The emerging physicality in the team

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I feel this is something worth mentioning and tracking.

Between Wan Bissaka, Fred, Williams, Maguire (ignore the crotch stamp) and McTominay with Bailly hopefully on the fringes, there is a core of players who like getting stuck in, make some tackles and not afraid to leave a mark. Slowly but surely there is a nascent nastiness emerging, especially in defence and midfield on which foundations can be built for a team.

 

[lysglimt]

What I feel is even more important is that we are signing leaders - this was something Ferguson did frequently as well. He signed a lot of captains and players who showed in all kinds of ways that they were mentally tough.

 

[Fletchageddon]

When you look at our best teams 99 + 08 eras every player was essentially hard. Even Ronaldo the "show pony" was 6'2 and got stuck in.

There is a definite strength and togetherness in the team. You saw it last night with Fred's yellow card. He was protecting his team mate and willing to fight for him. We haven't seen that in years.

 

[pascell]

Add Grealish next to the list of captains signed please.

 

[Buster15]

I feel this is something worth mentioning and tracking.

Between Wan Bissaka, Fred, Williams, Maguire (ignore the crotch stamp) and McTominay with Bailly hopefully on the fringes, there is a core of players who like getting stuck in, make some tackles and not afraid to leave a mark. Slowly but surely there is a nascent nastiness emerging, especially in defence and midfield on which foundations can be built for a team.

This is an important point and certainly worth raising.

We mustn't get too carried away with last night excellent result, mainly because of the lack of consistency.
But I can see signs of increased fitness. And that is allowing players to be more on the front foot.

Manchester United teams were renoun for their physicality.
And that adds to the fear factor of playing against us.

 

[Bilbo]

When you look at our best teams 99 + 08 eras every player was essentially hard. Even Ronaldo the "show pony" was 6'2 and got stuck in.

There is a definite strength and togetherness in the team. You saw it last night with Fred's yellow card. He was protecting his team mate and willing to fight for him. We haven't seen that in years.

It wasnt too long ago that our team stood by and watched Noble carrying Herrera off of the pitch. That Fred moment was great

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

This is an important point and certainly worth raising.

We mustn't get too carried away with last night excellent result, mainly because of the lack of consistency.
But I can see signs of increased fitness. And that is allowing players to be more on the front foot.

Manchester United teams were renoun for their physicality.
And that adds to the fear factor of playing against us.

This isn't an isolated game either, I remember the home game against Leicester and Leicester were shook by how physical McTominay and Wan Bissaka were getting even while they had Ndidi, Tielemans and Choudhary in midfield.

It might not be coming through more often considering how much these players have been stretched due to a lack of depth but given adequate recovery time, this is not going to be a team that is fun to play against.

 

[Havak]

I was just speaking about this with some work colleagues. We are getting to a point where we could very soon have a strong balance of players who are up for a fight and players who usually have the technical quality required to punish teams. I really like it and I am starting to 'like' this Man Utd squad again as Gary Neville would put it. The likes of Bruno Fernandes, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, maybe Mata if he stays (and Pogba but less-so as I am 90% sure he leaves) are the players with the potential for flair, pace or both. While most of the other players, most notably Williams, McTominay, Matic, Maguire, Bailly, Jones, Lindelof, Wan-Bissaka and even Fred are either up for a fight or at least don't mind getting stuck in or pressing hard. If we can get rid of the right players again and have another window of good recruitment (I think our signings under Ole so far are all more of a success than not, even if not exactly world-beating quality all-round) then we'll be in a really good place next season.

Still, I think Ole has to be replaced by Poch for us to really develop faster, but that's for the other thread.

 

[Parma Dewol]

It's great to see, isn't it? Don't want to get too carried away, as we're often up for it against the so-called better sides, but for years now I've felt as though the team has been far too soft.

As above, loved Fred sticking up for Toni Martial last night. Wan Bissaka squaring up, Brandon Williams with a tactical foul, there was plenty of that sort of commitment, which you absolutely need to have.

Taking it even further, I'd argue that to be a top football team you do need to bend the rules and be well versed in the 'dark arts.' Everyone else does it, and if you don't constantly nag the referee, feign injuries, go down easy at times, or waste time when it suits, you're going to be at a disadvantage. Hope we show the same level of fight and commitment against Watford on Sunday.

 

[Buster15]

This isn't an isolated game either, I remember the home game against Leicester and Leicester were shook by how physical McTominay and Wan Bissaka were getting even while they had Ndidi, Tielemans and Choudhary in midfield.

It might not be coming through more often considering how much these players have been stretched due to a lack of depth but given adequate recovery time, this is not going to be a team that is fun to play against.

Good point.
I am cautious about getting too optimistic.
Do you think that the break has had anything to do with this.

I am delighted that Fred is showing his true worth.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I don’t think it’s ‘emerging’ per se. We have players who press and have been physical for a while: Baily, Maguire etc and previous to that Young, Herrera. McT has had that presence since his debut but has only got physically stronger while Pogba can put it about a bit.

Williams has a bit of the‘ dirty bastard’ about him and I like that;shows he won’t be bullied. I just think that Ole grew up in the era where we didn’t let teams dominate us technically while we stood around and admired it. The great Arsenal games spring to mind.

On the flip side it needs to be managed carefully. We can come unstuck against sides who move the ball quickly if we’re are preoccupied with the physical nature of the game.

Good modern sides manage a balance between the two and we just need to do the same

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Good point.
I am cautious about getting too optimistic.
Do you think that the break has had anything to do with this.

I am delighted that Fred is showing his true worth.

The break definitely has a lot to do with it, especially for overworked players like Martial, Fred, James and to some extent Matic. Once the numbers start adding up in the squad with the return of McTominay and Pogba, hopefully this is a more regular occurrence.

 

[Lee565]

It's nothing new though as we had this under Mourinho when he brought in the likes of bailly, Ibrahimovic, pogba, matic, lukaku whilst favouring the likes of Herrera as a defensive midfielder, fellaini, rojo and bringing through mctominay.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

It's nothing new though as we had this under Mourinho when he brought in the likes of bailly, Ibrahimovic, pogba, matic, lukaku whilst favouring the likes of Herrera as a defensive midfielder, fellaini, rojo and bringing through mctominay.

Other than Herrera, none of those can press and tackle without conceding fouls and the McTominay of this season is a far cry from the version Jose had.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Yeah we have some physical players around for sure. Sad that we have been so bad on set pieces even with muscles and height.
Hopefully yesterday was a sign of things to come.
Our midfield in particular got it and I guess that was Mourinhos plan too with Fellani too.

I think what we really miss is a top right winger and a striker unless Martial can start performing more regulary.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I feel this is something worth mentioning and tracking.

Between Wan Bissaka, Fred, Williams, Maguire (ignore the crotch stamp) and McTominay with Bailly hopefully on the fringes, there is a core of players who like getting stuck in, make some tackles and not afraid to leave a mark. Slowly but surely there is a nascent nastiness emerging, especially in defence and midfield on which foundations can be built for a team.

I get the physicality/getting stuck in bit.....

What I feel is even more important is that we are signing leaders - this was something Ferguson did frequently as well. He signed a lot of captains and players who showed in all kinds of ways that they were mentally tough.

.... but I honestly don't see the leadership bit. Not yet but hopefully it improves.

I want Maguire screaming at his co-defenders, I want De Gea shouting at players (never going to happen?) about where to go for crosses/free kicks, I want midfielders urging forwards to make runs, I want players racing to protect each other.

To be fair to this team, I'm probably comparing them to previous ones.... 70s (Buchan, McIlroy, Macari...), 80s (Robson, Hughes, Moses, Whiteside), 90s (basically an entire team of leaders), 00s (Rio, Vidic, Rooney...).

We've had loads of players that I'd call leaders, ones that you felt would never give a cause up. I don't think we've got many now... some that show signs of it but maybe need to do it all the time, start to rebuild the "never say die" attitude and an element of wariness in opponents.

 

[TRUERED89]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Bailly is equally as comfortable on the ball as Lindelöf and definitely more physical and quicker off the mark. I'd like to see him and Maguire get a run of games together to see if we have something there.

 

[sp_107]

Add Grealish next to the list of captains signed please.

Good one. He looks like a character fights for team with our without armband and we need more like that.
I think we signed two good character in Maguire and Bruno which is a bonus as these kind of players can excel under any manager.

I really liked the way Maguire mentioned in post match interview that Bruno is a leader in the dressing room (It takes some guts to accept that being himself as a captain) but I didnt see any inferiority complex in Maguire and praising Bruno's leadership qualities is a good sign.

When I see people like Pogba and Riola, I want UTD to succeed more in coming years than ever to prove our club is bigger than any individuals and also it gives some happiness to Charlton/SAF in their last years.

 

[sp_107]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Bailly is equally as comfotbale on the ball as Lindelöf and definitely more physical and quicker off the mark. I'd like to see him and Maguire get a run of games together to see if we have something there.

Maguire with more physical partner along side could be a much better combo than Magure and Lindelof I feel.That might be reason we have been linked to Koulibaly these days. What you guys think about Maguire and Smalling combo ?

 

[TRUERED89]

Maguire with more physical partner along side could be a much better combo than Magure and Lindelof I feel.That might be reason we have been linked to Koulibaly these days. What you guys think about Maguire and Smalling combo ?

Smalling is a good defender but awful on the ball as we all know, I'd like to see Bailly given a chance now after last nights solid performance. Started off shaky but really grew into the game and was showing real front foot defending. I like how he came rushing out to cover for our midfielders if there was a man unmarked about to receive the ball, and he just took it straight off them every time.

 

[Can7onA]

My Man Utd teams I remember being a kid were always good footballing sides but if you wanted a tear up they were more than happy to oblige.

We've lacked that for years and have become cowardly in most games, McTom is the main one recently that started to get a bit feisty, Willams always looks up for a scrap as well!

Long may it continue.

 

[Buster15]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Bailly is equally as comfotbale on the ball as Lindelöf and definitely more physical and quicker off the mark. I'd like to see him and Maguire get a run of games together to see if we have something there.

Completely agree.
As long as he uses his head more and cuts out some of his silly mistakes.
Definitely capable of being a good player.

 

[Raees]

I feel this is something worth mentioning and tracking.

Between Wan Bissaka, Fred, Williams, Maguire (ignore the crotch stamp) and McTominay with Bailly hopefully on the fringes, there is a core of players who like getting stuck in, make some tackles and not afraid to leave a mark. Slowly but surely there is a nascent nastiness emerging, especially in defence and midfield on which foundations can be built for a team.

Apt username and a very good point.

 

[SER19]

Good point it's another weakness that is clearly being addressed. I'll never forget the CL semi away at arsenal in 09 and knowing seeing them in the tunnel that we were going to win. Really talented players but also very physical compared to arsenal.

 

[bdecuc]

It wasnt too long ago that our team stood by and watched Noble carrying Herrera off of the pitch. That Fred moment was great

Absolutely right. I still think back on that. Such feebleness from the whole team back then. Fred's reaction was good to see. With McTominay, Williams, even Maguire and maybe Wan Bissaka and Bailly there's more fight in this team. I don't think Rashford wilts either.

 

[Raw]

Getting that nastiness back is much needed. Teams will not only be frustrated playing against these sorts of players, but also they'll start to fear them over time.

It's something I praise Ole for, bringing in players who fight for the badge. No longer are we watching the likes of Di Maria, Schneiderlin and Darmian either not give a shit or meekly let the game pass them by.

 

[Dr Fink]

Good to see a lot of the lads getting stuck in last night. Wiliams does it every game , love his attitude - he'll kick anyone, irrespective of who they are. Fred stickin up for Martial. AWB getting stuck in with Azplicueta. Fred - I've changed my opinion; he's changed it for me; after being a lightweight who couldn't pass wind, he looks to have adjusted. He won the ball numerous times last night. We are looking to have good options in midfield: McT, Fred, Pog, Bruno, Matic. No need for Lingard or Perreira to be anywhere near the midfield. Again, ask me again however in 3 games' time..........we need to do it consistently agaisnt high calibre and bang average teams (like the next two games). No more false dawns, please.

 

[12oskell]

Actually watching last night I was disappointed we weren't 'nasty' enough. I think a part of our problems on the field come down to being easily bullied and physically out matched (hence poor performances against lower level teams who tend to be more physical). I was so annoyed that Fred was the only one sticking up for Anthony while he was on the floor getting abuse from at least 4 Chelsea players. Strong teams don't let the opposition push around and abuse your team mates. You stand together and look out for each other, which is why I was disappointed with that exchange. Good on Fred though. (Rudiger & Azpilicueta such punchable faces).

 

[Lee565]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Bailly is equally as comfortable on the ball as Lindelöf and definitely more physical and quicker off the mark. I'd like to see him and Maguire get a run of games together to see if we have something there.

I get the vibe Solskjear does rate bailly but hasnt been able to play him hardly that much due to lengthy spells out injured, its maybe another reason why smalling left as Solskjear may have told him he was even behind a fit bailly in the pecking order.

 

[bond19821982]

We could use some height for sure

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Erm... haven't we been there with Mourinho's teams!?

Zlatan
Pogba
Bailly
Fellaini
Fred
McTom

He wanted Maguire

This is nothing new for us. In fact, you could argue that it's actually been a staple of our post Fergie decline - the inability to coach fast, technical footy, so the reliance on physicality and moments of luck and / or individual brilliance.

Yesterday's game was essentially that in a nut shell, only difference is it went well.

Within a few games we'll be bemoaning the flipside of it...!

 

[matherto]

The bare minimum I wanted from this team was that they actually cared because towards the end of Mourinho's reign and at the end of last season they looked like they didn't.

Showing off the physicality, getting stuck in, stamping authority in duels and on the game itself is all part of showing to us fans that the players actually care and Ole can motivate them to do it.

It's pleasing at the minute.

I'm hoping Bruno becomes an absolute pest as well. Pereira's one good quality is that he's a shithouse and we've had players in the past (RVP, RVN for two) that have that arrogance and shithousery about them. Liverpool for instance of two-three years ago were a great footballing side but they didn't have the shithousery in their game to make that last leap, now they do.

We lost Herrera who opposition fans hated for being a prick. We need more players of that ilk. Williams is a breath of fresh air compared to Shaw in part because you know he'd push you down a flight of stairs before letting you get the better of him.

 

[TRUERED89]

The bare minimum I wanted from this team was that they actually cared because towards the end of Mourinho's reign and at the end of last season they looked like they didn't.

Showing off the physicality, getting stuck in, stamping authority in duels and on the game itself is all part of showing to us fans that the players actually care and Ole can motivate them to do it.

It's pleasing at the minute.

I'm hoping Bruno becomes an absolute pest as well. Pereira's one good quality is that he's a shithouse and we've had players in the past (RVP, RVN for two) that have that arrogance and shithousery about them. Liverpool for instance of two-three years ago were a great footballing side but they didn't have the shithousery in their game to make that last leap, now they do.

We lost Herrera who opposition fans hated for being a prick. We need more players of that ilk. Williams is a breath of fresh air compared to Shaw in part because you know he'd push you down a flight of stairs before letting you get the better of him.

I agree with all this, but surely RVN & RVP aren't the best examples when it comes to shithousery? They hardly got involved in scraps often did they? Only one I remember from RVN was with Keown and co at OT (pizza gate). RVP? Maybe once when Swansea CB tried break his neck by kicking the ball at him point blank range!

Cantona, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Ince, Pete, Rooney, Tevez, Butt, even Scholes (with his deliberate ill timed tackles ) Now they were shithousery architects.

 

[luke511]

Our team looks a lot stronger when we haven't got the likes of Lindelof and Mata getting bullied from all angles.

 

[matherto]

I agree with all this, but surely RVN & RVP aren't the best examples when it comes to shithousery? They hardly got involved in scraps often did they? Only one I remember from RVN was with Keown and co at OT (pizza gate). RVP? Maybe once when Swansea CB tried break his neck by kicking the ball at him point blank range!

Cantona, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Ince, Pete, Rooney, Tevez, even Scholes (with his deliberate ill timed tackles ) Now they were shithousery architects.

RVP and RVN were masters of being snide and doing little things to waste time or throw off defenders/other opponents, that's why I suggested them.

The ones you mentioned are more obvious shithouses but the point stands for all of our examples, we've had plenty in the past to help us and we need them now so we're not so passive and opponents think twice about going for us. The last seven years have been open season on United (especially at Old Trafford), it's time to fight back.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Erm... haven't we been there with Mourinho's teams!?

Zlatan
Pogba
Bailly
Fellaini
Fred
McTom

He wanted Maguire

This is nothing new for us. In fact, you could argue that it's actually been a staple of our post Fergie decline - the inability to coach fast, technical footy, so the reliance on physicality and moments of luck and / or individual brilliance.

Yesterday's game was essentially that in a nut shell, only difference is it went well.

Within a few games we'll be bemoaning the flipside of it...!

That would make sense if Jose actually prioritized pressing and winning the ball as a tactic. Also shit houses like fellaini couldn't tackle without fouling.

 

[Infra-red]

Maguire with more physical partner along side could be a much better combo than Magure and Lindelof I feel.That might be reason we have been linked to Koulibaly these days. What you guys think about Maguire and Smalling combo ?

Next to Maguire you definitely want someone quick, aggressive and good in 1v1s. Bailly is a decent option, if fit, but we should probably be considering higher quality players like Tah, Konate and Upamecano (the latter of which has a reasonably priced release clause).

 

[flappyjay]

This is why I don't want Ole to leave before the summer window. I want him to play a part in the recruitment if indeed he did play a part in our current recruitment strategy

 

[Globule]

Erm... haven't we been there with Mourinho's teams!?

Zlatan
Pogba
Bailly
Fellaini
Fred
McTom

He wanted Maguire

This is nothing new for us. In fact, you could argue that it's actually been a staple of our post Fergie decline - the inability to coach fast, technical footy, so the reliance on physicality and moments of luck and / or individual brilliance.

Yesterday's game was essentially that in a nut shell, only difference is it went well.

Within a few games we'll be bemoaning the flipside of it...!

It's not necessarily the physicality that's seemingly being instilled that's the biggest positive. It's the backbone and unity that previous teams lacked.

This team has plenty of flaws and there are huge question marks over our manager, but Ole does seem to recognise that character is an important quality in a team.

 

[Lj82]

When you look at our best teams 99 + 08 eras every player was essentially hard. Even Ronaldo the "show pony" was 6'2 and got stuck in.

There is a definite strength and togetherness in the team. You saw it last night with Fred's yellow card. He was protecting his team mate and willing to fight for him. We haven't seen that in years.

Good shout regarding Ronaldo. He has a toughness about him that gets overlooked. He doesn't get intimidated. Dennis wise tried to intimidate him early in the game in the FA cup final in Ronaldo's first season and that only made him more determined. Ended up with a MOM performance. He was also the only guy along with Giggsy who confronted the Arsenal players when they monkey jumped around Ruud. We need players who are willing to do that for their teammates in the team. Fred seems to be such a character.