Yep, that's what has impressed me most, too. Before joining us, i had no idea he was so good on the ball.
The disrespect of Nemanja Matic
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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Its the age and not being able to play super regularly. Needs to be used sparingly but yes he should probably be the starter and saved for the bigger games. His composure on the ball, positioning and intelligence as well as being able to pick out passes means he's probably the best choice, but McTominay is ever improving so I see him as the long term guy.
Can tell you might be a Matic fan so don't want to go to deep into his flaws. One thing that needs to be said is you're mixing mobility with speed. Midfielders can be mobile without being fast. You're also downplaying some of his flaws. Midfields often need someone with legs. That's why we had Fletcher playing with Carrick or Scholes and in CL ties we often played all three.
Truth!!!
Apart from a few games here and there, he has been on a retirement tour ever since he joined from Chelsea. People were tearing their hairs out on here, but now it seems to have been forgotten.
On the flipside he's had a lot of bad games for us as well, it's not about respect, we need a more dynamic holder if Pogba is staying, and we need someone that can keep it up for a full season, Matic only has half a season in him before his tank is on empty these days. If he's content to stay on as a squad player like Carrick and Scholes and Giggs did when they got older, cool, just as long as the he stops the little sly digs in interviews if Ole isn't starting him week in and week out.
He has been completely written off on the Caf a while ago. Seriously underestimated. And then his character was being questioned early in the season - and he's a top class professional.
Kante isn’t even a defensive midfielder! Jorginho plays there.
True. Lot of people actually gave credit to his recent good performance so it's not like people are being disrespect on the player but what about what he did in the first half of this season & last season? The poor performances shouldn't be ignored! Ball watching & lazy. He received the credit that he deserves, he also received the critics that he deserves.
In fact, I have no issue about him being mobile or no, but not tracking your runners or your men is just unbelievable. When I saw Fred getting passed, he'll still track back the player. But prior Burnley away game this season, when player get passed Matic and instead of track back, Matic was just jogging & ball watching instead of helping his team mate.
Ole was talking about player's fitness were shocking last season, he saw this issue from Matic since last season, and that's why he didn't play him much this season. Whether he only started care now or his legs are already gone that he needed rest and can't play too many games, a midfielder shouldn't be ball watching. I've seen 36 years old Carrick still run his socks off to catch Aguero.
It has been a bit more than here and there.. he looked really good his first half year after joining for example. Been on he decline since with some good games here and there after that.
All together he likely played around a full season worth of good games for Manchester United?
I've always rated Matic. Even when he was poor and people were saying we need to sell him. It was evident he was over played by Mourinho (again like the end of the title winning season with Chelsea going into the next).
Technicaly, positionally, reading of the game, passing, ability to hold and move the ball, tight space control etc he is brilliant imo. However, the major issue is not him but the midfield partnership of Pogba and Bruno, that passive bag of piss Lindelof and to an extent Ole's tactic/coaching.
Right now a well rested Matic is more than apt against most opposition. My problem is that the above conditions may means there is a greater area of defensive coverage, space between defence and midfield and a tactical lapse, which makes any third midfielder potentially suspect.
In 5-15 yard spaces, hands down Matic is superior. It's the 15-30 yards where I just think Fred's tenacity and overall skillsket (whilst not as refined, is as rounded but good in other aspects) may complement the others.
I.e In a well drilled unit with everyone taking equal and clear responsibility in spacing, pressing, shape etc, it's Matic. In this organised chaos of well managed players with freedom to express but light on details, I'd go for Fred.
Lindelof can still do one though. Hopefully Bailly gets a chance.
Technicaly, positionally, reading of the game, passing, ability to hold and move the ball, tight space control etc he is brilliant imo. However, the major issue is not him but the midfield partnership of Pogba and Bruno, that passive bag of piss Lindelof and to an extent Ole's tactic/coaching.
Right now a well rested Matic is more than apt against most opposition. My problem is that the above conditions may means there is a greater area of defensive coverage, space between defence and midfield and a tactical lapse, which makes any third midfielder potentially suspect.
In 5-15 yard spaces, hands down Matic is superior. It's the 15-30 yards where I just think Fred's tenacity and overall skillsket (whilst not as refined, is as rounded but good in other aspects) may complement the others.
I.e In a well drilled unit with everyone taking equal and clear responsibility in spacing, pressing, shape etc, it's Matic. In this organised chaos of well managed players with freedom to express but light on details, I'd go for Fred.
Lindelof can still do one though. Hopefully Bailly gets a chance.
I feel it's a bit of a strange time to start this thread tbh.
I think most thought he was finished and his legs had gone till his recent resurgence.
Remember how poorly he played in pre-season and how easily he was bypassed? That was taken by many so proof that he was finished.
However, since he's come back into the team this year I've seen nothing but praise for his performance and posters admitting he'd surprised them, that maybe he just needed a rest and can't play every week etc.
He definitely needs replacing or at the very least a younger player to come in as understudy as it appears he can't play week in week out and he's the only DM we have.
I think most thought he was finished and his legs had gone till his recent resurgence.
Remember how poorly he played in pre-season and how easily he was bypassed? That was taken by many so proof that he was finished.
However, since he's come back into the team this year I've seen nothing but praise for his performance and posters admitting he'd surprised them, that maybe he just needed a rest and can't play every week etc.
He definitely needs replacing or at the very least a younger player to come in as understudy as it appears he can't play week in week out and he's the only DM we have.
Matic was extremely poor under Jose in his last season and half. He would escort the opposing player.
Yes he has been good in this season. He simply cannot play every match. Yes he is our best defensive midfielder. Yes he needs Fred alongside him now.
I want to see a midfield of 4 with Matic and Fred with Bruno and Pogba.
Yes he has been good in this season. He simply cannot play every match. Yes he is our best defensive midfielder. Yes he needs Fred alongside him now.
I want to see a midfield of 4 with Matic and Fred with Bruno and Pogba.
Matic was absolutely atrocious during the last 12-18 months of Jose's tenure. Then he was left out by Ole for ages precisely because he'd been so bad, and probably wasn't impressing in training either. After such a long break he came back and played well for us.
For Chelsea and for us, he's been a 'one good season followed by an absolute stinker of a season' player. Whether it's confidence or hubris or fatigue, he has never played two good seasons back to back in England.
And now on top of that he's old, so obviously we should be looking to the future.
For Chelsea and for us, he's been a 'one good season followed by an absolute stinker of a season' player. Whether it's confidence or hubris or fatigue, he has never played two good seasons back to back in England.
And now on top of that he's old, so obviously we should be looking to the future.
He is having very good season since he is back from injury (post operation). Before that his performance was average to poor and deserved criticism, maybe he wasn't fully fit and played with injury which might be the reason.
Since his come back his performances are very good.
Since his come back his performances are very good.
Of all the players that seem to have improved since Fernandez was added he is top of the list. He really benefits from movement in front of him. Options really bring out the best in him. Before Fernandez I wanted him gone, since he is a different player.
I was sat beside a bloke in the south stand against Norwich this year and he was having a good game. He had just had a bad game away v Liverpool. The bloke commented how well he was playing and I said he needs to do it against the big clubs which he hadn't the previous week. I think we signed Fernandez a game or two later and I ate my words for a month or two. He was quality. Then we had the lockdown.
I was sat beside a bloke in the south stand against Norwich this year and he was having a good game. He had just had a bad game away v Liverpool. The bloke commented how well he was playing and I said he needs to do it against the big clubs which he hadn't the previous week. I think we signed Fernandez a game or two later and I ate my words for a month or two. He was quality. Then we had the lockdown.
Anyone crying that Matic is too old need only to check 2 things;
1) his most recent form for us this season
2) the top 3 scorers this year in the "best league in the world" Premier League are all over 31. In fact the top scorer, is 33.
1) his most recent form for us this season
2) the top 3 scorers this year in the "best league in the world" Premier League are all over 31. In fact the top scorer, is 33.
Problem is that he is overplayed and runs out of steam. Common knowledge but Jose did it anyways and then he was blackballed for a bit.
Agree he is our best deep midfielder and crucial to breaking down teams that park the bus. Which is almost everybody.
We need to be using him sparingly and finding a back up who like him can control play from deep intelligently. Not just a player who can tackle.
This is whataboutery. The evidence suggests he's on the decline, no longer has the legs he once had and that he can't play every match.
What relevance have some other players who play in a different position's goal scoring record got to do with that conclusion?
What operation did he have?
I had thought his last surgery was at the start of the 2018/2019 season.
He's certainly a level above Fred and McTominay who get lauded above him because they run about a lot, which should be a given in any athlete to be honest.
He had one this season I think around November time.
My first point was clearly not whataboutery. You can disagree with his form this season, sure.
I understand the reference in my second point is for a different position, however, it's meant to highlight the fact that being over 30 is not as career-killing as it was even 15 years ago.
Not a Matic fan by any stretch I just think people are painting an unfair picture of him. I would like to hear your thoughts on his flaws.
You’re right I did conflate speed incorrectly so let me readjust.
Mobility wise he recently recorded the highest distance covered by a United player in our game against Watford in Feb 2020 with 11.64km covered. Not bad for an immobile crock.
Due to his size he’s a lot more mobile than people realise. Often players like Fred are praised because as smaller players they appear to move more often which is true, more movements are required to cover similar distances.
You are absolutely right some teams need legs I’m assuming you mean high work rate here and against the biggest sides I absolutely agree if we are playing counter attacking football Fred or McTominay might be better picks. But when you are dominating possession I’d rather have a line breaking passer who is composed and less likely to be out of position.
I think we have some excellent options in midfield and I believe Matic has a big role to play still. I will add to that though that he’s not the best DM in the league and so it’s a position we do need to start looking at improving on soon.
That’s my point. He’s a better footballer than them & makes more sense positionally to play with Pogba & Bruno, yet was completely disregarded. There’s even a thread on here called who should be our third midfielder Fred or McTominay.
I can't find anything online about that at all. It would tie in with the upturn in form, obviously.
I like him. But He will need to be replaced soon, just because He's almost 32.
Players decline at different times for various reasons.
I don't see anyone saying he's to old purely because of his age and I've not said he wasn't playing well this year.
I also don't see anyone saying that his form has been bad this year so I'm not sure what your addressing there.
Even I'm not able to find now. I remember reading about it around Jan time.
Ole spoke about it saying he played on with injury and can't do anymore.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...hester-united-injury-latest-rashford-17162701
The subject certainly justifies it's own thread. And not before time. Yes he went through a bad patch, but you can see there's still a player in there. I'd have him starting games for us any day of the week. Bruno Pogba Matic goes without saying for me. If we play a 4-man midfield then McTom comes in. End of!
This. Matic was pretty woeful for a long period starting under Mou and continuing with Ole. To his credit he has looked good since January/February. We can't start him every game as I'm sure his form would drop quickly.
We can't use him against the teams that quickly move the ball because he is getting bypassed quite easily but against all the other teams he is clearly our best option in DM and it's quite shocking to see McTominay ahead of him. I understand he is a local lad etc but Matic is levels ahead of him.
Disrespected hugely by United fans but it really is vital we look to add to the DM position. We all knew he wasn’t going to be a long term option when we signed him, we just cant rely on Matic to play 40+ games a season and he’s the only out and out DM we have.
He's had a purple patch where he's done better this season after not getting a look in at the start of the season. But even though hes had a better period he's 31 and has a lack of mobility. He's fine for right now, he's not fine for moving into the future.
He was terrible last season
As my moniker will tell you I am a big fan of Matic, he is still a class player, although I admit his very best years are behind him. The back injury sustained at Chelsea returned during the previous close season and he struggled for a while, but he is one of our most important players as Ole seeks to transition to a new well balanced and structured team. Matic is buying Ole time for such as McTominay, Garner and maybe others who are coming through to reach the right level for a DM. There are some games he should play in and some he shouldn't, but he is a great backup squad player to have.
It's no slight on Matic at all. He is very much last in the pecking order of senior players in midfield. It doesn't devalue what he can do but:
Ole wants to play with more energy in midfield. That is why he favours Fred and McTominay.
If you want to play Pogba in a midfield 2, Matic is just not mobile enough to be his partner.
Matic is declining. His first season at United was excellent but he has been on the decline since and with United building a team for the future, there is far more long term benefit in playing younger players.
He still does a good job and is likely to stay until Jimmy Garner is ready for the first team but he won't be first choice for United again.
Ole wants to play with more energy in midfield. That is why he favours Fred and McTominay.
If you want to play Pogba in a midfield 2, Matic is just not mobile enough to be his partner.
Matic is declining. His first season at United was excellent but he has been on the decline since and with United building a team for the future, there is far more long term benefit in playing younger players.
He still does a good job and is likely to stay until Jimmy Garner is ready for the first team but he won't be first choice for United again.
Matic still has some fans out there it seems, currently leading this poll anyway
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Matic is and has always been a considerably better player than both Fred and McSauce. The bad spell he had was durin' the time the whole team was weak but he was a stand out player in 17/18 and this season he's bee good when called upon.
I think these days people place far too much importance on let's call it energy. It shouldn't make up for quality
I think these days people place far too much importance on let's call it energy. It shouldn't make up for quality
Needs to be the first name on the team sheet. Compliments Pogba & Bruno beautifully & is simply a better footballer than Fred & McTominay.
I was one of those that said he was done. I was dead wrong, the man is fine as long as he is not over played. Class player.
He is an intelligent pro, and has filled a Carrick-sized gap in style and positional sense.
We'll need another player in the same mould in a few years.
We'll need another player in the same mould in a few years.