusting to counter it which would be to overload the wings. I am not convinced that this should be our staple formation in the PL.
 

Adam-Utd

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Playing a formation a few times against specific occasions is fine. But to make it the default one is a completely different game. Teams will start adjusting to counter it which would be to overload the wings. I am not convinced that this should be our staple formation in the PL.
Arsenals 3-4-3 should counter it pretty hard so it'll be interesting to see how we play on the weekend.

Think we might adjust it to be a bit flatter more like a 4-2-2-2.
 

gerdm07

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Play Pogba on the left of a diamond, nearer the touchline, when he plays in the middle he is pressed from two or three directions with his back to goal. Laurie made a good point in The Athletic that the touchline removes a direction from which he can be pressed.

He looked like a £90m WC midfielder. I mean, he looked unreal. Those performances have been few and far between and shows where he needs to be played. Keep him close to the forwards, transition through Midfield, and play the killer pass.

Fred and Matic behind him works because Fred has the legs and Matic has the screen. Matic on his own with Pogba in a double pivot, is left with too much to do. Diamond is great. Three at the back is great.
If pogba looks good on the left why can't he look good on the right. We don't need another good player on the left.
 

Jim Beam

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That was not a typical diamond, VDB was so far ahead that it was almost 4-3-3 pushing forwards very wide.

That way we sorted lack of width from fullbacks and pushed Pogba in his favorite channel on the left. VDB also acted like a false 9 in attack.

We played this often at the start of Ole's tenure with Lingard in that role upfront, but de Beek is obviously a massive upgrade. Very nice tactic to have and makes us pretty unpredictable in the attack. Not sure it should be set in stone for this team, but we should definitely play it more often, especially since Bruno can play in it without any problems.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Have we played this formation under Ole before or has he somehow stumbled upon it given who was available etc?
 

Lee565

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One thing that slightly holds it back is bissaka still, though I was watching the recent u23 game and Williams was playing as the right back and looked fine on that side, I hope he can be given a chance in the first team in that position
 

georgipep

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Arsenals 3-4-3 should counter it pretty hard so it'll be interesting to see how we play on the weekend.

Think we might adjust it to be a bit flatter more like a 4-2-2-2.
Considering Arsenal play deeper with long balls in the channels to hit teams on the counter, I expect us to play the 4-2-3-1 with Tuanzebe having a personal assignment on Aubameyang and McTominay to cover the gaps behind. Not sure if Cavani is ready to start as ideally I'd want him to start with Rashford and Mata on either side and Greenwood on the bench. Fred seems to have an endless energy capacity and expect him to start with Bruno in his usual position too. Fred will probably be tasked to bite at Ceballos, Xhaka and Saka's heels.

Biggest concern is if Thomas and Xhaka manage to close down Bruno. If we aren't winning by 60th minute, Ole will throw Pogba in and later Donny to add playmakers. Hopefully Mata's presence will be enough to make the difference. Considering their CBs will be a combination of Luiz, Gabriel and Mustafi, I'm pretty confident there will be another penalty for us, even if Martial is not on the pitch.
 

R77

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That was not a typical diamond, VDB was so far ahead that it was almost 4-3-3 pushing forwards very wide.

That way we sorted lack of width from fullbacks and pushed Pogba in his favorite channel on the left. VDB also acted like a false 9 in attack.

We played this often at the start of Ole's tenure with Lingard in that role upfront, but de Beek is obviously a massive upgrade. Very nice tactic to have and makes us pretty unpredictable in the attack. Not sure it should be set in stone for this team, but we should definitely play it more often, especially since Bruno can play in it without any problems.
It was def a fairly flat 433 off the ball in the first half. Maybe like a 4312, as VdB was usually a hair behind the front two. It stretched into the diamond once we got out of our half. At least that's what it looked like to me, but I was consciously trying to see what was happening after discussion on here. Fairly apt in the personal sense, as a few hours before, I'd confused myself trying to write a post about whether we should go diamond or 4312 and realising they're very close anyway. Just goes to show that numbers on paper aren't the be all and end all I guess. It can get murky very quickly, and boils down to roles if anything.
 

Andycoleno9

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It is not matter is it classic diamond (41212) or is it 4222. The matter is that in both tactics we use our best players and play on their strength.
In 4231 we have players out of position and some of quality players must stay on the bench.
In variations of 442 our team (on paper) looks as title challenger.
Midfield of Fred, Bruno, Pogba and plus one of Matic, McT and VDB is match for any midfield in the world. Every player is in his natural position.
In attack we have excellent 4 attackers and we start game with 2 and have two on the bench. Every each of them is natural on central forward. But in 433 neither of them is on natural position. Only Cavani is natural no9. Martial works best in pair and neither of them is natural on the wing.

As i was saying and saying and saying; managers job is to find best formation. And my biggest criticsm of Ole was that he blindly sticks with that 4231 which does not suit our players.
Now he must stick with this and coach it.
 

Jim Beam

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It was def a fairly flat 433 off the ball in the first half. Maybe like a 4312, as VdB was usually a hair behind the front two. It stretched into the diamond once we got out of our half. At least that's what it looked like to me, but I was consciously trying to see what was happening after discussion on here. Fairly apt in the personal sense, as a few hours before, I'd confused myself trying to write a post about whether we should go diamond or 4312 and realising they're very close anyway. Just goes to show that numbers on paper aren't the be all and end all I guess. It can get murky very quickly, and boils down to roles if anything.
Yep, especially considering how de Beek operated. One of the reasons I liked it I guess as it gives a sense of unpredictability to our team with him constantly switching from midfield to attack.
 

Ferguson’s Hairdryer

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Been thinking the diamond is our best formation for a while...

What I’d love is a diamond with DVB, Pogba, and Bruno plus one of the defensive CM’s vs weaker opposition.

A diamond with Bruno, Pogba/DVB, Fred plus defensive CM away from home vs decent opposition.

And a diamond with two holding players like we played vs Chelsea, against top opposition,

But I’d still like to see if trying out play top opposition works. As I think DVB, Pogba, Bruno are 3 of the best and instead of trying to negate top teams, I’d like a one match where we try to outplay then.

If we flop and are losing 2/3 nil by half time I won’t blame Ole, as it’s a risk you have to take to see if it works.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Playing a formation a few times against specific occasions is fine. But to make it the default one is a completely different game. Teams will start adjusting to counter it which would be to overload the wings. I am not convinced that this should be our staple formation in the PL.
This is exactly what happened with that 4-2-3-1
 

Remember the geese

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I've been wanting to see this used for quite a while. I hope it's here to stay. Bruno with spilt strikers, Pogba with creative freedom. What's not to love?
 

Gabagoo

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We don't have any wingers, so 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 are useless for us.

We either go diamond or 3-5-2.I I'drefer 3-5-2 because I think it's suits more of our total players, but the diamond probably suits our better players.

It really depends on whether we want to be a more free, expressive team or a hard-working, disciplined unit with potent attackers. I'd say that we should go with the latter, judging our squad overall.

But I also think there should be room to use either system.
 

GenZRed

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Good to see he is being bold enough to stick with what has worked previously rather than reverting to old school 4-2-3-1.

Perhaps we have finally found the system that works?
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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I've been saying we should try it for awhile s it suits our best players but today is a big test!