The dominos that will fall because of Covid-19

Fosu-Mens

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They get more money if they take a pay cut.
And they are more likely to have a job afterwards. It is basically a decision between getting paid less now, but increased possibility of having a job in the future, compared to demanding full payment now and increased risk of the employer not surviving.

As long as this argument or the situation is explained in a way that is understandable, the choice is obvious... As long as the employees can survive on the pay cut/furloughing etc and everyone agrees.
 

arnie_ni

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They get more money if they take a pay cut. The maximum of £2,500.00 under the Furlough system is less than if they get a pay cut. We are a construction company and some sites remain open. Some have been furloughed but we need to have teams working.

We didn't stop work on some sites. We have invoiced for works we did after the lockdown and the main contractors are not paying properly. The dispute resolution service is not working properly and the courts are tied up. We have nowhere to turn. Its awful and getting worse by the day. We have foreman overseeing a fraction of the work they normally do and we only have so much money in to pay them. If the jobs overrun we need extra payment for the foreman and fixed site costs over longer period of time but nobody wants to pay for this.
Just to be clear here... on the furlough scheme you can still pay furloughed staff full pay, its the claim from the government thats restricted.

Please be aware any staff not working you can claim 2.5k a month for them.

Also, id look at legal advice re the contractor not paying. Can you stop your work and not be in breach of contract if they arent paying, send all staff home on furlough, claim the 2.5k per month each and you top them up yourself.

That would, based on what you've said, greatly help your cashflow.

Even if half your workforce could be furloughed. The scheme is there to help the employer. Its up to you if you top their wage up.

There is also a 12 month no payment loan backed by the government released yesterday that might help you with your short term cash flow a bit until the contractors get their head out of their ass and pay.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-a-coronavirus-bounce-back-loan

Cash flow should be your main concern and discussed with employees. I know as an employee id rather be furloughed on less money knowing I'll have a job to come back to than paid close to my normal wage for a few months then have my employer go bust and have no job...
 
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blue blue

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Just to be clear here... on the furlough scheme you can still pay furloughed staff full pay, its the claim from the government thats restricted.

Please be aware any staff not working you can claim 2.5k a month for them.

Also, id look at legal advice re the contractor not paying. Can you stop your work and not be in breach of contract if they arent paying, send all staff home on furlough, claim the 2.5k per month each and you top them up yourself.

That would, based on what you've said, greatly help your cashflow.

Even if half your workforce could be furloughed. The scheme is there to help the employer. Its up to you if you top their wage up.

There is also a 12 month no payment loan backed by the government released yesterday that might help you with your short term cash flow a bit until the contractors get their head out of their ass and pay.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-a-coronavirus-bounce-back-loan

Cash flow should be your main concern and discussed with employees. I know as an employee id rather be furloughed on less money knowing I'll have a job to come back to than paid close to my normal wage for a few months then have my employer go bust and have no job...
I'm not sure where you live or what your living costs are but in London the max' £2,500.00 doesn't go so far as it does in other regions. If you are a building worker in London on £45-50k a year, and that isn't so unusual, £30k a year doesn't cut it and you will have to take some serious decisions on how to live.
 

arnie_ni

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I'm not sure where you live or what your living costs are but in London the max' £2,500.00 doesn't go so far as it does in other regions. If you are a building worker in London on £45-50k a year, and that isn't so unusual, £30k a year doesn't cut it and you will have to take some serious decisions on how to live.
I think your misunderstanding what im saying. The 2.5k per employee per month goes to the employer. You can then still pay stafd full pay.

It sounds like your missing out on a "free" 2.5k per month per employee.

Maybe you are claiming it already so apologies if you are
 

2cents

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Rory’s out:

 

Sandikan

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Look forward to the detail behind all this.
But much more importantly the furlough situation beyond June - which presumably will be clarified this week?
 

shamans

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So along with twitter, FB has announced it is targeting 50% remote workers. For those of you in tech such as myself, you're aware of the ridiculous salaries in some tech hubs such as SF, Seattle or NYC. SF in particular is crazy but comes with an extremely high cost of living. Plenty of companies had remote teams before but Facebook going for 50% may see a ripple effect.

This would genuinely be good for the economy if it works out. Too much wealth was concentrated in the big cities and we may see mid western/eastern smaller hubs rise. I think office spaces will be in trouble unless they can pivot into venues for other commercial activities.

Interested in seeing how this will all pan out. Work culture won't be the same for a while.
 

Revan

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So along with twitter, FB has announced it is targeting 50% remote workers. For those of you in tech such as myself, you're aware of the ridiculous salaries in some tech hubs such as SF, Seattle or NYC. SF in particular is crazy but comes with an extremely high cost of living. Plenty of companies had remote teams before but Facebook going for 50% may see a ripple effect.

This would genuinely be good for the economy if it works out. Too much wealth was concentrated in the big cities and we may see mid western/eastern smaller hubs rise. I think office spaces will be in trouble unless they can pivot into venues for other commercial activities.

Interested in seeing how this will all pan out. Work culture won't be the same for a while.
Would be interesting to see. I am really struggling to be as motivated as when in office, and most people I have been talking have been saying the same. It is just tough.

Facebook has been brave to announce that they are going full W4H until the end of the year, when most comparable companies are extending the W4H orders every month. I still don’t know if I am gonna work from home or from office next month.

I would be surprised if W4H for half of the people works. In fields when creativity of required (in tech companies, especially in research positions) is just too soul-draining working from home. I enjoy my work, but the most enjoyable part of it was having discussions with my colleagues, and zoom is not a real replacement.

If they do W4H, I wonder if they will also reduce the salaries. Salaries are batshit crazy in top tech companies, but as you said, the prices for everything (especially rent) are batshit crazy too.
 

Wibble

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Would be interesting to see. I am really struggling to be as motivated as when in office, and most people I have been talking have been saying the same. It is just tough.

Facebook has been brave to announce that they are going full W4H until the end of the year, when most comparable companies are extending the W4H orders every month. I still don’t know if I am gonna work from home or from office next month.

I would be surprised if W4H for half of the people works. In fields when creativity of required (in tech companies, especially in research positions) is just too soul-draining working from home. I enjoy my work, but the most enjoyable part of it was having discussions with my colleagues, and zoom is not a real replacement.

If they do W4H, I wonder if they will also reduce the salaries. Salaries are batshit crazy in top tech companies, but as you said, the prices for everything (especially rent) are batshit crazy too.
I'm being far more productive and only occasionally do I find a meeting that would have been better done F2F. We are at home until at least the end of June and it may be extended and/or a gradual return to work will then occur. I'd like to work from home 4 days per week on a permanent basis. I'm certainly going to insist on 2.
 

Revan

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I'm being far more productive and only occasionally do I find a meeting that would have been better done F2F. We are at home until at least the end of June and it may be extended and/or a gradual return to work will then occur. I'd like to work from home 4 days per week on a permanent basis. I'm certainly going to insist on 2.
Yeah, I guess it depends on the person. I am generally quite lazy so that doesn’t help. Also, I really enjoy my lunch and coffee breaks with colleagues.

Meetings are better F2F, but it has been alright with zoom and co. Still, at times is hard to explain everything on online meetings.
 

shamans

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Would be interesting to see. I am really struggling to be as motivated as when in office, and most people I have been talking have been saying the same. It is just tough.

Facebook has been brave to announce that they are going full W4H until the end of the year, when most comparable companies are extending the W4H orders every month. I still don’t know if I am gonna work from home or from office next month.

I would be surprised if W4H for half of the people works. In fields when creativity of required (in tech companies, especially in research positions) is just too soul-draining working from home. I enjoy my work, but the most enjoyable part of it was having discussions with my colleagues, and zoom is not a real replacement.

If they do W4H, I wonder if they will also reduce the salaries. Salaries are batshit crazy in top tech companies, but as you said, the prices for everything (especially rent) are batshit crazy too.
I just accepted a new internal role within the copy thats fully WFH and I love it so it does depend on the person. I know another friend of mine who loves it.

The day is yours I feel. I can take impromptu breaks, play my guitar for 5 mins then get back to the grind. I also feel like I eat garbage when Im at work (from the nearest fast food place) while I cook from him

That said I worked remote before too and didnt like it. Id say the biggest thing is management really has to make an effort to make it collaborative. Everyone on the team should be remote else it doesnt work imo.

Still you do miss out on a lot especially if its not well implemented from top down. For far its not been long and I hope I can develop the same bond I did with teammates at work.

Another thing to remember is this current wfh setup is not the natural state. restaurants and bars are closed and you cant really work from a coffee shop.

We also have a local startup hub kinda place here where you can rent an office space for 200 a month which is pretty ncie since youre surrounded by collegues and what not.

So I 100 % understand people who hate it but me and another friend of mine love it. Could be because we love gardening and having a dog and the wfh live makes it so much more easier. That and I can just go to my uncles place in NYC for a week and not worry about taking time off.

Edit: regarding salaries I think bay area and seattle might see a drop. Places like San Jose are nothing but devs left right and center and the housing market is dumb. A lot of people who just want to raise a family will not wanna pay north of a million for a 2 bed condo. Seattle is affrodable but I think without tech a lot of it is expensive housing with a ton of rain -- it will still be a massive hub.

I dont see cities like NYC changing though. Theres way too much pull there and the housing will have a lot of value with or without tech.

Youll definitely see hubs like Atlanta, Raleigh and Portland emerge which would be great for the economy.

For any investors out there keep an eye on St Louis and the triangle in NC. Gonns boom imo
 
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Shakesy

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I'm bumping an old thread. It's still relevant, though.

Maybe a return to listening to experts and people who do science and stuff for a living.
Nope
You curse, critized, but give it 2 or 3 months it'll be business as usual.
If only you were right...
Anti waxers might wisen the feck up.
Wouldn't that be nice?
...And the narratives will be set by the rich and powerful, as usual.
Yup!
This really isn't as big as it appears.
Oh, those were the days...
A full end of public in sporting events. Forever.
Thankfully, this was wrong
The US is divided and this will get worse.
Indeed.
 

11101

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I actually wonder if it could be the real end of the EU, never mind Brexit. Unthinkable to say a month ago but a lot has changed in the world since then. Italy already knows but i expect other countries will find out how 'together' Europe really is once this is over.

China sent us people and equipment. Now Russia is too. We haven't had as much as a face mask from the rest of Europe.
I got this one wrong. If anything after a brief struggle early on the EU has closed ranks and become stronger.

Happy to be corrected but off the top of my heard, in times of crisis people have always retrenched into their national/local identities. The Great Depression, World War 1, World War 2, the oil crisis.
But i got this one right. Particularly in places like the US and UK.
 

Luke1995

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@Shakesey In regards to my own quote, i'm still fearful about that. There could be more pandemics in the future.

It blows my mind how the world managed to spend so many years without one.