The Euro Draft - QF - Team EAP vs Raees

[Balu]

All players shall be judged only on their performances at the tournaments (From 1927 to 1960 the CEICs, from 1960 to 2012 the Euros). Please take this into account before voting. You can read up on the theme by clicking here.
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Team EAP​

Formation:

A solid & flexible 4-3-3

Defensive Line:

Nothing much needs to be said for the D-line. All known names who have the reputations of being one of the best at their roles. Every one of them stalwart defenders who are comfortable on the ball too.

Midfield:

Defence support from the midfield:

- Deschamps was a dedicated DM, well known for his high work-rate, tenacity, stamina, and his efficacy at pressing and tackling opponents. Tactically intelligent, his brilliant positional and organisational sense helped him in excelling at impeding the opposition's attacking movements.
- Masopust's usual position was a left half (close to a defensive central midfielder in modern formations)
- Schweinsteiger was the established DM for the German side in Euro 2012.

Workrate:

VERY HIGH. All 3 of my midfielder's are known for their high work-rate. They will be perfect in recovering the ball and shuttling between the boxes all game.

Creativity/Play-making from the midfield:

- Deschamps was a good passer of the ball and was perfectly capable of starting up attacking plays once he won back possession.
- Masopust's was renowned for his box-to-box ability to support attack with his slalom runs. He Possessed exemplary ball control, his transmission with ball on foot through the field was clinical, which he utilized for both; basic work, from the recovery of the ball in defense, to driving menacingly through the opposition in what was termed 'Masopust's slalom'. During these solo runs Masopust would seamlessly switch between both feet, easily jinking to the left and right but always moving forward.
- Schweinsteiger, called as "the brain" of the German national team by his coach Joachim Löw. One of the best midfielders in the world he possesses a fearsome shot from range as well as a wicked delivery from set-pieces and has a knack of scoring spectacular goals due to his good positioning. The "midfield mastermind" is someone who you can trust to run the game from the middle.

Attack:

It's a highly flexible, versatile and lethal front 3. Nothing much needs to be said of Puskas and Gullit. Kluivert was in red hot form in Euros and scored in nearly every match played. He will act as the traditional Centre Forward scoring himself as well as being able to hold up the ball and bring Puskas/Gullit into scoring.

EURO Form Guide:

1. Breitner

1972 TotT​

2. Sol Campbell

2004 TotT​

3. Laurent Blanc

1992, 1996, 2000 TotT​

4. Durkovic

1960 TotT​

5. Masopust

1960 ToTT​

6. Schweinsteiger

"I have been really impressed by the Germany captain so far in Euro 2012 and he is the kind of midfield player that I really like. He can do everything. He tackles, defends, is powerful when going forward, has a good shot and is also good on the ball." - Patrick Vieira​

7. Deschamps

1996 TotT​

8. Puskás

1948/53 CEIC Top Scorer (10 goals)​

9. Gullit

1988, 1992 TotT​

10. Kluivert

2000 TotT & Golden Boot​

Substitutes:

11. Sneijder

2008 TotT | Man of the Match: vs. Italy, vs. France | Best Goal of the Tournament: vs France​

12. Pepe

2008, 2012 TotT​

13. Hierro

vs

 

[Balu]

Team Raees​

SUMMARY

My team will line up in a fluid 3-4-1-2. The first thing to note is that this formation brings out the multifaceted attributes we possess in this side. It allows us to demonstrate the sheer versatility and athleticism of our side.. it is very much a total footballing side with all time legends who could easily defend and attack in equal measure.. Zebec, Beckenbauer, Rijkaard. The formation allows us to defend in great numbers yet in an instant allow us transition into attack in great numbers with threat out wide and through the centre.

THE DEFENCE

My man between the sticks is "The ballet dancer with the hands of steel" 'Big' Vladimir Beara. Lev Yashin and Ricardo Zamora ...probably two of the biggest goalkeeping legends of all time considered him the greatest they had ever seen. Upon his death, the British press and Jonathan Wilson in particular penned articles on his passing.. which for a Eastern European keeper speaks volumes about his status within the game. Extremely agile, a great shot stopper, ferociously brave when coming for crosses.. he even saved a penalty against Puskas during a game v the Mighty Magyars. Widely regarded by his Central European International Cup peers as one of, if not the, greatest ever.

In the heart of defence is the greatest man marker of the draft Jurgen Kohler, aged 26 and coming off the back of an exceptional season with Juventus, was at his absolute peak in Euro 1992. Marshalled Germany to the final in '92, and also has a strong Euro '88 to his name at just 22. He will dovetail delightfully with the pacy and left-sided Branko Zebec a superhuman footballer. He was considered to be world class in 4 separate positions, Sweeper/Left Back, Left Midfield and Striker. Blessed with pace (he could run 100m in less than 11s in football boots), agility, aerial ability and a wonderful ability to read the game - there is no wonder that he is often included in the greatest of the 50-60's era teams and rated the best centre half of that era.

On the right is Manuel Amoros, the captain of France's Euro 1992 side. At his peak he was reknowned as the arguably the best full back of the 86 world cup but nevertheless in 92 Amoros was one of the few French players who came out of that tournament with their reputation upheld, and featured in exactly the same system we have now. On the left is the legendary Giacinto Facchetti arguably the greatest left back at all time and in peak form, he lifted the Euro 1968 trophy as captain to add to his multiple European cups. A man mountain of a defender who was like Maldini in defence but like nothing else we have ever seen going forwards, he was a genuine threat... a playmaker/goalscorer from left back and that is why he trumps Paulo for me especially in European Championship football.

THE LIBERO

Facchetti was said to have been the inspiration for our captain and leader Franz Beckenbauer. Leading Germany to the 1972 Euro title and a penalty shoot out defeat in 1976 - winning the Ballon d'or in both years, he is without doubt undisputed greatest defensive player of all time and at his peak here. He will play as a sweeper in this set up and be free to dominate the game in both defence and attack.

THE MIDFIELD

In midfield we have a brilliant trio of footballers. Firstly we have arguably the best defensive/centre midfielder in the draft in Frank Rijkaard. He will dominate the centre of the park, reprising the role he excelled in during 1992. Tactically perfect, he spent both Euro 1988 and Euro 1992 (and the rest of his career) switching position as the needs of the game demanded. As well as running midfield, Rijkaard offers significant threat at set-pieces as demonstrated by the inch-perfect header against Germany and a one-step-ahead-of-everyone-else headed assist for Bergkamp to grab the winner against Scotland in 1992. The thought of him and Beckenbauer patrolling the midfield/defence, switching positions is unbelievable.

Partnering Rijkaard in the heart of the midfield is the danish dynamo and Bayern legend Soren Lerby - in Gazzetto dello Sport's team of the tournament for Euro '84, a proper all-round midfielder, mixture of steel and class who fits like a glove here. He will ensure we have the edge in what is sure to be an intense midfield battle.

Ahead of them will be 1960 Ballon D'or winner 'El Arquitecto' Luisito Suarez - FC Internazionale Milano inside-forward Suárez was theundisputed man of the match in the 1964 UEFA European Championship final against the USSR. He controlled the game in the stylish, swaggering manner of a player full of confidence after inspiring Inter to a 3-1 victory against Real Madrid CF in the European Champion Clubs' Cup final a few weeks earlier. A mixture of Iniesta and Platini, he is the ideal player you would want in the number 10/Attacking midfield role here.

THE ATTACK

Up front we have the sensational duo of Henry and Ibrahimovic. Thierry Henry was at his absolute best in Euro 2000 and tore the three italian defensive gods of Nesta, Maldini and Cannavaro apart. Pace, guile, strength.. some of his hold up play in the final was magnificent. He would drift to the left and tear strips out of the opposition, turning defence into attack in an instant.

Zlatan Ibramhimovic is the perfect partner for Henry (check his relationship with Bergkamp). His Euros CV is exceptional: the joint third highest Euros goalscorer of all-time, including three outstanding goals against Italy in 2004, Greece in 2008 and France in 2012. Beyond the goals he brings unique technical ability, match-winning invention and serious strength to the table.

Flaws in EAP's side

• Lack of a striker who can genuinely hurt us... As good as Kluivert is and his record in Euro 2000 was incredible, tactically I just don't see him as the type of striker our defence would struggle to contain. To be fair to him our defence is arguably one of the best compiled in drafting history and any striker would struggle including Pele but Kluivert isn't the dynamic presence that EAP needs here to truly give us something to think about.

• Deschamps v Suarez... as good as Deschamps was, I feel this is a mismatch in our favour as it would take an absolutely all time great holding mid to keep tabs on Suarez and I don't think Deschamps is in that class. Interesting battle none the less, it won't be easy for Suarez mind, just think he will find/create pockets of space to do damage.

• His defence bar Breitner... I love Sol Campbell and I like Breitner, but when you compare Campbell, Blanc and Durkovic to the defence we have it is a big mismatch in our favour. The lack of pace of Blanc could prove incredibly costly and it will impact upon EAP's desire to take the game to us. Henry and Ibra will definitely prove too much of a handful for that side and Mr I am Sol Campbell will be left at sea by the guys around him in my opinion.

Why we will win

• We have tailored our tactics to counter EAP's strengths and exploit his weaknesses. We have shifted from a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond to a classic 3-5-2. It is all about cancelling EAP out through the middle, then feeding our talented wing-backs to exploit his lack of cover on the flanks. Simple yet effective.
  
  Zebec goes onto Gullit as he has exceptional physical qualities that match up well to Ruud - great in the air, plenty of pace, and a natural fit (centre-half-cum-left-back) for the Gullit inside-right role. Facchetti comes in and can pick up Gullit as and when required. Facchetti's exceptional physical qualities will be tremendously useful in negating Gullit's strengths.
  
  Kohler will be tasked to man-mark Puskas. It will be a fascinating battle - the greatest man-marker of all time against one of the greatest goalscorers. If Puskas drops into midfield, Rijkaard picks him up. If he goes wide, Amoros tucks in. And backing them all up is Franz fecking Beckenbauer.

• In midfield Soren Lerby and Frank Rijkaard to form a powerful yet technically and tactically brilliant platform. They will physically match up to Masopust and Schweinstreiger and ultimately it will be Rijkaard who runs the show. The impeccable Luis Suarez whose Euro CV is so impressive will fit like a glove into this set-up and feed through balls for the onrushing Thierry Henry to exploit. And exploit he will as he reprises his Euro 2000 role and outstrips Durkovic down the right or cuts inside and leaves Blanc for dead.

----------------------------------------------------

Good luck
@Edgar Allan Pillow
@MJJ
@coolredwine
@Raees
@Gio

 

[Balu]

@Rado_N @Damien , could one of you please add the poll to the thread? Thanks a lot.

Question:
Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

- Team EAP
- Team Raees

Poll for 24hrs. Public Poll. View results without voting. Can change votes.

 

[Rado_N]

@Rado_N @Damien , could one of you please add the poll to the thread? Thanks a lot.

Question:
Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

- Team EAP
- Team Raees

Poll for 24hrs. Public Poll. View results without voting. Can change votes.

No draw option?

 

[Balu]

No draw option?

Nope, not anymore for this draft. But thanks for checking if I forgot it .

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Good luck @Raees @Gio!

 

[Raees]

Good luck @Raees @Gio!

Good luck Team EAP!

@Edgar Allan Pillow
@MJJ
@coolredwine

 

[Rado_N]

Nope, not anymore for this draft. But thanks for checking if I forgot it .

No worries; done.

I usually do this on my phone - it actually took longer on the laptop

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

As you wanted,we are in the match thread now. Can you give links on Zebec playing CB in Euro's?

Also Rijkaard, thought it was pointed out last match that this role was not even close to what he actually played in Euro's. Still persisting with this?

 

[Raees]

On Zebec, he played CB against Austria in 1958 in the CEI Cup. And then against France in the 1960 semi-final. Number 5, that was the central position in Yugoslavia's back three.

#201, Beograd, Stadion J.N.A., Sep 15, F, A: 50,000, R: Orlandini (Ita)
Yugoslavia - Austria 3-3 (2-2)
YUG: Slavko Stojanovic (Par) 7, Bruno Belin (Par) 17, Tomislav Crnkovic
(Dzg) 33, Dobrosav Krstic (Voj) 17, Branko Zebec (Par) 43, Vujadin Boskov
(Voj) 48, Zdravko Rajkov (Voj) 23, Milos Milutinovic (Par) 26, Milan
Vukelic (Voj) 1, Muhamed Mujic (Vel) 8, Ilijas Pasic (Zel) 3 - Coach
Aleksandar Tirnanic 64
AUT: Schmied, E. Kozlicek, Happel, Swoboda, Hanappi, Koller, Halla, Dienst,
Buzek, A.Körner, Haummer
Scorers: 1-0 Zdravko Rajkov 9th (15'), 2-0 Koller (20'og), 2-1 Happel
(32'pen), 2-2 Dienst (45'), 2-3 Dienst (62'), 3-3 Milos Milutinovic 13th
(70')

As for Rijkaard, we have already through numerous posts highlighted his role in Euro 92 in a 3-3-3-1, where he played as a midfielder/centre back.. he was very box to box in that role and there is footage from the Euro 92 game v Germany which demonstrates it perfectly.

Furthermore we have incorporated for that flexibility in his role by having Becknebauer in the side which will allow them both to switch it up and change positions when they see fit.. i.e. if Beckenbauer marauds forward, Rijkaard can shuffle back into defence.

It is a very Germany 1972 style side.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Let me read on Zebec, but Rijkaard makes shambles of draft spirit imo. He had a defensively role in Euro's as you mention, but you are using him in a role that has little defensive about it. A DM dropping into back 3 vs a attacking CM with back 5 behind him are not even comparable.

 

[Raees]

Let me read on Zebec, but Rijkaard makes shambles of draft spirit imo. He had a defensively role in Euro's as you mention, but you are using him in a role that has little defensive about it. A DM dropping into back 3 vs a attacking CM with back 5 behind him are not even comparable.

That is utter bull, if he has played in the midfield three of a 3-3-3-1, in what sense is that abusing draft spirit. Why don't you actually watch Holland's games from Euro 1992?

If you had confidence in your side to win this you wouldn't need to resort to such tactics, the proof is there.. Koeman was the guy at the back in Euro 92, it is plain as day to see.


See 3.29 for example, Rijkaard hits a lofted pass into the box from a clear central midfield position, no centre back would be found in that position and just to highlight that further.. compare Koemans position from that very same move.

 

[harms]

@Raees looks just ridiculous on paper.

Especially Facchetti + Henry vs Durkovic + Campbell, the latter had a great Euro's, but Henry is the type of player that he is stylistically uncomfortable to him.

Not sure if Rijkaard and Beckenbauer is a good fit together.

Leaning towards Raees so far, but I'll wait for the actual discussion.

 

[Raees]

Spoiler: Antohan ALL TIME DRAFT WINNERS

That is antohans all time fantasy draft winning final side.. I'd say they can definitely work together and if anything we're reflecting their positions a little better in this set up. To be fair we are not too far off that team and it is only quarter final stage with a more restricted pool.

 

[Balu]

Let me read on Zebec, but Rijkaard makes shambles of draft spirit imo. He had a defensively role in Euro's as you mention, but you are using him in a role that has little defensive about it. A DM dropping into back 3 vs a attacking CM with back 5 behind him are not even comparable.

That is utter bull, if he has played in the midfield three of a 3-3-3-1, in what sense is that abusing draft spirit. Why don't you actually watch Holland's games from Euro 1992?

I have less of a problem with Rijkaard here than I had with him as a wide midfielder in a diamond. I think in the last game it really was a bit controversial. This one is pretty similar to Rijkaard's role in '92 though.

 

[harms]

Spoiler: Antohan ALL TIME DRAFT WINNERS

That is antohans all time fantasy draft winning final side.. I'd say they can definitely work together and if anything we're reflecting their positions a little better in this set up. To be fair we are not too far off that team and it is only quarter final stage with a more restricted pool.

It was a different Beckenbauer if I'm not mistaken, a younger one?
Nevertheless, it's not a major point, just a thought out loud.

 

[MJJ]

On Zebec, he played CB against Austria in 1958 in the CEI Cup. And then against France in the 1960 semi-final. Number 5, that was the central position in Yugoslavia's back three.

#201, Beograd, Stadion J.N.A., Sep 15, F, A: 50,000, R: Orlandini (Ita)
Yugoslavia - Austria 3-3 (2-2)
YUG: Slavko Stojanovic (Par) 7, Bruno Belin (Par) 17, Tomislav Crnkovic
(Dzg) 33, Dobrosav Krstic (Voj) 17, Branko Zebec (Par) 43, Vujadin Boskov
(Voj) 48, Zdravko Rajkov (Voj) 23, Milos Milutinovic (Par) 26, Milan
Vukelic (Voj) 1, Muhamed Mujic (Vel) 8, Ilijas Pasic (Zel) 3 - Coach
Aleksandar Tirnanic 64
AUT: Schmied, E. Kozlicek, Happel, Swoboda, Hanappi, Koller, Halla, Dienst,
Buzek, A.Körner, Haummer
Scorers: 1-0 Zdravko Rajkov 9th (15'), 2-0 Koller (20'og), 2-1 Happel
(32'pen), 2-2 Dienst (45'), 2-3 Dienst (62'), 3-3 Milos Milutinovic 13th
(70')

As for Rijkaard, we have already through numerous posts highlighted his role in Euro 92 in a 3-3-3-1, where he played as a midfielder/centre back.. he was very box to box in that role and there is footage from the Euro 92 game v Germany which demonstrates it perfectly.

Furthermore we have incorporated for that flexibility in his role by having Becknebauer in the side which will allow them both to switch it up and change positions when they see fit.. i.e. if Beckenbauer marauds forward, Rijkaard can shuffle back into defence.

It is a very Germany 1972 style side.

Even if zebec played as a CB in those matches, yugoslavia conceded 3 and 4 goals respectively in both of them. Am not sure how you can call him a world-class defender based on that performances. If he played those two matches, he had an awful tournament and is the worse defender on the pitch.

Also, if kohler is man-marking puskas and zebec is pushing up to deal with gullit, wont that leave kluivert alone with beckenbauer as the deepest defender and the most forward striker? I can see loads of goal-scoring opportunities with such a disjointed defensive line.

And what happens when beckenbauer pushes up, who is marking kluivert then?

 

[Balu]

@Raees do you have to play Zebec? Who are your subs? I don't really understand why you need him in the team. That backline with Rijkaard and Lerby protecting it would be already a brick wall withouth him. I'd actually say he complicates things more in regards to the roles of the players than he helps.

 

[berbasloth4]

Firstly I like the set up in both sides..

The balance is wonderful.. If I am to base this on Euro performances..

I love the look of masopust with deschamps, I however think Schweinsteiger will be a little out of his depth.. I feel Guillt will have to come a bit to deep to get the ball and make things happen (even if its bringing the full backs into play).. If the service is correct Kluivert will gobble them up he is lethal and Puskas is puskas..

I dislike the henry and ibrahimovic partnership, nothing like the henry bergkamp duo.. Ibrahimovic is extremely selfish and lazy. Bergkamp loved to assist goals as much as scoring them Ibrahimovic wants the headlines himself which will tamper with henrys performances.. I do think if it came to a midfield battle you would win with beckenbauer stepping up and the warrior rijkaard in there also..

Facchetti and Amoros have license to get forward at every opportunity as there is no one to push them back and there is enough cover..

I am leaning towards Raees but want to read more..

 

[MJJ]

also, reading up on zebec he was more of a halfback in a W-M than a fullback. That would mean he played either as a defensive mid or a left mid(modern positions), rather than the deepest line of defense.

 

[MJJ]

Firstly I like the set up in both sides..

The balance is wonderful.. If I am to base this on Euro performances..

I love the look of masopust with deschamps, I however think Schweinsteiger will be a little out of his depth.. I feel Guillt will have to come a bit to deep to get the ball and make things happen (even if its bringing the full backs into play).. If the service is correct Kluivert will gobble them up he is lethal and Puskas is puskas..

I dislike the henry and ibrahimovic partnership, nothing like the henry bergkamp duo.. Ibrahimovic is extremely selfish and lazy. Bergkamp loved to assist goals as much as scoring them Ibrahimovic wants the headlines himself which will tamper with henrys performances.. I do think if it came to a midfield battle you would win with beckenbauer stepping up and the warrior rijkaard in there also..

Facchetti and Amoros have license to get forward at every opportunity as there is no one to push them back and there is enough cover..

I am leaning towards Raees but want to read more..

I actually disagree there, if his fullbacks are very adventurous and beckenbauer pushes up he will be very exposed to counter attacks since kohler is man-marking gullit which just leaves zebec who is tracking puskas! A deep run from midfield or puskas going past zebec(very possible given his lack of defensive skills based on euro performance) leads to a goal-scoring opportunity.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I have less of a problem with Rijkaard here than I had with him as a wide midfielder in a diamond. I think in the last game it really was a bit controversial. This one is pretty similar to Rijkaard's role in '92 though.

Rijkaard was the best centre back Holland had - their others weren't great individually(Koeman not great in the air) hence he was needed defensively as well and could shine in that role too. Here he is really redundant, Kohler-Zebec is already world class and Rijkaard won't be dropping down to cover their weaknesses. Then they already have Beckenbauer doing the job of moving up in to midfield and down to the defense when he want.

Milan had a great defense already and Rijkaard wasn't a libero there dropping down in to the defense to form a back five or six here and there simply because it means limited return.

Remove one of Zebec/Kohler and it starts looking more realistic, otherwise Rijkaard will just be a regular CM here. Every CM will drop in to the box once in a while in a game, especially if the player is exceptional in the air. For me it is quite clearly not the exact role that Rijkaard thrived in for Holland but not the end of the world either as he did showcase what he could do as a CM still.

I get where EAP is coming from though, in this case anybody could have picked Beckenbauer/Rijkaard for the midfield positions and claim that during the game they'd drop in to the box when needed.

All that said I think Raees is looking stronger. Henry is great at moving out left and has so much flair in that role - while Ibrahimovic really excelled at bullying his way to the ball out wide and was at his all time best at this role in this tournament and period(Milan's 4-4-1-1). Henry scored 3 in 5 at the '00 - Ibrahimovic scored 2 in 3 and was directly involved with 1 goal per game. Excellent wing backs as well.

I will vote later though after discussion as I may change my mind.

 

[berbasloth4]

I actually disagree there, if his fullbacks are very adventurous and beckenbauer pushes up he will be very exposed to counter attacks since kohler is man-marking gullit which just leaves zebec who is tracking puskas! A deep run from midfield or puskas going past zebec(very possible given his lack of defensive skills based on euro performance) leads to a goal-scoring opportunity.

Rijkaard didnt tend to get too far forward so it is easy for him just to drop in if needs be.. Gullit as well will have to drop with beckhenbauer. I just think there is enough cover for majority of attacks..

 

[Moby]

also, reading up on zebec he was more of a halfback in a W-M than a fullback. That would mean he played either as a defensive mid or a left mid(modern positions), rather than the deepest line of defense.

Yes I personally prefer to see him as a defensive midfielder but there's nothing to suggest there was any chink in his armor defensively. Your concern would have more weight if he was in a back 4, not that I think he's a weakness there either but still. But here he's in a back 5 with two top central defenders alongside him. He can easily push up in midfield which acc to their tactics he will when he tracks Gullit, and Beckenbauer and Kohler can stay back and still make a world class CB duo.

In fact his role of tracking Gullit suits him perfectly, he doesn't have to stay in defense the whole time. It's a fascinating battle, two of the most versatile players to play the game battling it out. Who will win that is up for us to decide but in terms of playing style there's nothing wrong with Zebec there.

Factoring in the Euro performances Zebec should have a tough time dealing with Gullit, and that's one route to goal for you for sure.

 

[Raees]

@Balu .. can we get the OP amended.

 

[Moby]

Swapping Hanappi in for Zebec.

Not sure I agree with this. You had a rare talent that could deal with Gullit physically, technically and follow him everywhere. He may have lost that battle but Gullit wouldn't have liked having someone match him to that extent everywhere. He's a lot more free now, and he has that bad habit of manipulating the opposition into doing what he wants them to do..

On the other hand it does give Rijkaard a lot more familiar role, so it's not all bad. I was just excited to discuss more about that battle.

 

[harms]

Votes for Raees so far: berbatrick, berbasloth4. I typed "berba" after @ and saw a lot of potential voters here

Not sure if I like the change.

 

[Raees]

hold the change.. Gio isn't happy.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I'm not too knowledgeable about Zebec's Euro credentials, but as a defender, in general (the way he played for his country in the WC and at club level too), he certainly doesn't look out of place/position here. He was extremely versatile (could – and did – play virtually all over the pitch), but when he was employed as a defender, he operated as a fullback nominally (not a centre half), to the left. With Beckenbauer in a libero role here, that seems kosher as can be.

Zebec was a bloody good defender – in the “pure” sense too, his extreme speed and aerial ability (he was pretty tall too, AFAIK) combined with his game reading ability made sure of that. So, in conclusion – he could easily be used as what we'd call a CB today (rather than a libero or a DM, if you will).

But, again, his actual performances in relevant Euro matches – well, that is an entirely different matter.

 

[Gio]

Let me read on Zebec, but Rijkaard makes shambles of draft spirit imo. He had a defensively role in Euro's as you mention, but you are using him in a role that has little defensive about it. A DM dropping into back 3 vs a attacking CM with back 5 behind him are not even comparable.

What makes a shambles of the draft spirit is that sort of baseless accusation. At Euro 88, Rijkaard and Koeman were the central defensive partnership. At Euro 92, Rijkaard played in the three midfielders in Rinus Michels' 3-3-3-1. In both tournaments he spent time moving back and forward as the situation desired. For instance towards the end of the Germany group stage game in 1992, he went back to defence to deal with the German aerial bombardment, which proved an inspired move. Michels' 1992 set-up is very similar to his role.

Every single player in our team mirrors their Euro role. Facchetti is bursting down the left, reprising his left wing-back role from 1968. Kohler as a man-marking CB in a back three. Beckenbauer taking on his sweeper role from 1972 and 1976. Zebec taking on the LCB role which he had during the second half of his international career. Manuel Amoros as right wing-back as he did for France in their 3-5-2 in 1992. Lerby in the central defensive left-sided role he excelled in for Denmark. Gerhard Hanappi bursting out from his wing-half role. Luis Suarez floating behind the front strikers. Thierry Henry peeling off to the left. Ibra leading the line. It's all exactly how they played and excelled in the European Championships.

 

[antohan]

Two fabulous teams. This draft will be veery very hard to settle as we progress because they all look like superteams.

I really like both setups and how they match each other, so it will go down to minor quibbles I suppose:

Out of position players: Rijkaard didn't play that role at the Euros, Zebec maybe didn't either, but it's not as outlandish as positioning Suárez as DLP would have been (yes, he did it at Inter but was nowhere near even close to the role he had for Spain). I just take it as a "normal/unproven" and not the beasts they proved to be over their careers. A bit like Schweinsteiger, whose performances weren't at his highest standards.

Strange tactical decisions: I suppose EAP was anticipating a criticism of Blanc's pace vs. Henry (which duly came). Firstly, he wasn't as glacial as he was for us. Christ, the man started out as a RB! I'm not convinced he had to swap him and Campbell like that, not at all. Blanc is just about the best defender on the pitch (yes, purely as a defender and Euro performances) so I don't get why he is getting shifted around like a spare part. He is better suited for the Henry job while Campbell is better used against Ibra.

Poorer Euros: However much I like Amoros, his greatest claim to fame at the Euros was getting himself sent off.

Goalkeeping: I do rate Beara higher than this Shrojf fella. I mean, you never hear about this keepers from ages past, they didn't score goals or win tournos singlehandedly so most of them you need to research. But then there are those who were formidable enough to be known anyway, like Yashin, like Zamora, and Beara is definitely in that company. Shrojf wasn't very good in the only game I've seen of him. I didn't know him as Shrojf but "that hapless Czech bloke". It wasn't at the Euros though and by all means the Czechs were excellent there.

EAPs attack is tastier and has more goals than Raees/Gio's. He also has the best midfielder on the pitch in Masopust and, as said, the best Euro defender in Blanc (but it seems to me he made a meal of that). What makes Beckenbauer head and shoulders the better player is his work as a libero pushing up and transitioning from defence to attack, but Gullit is just about the best man to have putting pressure on him in that space. Raees/Gio have an inferior team in terms of individual quality/Euro performances, but it look solid throughout and well put together in a way that makes up for it a fair bit.

Difficult, I thought it was going to be a case of voting for "the better attack despite a great defence" but it will probably go down to the minor quibbles.

 

[antohan]

Furthermore we have incorporated for that flexibility in his role by having Becknebauer in the side which will allow them both to switch it up and change positions when they see fit.. i.e. if Beckenbauer marauds forward, Rijkaard can shuffle back into defence.

That makes a lot of sense actually. Back to Euro Rijkaard then.

 

[Ish]

The poll name is incorrect!

 

[antohan]

I actually disagree there, if his fullbacks are very adventurous and beckenbauer pushes up he will be very exposed to counter attacks since kohler is man-marking gullit which just leaves zebec who is tracking puskas! A deep run from midfield or puskas going past zebec(very possible given his lack of defensive skills based on euro performance) leads to a goal-scoring opportunity.

It's the other way around.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

At Euro 88, Rijkaard and Koeman were the central defensive partnership. At Euro 92, Rijkaard played in the three midfielders in Rinus Michels' 3-3-3-1. In both tournaments he spent time moving back and forward as the situation desired. For instance towards the end of the Germany group stage game in 1992, he went back to defence to deal with the German aerial bombardment, which proved an inspired move. Michels' 1992 set-up is very similar to his role.

I made my point on this earlier. Whether as a CB or in a 3-3-3-1, he had a major share of defensive duties to do, especially with Koeman there. Here you played him in a role that as next to no defensive duties. Totally a different player, imo.

But then, let's not continue this. Both have made our respective points and let this be and move on.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Raees team looks bloody fantastic, with or without the change.....Rijkaard looks like a midfielder in the clip raees posted and i dont have an issue with his position. Zebec on the other hand didnt have the best tournament and while he maybe was great player, based on Euro form he wasnt all that as his side conceded a lot of goals. I know there is a big possibility he didnt have a bad game/s but we cant know that so we have to use what we can. The same goes for Durkovic on the other side, yes he was in the team of the tournament but so was David Luiz, awards are useful but they dont mean much.

 

[Raees]

I made my point on this earlier. Whether as a CB or in a 3-3-3-1, he had a major share of defensive duties to do, especially with Koeman there. Here you played him in a role that as next to no defensive duties. Totally a different player, imo..

So in a match up where we are against Puskas Gullit and Kluivert, we have given Rijkaard a free roaming midfield role, you are off your rocker here EAP. He is playing as a double pivot, not as bloody Roberto Baggio.

 

[Gio]

I made my point on this earlier. Whether as a CB or in a 3-3-3-1, he had a major share of defensive duties to do, especially with Koeman there. Here you played him in a role that as next to no defensive duties. Totally a different player, imo.

But then, let's not continue this. Both have made our respective points and let this be and move on.

It's distracting bollocks though isn't it, designed to get a few early votes in by questioning the credibility of Rijkaard's role. Watch the games from 1992. I've even got the World Soccer detailed match reports from August 1992 which show him playing that midfield role. He traded in goals and assists in 1992 yet is somehow confined to a purely defensive remit. Never mind, we've stuck him at DMC which should nullify the ability of Puskas and Gullit to drop into that space while offering cover for Beckenbauer going forward to dictate matters.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

hold the change.. Gio isn't happy.

Are you subbing or not? I need to know your formation before I reply to your tactics.

 

[Gio]

@Raees team looks bloody fantastic, with or without the change.....Rijkaard looks like a midfielder in the clip raees posted and i dont have an issue with his position. Zebec on the other hand didnt have the best tournament and while he maybe was great player, based on Euro form he wasnt all that as his side conceded a lot of goals. I know there is a big possibility he didnt have a bad game/s but we cant know that so we have to use what we can. The same goes for Durkovic on the other side, yes he was in the team of the tournament but so was David Luiz, awards are useful but they dont mean much.

Well exactly if Zebec becomes the "worst defender on the pitch" on the basis of Yugoslavia's 5-4 win over France in 1960, then surely Durkovic merits the same treatment.