The disrespect of Nemanja Matic

[Adam-Utd]

I was one of those that said he was done. I was dead wrong, the man is fine as long as he is not over played. Class player.

I don't think it was unfair to say that - he looked absolutely shot, I couldn't remember being so annoyed at a United player ever.

He was awful whenever he played, jogging around the pitch and could hardly run with the ball or pass progressively.

It's clear now he was injured and struggling but decided to carry on (probably detrimental to himself) to help the team.

The period of rest has him back at his best. I feel like he knows Jose wants players to "fight through the pain" and he never dropped him which is why he got all the abuse.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The reason I think Matic is a priority is because we know he'll be going at some point soon, probably next summer, and I think it makes more sense to try and buy a young player who can have a season of adjustment, than to gamble on finding the finished article next summer.

 

[Tincanalley]

When you were only a glint in your mammys eye, there were people in here slagging off Michael Carrick. Redcafe is the best and most informed MUFC forum. You should look at some of the rest. However I’d hazard a guess that maybe 1/5 if this audience have ever been to a game or played Football. Tolerance and that little ignore button are your friends

 

[Highfather_24]

He’s not a DM. He can’t sit & dictate the tempo like Matic. McTom is a box to box, he should be Pogba & Bruno’s understudy.

What about Fred then? He is not as creative as Pogba and Bruno. He is not a sitting midfielder like Matic. And having Fred/McTominay as backup for Pogba and Bruno for creativity is not enough. So we need another creative mid backup. And if we buy another DM we have 6 midfielders for 3 positions.

 

[Pass and Move]

Not read the entire thread, so apologies if this has already been covered, but I would move him to CB to play alongside Maguire.

He has the height, and would be less exposed there due to lack of pace. He's great at stepping up to intercept, and it would allow us to play someone with more energy in front of him. he would also give us some much needed passing from the back, someone who can thread the ball from deep through to the midfield, not just send it wide to the full backs. I think if little Mascherano did it at Barca, then Matic could do it for us.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Matic's presence ensures that Maguire doesn't constantly hog the ball. When Matic plays, we play a 4-3-3 because he sits back and dictates tempo and lets the midfield in front of him take risks in the opposition half. When he doesn't, we fall into a 4-2-3-1 with Fred and McT and our build up play suffers as neither of them are looking to retain possession or dictate the tempo. Unfortunately, we don't have any back up for the qualities that Matic brings. Maybe Garner can be that player but its way too early. I just hope we're able to maintain the system from yesterday even when Matic doesn't play.

 

[Deery]

Not read the entire thread, so apologies if this has already been covered, but I would move him to CB to play alongside Maguire.

He has the height, and would be less exposed there due to lack of pace. He's great at stepping up to intercept, and it would allow us to play someone with more energy in front of him. he would also give us some much needed passing from the back, someone who can thread the ball from deep through to the midfield, not just send it wide to the full backs. I think if little Mascherano did it at Barca, then Matic could do it for us.

Naw, I wouldn’t move him now when he’s playing so well might only upset him, plus Lindelöf is playing quite well too..

 

[UpWithRivers]

Why is it that everyone thinks he cant last two games like he's 40 or something? Or saying he cant go on forever and will need to move on? Or saying he should move to CB. I dont get it. He's 31 isnt he? Carrick retired at 36, loads of players are older than him and played on for years. Yeah we have a young team but not everyone needs to be early twenties. If Matic continues this form and its not just the last game but the last 6 months and previous years then surely we have one of the best DMs in the world. And he has at least another 2 or three good seasons in him. Maybe more. Its not as if he relies on pace.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Matic's presence ensures that Maguire doesn't constantly hog the ball. When Matic plays, we play a 4-3-3 because he sits back and dictates tempo and lets the midfield in front of him take risks in the opposition half. When he doesn't, we fall into a 4-2-3-1 with Fred and McT and our build up play suffers as neither of them are looking to retain possession or dictate the tempo. Unfortunately, we don't have any back up for the qualities that Matic brings. Maybe Garner can be that player but its way too early. I just hope we're able to maintain the system from yesterday even when Matic doesn't play.

I honestly think McTominay can mature into that kind of player. If he manages to cool down a bit, and improve his passing, he has all the attributes needed.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I honestly think McTominay can mature into that kind of player. If he manages to cool down a bit, and improve his passing, he has all the attributes needed.

McTominay is more dynamic. His energy in pressing is more useful in the opposition half. I see McTominay as a perfect cover for Bruno or Pogba. For Matic's cover, we need someone with positional awareness, ability to dictate tempo and confidence in keeping the ball from the start. Carrick was a master in this role for us.

I feel that Matic though can do the job for us at least for a couple of seasons. No reason to treat him like he's half retired.

 

[seegoblu]

While his form has been impressive lately, I can’t help but worry that selecting him for the starting XI consistently will result in loss of that form. He simply isn’t mobile, quick or fast enough to play in a normal schedule of fixtures, never mind this much more compressed and exhausting slate of matches since restart.

I fear that this purple patch is the result of the three month break rejuvenating his legs and to expect this to continue (and relying on it in constructing next year’s squad) is a mistake.

That said, I do think Magic’s form does clearly show what Ole should be looking for in a midfield replacement.

 

[Godfather]

I honestly think McTominay can mature into that kind of player. If he manages to cool down a bit, and improve his passing, he has all the attributes needed.

Don't think McTominay can develop into anything like Matic. He is a great crafter, and worker. Runs his socks off. But he simply lacks the footballing ability Matic has.

 

[fps]

While his form has been impressive lately, I can’t help but worry that selecting him for the starting XI consistently will result in loss of that form. He simply isn’t mobile, quick or fast enough to play in a normal schedule of fixtures, never mind this much more compressed and exhausting slate of matches since restart.

I fear that this purple patch is the result of the three month break rejuvenating his legs and to expect this to continue (and relying on it in constructing next year’s squad) is a mistake.

That said, I do think Magic’s form does clearly show what Ole should be looking for in a midfield replacement.

On the plus side, if you have McTominay around you hopefully have someone who can learn to play that role as well and take some of the games and burden.

 

[Striker10]

Matic when he's good, is very good. He looks mobile and he compliments the play really well. Yesterday, we talk about other midfielders but Matic was energetic and had a good game and that's what people want to see. I think he was a good purchase and I'm hoping there's a lot more to come.

 

[tenpoless]

When He first came I remember people were so happy and called Chelsea idiots for selling him.
But just like any other players, He got shit on pretty quickly once His performances started to dip.
Matic was always a good midfielder.

 

[Maticmaker]

We have been searching for a good DM to replace Carrick for ages....even before Carrick retired. Jose solved the problem temporarily with bringing in Matic. Had Jose remained he would be searching now for a replacement , probably internally looking at Garner, although the lad has a way to go yet, he is the most probably the only real possible DM replacement currently on our books. Looks like Ole's doing the same.

McTominay is a useful player but not an out and out DM, more in the Darren Fletcher style . Scott can break up opponents play and go on lung-busting runs into the final third/opponents penalty box, but he is not, (at least yet) capable of reading the play and making the incisive forward balls that both Carrick and Matic can... but who knows in time?

 

[Ace of Spades]

Matic is now performing well, so deserves to get the recognition that it warrants. I guess it is good that all of Fred, Matic and McTominay give us something different and we can change the team set up as we need.

Against teams that sit deep, I think he is a very good option, especially if the opposing team does not have any pacy players in attack, he is just fine. He should have 2 or 3 seasons left in him, provided that we regulate his playing time and he remains injury free.

That should give time for us to search for a replacement, and time for the likes of Levitt or Garner to develop in that time hopefully.

 

[Tincanalley]

Thread title is great - it’s like the title from the hagiography of a saint - much tormented for their faith but constant to the bitter end! Saint Nemanja ...

 

[manutddjw]

There was one moment yesterday that illustrates how good Matic is. Shaw went on a run and tried to set something up for Martial which didn’t work and Shaw went to close down the keeper who hoofed it away. That ball went straight to where Shaw had left and Matic was right there in the left back spot to get the ball. If he doesn’t do that and there’s a Sheffield player there it puts us under pressure.

 

[Zen86]

He’s definitely turning in the performances but he’s probably best used in the type of games where we expect to be quite dominant. He hasn’t got the pace to keep up if the midfield gets overrun IMO.

He’s certainly a class act though.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I’ve seen it all over social media for the entire lockdown, “who starts with Bruno & Pogba - McTominay or Fred?” I’ve seen people saying DM is the position that we most urgently need to strengthen along with RW & I highly disagree.

The majority of fans have Matic on their “sell” list when discussing our squad, like he’s a Pereira, Jones or Lingard level player. May I ask why? He is our best (and only natural) DM by a country mile, rarely misplaces a pass, keeps it simple, tackles & intercepts well. What is the issue with him? Why is he so often disrespected & disregarded by our fans?

He hasn’t had a poor game since last season, so the only thing I can think of is that a lot of fans just don’t actually watch the games & judge him on being shit on FIFA perhaps? Or is it because he’s in his 30’s? The number of people who rate McTominay higher than him is astounding to me.

In my humble opinion, upgrading our GK, CB, LB, RW & CF are all more of an urgent priority than upgrading on Matic. This myth that Fred & McTominay are better suited for playing with Bruno & Pogba needs to die. Would Ndidi & Partey even be the giant upgrade fans seem to think? Because I don’t see it. Getting a top quality left back, centre back & right winger post season is far more important.

If you remember right, it was the same thing with Carrick. Carrick was never really appreciated at United until he retired. People were constantly on about how he "doesn't score or assist enough" and that he "doesn't make big tackles". And it was in those moments that I realized that most people don't know shite about football. In their mind, a proper DM was Scott fecking Parker. Well, that hasn't changed. I like McTominay, but he is not a DM and people need to understand that. He's a box to box midfielder similar to Darren Fletcher (nothing wrong with that). But he is not a DM. Matic is our only DM and should be starting the majority of games. Especially if Pogba and Bruno are starting. Fred and McTominay don't have the discipline to sit and play in that role like Matic does and like Carrick did. With the being said, the DM position is our second most important need right now, but not because Matic has done anything wrong other than age...

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

What was the reason for his bad performances for us. Was it that he just lost form sort of like Lingard has become now or was it something else?

 

[OleTheGreat]

On the defense of our fan base here, i'd like to say that none of us disagree that Matic is a great defensive midfielder. The reason he's on the sell list is because when it comes to teams that pass faster and move around faster, he usually gets caught up. He's an amazing player when it comes to play a quicker pass through the lines and sweeping up behind the attacking midfielders and in front of defense but his reactions and pace has fallen so bad that a team like Liverpool or City will easily play around him let alone the likes of Real Madrid or Barcelona. I think he can do well against smaller teams and gibe us that squad depth but definitely not a starter anymore.

 

[ghagua]

Nonsense. He was signed from Chelsea with a warning from their fans to manage his game time because he runs out of puff mid season. He started excellently for us then Mou ran him into the ground. Shit management.

He needs to be rotated. Nothing more. Class player and needed against teams sitting deep.

Mctominay and Fred have had good seasons but they can't do what he does, like the performance today.

Few decent games and people quickly forget. He is not an old player that needs to be managed like a player in his mid 30's. He was supposed to be player at his peak age.

 

[ghagua]

It has been a bit more than here and there.. he looked really good his first half year after joining for example. Been on he decline since with some good games here and there after that.

All together he likely played around a full season worth of good games for Manchester United?

Yup, and he got the praise he deserved. He also got flack when he was underperforming and rightfully so.

 

[Green_Red]

Pre Brunos arrival Matic wasn't good for United. Since, he has been a revelation. I'm not afraid to say it either, he was dogshit in some games. Now I think he could end up being an important player for us. His attitude is right, he's a bit older so could mentor the younger lads. Can't fault him at the minute.

 

[Icemav]

Few decent games and people quickly forget. He is not an old player that needs to be managed like a player in his mid 30's. He was supposed to be player at his peak age.

Forget what?

He doesn't have season long stamina. Didn't at Chelsea either. No point pretending otherwise.

 

[Slik]

Matic was horrendous to watch under Mourinho last season. Side ways and back passing every time. He always slowed down our play or totally ended attacks by just taking the ball back. And this was not for a few games either. It was for a very long period and even at certain periods during ole’s time as well. Mourinho never rested him either (atleast Ole saved us from having to watch him sometimes) . Fans just got fed up with him. So it’s really taking time for us to adjust to this ‘back to playing good’ matic. Happy he has improved and I am hoping he never goes back to those ways again. I never despised a player more during those periods. Even thinking about it now boils my blood.
Every criticism he received then was well deserved. He is now playing better and he deserves his praises too. But don’t ask stuff like you don’t understand the disrespect. He brought it on himself with those super annoying and poor performances. Always ending forward momentum by passing backwards ‍

 

[Skeezix]

Everyone knew he was a good DMF, at occupying spaces, making interceptions and putting in tackles. But I am thoroughly surprised by him under Ole's tactics.
I didn't know he was so good at dictating the tempo, making passes between the lines, through passes, crossfield passes and holding the ball and dribbling in tight spaces in short spurts to evade 2-3 opposition players. So impressive.

With Bruno putting in good shifts and tracking back when needed - which is rubbing off on a Smiling Pogba making tackles more than ever. These two putting in defensive duties in a cohesive team, I am not too worried about Matic. I have a feeling we will get 2 years out of him still.

I just hope the knives are not out in case of a catastrophe in the next game against the Big teams.

 

[hmchan]

Kante has revolutionized the way people look at defensive midfielder, now everyone considers mobility and coverage as the top priorities for a DM. This is very different from what we learnt from the past, when the likes of Busquets, Alonso, Carrick were called top DMs in the world.

They didn't have the legs to cover lots of ground either, but they read the game so well that they cut out the danger without travelling so much. This allowed them to sit comfortably in front of the backline without getting caught out of position. They also had the ability and vision to bring the ball out of defence, which is an attribute many have overlooked nowadays.

Football isn't marathon, you don't have to cover every blade of grass to win; football isn't sprint, you don't have to outpace everyone to be a good footballer. I really can't understand why people love to judge Matic specifically in the two areas he is not good at, and ignore all those important aspects for a DM.

 

[11101]

If you remember right, it was the same thing with Carrick. Carrick was never really appreciated at United until he retired. People were constantly on about how he "doesn't score or assist enough" and that he "doesn't make big tackles". And it was in those moments that I realized that most people don't know shite about football. In their mind, a proper DM was Scott fecking Parker. Well, that hasn't changed. I like McTominay, but he is not a DM and people need to understand that. He's a box to box midfielder similar to Darren Fletcher (nothing wrong with that). But he is not a DM. Matic is our only DM and should be starting the majority of games. Especially if Pogba and Bruno are starting. Fred and McTominay don't have the discipline to sit and play in that role like Matic does and like Carrick did. With the being said, the DM position is our second most important need right now, but not because Matic has done anything wrong other than age...

People didnt like Carrick because he was a replacement for Keane, that was the standard, and he was never going to be better than the Irishman.

Matic is still great positionally and knows how to get the ball out of tight spaces. However, he can't be expected to do a full season playing every game, and he no longer has the legs to keep up with the best attacking teams who dont allow us to control possession. We need another option because he will start to falter if we rely on him for every game.

 

[Irrational.]

He's looking completely refreshed since we resumed, and complements Brogba beautifully. Long may his form continue.

 

[buckooo1978]

I think we need a bit of realism on our midfield.

Matic, McTominay and Fred are all very good midfielders but they could all be improved upon undoubtedly. Matic was awful for years but he has certainly improved since Christmas.

Each of those midfielders have their qualities.

In a game where we arent being pressed so much and teams are defending deep Matic is our best option. He plays well deep, covering well and he passes better than the others. Against teams like Sheffield United and Brighton I'm not surprised to see Matic look fantastic.

In a game where we can be swarmed in midfield or against a high pressing side McT and Fred are better options. Matic is simply too slow and lacking the same energy.

I dont think its disrespectful to question him as he is far from the complete midfielder. If we had the chance to get a Keane level player I'd not miss it.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Always been a quality player. Overplayed at club and international level In recent years. One of several misused players in recent years. The lad looked buggered. Like Carrick before him, only starts to get appreciated when there’s a chorus starting up.

its Matic, y’know
never believe it’s not Carrick

 

[tombombadil]

When you were only a glint in your mammys eye, there were people in here slagging off Michael Carrick. Redcafe is the best and most informed MUFC forum. You should look at some of the rest. However I’d hazard a guess that maybe 1/5 if this audience have ever been to a game or played Football. Tolerance and that little ignore button are your friends

ahh ... i remember those good old days of Carrick can't pass. And Sack Fergie and Sell Goggs (sic) haha....

 

[ReddBalls]

Pre Brunos arrival Matic wasn't good for United. Since, he has been a revelation. I'm not afraid to say it either, he was dogshit in some games. Now I think he could end up being an important player for us. His attitude is right, he's a bit older so could mentor the younger lads. Can't fault him at the minute.

He was good before Bruno too. He was instrumental in the victories against Burnley and Norwich for instance, but he suffered when the rest of the team played badly.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

People didnt like Carrick because he was a replacement for Keane, that was the standard, and he was never going to be better than the Irishman.

Matic is still great positionally and knows how to get the ball out of tight spaces. However, he can't be expected to do a full season playing every game, and he no longer has the legs to keep up with the best attacking teams who dont allow us to control possession. We need another option because he will start to falter if we rely on him for every game.

Which is why I said that a new DM is our second most important position to fill after a left footed winger...

 

[MadDogg]

What was the reason for his bad performances for us. Was it that he just lost form sort of like Lingard has become now or was it something else?

Hopefully it was just that he was being over-played, and we can solve this simply by giving him regular rests. Under Mourinho he basically played 90 minutes every single game in every single competition.

It was very obvious in his first season how he started the season brilliantly but after a few months his form entered a slow but extremely steady decline. It was like every month he was playing slightly worse than he had the month before, and by the end of the season he was quite poor.

 

[Adnan]

On the defense of our fan base here, i'd like to say that none of us disagree that Matic is a great defensive midfielder. The reason he's on the sell list is because when it comes to teams that pass faster and move around faster, he usually gets caught up. He's an amazing player when it comes to play a quicker pass through the lines and sweeping up behind the attacking midfielders and in front of defense but his reactions and pace has fallen so bad that a team like Liverpool or City will easily play around him let alone the likes of Real Madrid or Barcelona. I think he can do well against smaller teams and gibe us that squad depth but definitely not a starter anymore.

This.

 

[Adnan]

People didnt like Carrick because he was a replacement for Keane, that was the standard, and he was never going to be better than the Irishman.

Matic is still great positionally and knows how to get the ball out of tight spaces. However, he can't be expected to do a full season playing every game, and he no longer has the legs to keep up with the best attacking teams who dont allow us to control possession. We need another option because he will start to falter if we rely on him for every game.

This

Keane was a different level and raised the level and tempo of the team in comparison. It is that profile of player we're missing now.